Amsterdam court house shelled.

[TLAM Strike]

:o Yea 'shelled' like artillery!


Dutch media report the damage may have been caused by a mortar shell.

The explosion left a small hole in the outer wall of the building’s third floor.

The explosion caused windows on seven floors of the building to break. Nobody was injured.http://www.dutchamsterdam.nl/2014-mortar-attack-damages-amsterdam-court

[Platapus]

Small portable mortars, either improvised or not, can make a pretty good terrorist weapon.

Talk about being able to shoot and scoot. :yep:

[Torplexed]

Not a case of the mortar, the merrier for Amsterdam. :hmmm:

I've always been surprised that mortars aren't more common as a terrorist weapon. They're cheap and portable, and figuring out where the indirect fire is coming from can be tricky.

[TLAM Strike]

I've always been surprised that mortars aren't more common as a terrorist weapon. They're cheap and portable, and figuring out where the indirect fire is coming from can be tricky.

You need to ask... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfGlI3jRLAo)

[Schöneboom]

Mensch, talk about "Praise the Lord & pass the ammunition"! :o

[mookiemookie]

Small portable mortars, either improvised or not, can make a pretty good terrorist weapon.

Talk about being able to shoot and scoot. :yep:

I can't remember where I read this (might have been on here) but the fighters in Afghanistan have taken to setting up a mortar aimed at whatever, loading a chunk of ice into it and then putting the mortar shell on top of the ice, so when the ice melts and fires off the mortar, they're long gone when the counter-attack comes. Sneaky stuff.

[Platapus]

I can't remember where I read this (might have been on here) but the fighters in Afghanistan have taken to setting up a mortar aimed at whatever, loading a chunk of ice into it and then putting the mortar shell on top of the ice, so when the ice melts and fires off the mortar, they're long gone when the counter-attack comes. Sneaky stuff.

I have not heard that tactic and can see some problems with it. I would love to see some sources for that.

[Penguin]

The question is: would the own weight of a mortar shell be sufficent to set off the charge? The falling speed of it would certainly equal nearly zero, as ice doesn't melt rapidly.

[mookiemookie]

I have not heard that tactic and can see some problems with it. I would love to see some sources for that.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0PAA/is_3_29/ai_n13821792/

It's mentioned in there.

Also mentioned by some guys on this Aussie Army forum. Not the most reliable source, but it's being discussed there:

http://www.aussiearmy.com/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1518&start=75

[Jimbuna]

One things for sure....mortars will be much easier to get hold of than ice....in Aghanistan that is :DL

[MH]

The question is: would the own weight of a mortar shell be sufficent to set off the charge? The falling speed of it would certainly equal nearly zero, as ice doesn't melt rapidly.

:up:

I don't think it would work with small caliber and static system.

[Penguin]

The only way it could work, would be using the ice as a fuse, rather than filling it into the mortar. Something like a device that keeps the shell in the end of the tube and drops it when the ice melts. The most primitive way would be a nylon string attached to the shell with the other end of the string frozen in an ice cube, with a piece of metal or wood with a hole smaller than the cube which keeps the string strained.

[Platapus]

Evidently the idea is to freeze the entire mortar round and somehow mount it above the tube. At some point the ice will melt allowing the mortar round to drop. In theory.

I think a kid on a bicycle would work equally well for shoot and scoot and then the kid can take the tube with him if it is light enough or simply come back the next day and pick it up.

[Diopos]

You need to ask... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfGlI3jRLAo)

:D

I was certain that it would be THAT video!!!! :yep:

It also explains why they were praising Allah all the time !:DL

How would that go in the battalion? "We need some martyrs for the Heavy Weapons Company!"

:D

.

[TLAM Strike]

Evidently the idea is to freeze the entire mortar round... Ok who is the idiot who thought that up? :06:

Freezing explosives or propellant is a very bad idea! :o

[Fincuan]

Freezing explosives or propellant is a very bad idea! :o

Why?

At least ours work as intended, winter or not.

[Platapus]

It is more a case of the problems with freezing and thawing of propellants. Best case scenario they work but not as well, worst case they either don't work or work "too well". :o

Unless one is careful when they freeze powder or powder-like propellants, it is easy to get condensation from the atmosphere this, when thawed can adversely affect propellants.

The problem is that mortars are designed in such a way that to operate them, the projectile and propellant bags are held above the opening of the tube, then dropped. Anyone who has fired a mortar knows that it does have to be lined up kinda carefully or one risks hanging the round - bad thing.

This lining up is pretty easy for a human, but rather hard for a mechanism. This is why automated mortars don't operate like human operated mortars. In order to use ice, some sort of holding frame would need to be constructed to hold the round, aligned with the tube, in such a way that it is released evenly.

Ice does not melt evenly. The only way I could see this working is if the round were held in some sort of clamp which is somehow released due to ice melting.

Way too complicated. They key to improvised munitions is keep it simple. Simple works, complicated don't.

If I wanted to remotely fire a mortar, I would construct a ramp like cradle and suspend the round from a string. Then choose one of the thousand ways to cause a string to break and Bobs your Uncle.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

It is more a case of the problems with freezing and thawing of propellants. Best case scenario they work but not as well, worst case they either don't work or work "too well". :o

Unless one is careful when they freeze powder or powder-like propellants, it is easy to get condensation from the atmosphere this, when thawed can adversely affect propellants.

The problem is that mortars are designed in such a way that to operate them, the projectile and propellant bags are held above the opening of the tube, then dropped. Anyone who has fired a mortar knows that it does have to be lined up kinda carefully or one risks hanging the round - bad thing.What would be critical temperature for performance of mortar shell? I'm asking because Finnish Army have order to defend country no matter if temp is +40 or -40 degrees celsius and we use mortars, a lot... mortar here... mortar there... few more over there...

[MH]

What would be critical temperature for performance of mortar shell? I'm asking because Finnish Army have order to defend country no matter if temp is +40 or -40 degrees celsius and we use mortars, a lot... mortar here... mortar there... few more over there...


I think the accuracy may vary much between those condition.
Its not big issue for mortars.

[TLAM Strike]

Why?

At least ours work as intended, winter or not.
Possable your shells are designed for those conditions.

What I was getting at is that some explosives are two stage. There is a large amount of a standard stable high explosive or non explosive filler and a smaller amount of a more unstable high explosive. Like Dynamite, its Nitroglycerine and an absorbent mixture that prevents it from being unstable. If you freeze it the Nitro can be forced out of the Dynamite and become again highly unstable.

That is the worst case scenario, true Dynamite isn't used by the military anymore but TNT is and for example RDX can leached out of TNT or C4 if its frozen, this could result in a bomb that doesn't explode efficiently and "wastes" its energetic material.

If I wanted to remotely fire a mortar, I would construct a ramp like cradle and suspend the round from a string. Then choose one of the thousand ways to cause a string to break and Bobs your Uncle.
If you had a Soviet 160MM mortar I think you could rig it for remote fire a lot easier. Its a "break action" mortar, you don't drop the round down the tube.

Down side is: its one big mofo!

[Penguin]

Don't forget: it takes balls to fire a projectile:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6268/launchi.jpg

[MH]

Don't forget: it takes balls to fire a projectile:

http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/6268/launchi.jpg

I thought it a way to camel race...
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTnhgoZW91VIwhk5mu4UqFTEUwH33QO-kBp3DxG9HvTB4dN_EyM

[LiveGoat]

I love that there's a tree stump in the desert. :rotfl2:

[TLAM Strike]

I love that there's a tree stump in the desert. :rotfl2:
http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/3295/dmsd0411399.jpg