Is this a good thing for kids?

[AVGWarhawk]

Wrestling and learning to wrestling is one thing. Cage fighting kids is another. And this statement is just funny and dumb all at the same time.


Michelle Anderson, owner of Greenlands Labour Club, who attended the event, defended the spectacle, saying: “There was nothing wrong with it.
"The kids were there to fight, they have fought before. The parents were there. Would people rather these kids were out on the streets with guns and knives?"


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8778582/Children-filmed-in-disturbing-cage-fight.html

[Armistead]

I don't see anything wrong with that, most kids play and fight much harder in the backyard.

I rather enjoyed the ring gal.

[AVGWarhawk]

Well, ring gal sure, but does this type of fighting good? No pads or any protection.

[Tchocky]

You could say it's better without pads, kids learn to strike without hurting themselves and don't keep fighting when they are hurt.

Well, that's at least how it's supposed to work ;)

[JU_88]

Well No beating the crap out of each other is not good for kids, but hell if thats what they wanna do - then that is their choice.

That Michelle Anderson Quote is one of the dumbest statments ever though. you can justify anything with that sort of context, just compare it to somnething worse so it seems acceptable.... UNGH!!! :88)
She makes it seem like the choice is cage fighting or gangs, as if there is no other alternative lifestyle,
come on....

[TLAM Strike]

Now that's a good idea! Kids can settle playground disputes in that cage! It would be like Thunderdome!! :rock:

[Osmium Steele]

Two kids enter, one kid leaves.

[frau kaleun]

That Michelle Anderson Quote is one of the dumbest statments ever though. you can justify anything with that sort of context, just compare it to somnething worse so it seems acceptable.... UNGH!!!


"Michelle Anderson, owner of Greenlands Labour Club, who attended the event, defended the spectacle, saying: 'There was nothing wrong with it. The kids were there to shoot heroin, they have shot heroin before. The parents were there. Would people rather these kids were out on the streets with homeless junkies and dirty needles?'"


Well as long as the parents are there. Heaven knows no parents on earth have ever allowed or encouraged (much less coerced, subtly or otherwise) a kid to do something foolish and/or potentially harmful for their own selfish and immature reasons.

[vienna]

Agree with the above!...

[kiwi_2005]

300. Spartan training. Some parents have taken it too far. :roll:

[Jimbuna]

"This video has been removed by the user".

I've an open mind on the matter...but parents are not always right.

[AVGWarhawk]

"Michelle Anderson, owner of Greenlands Labour Club, who attended the event, defended the spectacle, saying: 'There was nothing wrong with it. The kids were there to shoot heroin, they have shot heroin before. The parents were there. Would people rather these kids were out on the streets with homeless junkies and dirty needles?'"


Well as long as the parents are there. Heaven knows no parents on earth have ever allowed or encouraged (much less coerced, subtly or otherwise) a kid to do something foolish and/or potentially harmful for their own selfish and immature reasons.


Could not have said it better.

Jim:
I've an open mind on the matter...but parents are not always right.

Exactly. Some are more childish than the child!!!:doh: Some as immature or less mature than their children. Grown people do dumb things all the time. One would hope the gown up is capable in deciphering right from wrong were a child will have much more difficulty deciphering specifically if old mom/dad are cheering him on!

[Ducimus]

Not all adult's should be parents.

[AVGWarhawk]

Not all adult's should be parents.

Again, could not have said it better. :up:

[gimpy117]

personally, I'm not a fan. I think MMA and things like that are not good for a kid.

[PapaKilo]

Every kid should know how to fight back if necessary.

It is parents duty to teach their kids not to start fights, but fight back if

bullied :)

[Jimbuna]

The organiser has just been on the hourly news section of my local radio station and he is puzzled at all the bad press the story is receiving....apparently it is a 'no contact' version but simply more a submission sport as in wrestling...according to him anyway and as I stated earlier, I was unable to view the original video link to form a definitive opinion.

[AVGWarhawk]

The organiser has just been on the hourly news section of my local radio station and he is puzzled at all the bad press the story is receiving....apparently it is a 'no contact' version but simply more a submission sport as in wrestling...according to him anyway and as I stated earlier, I was unable to view the original video link to form a definitive opinion.

Envision a cage wrestling match. You know, no hole barred fighting. Now picture two kids doing the same with parent cheering them on and a scantly clad women strutting the ring between rounds. Also throw in medics in green medical clothing coming into the cage when Jr comes up lame from a right cross to the chops. That is the video.

[Jimbuna]

Envision a cage wrestling match. You know, no hole barred fighting. Now picture two kids doing the same with parent cheering them on and a scantly clad women strutting the ring between rounds. Also throw in medics in green medical clothing coming into the cage when Jr comes up lame from a right cross to the chops. That is the video.

That sounds bad Chris....sounds like the basum on the radio is a bit of a teller of pork pies then :yep:

[Ducimus]

"Promise me Son, not to do the things I've done. Walk away from trouble when you can."

[PapaKilo]

"Promise me Son, not to do the things I've done. Walk away from trouble when you can."

You may place this to generation-to-generation father-son talk. However reality never changes :haha:

[AVGWarhawk]

That sounds bad Chris....sounds like the basum on the radio is a bit of a teller of pork pies then :yep:

Basically this is what the video consisted of. 14 minutes total. At one point a kid was crying in the ring. Beat up. The medic was there basically assessing if Jr could go on with the fight. I would dare say there will be betting going on before long.

I believe in kids learning to wrestle Greco-Roman style but cage match with anything goes type wrestling for kids does not create a health competitive atmosphere IMO. Throw in crazed parents and the half naked women with a sign showing the round strutting the ring is altogether something different.

The video was taken down. The producer/production person for this event is on the radio. For the life of him he cannot understand all the commotion.

[Jimbuna]

I'll watch the Sky and BBC news channels at 2200 GMT and see if any mention is made and includes any film footage.

Many many moons ago I was involved in a raid in the countryside regarding dog fights and illegal gambling and that was bad enough....kids are a whole different entity again!!

[Ducimus]

You may place this to generation-to-generation father-son talk. However reality never changes :haha:

Problem with this cage fighting business is its teaching those kids that fighting is the first option, when it should be the last.

[AVGWarhawk]

Many many moons ago I was involved in a raid in the countryside regarding dog fights and illegal gambling

This activity goes on here as well. Cock fighting also. Sick really.

[AVGWarhawk]

Problem with this cage fighting business is its teaching those kids that fighting is the first option, when it should be the last.

Absolutely!

[JU_88]

Problem with this cage fighting business is its teaching those kids that fighting is the first option, when it should be the last.

Makes no odds, Kids learn 90% of how to behave from their parents. Aholes will breed and raise more Aholes, weather they know how to fight or not is academic really.

[Krauter]

This is sickening. I'm all for teaching kids how to Box, wrestle, do ju-jitsu (albeit at a safe age, in the link someone stated that joint locks are not safe because the kids' bones' are still developing) and all that. But not together.

[Skybird]

Video no longer available. However, they mention "cage fighting". And cage fighting is something they have reported about in Germany several times now, since their is a growing underground scene in Germany, too.

Martial arts is one thing, it is about mastering your self, self-defence is a side-effect, so to speak. Sports fighting is one thing, it is about fair sporting competition, or again self-defence. And wrestling is just show, exaggeration and illusion are part of the concept.

Cage fighting is a very different thing. It is serious-meant sensationalism for the crowd wanting to see brutality for the sake of brutality - and real brutality, no stage-acts. It is more Roman circus than modern understanding of sports.

They should send the audience into the cage. Together with some lions, wild dogs and whatever the catchers can find.

Cage fighting. Dog fights. Cock fights. Its all the same sick type of perversion.

Writing this from a perspective of a having done martial arts myself. If I ever would have considered to participate in this kind of events, or fighting for money and entertainment, my master would have kicked me and turned his back on me immediately, and never would have forgiven me that I offended him like this.

Cage fighting. Spit.

[Krauter]

So this is fake to you Skybird?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H4j9BbyfLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36oSF8vNd0A

Wrestling is one of the oldest combat sports in human history. Don't let the Hollywood perversion of it scourge its name.

[PapaKilo]

Problem with this cage fighting business is its teaching those kids that fighting is the first option, when it should be the last.

If the kid is interested in cage fightings as sport, let it be wrestling, boxing

etc.. don't stand in his way with the lit candle discouraging him.

Parents may have their own opinions, but if the kid is interested in sport

(whatever it is) it is applausable!

I never heard that coaches would deliberately teach their learners to

become a trouble makers. Of course coaches and parents must make some

efforts to lead the kid on the RIGHT track as well..

[Skybird]

So this is fake to you Skybird?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4H4j9BbyfLw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=36oSF8vNd0A

Wrestling is one of the oldest combat sports in human history. Don't let the Hollywood perversion of it scourge its name.


Oh, I stumbled over the language once again.

In German, by "Wrestling" we exclusively mean the show stuff you see getting done by Hulk Hogan & Co. The kind of sports you show in the video, we call "Ringen".

I was not aware of that in English both things are described by the same term.

Hope this helps.

[Platapus]

eight years is a bit young.

[Stealhead]

I do not think a full contact fighting sport like MMa or Pro level boxing is a safe idea for anyone under 18 years of age.MMA style stuff is a bit too violent in may respects as well things like boxing,wrestling,a specific martial art if taught by a good trainer can teach a kid good discipline I do not see MMA style fighting doing this like I said MMA is really a bit too violent if you ask me it is nothing more than a modern version of Gladiatorial combat(in real life the gladiators usually did not kill each other they where too valuable) viewed by fans who in many cases would never even attempt such things in real life but they enjoy the vicarious violence this is basically the nature of MMA these days and I do not see how learning this is any good for a kid.

[Krauter]

Oh, I stumbled over the language once again.

In German, by "Wrestling" we exclusively mean the show stuff you see getting done by Hulk Hogan & Co. The kind of sports you show in the video, we call "Ringen".

I was not aware of that in English both things are described by the same term.

Hope this helps.

Aah, I apologize also, I wasn't aware the translation was different in German. I figured the rough translation would be similar to wrestling to Lutte/Lucha.

[gimpy117]

,a specific martial art if taught by a good trainer can teach a kid good discipline I do not see MMA style fighting doing this

yes, because mma is about one thing: knowing how to hurt somebody as quickly and efficiently as possible. Yes, martial arts in the end are all combat hand to hand forms, but things like kung fu, taikuando, and karate also stress spiritual, ritualized movements, respect, honor, and discipline as well, rather than just simply beating your opponent in the ring.

and besides, if you want to teach your kid how to defend his or herself, teach them krav magah. It's designed for that

[Tchocky]

yes, because mma is about one thing: knowing how to hurt somebody as quickly and efficiently as possible.
No, it's not. The object is not to inflict pain, it's to defeat your opponent using a blend of techniques. This is not necessarily about inflicting pain, you can submit an opponent by placing them in an unwinnable physical position, forcing them to tap. Obviously pain is involved, obviously. But to say the object is only to cause pain is like saying the point of chess is to eliminate all of your opponents pieces.

Yes, martial arts in the end are all combat hand to hand forms, but things like kung fu, taikuando, and karate also stress spiritual, ritualized movements, respect, honor, and discipline as well, rather than just simply beating your opponent in the ring.MMA is disciplined. There are plenty of rules, obeyed almost always by almost every fighter, just like any other sport. Calling it "no-holds barred" fighting is false.
There is plenty of PR noise between events and fighters, and the business aspect of the sport is quite frankly ridiculous, but in the cage there is discipline and respect.
That some martial arts are older and more respected should not automatically denigrate newer sports.


If I was going to teach a martial art to my theoretical kids, I'd like to do for judo.

[AVGWarhawk]

Calling it "no-holds barred" fighting is false.

I beg to differ. But perhaps I'm thinking of Ultimate Fighting were it truly is no holds barred. No matter, kids 8 years of age in a cage with cheering parents and a medic on hand does not paint a pretty picture nor one showing responsible parenting IMO.

[Tchocky]

I beg to differ. But perhaps I'm thinking of Ultimate Fighting were it truly is no holds barred.
Again, I disagree. There are plenty of rules in UFC and the fighters obey them. UFC has a reputation as being "no-holds barred", but that's very much untrue. Safer than boxing in some respects.
No matter, kids 8 years of age in a cage with cheering parents and a medic on hand does not paint a pretty picture nor one showing responsible parenting IMO.
I agree with you there. Some things aren't for kids.

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't know Tchocky. I have watched one Ultimate fight. Got darn ugly. Safer than boxing in some respects? I think that is hard to qualify. :hmmm:

[Tchocky]

I don't know Tchocky. I have watched one Ultimate fight. Got darn ugly. Safer than boxing in some respects? I think that is hard to qualify. :hmmm:
Just something I'm thinking right now. haven't really looked into it. I think it's safer to get knocked out by one hard punch or kick, rather than a continued pounding with a padded glove. If you punch too hard in MMA, you mess up your hand, whereas in boxing you can keep at it longer. Seems like your brain takes much more of a hit with boxing. Also, most punches in boxing are thrown to the head or face, where in MMA the whole body can be a target. That might sound worse in a way, but consider that you can be choked out, wrestled down, pinned, locked or simply held in MMA to lose - whereas in boxing you have to get punched in the head. A lot.

EDIT - I watch a fair bit of mixed martial arts, and almost no boxing. May be talking through my hat here :)

[AVGWarhawk]

Update:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040005/Child-cage-fighting-Police-action-bouts-involving-children-aged-just-8-9.html

[Skybird]

Update:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2040005/Child-cage-fighting-Police-action-bouts-involving-children-aged-just-8-9.html

With the video not available to me, the pics in the updated article are the first thing I see about it.

And I don't like what I see. Not one bit of it.

:down:

[Tchocky]

Of course you don't like what you see. This is pure Daily Mail bread and butter reporting. It's not worth the bother. They know you don't like it, and that's the starting point of the article - to massage and reassure previously held beliefs, not to impart information.

Thats not to make any judgement on the event or those involved. It could be horrific, it could be evil. But the news report is making the judgement for you, and you know it. Proper journalism does not exist at the Mail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15015790

[AVGWarhawk]

Of course you don't like what you see. This is pure Daily Mail bread and butter reporting. It's not worth the bother. They know you don't like it, and that's the starting point of the article - to massage and reassure previously held beliefs, not to impart information.

Thats not to make any judgement on the event or those involved. It could be horrific, it could be evil. But the news report is making the judgement for you, and you know it. Proper journalism does not exist at the Mail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15015790

I watched the 14 minute video yesterday. I made my own judgement. I don't think this is a proper 'sport' for kids at such a young age.

[Skybird]

Of course you don't like what you see. This is pure Daily Mail bread and butter reporting. It's not worth the bother. They know you don't like it, and that's the starting point of the article - to massage and reassure previously held beliefs, not to impart information.

Thats not to make any judgement on the event or those involved. It could be horrific, it could be evil. But the news report is making the judgement for you, and you know it. Proper journalism does not exist at the Mail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-15015790

Sometimes pics say more than a thousand words. I find it unappropriate to have beachsuit girls in an event featzurinbg young boys of 8 years in cage fighting. I don't like the atmoshere depicted on the pics. I don't like the adult crowd running that event. I don'T like the expression in the boy's eyes.

Don'T make this complicated again. Sometimes there is not much left to be relativized. Sometimes a shabby impression just correctly describes a shabby situation.

[Krauter]

Just something I'm thinking right now. haven't really looked into it. I think it's safer to get knocked out by one hard punch or kick, rather than a continued pounding with a padded glove. If you punch too hard in MMA, you mess up your hand, whereas in boxing you can keep at it longer. Seems like your brain takes much more of a hit with boxing. Also, most punches in boxing are thrown to the head or face, where in MMA the whole body can be a target. That might sound worse in a way, but consider that you can be choked out, wrestled down, pinned, locked or simply held in MMA to lose - whereas in boxing you have to get punched in the head. A lot.

EDIT - I watch a fair bit of mixed martial arts, and almost no boxing. May be talking through my hat here :)

The thing is, with the "MMA" gloves, which have very little padding, when ever you do get hit, it does a lot more damaged compared to getting hit in the head with a boxing glove. Think of getting hit in the head once with a brick compared to getting hit in the head 10 times with (as an example) a really heavy leather pillow.

Yes both will cause pain, but because the gloves used in MMA fights have less padding it's a lot easier to cut open your opponent. Think of how many boxing matches you've seen where one fighters face gets cut open or bruised to the extent some MMA fighters get.

Note: I'm not arguing for or against MMA/boxing here, just wanted to try and shed some light on this