Egypt on alert after Israel embassy stormed in Cairo

[Gerald]

Bethany Bell reports on the violence outside the Israeli embassy.

Egypt has declared a state of alert after protests on the streets of Cairo, following the storming of the Israeli embassy on Friday.

Security forces fired tear gas and drove armoured vehicles at protesters throwing stones and petrol bombs. At least two people died, officials said.

The protesters broke into the embassy building, entering consular offices and throwing out documents, officials said.

Israel flew its ambassador and nearly all its diplomats back home.

Egypt's governing military council is meeting later on Saturday to discuss the situation.

One man died of a heart attack during the protests, while at least one other protester was killed, medical sources said.

At least 1,093 people were injured in the clashes, Deputy Health Minister Hamid Abaza told the Associated Press.

Hundreds of protesters remained near the embassy until after dawn, burning tyres in the street and chanting slogans against Egypt's military rulers.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/14864411

Note: 10 September 2011 Last updated at 10:17 GMT

[Skybird]

I wanted to post the following in a separate threat, when seeing this one. I now insert it here.

-----

As was to be feared, the removal of iron-fisted hardliners that kept Islamic fundamentalism and sentiment somewhat in check in several Arab countries, has started to backfire against the only real democracy in the region, Israel.

The Arab Spring, as it is euphemistically called, amongst other countries freed Egypt of Mubarak, who was supressing the ultra-fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood with brute force. Now, the brotherhood already is the politically probably best organised and set-up party in Egypt, having organised itself much much faster than anyone believed possible, even me. The results we see: they have started to agitate against tourism and especially want to ban alcoholic drinks and uncovered female bodies even for tourists on the beaches, in hotels, and tourist ressorts. More important, the relations to Israel had cooled down already before the Israelis in an unclear incident shot five Egypt border guards some time ago, for which Israel gave a full-scaled diplomatic and official apology. The Israeli embassy has been place of confrontations between protesters and the police in recent weeks, but last night, the violence turned so dangerous that the whole staff was evacuated and fled to Israel, with the mob managing to climb into rooms on higher floors and throwing documents out of the windows.

US embassy in Iran, anyone?

For Israel, the loss of the long-lasting and solid relation with Mubarak's Egypt, is a very significant loss, and a security risk to it's very existence that cannot be overestimated. And while to their relief nobody seems to care to free Islamism in Syria by removing the hostile but "identified" Assad regime, to which the Israelis hold an attitude of that at least thry can calculate him and know what they have to expect from him, a new front has opened to Israel which maybe is the most threatening of them all, except the Iran-Hezbollah-Hamas axis. And that is Turkey.

Turkey wants to profilate itself as the new "big man" in the region, which made Erdoghan publicly defending Gaddafi and Assad until just months ago, calling the Syrians and the Iranians their close friends, defending the Iranian nuclear program (maybe because Turkey wants nukes by itself, too?), and claiming that it is impossible that Assad does any crimes against humanity and human rights, because as a true Muhammeddan he is impossible to do any evil at all - original tone Erdoghan. The Gaza flotilla last year was a Turkish provocation aimed at both Israel, and the Arab world that Turkey wanted to conquer with a charm offensive, claiming for itself the status as the only true and honest broker of Palestinian and Arabs' interests. Especially the Osmans - a broker of Arab interests...? After that kind of history of Osman-Arab relations...??? With the Gaza 2 flotilla having faltered this year, Turkey insisted on an apology of Israel over the death of Turkish acitivists that were shot by Israeli commandos in direct self-defence after a raging mob tried to kill the boarding soldiers. Israel so far offered compensation payments, and expressed its regret over the death of those mobsters. But since this is notz about apologies,m but about humiliating Israel, the Turks are not satisfied, and like with many things of their past, for example the Armenian genocide, they have problems with their own responsibility in orchestrating and designing the flotilla plan, too.

With the UN recently having entangled itself once again with that self-contradicting report - that says that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is legal and according to International Law, but implying that enforcing the blockade and the self defence of boarding commandos was excessive and illegitimate - Turkey saw the need for action once again. While earlier this year it seemed as if the Arab Spring, freeing also many young people who did not care so much for Islamism and Arab great power fantasies (to the Turks great and unwelcomed surprise), but for personal freedoms and Western-style everyday life and access to media and internet, Turkey was in danger of loosing it's major propaganda tool of appeal for the Arabs. No wonder then, that they now try to mob Israel even more, even challenging international law over the blockade. They know that the law says the blockade is only valid as long as the blockading force does not allow a single blockade runner passing through. There cannot be a single excemption from the rule, for legal reasons.

But is it only about Turkish superpower ambitions and attempts to become the dominant force in the region? This week, Turkey has openly threatened military force against Israel if Israel would enforce the blockade against a Turkish blockade runner. But more important, Turkey also threatened military force against Malta (that just has lost its only military naval basis in a big explosion of ammunition bunkers some months ago) in case of Malta doing seabed explorations in the Eastern mediterranean, and in waters that the Turks claim to be theirs around Cyprus. Because there is something that you also find offshore the beach of Gaza : gas.

The mixture is dangerous. A - at least formally - member of NATO, Turkey, threatens offgensive military operation against sovereign nations in the region for constructed allegations, the EU says nothign about that threat to Israel and Malta, NATO says nothing about that too, Britain just silently hopes for something, France even wants to increase the pressure on Israel by wanting the EU to recognise a Palestinian state, and Washington shows to be completely helpless over two of its former key allies slowly moving their hands to the other's throat. Everybody is busy, everybody cries or yells - and Iran sits on the fenceline and uses the opportunity to silenty move ahead with the nuclear weapon program, while it became known 2 weeks ago that the watchdog has supressed documents giving strong evidence already several years ago for the existence of an Iranian weapon program.

Turkey is not over a union with the Arabs, but in true Osmanic spirit wants to dominate them. It also is not about the Palestinians in Gaza, but about the gas in the Eastern mediterranean. The anti-semitism just comes as a free ingredient of principal Islam, which has hated Jews already since Muhammad hated them.

The position of Israel is not good. The EU's attitude towards Israel is underhanded and split-tongued, at best. The majority of the UN is openly hostile towards Israel, and pro-Islamic. Add to this that the current civil protest of unseen proportions in Israel also has gained its starting energy from the youth revolutions in the area.

Mortgages of an Arab Spring.

Germany btw still delivers weapons and military platforms to Turkey. Wikileaked documents showed months ago that Washington internally has given up Turkey years ago and does no longer count it as a trustworthy ally, the Americans already score it as a country fallen to Islamic fundamentalism. I wonder to what degree Turkey has geined military key technology from Europe, the US, and Israel in the past. Anyhow: it was a very bad idea to trade that.

Where does it all head for? I don'T know, but I have my fears. The threats from Turkey against Europe and Israel alike do raise alarming concerns. And still nobody in the EU wants to recognise it, with some players m aybe cynically calculating against Israel and for Turkey in order to get their own share of the gas-pie.

What did Nietzsche say? "Nations are the coldest of all monsters." And I know absolutely no exception from that. Israel's eccentric foreign minister Lieberman wants to retaliate by suporting the AKP obviously militarily, and wanting to hurt the Turks also by raising international support for pro-Armenian campaings over the genocide commited by the Turks. No doubt thjat Turkey will retaliate against this, too.

And Washington? Washington sees both its influence and financial power declining. Sooner or later they will deliver more military hightech to Israel. Or not - with respect to the oil-rich potenates in the region, in Saudi Arabia, and paying tribute to this precious thing called Arab Sporing in Egypt and Libya?

The world was easier during the cold war.

[Torplexed]

Hopefully Egypt's ruling generals can keep the lid on those many decades of repressed anti-Israeli sentiment. But I doubt it in the long term. Nasser must be smiling from the grave.

[Jimbuna]

Round two of regional meltdown has just begun Sky and it is highly likely we may see a war front develop within the next 6 to 12 months...that is my concern anyways.

The stark choice for those countries who concern themselves over the goings on in the region may well boil down to which side they will support.....Turkey or Israel.

[MH]

I wanted to post the following in a separate threat, when seeing this one. I now insert it here.

.

Good analysis.
No surprise here.
I wonder what the great Arab democracy supporters have to say now.
Turkey with UN spineless help is spewing anti Israeli rant because "its a must" to be Sunni leader-Arab populism.
Problem is its a tree there may be no way down from.

[Castout]

You know in this life there are two kind of people. The pragmatic who have convinced themselves that the world needs evil and the idealists who say the world could be just and much better. In the case of Eqypt the latter may have won the struggle to get rid of Mubarak but the first is now making their version of reality in the field. Funny thing is the first usually won not because it is more right but because most people are fallible and those in power are greatly tempted. I certainly hope someday the idealists could have the better world they dream of and have the realization that they need to take charge of it instead trusting it to the first group of people who are just going to run it according to their picture of the world, a world which needs evil. As for Israel what goes around comes around.

Israel needs to realize that they TOO need moral high ground in issues related to Palestine and her Arab neighbors and to actually start to engage their Arab neighbors in a more respectful ways. Especially to engage between Israel society and her Arab's neighbors. That is to invest in social, economic and cultural and personal exchanges between societies instead of investing all stocks on a particular group or a person.

Many things are not what they seem. I can give you example that in my country, Indonesia, Islamist fundamentalists too were put under tight control during the dictatorial rule of Soeharto. Now a little more after a decade post Soeharto's downfall, the state intelligence agency and national police body have been funding Islamist fundamentalist group as their attack dog. This is not because the government consists of Islamist fundamentalists but because the people who are in power believe that evil is a necessity in world and thus they complicate things unnecessarily. This group has been known to extort money and stir religious intolerance and unrest. They are not independent as they are financed by the state, our tax payer money.:damn:. A lot of things in this world are seen particularly in some way not because they are particularly that way BUT because they are made to be seen as such.

[Gerald]

I wanted to post the following in a separate threat, when seeing this one. I now insert it here.

-----

As was to be feared, the removal of iron-fisted hardliners that kept Islamic fundamentalism and sentiment somewhat in check in several Arab countries, has started to backfire against the only real democracy in the region, Israel.

The Arab Spring, as it is euphemistically called, amongst other countries freed Egypt of Mubarak, who was supressing the ultra-fundamentalist Muslim Brotherhood with brute force. Now, the brotherhood already is the politically probably best organised and set-up party in Egypt, having organised itself much much faster than anyone believed possible, even me. The results we see: they have started to agitate against tourism and especially want to ban alcoholic drinks and uncovered female bodies even for tourists on the beaches, in hotels, and tourist ressorts. More important, the relations to Israel had cooled down already before the Israelis in an unclear incident shot five Egypt border guards some time ago, for which Israel gave a full-scaled diplomatic and official apology. The Israeli embassy has been place of confrontations between protesters and the police in recent weeks, but last night, the violence turned so dangerous that the whole staff was evacuated and fled to Israel, with the mob managing to climb into rooms on higher floors and throwing documents out of the windows.

US embassy in Iran, anyone?

For Israel, the loss of the long-lasting and solid relation with Mubarak's Egypt, is a very significant loss, and a security risk to it's very existence that cannot be overestimated. And while to their relief nobody seems to care to free Islamism in Syria by removing the hostile but "identified" Assad regime, to which the Israelis hold an attitude of that at least thry can calculate him and know what they have to expect from him, a new front has opened to Israel which maybe is the most threatening of them all, except the Iran-Hezbollah-Hamas axis. And that is Turkey.

Turkey wants to profilate itself as the new "big man" in the region, which made Erdoghan publicly defending Gaddafi and Assad until just months ago, calling the Syrians and the Iranians their close friends, defending the Iranian nuclear program (maybe because Turkey wants nukes by itself, too?), and claiming that it is impossible that Assad does any crimes against humanity and human rights, because as a true Muhammeddan he is impossible to do any evil at all - original tone Erdoghan. The Gaza flotilla last year was a Turkish provocation aimed at both Israel, and the Arab world that Turkey wanted to conquer with a charm offensive, claiming for itself the status as the only true and honest broker of Palestinian and Arabs' interests. Especially the Osmans - a broker of Arab interests...? After that kind of history of Osman-Arab relations...??? With the Gaza 2 flotilla having faltered this year, Turkey insisted on an apology of Israel over the death of Turkish acitivists that were shot by Israeli commandos in direct self-defence after a raging mob tried to kill the boarding soldiers. Israel so far offered compensation payments, and expressed its regret over the death of those mobsters. But since this is notz about apologies,m but about humiliating Israel, the Turks are not satisfied, and like with many things of their past, for example the Armenian genocide, they have problems with their own responsibility in orchestrating and designing the flotilla plan, too.

With the UN recently having entangled itself once again with that self-contradicting report - that says that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is legal and according to International Law, but implying that enforcing the blockade and the self defence of boarding commandos was excessive and illegitimate - Turkey saw the need for action once again. While earlier this year it seemed as if the Arab Spring, freeing also many young people who did not care so much for Islamism and Arab great power fantasies (to the Turks great and unwelcomed surprise), but for personal freedoms and Western-style everyday life and access to media and internet, Turkey was in danger of loosing it's major propaganda tool of appeal for the Arabs. No wonder then, that they now try to mob Israel even more, even challenging international law over the blockade. They know that the law says the blockade is only valid as long as the blockading force does not allow a single blockade runner passing through. There cannot be a single excemption from the rule, for legal reasons.

But is it only about Turkish superpower ambitions and attempts to become the dominant force in the region? This week, Turkey has openly threatened military force against Israel if Israel would enforce the blockade against a Turkish blockade runner. But more important, Turkey also threatened military force against Malta (that just has lost its only military naval basis in a big explosion of ammunition bunkers some months ago) in case of Malta doing seabed explorations in the Eastern mediterranean, and in waters that the Turks claim to be theirs around Cyprus. Because there is something that you also find offshore the beach of Gaza : gas.

The mixture is dangerous. A - at least formally - member of NATO, Turkey, threatens offgensive military operation against sovereign nations in the region for constructed allegations, the EU says nothign about that threat to Israel and Malta, NATO says nothing about that too, Britain just silently hopes for something, France even wants to increase the pressure on Israel by wanting the EU to recognise a Palestinian state, and Washington shows to be completely helpless over two of its former key allies slowly moving their hands to the other's throat. Everybody is busy, everybody cries or yells - and Iran sits on the fenceline and uses the opportunity to silenty move ahead with the nuclear weapon program, while it became known 2 weeks ago that the watchdog has supressed documents giving strong evidence already several years ago for the existence of an Iranian weapon program.

Turkey is not over a union with the Arabs, but in true Osmanic spirit wants to dominate them. It also is not about the Palestinians in Gaza, but about the gas in the Eastern mediterranean. The anti-semitism just comes as a free ingredient of principal Islam, which has hated Jews already since Muhammad hated them.

The position of Israel is not good. The EU's attitude towards Israel is underhanded and split-tongued, at best. The majority of the UN is openly hostile towards Israel, and pro-Islamic. Add to this that the current civil protest of unseen proportions in Israel also has gained its starting energy from the youth revolutions in the area.

Mortgages of an Arab Spring.

Germany btw still delivers weapons and military platforms to Turkey. Wikileaked documents showed months ago that Washington internally has given up Turkey years ago and does no longer count it as a trustworthy ally, the Americans already score it as a country fallen to Islamic fundamentalism. I wonder to what degree Turkey has geined military key technology from Europe, the US, and Israel in the past. Anyhow: it was a very bad idea to trade that.

Where does it all head for? I don'T know, but I have my fears. The threats from Turkey against Europe and Israel alike do raise alarming concerns. And still nobody in the EU wants to recognise it, with some players m aybe cynically calculating against Israel and for Turkey in order to get their own share of the gas-pie.

What did Nietzsche say? "Nations are the coldest of all monsters." And I know absolutely no exception from that. Israel's eccentric foreign minister Lieberman wants to retaliate by suporting the AKP obviously militarily, and wanting to hurt the Turks also by raising international support for pro-Armenian campaings over the genocide commited by the Turks. No doubt thjat Turkey will retaliate against this, too.

And Washington? Washington sees both its influence and financial power declining. Sooner or later they will deliver more military hightech to Israel. Or not - with respect to the oil-rich potenates in the region, in Saudi Arabia, and paying tribute to this precious thing called Arab Sporing in Egypt and Libya?

The world was easier during the cold war. "The world was easier during the cold war". A lot of truth behind these words, even if nobody wants to go back this time!

[Tribesman]

With the UN recently having entangled itself once again with that self-contradicting report
It wasn't self contradicting.

that says that the Israeli blockade of Gaza is legal and according to International Law, but implying that enforcing the blockade and the self defence of boarding commandos was excessive and illegitimate
It didn't say that at all.
So Skybird with his usual effort has managed to take A,B &C to say A is B C is A and B is 227.
That probably explains why Sky thinks its self contradicting:doh:

For Israel, the loss of the long-lasting and solid relation with Mubarak's Egypt
:har::har::har::har::har::har:solid relation.

In other news....
OMG the jetty at Floriana has apparently exploded, how can the maltese navy now keep speedboats out of the swimming areas, their only naval base has been blown to oblivion. Good news though, it turns out the fictitious explosion didn't affect half their vessels as they had been left on trailers in the town car park

Good analysis.

You are having a laugh MH, read what he actually wrote.
A good analysis would have a sound basis in facts not mixed up fiction like he presents.

[MH]

You are having a laugh MH, read what he actually wrote.
A good analysis would have a sound basis in facts not mixed up fiction like he presents.

He is generally correct.
The point about Egypt that you outlined is simply not relevant in the big picture.
We all know that Israeli-Egyptian relation had been very colorful.
I remember discussing "what if" of government change in Egypt and worthiness of peace treaty like 10 years ago and scenario was similar to current one.
Still relation with Mubarak had been very solid on many issues.

[Tribesman]

He is generally correct.

Generally correct? specificly very wrong.

The point about Egypt that you outlined is simply not relevant in the big picture.

In the bigger picture you must explore the natural outcome of supporting brutal dictators.
If Canada paid a brutal dictatorship in America to pretend to be friends with Mexico the Americans would increasingly hate their own leadership and the Canadians and the Mexicans. The longer it went on the worse it would build up. The loss of a dictator now is going to be less worrisome than the result of still keeping that situation running.

Still relation with Mubarak had been very solid on many issues.
The only thing really solid was his bank accounts

[MH]

In the bigger picture you must explore the natural outcome of supporting brutal dictators.
If Canada paid a brutal dictatorship in America to pretend to be friends with Mexico the Americans would increasingly hate their own leadership and the Canadians and the Mexicans. The longer it went on the worse it would build up. The loss of a dictator now is going to be less worrisome than the result of still keeping that situation running.


The only thing really solid was his bank accounts

Still its irrelevant.
Egypt was ruled by military or dictators through all its modern history on Soviet side or American.
Democracy in western sense was never an serious topic there-the issue was more of Arab pride or pan Arabian domination.
Asking question why democracy hasn't evolved there like in the west not relevant to this topic.
Its more relevant to theological discussion about culture and history of ME.

[Skybird]

Israeli-Egyptian relations go back longer than just to Mubarak. The name to mention is Sadat who knew very well that he was challenging the nationalistic and fundametalist camp when he agreed a peace deal with Israel. He payed with his life for this "offence".

While there were often dreams about Arab greatness, first it were the French under Napoleon arriving in Egypt and demonstrating the stagnating entity that the Islamic world was how dominant and superior the West was. At Napoleon's time, until his arrival the Muslim world was living in paralysis and not realising it, considering itself to be the best of the best because Islam said so, and a testing against foreign cultural conditions had not taken place since centuries. Second, the failing of Lawrence of Arabia who probably were dreaming of the same self-deceptions about Arabia and Islam like the EU today, showed that you should not bet too much money on this thing called "Arab national tribe". A united Arab nation not only never existed and never will exist - it even is not needed in a culture that runs by the ideology of Islam that puts the collective of the ummah above any nationalistic conception of states anyway. The long tradition of corruption and treachery in inner-Arabic politics of course does not help to make things better.

For which we should be thankful. Worst thing that could happen to us is a real unification and united challenge set up by the Muslim world. The West is too weak to stand such a challenge - it already bends under the pressure set up by Islam right now.

It's like raising a beast. when it is young andf small and cute, you play with it. When it has grown up and becomes strong and big, it plays with you - beast games, that is.

[ZeeWolf]

Thanks Vendor, this is really great news,

I think I would be almost impossible now to spin the "Arab Spring" into
a mass movement to establish "democracy" now. After all, the governments
that have been established by England and the US have all been frauds
and the people of the middle east know it.

[Gerald]

Bethany Bell reports on the violence outside the Israeli embassy-

Egypt has vowed to protect all embassies in the country, hours after protesters stormed the Israeli mission, prompting the evacuation of diplomats.

The interim military government said protesters involved in the attack on the Israeli mission would be tried in an emergency state security court.

Egypt is on alert after the attack, in which three people died as security forces fought rioters in Cairo.

Anti-Israeli feeling rose after violence on the Gaza border last month.

Five Egyptian policemen were killed as Israeli forces pursued Palestinian militants.

The clashes at the Israeli embassy, which went on through Friday night, have shocked people both in Egypt and abroad, the BBC's Bethany Bell reports from the Egyptian capital.

Reports on Egyptian State TV said Prime Minister Essam Sharaf had offered to step down but his resignation was refused by the country's military leader, Field Marshal Tantawi.

Under Egypt's former leader, Hosni Mubarak, such violent displays of anger against Israel would not have been tolerated, our correspondent says.

Now the army has to try to balance the demands of its angry people and its longstanding strategic commitments, she adds.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/14864411


Note: Update Record, 10 September 2011 Last updated at 16:19 GMT

[Gerald]

http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/415/11egypt2spanarticlelarg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/717/11egypt2spanarticlelarg.jpg/)
Egyptian security forces surrounded a youth accused of taking part in an attempt to storm the Israeli embassy.

[TLAM Strike]

But more important, Turkey also threatened military force against Malta (that just has lost its only military naval basis in a big explosion of ammunition bunkers some months ago) in case of Malta doing seabed explorations in the Eastern mediterranean, and in waters that the Turks claim to be theirs around Cyprus. Because there is something that you also find offshore the beach of Gaza : gas. I think your confusing your Mediterranean islands Sky. :03:

[MH]

Few minor mistakes.
Gaza or Lebanon its all the same anyway:D

[Tribesman]

Few minor mistakes.

Minor??????

[Skybird]

I think your confusing your Mediterranean islands Sky. :03:
No, the Turks last week repeated their claims for both. They threatened Malta and Israel with military force by their navy, openly led claim for "the Eastern Mediterranean", and of course imply their claim for Cyprus (from which they also may operate). I do not know how far-reaching the gas fields are that were found in the Eastern Mediterranean, they reach from the coast of Gaza/Israel to somehwere in the West and Northwest, obviously.

[Skybird]

Ooops, first time ever I see a brigged moderator! :D

[Skybird]

Oooops, ex-moderator! :D

[MH]

Where did you hear about has near Gaza?

[Skybird]

Where did you hear about has near Gaza?
You mean your press has no reports on it? It gets mentioned in practically every German newspaper I happen to look into occasionally.

[Gerald]

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu has said Israel will stick to its peace treaty with Egypt despite the attack on its embassy in Cairo.

He was speaking after protesters stormed the Israeli embassy on Friday, prompting the evacuation of nearly all Israeli diplomatic staff.

Egypt is on alert after the attack, in which three people died as security forces fought rioters in Cairo.

Cairo says those involved in the attack will be tried in an emergency court.

Anti-Israeli feeling rose after violence on the Gaza border last month.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-14867867


Note: Update Record, 10 September 2011 Last updated at 20:35 GMT

[Tribesman]

Where did you hear about has near Gaza?

Forget that, I want to hear about the Turkish threats against Malta and the destruction of the Maltese navy base.

[Jimbuna]

Forget that, I want to hear about the Turkish threats against Malta and the destruction of the Maltese navy base.

Here you go...The Great Siege of Malta:

http://www.reformationsa.org/articles/The%20Great%20Siege%20of%20Malta.htm

:03:

[MH]

Forget that, I want to hear about the Turkish threats against Malta and the destruction of the Maltese navy base.

You mean ammunition explosion on cyprus i guess?

You mean your press has no reports on it? It gets mentioned in practically every German newspaper I happen to look into occasionally

Well ... not really.
There are supposedly a small gas field near Gaza and some smaller ones which are not economically worth development but its not real issue here.
There had been many report about possible finds which turned out to be economically risky till the one to the north.
There is only one small gas field which Israel exploits.


Run some Google -Israeli economic newspaper has a mention of possible development of Gaza gas in face of crisis with Egypt but ...nothing serious.
There is also issue of the money funding terror.

[nikimcbee]

These guys seem to be forgetting what happened the last time they picked a fight with Israel.:hmmm: I guess the IAF could use some live target practice.:haha:

[Tribesman]

You mean ammunition explosion on cyprus i guess?

Ask Sky, it was pointed out that he was getting confused but as usual he is saying he is still right so there must be some secret explosions and secret threats that no one else has heard about.

[mapuc]

These guys seem to be forgetting what happened the last time they picked a fight with Israel.:hmmm: I guess the IAF could use some live target practice.:haha:

If, there would be a war between Israel and Egypt. It would not be a 1973 war. A war between western technologies and russian technologies

After the peacetreaty, Egypt became a good friend to USA and have bought lots of military technologies.

So it would be a very modern warfare, where both having modern fighters and up-to-date weaponary.

Me, my self, sincerely hope, that there will be peace in this area. I know that 99% of the population down there, don't have problems living with each other.

Markus

[Krauter]

Gaza or Lebanon its all the same anyway:D

Hey hey hey.

My grandparents are Lebanese and I know they'd take offence.

[MH]

Hey hey hey.

My grandparents are Lebanese and I know they'd take offence.
Probably they would....
Lebanon was a country with a lot potential but sadly fell victim to ME reality.:damn:

[TLAM Strike]

These guys seem to be forgetting what happened the last time they picked a fight with Israel.:hmmm: I guess the IAF could use some live target practice.:haha:
The last time they weren't flying the same planes.

Today their Army and Air Force are just about matched in technology and numbers. The Israeli Navy has better ships but far fewer of them, Egypt had 11 major combatants vs 3; most of Egypt's warships are ASW ships countering the Israeli Navy's one strength.

[nikimcbee]

The last time they weren't flying the same planes.

Today their Army and Air Force are just about matched in technology and numbers. The Israeli Navy has better ships but far fewer of them, Egypt had 11 major combatants vs 3; most of Egypt's warships are ASW ships countering the Israeli Navy's one strength.

Didn't seem to matter much the last time.:haha:

[Torplexed]

If, there would be a war between Israel and Egypt, It would not be a 1973 war. A war between western technologies and russian technologies.

If I recall, even 1973 was a shock to the Israelis, after the rout they delivered to the Arabs in the '67 war. The Egyptian inflicted quite a few setbacks on the counter-attacking IDF armor and aircraft in the first few days of the Yom Kippur War with the Sagger missiles and the SAM umbrella. It was when the Egyptians attempted to exploit their initial success and moved into the open that things begin to go awry for them.

[mapuc]

If I recall, even 1973 was a shock to the Israelis, after the rout they delivered to the Arabs in the '67 war. The Egyptian inflicted quite a few setbacks on the counter-attacking IDF armor and aircraft in the first few days of the Yom Kippur War with the Sagger missiles and the SAM umbrella. It was when the Egyptians attempted to exploit their initial success and moved into the open that things begin to go awry for them.

True indeed. I forgot about that. I use to tell people that, when they say that Israel beat Egypt real good in 1973 war.

However, a war today, would be a war between two combatants that's equal in technologies.

And if I do not remember it wrong, the israel had to fight it's enemies on 3 different fronts.

I have tried to speculate on how a future war between Israel on the one side and Egypt, Turkey, on the other side. In my "brainstorm" Iran and syria came to be involved in this conflict. Then I stopped "brainstorming"

Cause, in some situations I came to a point, where Israel was threaten upon it's survival and the question in this case is:
Would a country that have neuclearbombs, us them??

Markus

[August]

The Israeli equipment wasn't all that much better. The big difference was the Israelis were fighting for their survival and the Arabs weren't.

[Skybird]

Israel'S strategic position has become incredibly difficult. Hamas and Hezbollah being armed to the teeth with modern missiles and massive bunkers. Ties with Turkey deleted. Syria hostile, cooperating with N-Korea. Egypt turning hostile. Lebanon an assembly area for Iran. Iran turning nuclear. Military high-tech being spread. The Palestinians. Growing share of Arabs in internal Israeli population. Demographic long-term problems. And I bet money on a nuclear arms race in the region, started by Iran, followed by Saudi-Arabia, Turkey, Egypt.

You cannot hold out forever when being challenged on so many fronts. Fighting it must, what else can it do? Supporting it we must, what else would be the morally right thing to do?

But in the long run I don't see it winning.

[Tribesman]

You cannot hold out forever when being challenged on so many fronts. Fighting it must, what else can it do? Supporting it we must, what else would be the morally right thing to do?

But in the long run I don't see it winning.
That makes no sense.:doh:

[TLAM Strike]

Israel'S strategic position has become incredibly difficult.

You cannot hold out forever when being challenged on so many fronts. Fighting it must, what else can it do?

"Throw your soldiers into positions whence there is no escape, and they will prefer death to flight. If they will face death, there is nothing they may not achieve."