New sub- lost my radar

[Flaxpants]

After my 3rd patrol I was offered a new sub, which I gratefully accepted- I had a Porpoise class, now I have Gato class.

I had added the air search radar to the Porpoise at the start of my previous mission. I now note that the Gato does not have this radar, nor is it available as an upgrade- which is a real pity as I had gotten quite used to it!

Just wondering if this is normal and if it will become available again at some point or if it is some kind of problem with the game?

I did a search for this and only found a similair instance when upgrading a conning tower, nothing about a new sub.

RFB 2.0
RSRDC

[CapnScurvy]

You may want to look at this thread regarding the loss of SJ radar found HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180088). Drill down to post #12 to see what I discovered.

I don't have verification that RFB has the same issue as the stock game but what I've discovered is the dates for equipment (either with an initial outfit or with an upgrade) can be "out of sequence" in the date they are discontinued or issued. There may be an "end date" of a piece of equipment that's before the "start date" of the same equipment. Or, the date could be in error, like having a start date of Sept. 31 (no such date exists). It makes no difference whether it's an upgrade to an older boat, or a new boats starting dates outfit. If the dates are off or out of sequence, the game can't figure out what to do with the equipment, so it won't list it as being available.

It's possible the offer for the SD radar will appear at a later date, but I've not looked at the RFB files to know for sure.

[Flaxpants]

Thanks CapnScurvy.

I am at work at the moment so am unable to check the file. I will have a look tonight and will post my findings in case anyone else runs into this issue.

Cheers:salute:

[Flaxpants]

Here is the Gato sns file from RFB 2.0. The RFB manual says that the SD Air search radar becomes available in Dec. 1941, with the SD-1 Air search radar becoming available from June 1942. My current campaign date is mid April, 1942.

Presumably [Sensor 15] is the SD in question(?), in which case the end date is not until March '43, suggesting that it should still be available.

Also, it looks to me as if [Sensor 16] is the SD-1 radar, in which case the availability dates for that do not match those in the manual...

; sensor configuration file

;lookout on conning tower
[Sensor 1]
NodeName=O01
LinkName=VisualSubWatch
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;atack periscope
[Sensor 2]
NodeName=O02
LinkName=Periscope
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;Observation periscope
[Sensor 3]
NodeName=O03
LinkName=Periscope
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;Hydrophone
[Sensor 4]
NodeName=H01
LinkName=NSS_Hydrophone_Ball_02
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19430430

[Sensor 5]
NodeName=H04
LinkName=NSS_Hydrophone_Ball_01
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19430430

;Hydrophone2
[Sensor 6]
NodeName=H02
LinkName=NSS_Hydrophone_Head
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;Sonar
[Sensor 7]
NodeName=N01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;Radar
[Sensor 8]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19420704

[Sensor 9]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NSS_EarlySJ_Mount
StartDate=19420705
EndDate=19430630

[Sensor 10]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NSS_LateSJ_Mount
StartDate=19430701
EndDate=19450831

[Sensor 11]
NodeName=R01
LinkName=NSS_EarlySJ_Mount
StartDate=19450901
EndDate=19451231

;RadioDF
[Sensor 12]
NodeName=D01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

;Radar Warning
[Sensor 13]
NodeName=C01
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Sensor 14]
NodeName=R02
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19411224

[Sensor 15]
NodeName=R02
LinkName=NSS_EarlySD
StartDate=19411225
EndDate=19430311

[Sensor 16]
NodeName=R02
LinkName=NSS_LateSD
StartDate=19430312
EndDate=19450731

[Sensor 17]
NodeName=R02
LinkName=NSS_SS
StartDate=19450801
EndDate=19451231

[Sensor 18]
NodeName=R03
LinkName=NSS_IFF_01
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Sensor 19]
NodeName=D02
LinkName=NULL
StartDate=19380101
EndDate=19451231

[Sensor 20]
NodeName=H01
LinkName=NSS_Hydrophone_Ball_04
StartDate=19430501
EndDate=19451231

[Sensor 21]
NodeName=H04
LinkName=NSS_Hydrophone_Ball_03
StartDate=19430501
EndDate=19451231

I did read somewhere of an instance where someone had to do 1 patrol without it after upgrading his sub, and then was able to purchase it his next time in port. I'm hoping this will happen to me:yeah:

[CapnScurvy]

Flaxpants, looking at the Gato.sns file I don't see anything wrong with it. The R02 entries are indeed the SD Air Radar (R01 is the SJ Surface Radar). There are 4 specific entries for the R02, starting with the first that has a Linkname=NULL, StartDate=19380101, EndDate=19411224 (pretty much sets up the use of the SD radar AFTER the 12/24/1941 date. The next R02 entry picks up the correct date of 12/25/1941 as a start date using the NSS_EarlySD. This referes to the conning tower mount that is used by the radar of the early war Gato class. The game referres to the "mount" type when it's speaking about the different radar units. Again, I don't see anything wrond with these dates.

But, this is just one of three files that can be a problem with dates and the availability to get the equipment you should have. Check out the #15 post here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180088) to get the complete picture. One of the other files can still be the culprit.

I will admit that as the game time passes you probably will get the offer to get the SD radar. Once all three files are on the same page with the dates, the offer to equip your boat with the right radar should occur.

[Flaxpants]

Edit- Well guess what? I just started up the game, loaded my base save, and hey presto! would you believe it- it's all there again. So don't bother reading through all the code, just restart your game!


Thanks for helping me out here CapnAScurvy, very much appreciated.

I checked out your post and had a good look at the files in question, I'm fairly sure I'm looking at the right sections :har:. I'm must admit to being slightly confused as to how the dates relate to each other- I certainly can't see much correlation between them, but then I'm not exactly sure what I'm looking at!

UPC file (UpgradePackslot)

[UserPlayerUnit

1.UpgradePackSlot 2]
ID= UpgAirSearchRadar
NameDisplayable= Air Search
Radar
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=AirRadars,
AdvAirRadars
UserCustomizable=Yes
IDLinkUpgradePackSlots=
EqSlot33, AirRadarAntenna
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsInter
valDefault1= 1942-10-01,
1945-07-31,
UpackGatoImpSDRadar
IDLinkUpgradePackSlotsInter
valDefault2= 1945-08-01,
NULL, UpackGatoSVRadar

UPGRADE PACKS UPC file

[UpgradePack 38]
ID= UpackGatoSDRadar
NameDisplayable= SD Air
Search Radar
Info=SDRadarInfo
Notes=SDRadarNotes
FunctionalType=
UpFTypeSensorRadar
UpgradePackSlotType=
AirRadars
Type=NULL
;UpgradePackInterval=1941-
12-01, 1942-08-01
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
onCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
ons1=1941-12-01, 1942-12-
31, 500
IDLinkUpgradePackElements=
SDRadarApp,
SDRadarAntennaEarly

[UpgradePack 39]
ID= UpackGatoImpSDRadar
NameDisplayable= SD-1 Air
Search Radar
Info=ImpSDRadarInfo
Notes=ImpSDRadarNotes
FunctionalType=
UpFTypeSensorRadar
UpgradePackSlotType=
AirRadars
Type=NULL
;UpgradePackInterval=1942-
06-01, NULL
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
onCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
ons1=1942-07-14, 1942-07-
31, 500
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
ons2=1942-08-01, 1942-12-
31, 100
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOpti
ons3=1943-01-01, NULL, 0
IDLinkUpgradePackElements=
SDRadarApp,
SDRadarAntennaLate

[CapnScurvy]

Hey if it's fixed, it's fixed!!

I know when a player asks, Where's my radar, or Deck Gun, or Hydrophone? The answer is usually due to the date's of the sensors/conning tower upgrades that are out of whack. Whether it's directly linked to the particular NSS_Subname.sns file, or the NSS_Subname.upc file, or the UpgradePacks.upc file (or all three), there-in lies the question.

The fact that different mods do change the start/end dates of the various equipment can either remedy the situation or make it worse. Or, just changing one of the files, but not another can also make a problem too.

When I get around to making the "Optical Targeting Correction for RFB 2.0" I'll be looking at what RFB has regarding it's date's, and correcting as needed.

[Flaxpants]

It's fixed alright, I even got the option for the fore mount deck gun. So now I'm all tooled up- got the shooters in the trunk and ready to roll!

Much looking forward to you getting round to making the OTC for RFB 2.0!:yep:

Thanks for your fine help once again Sir!

[TorpexXIII]

Im having the same with Ops Monsun. Im Jun 1942 had basic radar warning and radar on a type VIIc. Got a new conning tower and lost both. Which is no problem but also lost the slots to put them on. The radar isnt up as an option and the slots to put them in arent even there!? I have restarted the game to an in port save point and still nowt... :(

[CapnScurvy]

TorpexXIII, I'm suspecting the same answer for you is in correcting one, or all three, of the below listed files. I've copied a part of the post I've referred to, explaining what I know about these three files and what they do. If you can open the files (with Windows Notepad), you can check the specific files for yourself to see what Operation Monsun may have changed. As I did with the images below, it's good to open all three files together to check dates between one file and the other. There needs to be a progression of when one file states "This particular piece of equipment ends on this date, and this upgrade begins here", that all three files state the same thing.

=============================

What I'm referring to is the "stock" game files.

To start, there are three files that need to be looked at in order to check and/or correct this date issue.

1st. Submarine/NSS_SubName/NSS_Subname.sns file lists the equipment and their dates the specific subs have their equipment brought into service (if at all). This file is the key file that spells out what gets loaded onto the sub, and when. The "null" parameter means it is not available. A "LinkName=NULL" that lists the "StartDate as 19380101" and an "EndDate of 19451231" says you don't have this particular piece of equipment for the entire duration of the game.

2nd. Submarine/NSS_SubName/NSS_Subname.upc file lists the various parts (including the crew) that make up the entire sub. What's important in this file is found way down towards the bottom in the "UpgradePackSlot" section. This section lists the various upgrades the sub has available and what is "linked" to that upgrade. It's my opinion the dates found here should be exact to the .sns file above.

3rd. UPCData/UPCUnitsData/UpgradePacks.upc file lists the specific upgrades; what their "elements" are that make up the upgrade; their dates that make them available for your choosing; and at what cost of renown for the upgrade. This file I believe, shows along the left hand side of the upgrade menu screen at the dates listed to "offer" them to you (with the specific renown listed price). The different dates listed are mainly for the purpose of lowering the price of the upgrade the longer you don't select it. It's the first initial entry for the dates that tell the game when a piece of equipment is available for upgrade.

Below, I have the three stock files opened for a Gato sub and marked are the sections that refer to the SJ radar and its upgrades.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/StockGato.jpg


The Gato gets three different types of SJ radar offered (SJ, SJ-1, and ST). I've colored each dated entry for the three specific types of radar for the three specific files. The Purple highlights are the problem dates for the Gato sub. Notice on the "UpgradePacks.upc" file the same date of Dec. 24, 1943 for the lower 100 renown purchase price (from 500 renown to 100 renown) as the end date of the 500 renown price. When you look at any other entries in this file, the end date for one price does not carry over to become the start date of another. Also, the Blue highlighted date for the ST radar is not correct. Although this may be a moot point for the Gato class, I'm not entirely sure the Gato gets offered the ST radar in the later part of the war. That could explain why the small Orange highlighted "comment out" simi-colon is in the NSS_Gato.upc file. Need it or not, the image below shows the corrected dates for the Gato.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/MyGato.jpg


This image shows how I have the Gato changed from the stock files. In my opinion, the first two files should be exact in the dates listed (whatever you may choose). The 3rd file, since it has the main task of offering the upgrade on the games "Equipment Upgrade" screen, doesn't have to be exact but should have its date just prior to when the other files list the upgrade. This way the Upgrade is made available just prior to when it actually is ready for purchase. As I stated in an earlier post, I believe one of the faults in the game is offering an upgrade long before it actually comes available for use. As you can see by what I've changed, the dates of the "offer" are just one day ahead of its availability.

As you can guess, this three file relationship should be checked and confirmed for all subs. At least the American subs. I'm guessing the German subs follow the SHIII file order that have been around now for quite some time so, I've not confirmed or checked how well they do. I'm guessing they are ok.

What I found is the .sns file for the Balao, Porpoise, S18, S42, Salmon, Sargo need to be corrected in the dates listed. Either the dates are not in sequence or are off some other way (like listing the 31st of June?!). The Balao issue is specific to the SD (R02) radar section only, the Sclass boats have problems in both SD and SJ sections, the others with just the SJ (R01)radar. Then you make the exact dates in the NSS_Subname.upc files, and then move back one day in the UpgradePacks.upc file.

=================================


It's worth looking at, I don't have OM downloaded to see for myself.

One of the reasons why these date issues don't effect every player, all the time, is that every player plays the game differently. For one player, the first patrol mission may take just three weeks of game time to complete. Another player may take three months or more before returning to base. The game does a good job in keeping time (that's why having a bogus date like April 31 for an upgrade start or end, throws the game into "What The...???"), if a player hits the base just right he won't see a problem with an upgrade or boat swap. The game time marches past the problem date and all is well with the world again. If you're unlucky to fall into the wrong at-base times, you'll have these errors come up.

[Daniel Prates]

Scurvy's posts always scare me away from becoming a modder. :O: