Default setting for Torpedo pistol selector?

[Uboat-48]

Is it possible to change the default setting for my Torpedo pistol selector?
I'm probably using 90% Impact and maybe 10% Magnetic but my Torpedo pistol selector always defaults to Magnetic when selecting a tube!?
I would like to change it to Impact as default but I don't know if this can be done.

Just to clarify:

- Magnetic is only used for below the boat (below keel detonation), correct?
- Impact is used for side of the boat (fuel, engine, ammo, propulsion), correct?

Any examples where the above rules do not apply?

Thanks so much! :salute:

[frau kaleun]

Is it possible to change the default setting for my Torpedo pistol selector?
I'm probably using 90% Impact and maybe 10% Magnetic but my Torpedo pistol selector always defaults to Magnetic when selecting a tube!?
I would like to change it to Impact as default but I don't know if this can be done.

Just to clarify:

- Magnetic is only used for below the boat (below keel detonation), correct?
- Impact is used for side of the boat (fuel, engine, ammo, propulsion), correct?

Any examples where the above rules do not apply?

Thanks so much! :salute:

Don't know about changing the default game setting, but:

Impact pistols require a direct physical impact as their name implies, and the angle of impact is also a crucial factor. If they run too low in the water you risk them hitting the lower part of the ship where the hull curves inward towards the keel and they can glance off at a downward angle without detonating. Same thing with the angle at which they approach the target, which should be as close to 90 degrees as possible. Ideally, like this:

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It doesn't have to come in perfectly perpendicular to the target, but the farther off from that you get the less likely you are to get a clean impact and the more likely it is that the torpedo will glance off the side of the target without detonating.

Magnetic pistols do not require direct physical impact, they should be set off by the electromagnetic field generated by the target's hull and so only need to pass through it to be detonated (duds notwithstanding). However my understanding is that magnetic pistols can also be set off by a clean impact, or perhaps using one for an "impact" shot also puts it within the necessary E/M field and results in detonation. At any rate I've had magnetics that detonated both on contact and without contact while under the keel.

Some people here swear by magnetics, some people rarely use them and stick to impacts most of the time, some people use both but limit the use of magnetics during certain periods of the war for the sake of historical accuracy.

I have seen it said that in rougher weather magnetics can detonate prematurely before reaching the target, altho I've not had much trouble with this myself. Maybe it's because in really rough seas I don't mind putting one impact shot into a boat and waiting to see if the weather will do the rest of the work for me. But generally speaking, unless there's a very good reason *not* to choose a magnetic pistol, that's my first choice. More bang for the buck IMO.

[Uboat-48]

Thank you so much for the detailed explanation of the two types of pistols.
Much appreciated. :up:

[frau kaleun]

You're very welcome!

Basically knowing which type of pistol you want is just knowing how each one works and what type of shot you are setting up, or what kind is available. One nice thing about the magnetic fuses is they are still an option when it's impossible or very difficult to get in the kind of position necessary for a good clean impact detonation. The angle is not so crucial, since they don't need a physical "hit" to make them work. I usually set them to run 1 meter below the keel, or even a bit higher if the seas are rough enough to make the target pitch up and down. If they run too far below they don't pass through the E/M field and you get nothing but IME even if they are high enough to hit the keel when they actually get to the target it doesn't matter since they're already passing through the E/M field and probably detonating before they actually hit it.

[GoDeep]

I use both magnetic and impact triggers, but I use them depending on the situation.

In bad weather, rough seas, I rarely set the torpedoes to magnetic trigger. I've had enough detonate prematurely that I now avoid it. Except when I'm really close to the target, between 500 and 800 metres, maybe. Then I sometimes run the risk of a premature detonation.

In good weather, I tend to use magnetics a lot, especially when I can't get a good angle on the target. Magnetics work better the longer they spent under the keel, so shooting them at a greater or smaller angle than 90 degrees works well because it takes them more time to travel underneath the target. I almost always set the running depth to a metre below the targets draught. This tends to work very well for me.

So bad weather: impact. Good weather and/or bad angle: magnetic.

[gt_magnus]

However my understanding is that magnetic pistols can also be set off by a clean impact, or perhaps using one for an "impact" shot also puts it within the necessary E/M field and results in detonation. At any rate I've had magnetics that detonated both on contact and without contact while under the keel.
When you set it to magnetic pistols it use both magnetic and impact pistols. When you set it to impact pistols it use just the impact pistols.

[BigRich]

In my experience, I find that one or two magnetic hits can cripple and on rare occasions even sink a battleship. I have also witnessed battleships/battlecruisers sail on after taking up to four contact hits (albeit with a heavy list). With magnetic pistols, a depth setting of one metre under keel depth usually succeeds, in heavy seas I set depth to around two metres under.
When targeting merchant ships, I tend to stick with contact pistols. The greater damage a magnetic hit inflicts outweighs the fact that most merchants don't survive two contact hits anyway.

[soopaman2]

This discussion kind of inspired this question.

Is there a particular situation you should use a differing detonation method? I am distrustful of magnetic because I do alot of my sinking in northish latitudes and am wary to how realistic the magnetic north pole screwing with torpedoes is simulated here.

[1480]

This discussion kind of inspired this question.

Is there a particular situation you should use a differing detonation method? I am distrustful of magnetic because I do alot of my sinking in northish latitudes and am wary to how realistic the magnetic north pole screwing with torpedoes is simulated here.

You will get differing opinions from different Kaleuns. Magnetic pistol always for a down the throat shot at an charging escort. As Frau said above, trying to get as close to a 90-60 degree angle for an Impact pistol. A lesser AOB is where the Magnetic is better suited. Magnetic also comes in when attacking a convoy, ships of lesser importance usually get the outside picket positions, the juicier targets are on the inside. Their draft is usually a bit deeper than the lesser ships, bypassing those in hopes that the eels will bite the bigger targets.

Not sure if the magnetic's are as realistic in the Nord see as in real life. Cannot remember correctly if the cheerful psychopaths otherwise known as the GWX team :rock: messed with it or its hard coded.

[Sailor Steve]

We're much luckier than the real kaleuns were. They didn't have a switch that could give you one or the other. To change the torpedo warhead had to be physically removed and the pistos switch out. The operation took about an hour.

[Hinrich Schwab]

In my experience, mag pistols are really sensitive to heavy seas and are increasingly likely to detonate prematurely after a run of about 900 meters. Impact pistols are equally weird about the angle of impact. Ensuring a 90 degree Angle-on-Bow is extremely important. Mag pistols are best with short range shots and impact is best (from my observations) at long and extreme range. Even in calm waters, the longer the torpedo runs, the likelihood of a mag pistol misfire increases.

[andwii]

the thing I like about megs is they are fantastic in last ditch efforts to save your skin when a destroyer is comin right for you. The thing that sucks about T1's is they can somehow see the steam bubble wake a mile away even in rough seas and pitch black skies (figures) and they will avoid it, usually causing a miss or dud. It does not make much sense they would see it. Didnt otto get into the middle of convoys on the surface? if so then why can they see me so easy! lol

[Osmium Steele]

Otto went in decks awash.

Though, one time, fire his forward tubes, reloaded all 4 tubes, fired them, and brought his externally stored torpedos into the boat while in the middle of the convoy! :doh:

Betcha there was no moon that night.

[desirableroasted]

[QUOTE=andwii;1759915]the thing I like about megs is they are fantastic in last ditch efforts to save your skin when a destroyer is comin right for you. The thing that sucks about T1's is they can somehow see the steam bubble wake a mile away even in rough seas and pitch black skies (figures) and they will avoid it, usually causing a miss or dud. It does not make much sense they would see it/QUOTE]

But that is a different issue (T1 vs T2). Whether you are using stock or GWX makes a lot of difference here, too. In stock, if they see you, they might simply stop (or go to warp speed). In GWX, as far as I can tell, some basic rules of physics apply.

[Fish In The Water]

Though, one time, fire his forward tubes, reloaded all 4 tubes, fired them, and brought his externally stored torpedos into the boat while in the middle of the convoy! :doh:.

Much like the thin line between genius and insanity, there's also a thin line between nerves of steel and foolhardiness. I guess the outcome determines which side of the line you were on. :sunny:

[sharkbit]

We're much luckier than the real kaleuns were. They didn't have a switch that could give you one or the other. To change the torpedo warhead had to be physically removed and the pistos switch out. The operation took about an hour.

Sorry to necro this, but...
I've always been curious about this aspect. I've always been under the impression this is true with US torpedoes but I've never read anything about German torpedoes.

So one of my "personal realism settings" has always been to select one or the other prior to action and not switch it in the middle of the action, both in SH3 and SH4.

While surfing last night, I came across this on the U-boat Archive website about torpedo pistols:

"Pi 2 (Pi 39H) December 1942 Selectable impact and magnetic or impact alone (new German designed magnetic detonator - impact mechanism same as Pi1) G7e TIII "

Here's the link showing the whole article and all of the different pistols and dates used(it is less than a third of the way down on the page):

http://www.uboatarchive.net/KTBNotesArmament.htm

I interperate that as it was selectable at time of firing from 12/42 on on the T3 eels. Earlier pistols didn't seem to be selectable. I'm going to try to some more digging and see if I can find anything more definite.

:)

[Gargamel]

7.5 points! Good post!

Sorry, I have nothing intelligent to add. :D

[Sailor Steve]

Sorry to necro this, but...
I've always been curious about this aspect. I've always been under the impression this is true with US torpedoes but I've never read anything about German torpedoes.
And there's new information. This is the source.
http://eaglescholar.georgiasouthern.edu:8080/jspui/bitstream/10518/3627/1/Wright_David_H_201005_MA.pdf

I got some grief awhile back when I pointed out that there was a switch, but it wasn't available until late 1943, when the magnetic problem was solved. On page 30 the author says that the switch was there from the beginning. Later, on page 48 he says "At the time U-boats carried torpedoes equipped with either the MZ or AZ pistol. The option that would later allow the commander to interchange these settings while on patrol had not yet come into being, so whatever setting the pistol was set to when delivered to the boat was what it was stuck with for the duration of the patrol. It was impossible, in other words, for a commander to change his torpedo’s pistols from MZ to AZ setting and vice-versa.

Either way, the documents should keep you entertained for quite some time. :sunny:

[bigboywooly]

Interesting
If you read the KTBs etc of the Norway assault the magnetic failures are well documented.
Boats at sea were advised to change all fuses for impact as magnetic couldnt be trusted.( Later to be found out that impact didnt work correctly either )
So by that reasoning it was possible for them to change fuse types after delivery :hmmm:

[GalaxianFive]

Believe me there is nothing more frustrating than seeing contact torps bounce off the target and fail WHEN YOU HAVE SELECTED "NO DUDS" and seen Mags detonate prematurely hafway to the target, again "NO DUDS". I have experienced both IN THE SAME PATROL!!! What I get for cheating I guess. Michael.

[Sailor Steve]

So by that reasoning it was possible for them to change fuse types after delivery :hmmm:
It was my understanding before that they could be changed, but they had to be physically replaced. Maybe that was the case at the beginning. Or maybe they were like the US torpedoes, with both types installed, and the magnetic ones had to be removed.

It's hard to tell.

[bigboywooly]

Yeah not simple
I was under the impression was a setting changed under an inspection panel which is why torps had to be removed from tubes in order to carry out the switch.

You would think with the amount of the things fired there would be plenty of info about on them

[Mittelwaechter]

The pistol was a combination of an 'allways on' impact mechanism plus a magnetically triggered electric mechanism - switchable to be on/off.
Why should there have been a problem to switch this electric function on/off at torpedos in the tubes, while they could be simply manipulated for running depth, speed and gyroangle?
To switch the mag fuse off you would have had to disconnect/switch an electric circuit and the system would have been disabled.

They had to care for the sensitivity of the magnetic mechanism due to different intensities of the earth magnetic field in different regions.
Therefore they had to remove the torpedos from the tubes to update the mag fuse settings for the current region - as for several other maintenance.
It was a huge problem in the North Sea, because there are pretty much iron ore fields in rather shallow water conditions to irritate the mag fuse.
It was one of the reasons for premature detonations or duds under the keel - they simply didn't match the required sensitivity conditions.

The other major problem with the German torpeos was a little calibrated pressure chamber inside the torpedos - relevant for keeping the set running depth.
This chamber was leaky and influenced by the high pressure conditions during deep diving periods of the U-Boot.

[zygoma]

Somewhere in this thread someone posed the question of whether or not the magnetic declination in the northern latitudes of the North Atlantic might interfere with the magnetic pistols. I believe it should not.
Declination, while it does vary with time, is a very slow process, and would only interfere with navigation by magnetic compasses were it not factored in to one's calculations. While there are local anomalies in several places on the face of the earth, declination changes very slowly. Herr Kapitan Mittelwaechter's point about adjusting for the anomalies is well taken.
I lived for many years in New Jersey, then for even longer in Fairbanks, Alaska. In New Jersey, the declination (difference between magnetic and true north) was only 11° 37' W, changing by 0° 2' W/year. That same year (1972), declination was 28° 53' E changing, by 0° 1' W/year. It's changed over the past 40 years to 20° 7' E changing, by 0° 22' W/year.
So, while it *does* vary with location and time, it's always (well, nearly always) printed on navigation charts, USGS topo maps, and the like.
Since the torpedo was only using a magnetic field disturbance detector to fire its detonator, and not for finding its way, it would never know about the drift of the magnetic north pole.
<sigh> Every once in awhile my old Boy Scout stuff comes struggling out of my brain and rears its ugly head.....
Zygoma
________________________________________________
May all your submarine's surface operations exceed your number of dives by exactly one at the end of your career.

[bigboywooly]

Nice points
It should also be noted the Torpedo Inspectorate knew the fuses were defective before letting them pass for combat use
IIRC only 2 tests were carried out on the fuses.

Impact trigger problem wasnt solved until a captured british subs torpedos were looked at and the trigger copied

[flag4]

...i struggle in bad weather. never really knowing if the torp will be succesfull impact or magnetic. its a real gamble, the merchant rising up too high on a wave as the mag' passes beneath and same with impact.

or the damn thing explodes en route allerting all in the area that im about. the amount of times ive said that i will switch 'off' dud torps and then leaving it alone, because the frustration is part of the immersion.

[Mittelwaechter]

There are anomalies of the earth's magnetic field all around the globe.
http://www.abload.de/img/maganomaliespmknr.jpg
This is a very rough scale of the North Sea situation, showing several areas of different magnetic conditions.
(Can't find a high resolution/more detailed version right now)

Additionally there are many veins of iron ore in the North Sea seabed causing local irritations of the magnetic field.
The magnetic fuses were set to ignite the warhead due to a change in the magnetic conditions while passing a vessels keel,
but passing an ore vein changed the conditions either.

There are reports of wrong calculations or settings for the torpedos leaving the tube - what changed the conditions too -
blowing them up directly after the 300 meters selfarming mark.

[Jonny]

Going back to 'sharkbit (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/member.php?u=239579)' Post at the top of page 2. I also like to choose one or the other for realism! But i think my setup maybe slightly different! i set tubes I, II, III to Impact, while Tube IV is set to Magnetic. as for the rear Tube V on my VIIB i have the first set to Magnetic and then once used switch it to Impact, and then the external is always set to impact on all my externals! This means i have about 3 - 4 torpedos set at magnetic in the same tubes so i have to plan my shots to the greatest effect! Usally leaving tube IV for destroyers and tube V as a back up if a destroy comes up on my back and starts a charge to depth charge!

Dont no if this is any help or usful in anyway, but ill post it anyways!:rotfl2:

Jonny:salute: