View Full Version : No clergy at 9/11=Terrorist Victory
I could not be more outraged, that politcians can either make this about themselves or give the terrorist a high five. Won't want to offend, Islamic terrorist on what must be their most holiest place on earth. I can't wait for 2012 to vote these liberals out of office, where it will take a couple of generations before one becomes a dog catcher.
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5619/doublefacepalmpicardrik.jpg
Sure, because everybody killed on 9/11 was a bible-thumping Christian and would have wanted fundie agendas paraded publically to commemorate them :roll:
Some mark of respect that would be.
Torplexed
09-03-11, 07:55 PM
I could not be more outraged, that politicions can either make this about themselves or give the terrorist a high five.
Politicions? :06: Are those some form of undiscovered ions found only in government?
the_tyrant
09-03-11, 07:55 PM
do you have a link to a news story about this?
gimpy117
09-03-11, 07:55 PM
I really hope OP is drunk...
Madox58
09-03-11, 08:08 PM
Saying a prayer 10 years after the fact is a little late.
Better to take a few involved and hanging them in a way that they die very slowly and publicly.
Once they scream in agony and beg for mercy?
I doubt they get any Virgins where we send them.
do you have a link to a news story about this?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/09/02/911-memorial-ceremony-clergy-ban_n_945849.html and I would rather be troll than drone any day, maybe one those real nasty battle trolls.
NeonSamurai
09-03-11, 08:54 PM
I really hope OP is drunk...
Off hand I would say no probably not.
Sure, because everybody killed on 9/11 was a bible-thumping Christian and would have wanted fundie agendas paraded publically to commemorate them :roll:
Some mark of respect that would be. Well did you even stop to think, it might give some comfort to the families.
Anthony W.
09-03-11, 08:58 PM
I love the Huffington Post
CaptainHaplo
09-03-11, 09:02 PM
Sure, because everybody killed on 9/11 was a bible-thumping Christian and would have wanted fundie agendas paraded publically to commemorate them :roll:
Some mark of respect that would be.
CCIP - since when does "clergy" equate to "bible thumping fundies"? Clergy is a term that applies to Xtian and non-Xtian religious leaders equally. A muslim imam would be considered clergy. As would a rabbi, etc.
There has been enough "singling out" of Xtianity in this forum for negativity. Lets not take something that is not just about Xtianity and use it as a way to attack a faith that many millions of people adhere to.
Politicions? :06: Are those some form of undiscovered ions found only in government?
thanks for the spell check I was about to get to that, have you ever considered working for ABC news
http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/5619/doublefacepalmpicardrik.jpg
That's Mister Pyscho Path Troll Skin and don't you ever forget it !!!!!!!:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:
CaptainHaplo
09-03-11, 09:46 PM
That's Mister Pyscho Path Troll Skin Mutha F er and don't you ever forget it !!!!!!!:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:
Language.
All the rolling laughs don't matter - there is no cause for that kind of writing in here. If you find it necessary to use that kind of speech in response to a particular person - whether joking or not, do so via pm.
CCIP - since when does "clergy" equate to "bible thumping fundies"? Clergy is a term that applies to Xtian and non-Xtian religious leaders equally. A muslim imam would be considered clergy. As would a rabbi, etc.
There has been enough "singling out" of Xtianity in this forum for negativity. Lets not take something that is not just about Xtianity and use it as a way to attack a faith that many millions of people adhere to.
Well, perhaps my answer was a bit extreme there, sorry about that. I think I did make an assumption that wasn't necessarily fair, and misread the term. I should also point out that I'm not attacking Christianity and am in fact Christian myself.
However unless the clergy presence is multi-faith and low-key, I'm in principle against turning this into a religious occasion. If there is a chance that some of those being commemorated would not have wanted it, I think it's better to err on the side of caution. Things like this shouldn't be about appeasing currently-living members of any faith, but about respecting the fallen. I also think given the nature of Yubba's post and the way in which he mentioned 'Islamic terrorist' suggests that my assumption about which clergy he wants present wasn't 100% unfair after all.
CaptainHaplo
09-03-11, 10:04 PM
CCIP - granted on the OP post and thanks for clarifying.
The biggest issue for most is that while this restriction is being placed on the memorial - the same mayor is supporting a mosque in the area. To many that smacks of not only a double standard, but an intent to be "supportive" of the religious rights of a certain group, while restricting the religious rights of others.
One can argue that the two things are entirely distinct, and indeed they are in most ways. However, removing religion from this event also negates the reality that the attacks which costs so many their lives - was religiously motivated. If we fail to recognize that in the memorial - especially after allowing the religion in question to exist in the area - we do a huge dishonor to the fallen. We would remember that they died - while failing to remember WHY they died.
I think you're right in that there's a whole layer of nasty politics over common sense there anyway, and it's not that I think any way that this ceremony could be be run would please everybody. It's also nothing but empty political correctness to deny that religion played a role in the attacks that day. But at the same time I'm pretty sure more than one muslim person worked at the WTC and area that day, and more than one of them was killed just the same as a member of any other religion.
I think the bottom line is that using the 9/11 anniversary to underline divisions in American society instead of commemorating the real victims and is a disservice to everyone. In fact I fell for that trap myself when I went off on the 'fundies' - just an example of what that sort of polar division does, I guess.
You know the good book says, that we have to forgive, if we are to receive, I'm cool with all, Muslims included, faithes being there, what I'm not cool with, is some public servant thinking he is going to keep God out of it. We The People, One Nation Under God.
gimpy117
09-03-11, 10:27 PM
Off hand I would say no probably not.
well too bad. otherwise i'd forgive him, disregard and move on
CaptainMattJ.
09-04-11, 12:39 AM
You know the good book says, that we have to forgive, if we are to receive, I'm cool with all, Muslims included, faithes being there, what I'm not cool with, is some public servant thinking he is going to keep God out of it. We The People, One Nation Under God.
im not all that cool with god being included. Why include religion? its another excuse to attack people and get attacked emotionally and, in this case, physically. it wasnt solely religious. It was mostly political statements and attacks. They hated America, and it involvement in their regime. They just used Islam to more easily convince people to die for their own gains.
i think religion should be left at home and at church. People seem to take religion everywhere and want to put in into everything.
we shouldnt be united under god, and the phrase was instituted when religion was still very dominant. We should be united in our common goals and morals, not god. If people havent figured it out by now, your god is not going to save you on this earth. You must save yourself.
I also believe that, in all honesty, people should think about when to talk freely about their religion. Speaking so commonly as if everyone is religious or of the same religion would be a waste of breath. unless someone is directly addressing a specific faith, people should just speak in a neutral state about morals or what have you.
Im not saying you were in error or should change your text, but "the good book" and its morals are more common sense then anything else, and should be addressed casually. I too think we should forgive and move on, but from a neutral standpoint
This is just my thoughts. Not necessarily saying that you did anything wrong and am not addressing you directly, but those are just my thoughts.
Tribesman
09-04-11, 02:32 AM
I really hope OP is drunk...
No, these post have become more frequent when he stopped being drunk all the time.
since when does "clergy" equate to "bible thumping fundies"?
When it is about bible thumping fundies....like in this case.
Clergy is a term that applies to Xtian and non-Xtian religious leaders equally. A muslim imam would be considered clergy. As would a rabbi, etc.
Indeed, can you spot which clergy are objecting in the article?
I wonder what the rabbi in the article says?
'Which faiths should be represented, which are not represented, how does one include everyone?'"
The rabbi hits the nail on the head, equality for all religions pseudo religions and non religious.
Allow all or allow non.
Since allowing all would turn the remembrance ceremony into a three day freak show then they must allow non, all that is needed for inclusion is the moment of private reflection....... just like it has been ever since the tragedy.
I think I did make an assumption that wasn't necessarily fair, and misread the term.
Not at all CCIP. Think again.
Look at the groups involved , it is mainstream fundynuts which are on there, some of those "christian" tosspots should be specificly banned from going anywhere near any 9/11 commemoration after the vile hate filled bile they spewed about that tragic day as it is an insult to the victims and their families.
After all who in their right minds would want some idiot at a ceremony for victims of terrorism who claims terrorism is a punishment for tolerating poofs and pagans?
AVGWarhawk
09-04-11, 06:07 AM
Look at the groups involved , it is mainstream fundynuts which are on there, some of those "christian" tosspots should be specificly banned from going anywhere near any 9/11 commemoration after the vile hate filled bile they spewed about that tragic day as it is an insult to the victims and their families.
After all who in their right minds would want some idiot at a ceremony for victims of terrorism who claims terrorism is a punishment for tolerating poofs and pagans?
Did I miss the article stating Jerehmiah Wright was attending and keynote speaker? Terry Jones will warm the place with book burnings?
Allow all or allow non.
I would venture allowing none is the best path to take. Let everyone involved do their own thing in their own way privately. That should shut everyone up. In fact, why not just all stand silent for a hour then go on home? Now everyone is happy. Why not just skip it? If we can't represent all views/affiliations in this great melting pot why bother at all?
Skybird
09-04-11, 07:21 AM
I for once will be happy once the whole mambo-jambo is over. Since weeks, since mid-summer I need to see the planes-into-tower pics and scenes several times a day again, whenever I enter the web and go to a newspaper site, or weatch TV news. I wish I would get a dollar for every time I see it.
It's getting pretty much a worn out a shoe.
Also, it contributes plenty to the intention of terrorism, which is two-fold: to terrorise, and to gain public mass attention. Whenever the pics are on TV, the Al Quaeda team scores one more goal. Additional to the insane costs they have made us to spend due to their actrion: several trillions. Economically seen, calculating own investment versus losses of the enemy, Osama scored the biggest victory in human history, probably.
Still want to run a TV show about it? The tenth anniversary activities going on - are like an Al Quaeda-favouring charity event. They cannot wish for much more, can they.
I for once will be happy once the whole mambo-jambo is over. Since weeks, since mid-summer I need to see the planes-into-tower pics and scenes several times a day again, whenever I enter the web and go to a newspaper site, or weatch TV news. I wish I would get a dollar for every time I see it.
It's getting pretty much a worn out a shoe.
I do tend to agree.
AVGWarhawk
09-04-11, 08:21 AM
You make a good point Skybird.
Islamic terrorist on what must be their most holiest place on earth
Since when did ground0 become a muslim holy place? (or a 'holy place' for that matter?)
For all the assumptions of religious terrorists everywhere, thinking that the former site of the WTC is somehow more holy than say, the 'sacred mosque', or the 'mosque of the prophet', or the 'farthest mosque' in jerusalem, is not only an insulting thing to direct from one who professes religious belief to another who has their own faith, but also demonstrates an astounding level of deliberate ignorance.
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
Oh, I predict a lot of hot air against Europeans before long.
Let's not forget guys that this is a very delicate subject for most Americans, who are a predominant force on this board...so let's not derail this thread into a flame war, even if the OP is...yeah...
mookiemookie
09-04-11, 09:26 AM
I for once will be happy once the whole mambo-jambo is over. Since weeks, since mid-summer I need to see the planes-into-tower pics and scenes several times a day again, whenever I enter the web and go to a newspaper site, or weatch TV news. I wish I would get a dollar for every time I see it.
It's getting pretty much a worn out a shoe.
Also, it contributes plenty to the intention of terrorism, which is two-fold: to terrorise, and to gain public mass attention. Whenever the pics are on TV, the Al Quaeda team scores one more goal. Additional to the insane costs they have made us to spend due to their actrion: several trillions. Economically seen, calculating own investment versus losses of the enemy, Osama scored the biggest victory in human history, probably.
Still want to run a TV show about it? The tenth anniversary activities going on - are like an Al Quaeda-favouring charity event. They cannot wish for much more, can they.
I agree 100%. It's great PR for them. And i'm tired of this too. It was a tragedy, it was terrible, it was all of those adjectives. But why do we need to go through this self flagellation every 1 year, 5 years, 10 years after it?
Oberon, true enough, but WTC is a cemetery for many peoples of faith and none. What it is not is a place of pilgrimage.
The risk of loaded statements like yubba's is a hint of the row that could develop when, at the sharp end of being inclusive, there will always be some who feel they ought to feel 'more inclusive' than everyone else... and so develop the whole argument of 'who should be represented'.
To my mind, this completely misses the point of people of faith or none, attending to pay their respects to the many dead.
I'd almost go as far as thinking it might be seen by some as a stage upon which to advance their presence, be they religious or not; which is a disgusting sentiment by any measure of decorum.
I see where you're coming from, and I don't disagree, in fact I'm fully in favour of keeping religion away from such heated topics, but I can't deny it is an integral part of peoples lives and it will inevitably find its way into these things. Just look at the Neanderthal Sex Thread (Those are three words I must confess I'd never thought of putting together...but this is Subsim :haha:).
Torplexed
09-04-11, 09:46 AM
Oh, I predict a lot of hot air against Europeans before long.
Why, when you all make this forum so much more interesting? Who wants to be in an echo chamber all the time? :D
If a former Japanese pilot can hold a tea ceremony on the USS Arizona memorial in Pearl harbor after such a vicious war I suppose anything is possible with the passage of time.
http://www.pacom.mil/web/Site_Pages/Media/News_2011/07/20-Japanese-tea-ceremony-held-on-USS-arizona.shtml
Why, when you all make this forum so much more interesting? Who wants to be in an echo chamber all the time? :D
If a former Japanese pilot can hold a tea ceremony on the USS Arizona memorial in Pearl harbor after such a vicious war I suppose anything is possible with the passage of time.
http://www.pacom.mil/web/Site_Pages/Media/News_2011/07/20-Japanese-tea-ceremony-held-on-USS-arizona.shtml
:haha: Well, we try our best ;)
I really hope Torplexed that time will see the wounds of this war healed, but I think it's going to need more time than we will see.
Platapus
09-04-11, 11:35 AM
I agree 100%. It's great PR for them. And i'm tired of this too. It was a tragedy, it was terrible, it was all of those adjectives. But why do we need to go through this self flagellation every 1 year, 5 years, 10 years after it?
I also share this viewpoint. To me grieving needs to be done in private. This has been a bit too ostentatious for me. Some times it sounds like a competition - who can show they "care" more? But that's only one old guy's cynical opinion.
Skybird
09-04-11, 01:47 PM
I also share this viewpoint. To me grieving needs to be done in private. This has been a bit too ostentatious for me. Some times it sounds like a competition - who can show they "care" more? But that's only one old guy's cynical opinion.
To be honest, it is also a bit about self-victimization, too. Huge advantages can be gained from claiming victimhood. Some groups claiming to be victims, forever, gain attgenmtion. Others gain material and financial advantages,m or claim moral superiority becausu they give testimony of injustice being suffered. Then there are those who claim a morally uspeiror stance from their victimhood, demanding the other to fall back and give space to the victims.
In case of 9/11, I think self-justification is part of these intentions, and self-assurance. There has been one war launched over it, another claimed to have been triggfered by it, there have been trillions in financial investments for security, and in losses due to the money missing in other areas, there have been debts raised. There have been laws chnaged and supplemented, security increased at the cost of civil liberties and freedoms.
Just look at the Neanderthal Sex Thread (Those are three words I must confess I'd never thought of putting together...but this is Subsim :haha:).
I must say, I never got around to reading that one, perhaps before I pack it in for the day I'll have a shufty... seeing as you have sparked my interest and all :O:
I also share this viewpoint. To me grieving needs to be done in private. This has been a bit too ostentatious for me. Some times it sounds like a competition - who can show they "care" more? But that's only one old guy's cynical opinion.
Reading your comment brought the following question to mind:
How many of us, here and now, actually know someone, a relative, friend or personal acquaintance, who met their end in the twin towers?
I'm probably airing on the side of hypocrisy to suggest it, but maybe those of us who don't know of anyone, perhaps we ought to leave off threads like this one, for the inevitable crossed wires - what good does it serve?
Other than our vicarious horror at the act of mass murder, there's not much more for us to usefully contribute :hmmm:
Growler
09-04-11, 03:40 PM
Ten years on, and Baltimore is dedicating its 9/11 Memorial on Sunday, 11 Sep 11.
It's made me think, as I've walked past in during its construction almost daily.
How much time and resource goes into commemorating the grievous deeds of the past, at the expense of the future?
At what point do the living let the dead lie?
At what point does commemoration of the past stop, to become a bastardization of grief for political gain?
And then, what of those who do truly grieve, every day of their lives, for one who is lost? What does this constant exposure to their most horrid day do to them?
How do we heal? We must move forward as individuals and as people, as citizens of this world... but how do we not forget the past and yet not live in it?
Forgive me my introspection, if you would. 13 Sep would have been my mother's 65th birthday; it is the first since she passed, and I would be lying were I to say that has not in some way affected my thoughts of late.
CaptainHaplo
09-05-11, 10:49 AM
My condolences to you Growler.
Grief is dealt with individually. There is no 12 step program that fits everyone.
However, shared healing should be done just as the grief was shared. In the case of 9/11, some of the first people to respond were clergy. There are hundreds and hundreds of pictures from that time - from all around the country to little groups at ground zero - showing people gathered together in prayer. The tragedy and crime of 9/11 were brought about by fanatical, religious zealots. Yet religion was also part of the process of dealing with the pain of the event to millions.
To have a memorial that refuses to recognize that religion was a major part of this event - in both ways, to have a memorial that refuses to acknowledge that this event happened BECAUSE of religion, and to refuse to recognize how faith can help many cope with this, is a disservice to any who did (or currently do) turn to their faith.
There is an old saying - if you forget your history, your doomed to repeat it. People want to remove faith from everything, and in the case of 9/11 - doing so removes the foundational issue of WHY it happened - and thus it becomes an empty lesson in the history books.
For those who actually read the huffington post (which is not known to be in the "center") and claim this is all about "fundy" xtianity, note the following:
Land of the Southern Baptist Convention said there should be a "Catholic priest, Protestant minister, rabbi and imam."
Yes - thats Richard Land, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. The claim that this is only about the Xtian faith is thus disproven. Of course, some won't accept the facts, because they don't fit their hatred for people of faith.
Le **** hits the fan in 3.. 2.. 1..
Sailor Steve
09-05-11, 11:06 AM
Yep, and it's aimed at you for the language thing again.
Yep, and it's aimed at you for the language thing again.
Oh noes! I better censor it quickly! :o
Oh wait.. it is already. :smug:
Sailor Steve
09-05-11, 11:20 AM
Oh noes! I better censor it quickly! :o
Oh wait.. it is already. :smug:
Did you miss the recent discussion on this? If what you meant is obvious then it doesn't make it better.
Armistead
09-05-11, 11:22 AM
Ah, seems religious fanatics want to continue the war of Islam against Christianity. I have no doubt much of Islam does this, but what I fear is the growing numbers of Christians and politicians that would also make this a war of our God versus your God. We simply become no better than them.
The many events should be right vs wrong. If we can't step above religion and deal with life based on those principles we're in danger of losing what we stand for as a nation.
mookiemookie
09-05-11, 11:26 AM
The terrorists have indeed won.
From 2004:
The Arabic-language network Al-Jazeera released a full transcript Monday of the most recent videotape from Osama bin Laden in which the head of al Qaeda said his group's goal is to force America into bankruptcy.
Al-Jazeera aired portions of the videotape Friday but released the full transcript of the entire tape on its Web site Monday.
"We are continuing this policy in bleeding America to the point of bankruptcy. Allah willing, and nothing is too great for Allah," bin Laden said in the transcript.
He said the mujahedeen fighters did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan in the 1980s, "using guerrilla warfare and the war of attrition to fight tyrannical superpowers."
"We, alongside the mujahedeen, bled Russia for 10 years until it went bankrupt and was forced to withdraw in defeat," bin Laden said.
He also said al Qaeda has found it "easy for us to provoke and bait this administration."
"All that we have to do is to send two mujahedeen to the furthest point east to raise a piece of cloth on which is written al Qaeda, in order to make generals race there to cause America to suffer human, economic and political losses without their achieving anything of note other than some benefits for their private corporations," bin Laden said.
http://articles.cnn.com/2004-11-01/world/binladen.tape_1_al-jazeera-qaeda-bin?_s=PM:WORLD
Every time the TSA puts someone through a pornoscanner in an airport, the terrorists have won. Every time some two bit cop uses the phrase "in a post 9/11 world" to justify their power grabs, the terrorists have won. Every time a school kid is crammed into a classroom with 50 other kids because budget cuts have led to teacher layoffs, the terrorists have won.
Every time the TSA puts someone through a pornoscanner in an airport, the terrorists have won. Every time some two bit cop uses the phrase "in a post 9/11 world" to justify their power grabs, the terrorists have won. Every time a school kid is crammed into a classroom with 50 other kids because budget cuts have led to teacher layoffs, the terrorists have won.
every time something blows up and people are killed terrorism has won because terrorism has not won.
NeonSamurai
09-05-11, 11:51 AM
Yes - thats Richard Land, president of the Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission of the Southern Baptist Convention. The claim that this is only about the Xtian faith is thus disproven. Of course, some won't accept the facts, because they don't fit their hatred for people of faith.
Aside from the christian weighting (catholic & protestant) in that, there are huge problems with this. First off, exactly which sect of protestantism would it be (there are piles of variations, many are quite hostile to each other)? Also I am sure there are people who died in the attack who were not of a Judeo-Christian faith... what about them? Should we not include every possible faith then? If so then things turn into a real sideshow circus (have fun with all the different Hindi sects).
What about those who do not have a faith? They died there too, why should their grave be turned into shrine about something they did not believe in?
Frankly I think the fairest choice of all is to keep religion out of this. If individual churches and other places of worship wish to do something, let them as that is the place to do it, but I don't think it should be a part of official commemorations (I am not very much in favor of the whole thing to begin with).
Tribesman
09-05-11, 12:04 PM
and claim this is all about "fundy" xtianity, note the following
So you have an evangelical biblical literalist:hmmm: sounds pretty fundy.
Hey isn't he from the same grouping as that other Xtian in the article, the one that says terrorism is about poofs, and that other one who says charlies angels is the work of the devil(he might have a point there),
hey what flavour are the fundy nuts in the article that claim the media is anti christian because it is run by the jews?
The claim that this is only about the Xtian faith is thus disproven.
:har::har::har::har::har::har:
What was claimed what was disproven? nothing:yawn:
Of course, some won't accept the facts
facts????????
because they don't fit their hatred for people of faith.
errrr...if the commentary is supposedly only about christians how does that match to the people of faith claim?:doh:
a "Catholic priest, Protestant minister, rabbi and imam."
A guy walked into a bar......
But hey lets look at the issue, a catholic...what sort? a protestant....wow big category which one?....a rabbi ...any flavour in particular ? an iman....so many sects to choose from?
Damn that including religion gets complicated for all the people of different faith.:yep:
http://www.streetsmartlanguagelearning.com/files/hammer_time.png
Tribesman
09-05-11, 12:22 PM
Come on Oberon, one of those people in the article objecting happens to complain that there is a war on christianty, he is a good "christian" and shares good "christian" values with decent "christian" groups....he even paid the KKK so he could use their membership mailing lists:yep:
Nice people eh?
Come on Oberon, one of those people in the article objecting happens to complain that there is a war on christianty, he is a good "christian" and shares good "christian" values with decent "christian" groups....he even paid the KKK so he could use their membership mailing lists:yep:
Nice people eh?
That's getting pathetic tribesman.
So far it had been entertaining though-don't let your standards fall.:rotfl2:
mc pixel
mc pixel-hammer is so sad hehe.
btw, I got around to reading the neanderthal funking topic.... lmao
Sledgehammer427
09-05-11, 12:59 PM
btw, I got around to reading the neanderthal funking topic.... lmao :doh:
had to read that twice
and I always played a little game when I see asterisks. although I know what they mean, I grab a dictionary and pick a 4-letter word at random. Todays word was "beer"
Le "Beer" hits the fan in 3.. 2.. 1.. And thats alcohol abuse.
As for the original topic...nevermind.
Platapus
09-05-11, 01:14 PM
Frankly I think the fairest choice of all is to keep religion out of this. If individual churches and other places of worship wish to do something, let them as that is the place to do it, but I don't think it should be a part of official commemorations (I am not very much in favor of the whole thing to begin with).
There is wisdom in these words. "Fair" can be represented by neutrality. :yep:
:doh:
had to read that twice
and I always played a little game when I see asterisks. although I know what they mean, I grab a dictionary and pick a 4-letter word at random. Todays word was "beer"
And thats alcohol abuse.
As for the original topic...nevermind.
I like this, and I also like your signature. A2A Accusim for the win! :rock:
Anyway, I shall just respond to the topic at hand with one little gem from a man who I have a lot of respect for:
http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2009/10/26/129010573576539740.jpg
Tribesman
09-05-11, 02:06 PM
That's getting pathetic tribesman.
Do you think a theocrat who assosiates with the KKK is a good person to be calling for a change in the way the NY remembrance event happens?
Maybe you are happy to have a "preacher" who paid and worked politically with someone who is a holocaust denier.... but more to the point on this particular topic says it was the jews and Israel who carried out the attacks on 9/11. but for me idiots like that are a real insult to those that died that day, and for those pricks to be pushing their political/religious agenda on such an occasion is quite frankly sickening.
"Fair" can be represented by neutrality.
Exactly, just as it has been in the past decade
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