Newcomer to subsims and submarines in general

[McChubs]

Hello there, I am as the title suggests new to subsims. I was playing SH3 not long ago, and recently picked up the 4th one as I saw it on Steam for a few quid. Having not much idea of what I'm doing, I generally play the game on realism settings that I'm sure most of the hardcore fans would laugh at; external views, action cams, easy torpedo mode. I did set limited O2, dud torpedos and the like. So basically, a few questions:

How possible would it be for a total newbie to play the game as it is intended, with 100% realism? It's nice to have the external views and all, the game is good looking, but there's a nagging sense of cheating whenever I play it like an arcade game. I have no idea how the sonar, radar etc works though, so trying to play it on sensors only would likely have me crashed into the walls of the docks at this point. I glanced at the manual, but somehow having it as a .pdf instead of paper in hand puts me off.

Secondly, what would people suggest to be required reading/watching? As of now I have only a broad outline of how a submarine works, but when it comes to induction pumps and the reason why a diesel engine would suck all the air out of the ship if left spinning underwater, it's all beyond me.

Finally, are mods necessary in people's view? I've seen a lot of people talk about a couple of mods, but it seems futile to extend the complexity of the game if I don't play it properly right now.

Phew, sorry for the immense first post.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

How possible would it be for a total newbie to play the game as it is intended, with 100% realism? It's nice to have the external views and all, the game is good looking, but there's a nagging sense of cheating whenever I play it like an arcade game.
Playing at 100% makes for an intense experience, but there's a pretty steep learning curve. You'll need to study the tutorials on manual targetting and ask a lot of questions, and it will still feel like you're actually going to submarine school. If you played SH3 enough, you'll find SH4 not that much different. A lot of things are changed, but it's still the same game engine. Also, a lot of folks play at 100% except they leave the external views on for the simple reason that they like to take screenshots. It is possible to discipline yourself to not use the externals to cheat. Difficult, but possible.

I have no idea how the sonar, radar etc works though, so trying to play it on sensors only would likely have me crashed into the walls of the docks at this point. I glanced at the manual, but somehow having it as a .pdf instead of paper in hand puts me off.
Luckily we have a large community of experts, and you'll find us friendly. Argumentative sometimes, but mostly friendly just the same. You can feel free to ask all the questions you want. You will get answers.

Secondly, what would people suggest to be required reading/watching? As of now I have only a broad outline of how a submarine works, but when it comes to induction pumps and the reason why a diesel engine would suck all the air out of the ship if left spinning underwater, it's all beyond me.
Luckily many of us are also history buffs, so you have an opportunity to learn a lot about the real thing as well. We know where the good sites are, and can show you anything from the simplest basics to the actual US Submarine Manual. Here's the link, but be prepared to be stunned, amazed and baffled, as well as overwhelmed. But it's worth it.
http://www.maritime.org/fleetsub/

Again, ask all the questions you want.

Finally, are mods necessary in people's view? I've seen a lot of people talk about a couple of mods, but it seems futile to extend the complexity of the game if I don't play it properly right now.
In the long run, yes they are. The big supermods fix a lot of problems with the game, and also add so much more you won't believe the difference. But play stock for awhile and get the feel for how it all works. There is plenty of time.

And don't forget to ask questions.

Phew, sorry for the immense first post.
That wasn't immense at all. We have many forums here at Subsim, and some of them have people who like to post whole treatises at a time. You'll find out.

[CCIP]

Welcome! :)

I would recommend that you start out with mods right away, mostly because they fix some of the fundamental flaws that the game shipped with. Just be careful to learn what they do and how they work - for example if you start with Trigger Maru, you'll definitely get a fuller experience, but it's also more difficult than the default game by design (i.e. enemy destroyers are merciless and effective, planes will make your life hell anywhere near enemy land). So it's best to be ready.

I wouldn't go with 100% at the start, but don't be too afraid of the difficulty either. The main things that I would not get over-confident about at the start is disabling the external camera and enabling manual targeting. Those are really the only two things that make 100% substantially more difficult than easier settings. Manual targeting and situational awareness are two things that take a lot of practice, and you might get bored of just endlessly practicing them without jumping into a campaign. Everything else you can learn by just reading manuals, forums, or asking questions from players here. So you might want to tick those two settings down for starters, and spend some time watching how things work from the outside rather than being 'trapped' in your sub with a complex set of targeting dials you don't have a good feel for.

So in summary: I think mods are good at the start, but be sure you choose wisely and read how they work first; and while you can start at 100% difficulty, I'd recommend starting with difficulty on high except for manual targeting and external views.

[magic452]

CCIP has some good advice there but one thing I would add is limited fuel.
It's a game changer if you've been using unlimited fuel. All the others are pretty easy to get use to. Might leave dud torpedoes till later as well, can be very frustrating to a beginner.

As far as mods go, this depends on the individual. I played stock for quit some time and only added mods when I really have a good feel for the game.
One very good one to start with would be Game Fixes Only GFO. It is the stock game but with most all the smaller bugs fixed. When you add one of the supermods you can really see the difference.

Go at your own pace and don't worry about what the 100% think as they were all in your shoes not all that long ago. Play the way you want to play.

Magic

[WernherVonTrapp]

Welcome abroad.:D:salute:

[McChubs]

Thanks for the friendly welcome and replies all. What are these bugs and flaws the mods fix exactly? I never noticed anything blatantly broken, perhaps through lack of experience?

100% isn't exactly my goal, I'm just fascinated with the idea that players can have first-person only views and know where they are, where the enemies are, and attack them simply through radar or sonar. At the moment it feels like blatant cheating, using the external camera to zoom over the water and spot targets. I've been playing it very arcade-y despite the difficulty being 50 or so, zooming about and taking laughably poor shots even with the easy aiming being on. It's fun, but the most tense moments have been the more realistic moments in the game, like when two destroyers tried to depth charge me so I crash dived and slipped away with silent running. The 'real' parts like that are what keep me coming back, so I'd love to play it as was intended.

I'll have a proper read through the manual and come back when I understand more about it. I'll soon be hitting the sea floor and crashing into docks blind whilst torpedoing my own team mates!

[Armistead]

They're many bugs, some effect play, but many relate to the sub itself.
You could look at a mod like GFO and he should list the commom bug fixes.

I'm in the camp of using mods right away, why eat a hot dog when you can have steak. The graphic improvements alone are worth it. Just remember you'll have to relearn the game somewhat when you move to a supermod like TMO.

Most mods like TMO have a pdf file that you can download and read and compare changes.

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks for the friendly welcome and replies all. What are these bugs and flaws the mods fix exactly? I never noticed anything blatantly broken, perhaps through lack of experience?
Sometimes guages go missing, water that looks like a bowl of Jello, subs that ride through storms as if they were on rails, sometimes being completely out of the water.

There are many more, but those were the first ones that came to mind.

100% isn't exactly my goal, I'm just fascinated with the idea that players can have first-person only views and know where they are, where the enemies are, and attack them simply through radar or sonar.
It was pre-war American doctrine to attack with sonar only. It never worked, not once, so any player who makes it work for them is, in essence, cheating. I'm not knocking it, because you have to play the way that's best for you, but don't get to obsessed with learning how to do something they couldn't do in real life.

[Gerald]

@McChubs. Welcome to SubSim, :salute:

[Matthew_T_Sherman]

Load tube 2 and supersize it. :03:

[McChubs]

By using instruments only I didn't mean sinking subs by sonar... just that I wanted a pure, non-external view (i.e. the F12 hotkey). How feasible is it to play with absolutely no external views? As I said, it's fascinating to me that it's totally playable by internal sensors and periscopes only. The idea of finding an enemy by sonar or radar, using the periscope to generate a launch solution and slipping away is basically the dream at this point. Are there any tutorials any of you would recommend for easing into the idea of sonar/radar use?

[Sailor Steve]

There are tutorials galore, but someone else will have to point you to them. I've never used them. :oops: But in answer to your first question, yes you can play it without any external views with no problem whatsoever. SH3's forerunner SH2 was the first subsim to have any external views at all. Aces of The Deep and Silent Hunter 1 had none, and they worked just fine. Some people swear that it's the only way to get the full experience; others like to take lots of screenshots. Both work equally well.

[McChubs]

Show off!

[White Owl]

Look at the thread stickied at the top of this forum: Sub Skipper's Bag of Tricks-- Techniques, Tactics, Tutorials, Videos (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795) That's your best resource for learning how to play the game. The official manual is almost worthless.

This game is one of the best sims of any kind I've ever looked at. I'm another guy who knew almost nothing about submarines a few weeks ago. Just by lurking a lot and reading everything people have been writing here for years, I've learned basic competency with manual targeting and am gradually weaning myself off map contacts. I won't turn off the external views because I love looking at pretty graphics and taking screenshots, but it's easy to be disciplined enough not to use the cam to cheat. In battle I only use the external view to watch the torpedo hits (or misses) after tracking the target and setting up the shot.

There are soooo many mods for this game, for so many specific tastes, asking for general recommendations isn't going to work out so well. Just read up, see what's mentioned most frequently, and start trying them all out. You'll figure out which ones are good for you.

[phil82]

Secondly, what would people suggest to be required reading/watching? As of now I have only a broad outline of how a submarine works, but when it comes to induction pumps and the reason why a diesel engine would suck all the air out of the ship if left spinning underwater, it's all beyond me.


For learning manual targeting the best videos are by Werner Sobe, you can find them in the Guides sticky at the top of the page. They'll teach you everything you need to know to actually be able to hit something when you find it. The Dick O'kane method by Rockin Robbins is also really good for when you don't have time to plot a proper solution. There are plenty of guides on how to track ships and such, but they are more dependant on what mods and settings you use so just have a look through them.

One specific tip, if the deck watch spots a plane then dive, sharpish!

Good luck.

[McChubs]

Cheers for all the help! Whenever I had a plane spotted overhead I'd always man the flak guns and shoot it down... is that against common sense? Using sharp turns, I could generally avoid easily any bombs thrown my way.