What's up with the PC gaming industry?

[nikimcbee]

Where did all the games go? I went to Frys yesterday (they have the largest variety of pc games around) and half of their shelves are totally empty. Half of the games are RPG:shifty:, then a quarter were kids games (diner dash, etc), the rest of the games were everything else. They had tons of add-ons for Flight Sim X.
I was looking for Madden 12:shifty:, but they don't even make it for the PC (come to find out)

Five~ six years ago, those shelves would have been near full. Is it just me, or is the PC industry in decline?

[Takeda Shingen]

Not to sound condescending, but I am kind of surprised that you are only realizing this now. The PC side of the gaming industry has been in steady decline for most of the last decade; a fact that has been discussed on these forums ad nauseum. While it is true that the past year has seen this fact become more physically observable on the store shelves, the writing has been on the wall for some time. Computer gaming has become the province of niche interests such as ourselves.

[nikimcbee]

Just venting. I saw the craziest thing there. A keyboard for the PS... Isn't that a PC?:haha:

[Skybird]

Niki,

if you are fixiated on wanting an American Footbal sim, I cannot help you, but if you happen to want a general team sports theme to play with, consider NBA 2K11 (or the upcoming 2K12). It is by a very huge margin the best sport sim I have ever played. Fan-tas-tic. Realistic, with unsurpassed atmosphere and great playability. Never have felt that much like being just one part of a team, and the need to fit in. PES looks and feels sterile, compared to this.

[Takeda Shingen]

Just venting. I saw the craziest thing there. A keyboard for the PS... Isn't that a PC?:haha:

I saw one of those too, and regarded it as bad news for those of us who love PC gaming. If they ever find a way to efficiently add user mods to console games, we'll all have to go out and buy Playstations, as that will be the final nail in the coffin for computer gaming. :cry:

[Respenus]

This is probably also the reason why a service like GOG is actually capable of making money, as people remember that PC gaming used to be GOOD. Although doom isn't all that I see, there is still some spark left...if only the publishers allowed it to grow into a flame, which is not really likely. The wheel keeps turning, it was consoles, PC, consoles again... The PC time will come again.

[Takeda Shingen]

This is probably also the reason why a service like GOG is actually capable of making money, as people remember that PC gaming used to be GOOD. Although doom isn't all that I see, there is still some spark left...if only the publishers allowed it to grow into a flame, which is not really likely. The wheel keeps turning, it was consoles, PC, consoles again... The PC time will come again.

I hope that you are right, and that I am just being my typical pessimistic self.

[Dowly]

Oh for crying out loud, not this again. :damn:

[Takeda Shingen]

Oh for crying out loud, not this again. :damn:

Hey, I am thankful for the opportunity to discuss anything that isn't political.

[razark]

Hey, I am thankful for the opportunity to discuss anything that isn't political.
If you give it enough time, someone will be along to explain how Obama is killing the PC gaming industry, with help from his friends in the Tea Party.

[Arclight]

It's not in decline, it's thriving, more than it ever has. It's just that retailers have moved away from selling boxed copies. The main reason for that is the fact that digital distribution is becoming more and more dominant, along with console copies generally selling better.

They don't carry them because nobody buys them, a lot of people actually prefer digital copies nowadays.

[mookiemookie]

What happened? This is what happened:

http://gamingbolt.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/Steam.jpg

PC gaming is thriving.

[Jimbuna]

Hey, I am thankful for the opportunity to discuss anything that isn't political.

Too right and all of your posts on this thread IMHO are pretty much how I see it as well as being informative :yep:

[Oberon]

Hard copy PC games shops are indeed in decline, if not already almost extinct. However all of the custom has gone online, in fact I haven't brought a PC game from a shop since last year, primarily because a) I haven't been to my nearest games shop [which is about 20 miles away] in a while, and b) because the games shops are now composed primarily of console games. However I have brought several games online, including through Steam.

Now, how you view Steam and buying and downloading games is varied. I must admit, I do prefer to have a hard copy, but that usually costs more money these days, which is a bit daft but I guess it's all about shipping charges and so forth. However...and this is going to bite me on the arse now that I've said it, I have yet to have any problem with Steam, Gamersgate or Good Old Games. Obviously there will be people who do have problems with them, but they should still be able to get their hard-copy games from places like Amazon and perhaps even ebay if they are willing to take the gamble on the quality of the product when it arrives.

So, the PC gaming is doing just fine. Even the niche industry is doing nicely with the Flightsim section seeing things like Rise of Flight, MS Flight, DCS and so forth being released. Then there's Indie producers like Mojang with Minecraft, and you still have the big hitters with Mass Effect 3, Deus Ex: HR (Human Resources?) and the inevitable Sims series which continues to be a top seller. If anything the PC gaming industry is doing better now than it ever has, because of the internet developers no longer need to look around so hard and pay stupid prices to Publishing companies, when they can just release it on the internet. Sure it will get a bit further with a big name behind it...but it will still be out there for people to play, whereas before the internet it would just go as far as a few friends who you can copy the disk to, or perhaps a bit further if a PC gaming magazine picked up on it.

TLDR? Rumours of the death of PC gaming have been greatly exaggerated ;)

[Herr-Berbunch]

De Ja Vouz? :hmmm:

[Arclight]

And then some.

[gimpy117]

I however, am getting fed up with the DLC push. It seems you now need to buy a $50 dollar game and THEN spend more just to make it decent. I Love "Rise of Flight" but I have spent Loads on DLC planes because 777 Studios either refuses or "can't afford" (which is probably true) to make new planes for free.

Out of all the aircraft in the game you get 4 if you buy the game. and there are like 12 of them

[Sailor Steve]

McBee, you confuse me. I thought you hated all things PC. :O:

[frau kaleun]

At this point I really prefer to download games, although I don't use Steam - I bought SH3 and 4 directly from the Ubi store. In the case of SH3, though, I liked it so much that I eventually bought a hard copy from Amazon just because. I may do the same with 4 if I ever get around to playing it and like it enough. Of course the fact that SH3, at least, can be had so cheap these days made the decision to buy a "backup" hard copy pretty easy even if I never use it.

OTOH I don't buy many games and play even fewer than I buy, so I'm not a good representation of the PC gamer market, lol.

[nikimcbee]

Niki,

if you are fixiated on wanting an American Footbal sim, I cannot help you, but if you happen to want a general team sports theme to play with, consider NBA 2K11 (or the upcoming 2K12). It is by a very huge margin the best sport sim I have ever played. Fan-tas-tic. Realistic, with unsurpassed atmosphere and great playability. Never have felt that much like being just one part of a team, and the need to fit in. PES looks and feels sterile, compared to this.

:haha:
It's that time of year. I do own the MLB2k11 and I have zero interest in basketball.

[nikimcbee]

I however, am getting fed up with the DLC push. It seems you now need to buy a $50 dollar game and THEN spend more just to make it decent. I Love "Rise of Flight" but I have spent Loads on DLC planes because 777 Studios either refuses or "can't afford" (which is probably true) to make new planes for free.

Out of all the aircraft in the game you get 4 if you buy the game. and there are like 12 of them

:haha: same here. I think it's their marketing strategy to keep the game bringing in money. I bought all of the planes I like for RoF. I wonder how many people have purchased all of the planes?

[gimpy117]

:haha: same here. I think it's their marketing strategy to keep the game bringing in money. I bought all of the planes I like for RoF. I wonder how many people have purchased all of the planes?

you play? no way. I've got all but the Breueaut ot whatever it's spelled. oh and the 0/400

i bet the old guard mostly has all of them

[nikimcbee]

you play? no way. I've got all but the Breueaut ot whatever it's spelled. oh and the 0/400

i bet the old guard mostly has all of them
I like the early war planes the most. I play once in a while. I'm kinda getting back into it again. What I really want is a good Vietnam era sim or Korean War air combat sim.

[gimpy117]

I like the early war planes the most. I play once in a while. I'm kinda getting back into it again. What I really want is a good Vietnam era sim or Korean War air combat sim.

i wanna see korea actually.

and if you're on I'll fly wing with you any day. I too like the E.III and the DH2

[Anthony W.]

What I've noticed is that people just don't want to deal with the "complexities" of a computer.

Even tho computer games and sims are almost ALWAYS more immersing, people just don't want to take the time of actually setting up a good system

[Krauter]

What I've noticed is that people just don't want to deal with the "complexities" of a computer.

Even tho computer games and sims are almost ALWAYS more immersing, people just don't want to take the time of actually setting up a good system

Well if you think about it, it's almost cheaper to go with a console (f.ex.: PS3 which costs what, 450 for a high end model?) compared to buying an entire new setup for a gaming rig which can be quite costly.

[Arclight]

To be fair though, the concept of a gaming rig costing tons of money doesn't really hold true anymore, and is becoming less so with each generation.

My current CPU cost 250,- at the time, and wasn't even top of the line then. Now you can get an i5 2500k for 200,-, which is both significantly faster than my Q9550 and higher up the ladder to boot. Same deal with my current GTX460 compared to my old 8800GTS.


On top of that, PC offers a lot more; I'd say the higher price for the system is justified. And games are cheaper because there are no platform fees, which is a nice bonus and might actually make it cheaper in the long run depending on how much games you buy.

[Krauter]

I'm definitely not saying PCs aren't worth their weight and then some, I'd much rather shell out money for a new PC then for a new Console, but from a purely gaming point of view, aren't consoles cheaper as a new game system (PlayStation, PS2, PS3 for example) comes out every what, 10 years or so? Compared to PC upgrades being required as games get more and more graphically and power intensive to use? SH5 being one example?

[Highbury]

I know what you mean when it comes to Madden 12 McBee. Yes there are alot of PC games still through DLC but EA Sports has given it up all together.

I played the EA hockey alot more then the football, but back in the 90's the PC version was the premier version and the consoles (which at the time were NES and Sega Genesis) got a massively scaled back version. Worse graphics, no ability to run a full season, etc. Then a few years ago I read that Madden would be discontinued on PC, and NHL and FIFA titles would no longer be developed for PC. So while the consoles got new game engines and features, the PC versions just got new rosters for an old game. For the 2011 year they cancelled all PC sports titles.

The weak excuse I was told was that the PC games are more modable. So someone with year X can download rosters and graphics to make it virtually the same as year Y. Something an Xbox cannot do. I am not sure if that is true, and really it doesn't matter if it is. The fact is that PC sports gaming is indeed dead or dying.

[Catfish]

Hi,
it's not only steam, but most games can only be downloaded, as well the trend for those cheap shoot-'em-up games is heading for online gaming ..

I really miss the lackluster stores and look around whether the new sim has already hit the shelf .. and to carry it home and open the package .. and if god loves me there comes big printed manual with it.
*sigh*

[Task Force]

Now days if you want PC games you usually have to order it off the internet, or download thought websites stores/Steam.

Last time i actual bought a game from a store was when i got Shogun 2 Total war. because of its size.

[Arclight]

I'm definitely not saying PCs aren't worth their weight and then some, I'd much rather shell out money for a new PC then for a new Console, but from a purely gaming point of view, aren't consoles cheaper as a new game system (PlayStation, PS2, PS3 for example) comes out every what, 10 years or so?Never said they weren't. It's just that an argument leveled against PC gaming for a long time is the prohibitive cost. That is holding less and less true as technology progresses. Not saying it's cheaper, just that that gap is getting smaller, to the point where you can make up the difference by getting games cheaper. PC games tend to go for 40-50, while console games go for 60,-. Over the course of 5 years, depending on how many games you buy, it can even out.

Compared to PC upgrades being required as games get more and more graphically and power intensive to use? SH5 being one example?
I still don't understand where this notion of SH5 being that demanding came from. I had my 8800 at the time and that ran it just fine. Yes, older cards had trouble with it, but something like the 7600, from the previous generation, was ancient even then, being released in 2006.

The upgrading is a bit of a mixed bag. If you buy a good system it will last you 4-5 years. If all you do is play console ports, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting it to last as long as the consoles it was competing with at the time. Upgrading is really only "required" to keep up with the latest in PC gaming, and with almost all games being released on all platforms nowadays, those PC exclusives that might prompt an upgrade are few and far between.

I went to my current card and CPU not to play console ports: I'm pretty sure my old 8800 and dual-core could still run Battlefield 3 on the same level as a 360 or PS3. I upgraded for things like Shogun 2 and Arma 2.


All things considered, if you buy a good rig you only "need" to swap out a graphics card after 4-5 years and you're good to go for another 4-5. After that a new PC would be a good idea though.

[Krauter]

I still don't understand where this notion of SH5 being that demanding came from. I had my 8800 at the time and that ran it just fine. Yes, older cards had trouble with it, but something like the 7600, from the previous generation, was ancient even then, being released in 2006.

The upgrading is a bit of a mixed bag. If you buy a good system it will last you 4-5 years. If all you do is play console ports, you shouldn't have too much trouble getting it to last as long as the consoles it was competing with at the time. Upgrading is really only "required" to keep up with the latest in PC gaming, and with almost all games being released on all platforms nowadays, those PC exclusives that might prompt an upgrade are few and far between.

I went to my current card and CPU not to play console ports: I'm pretty sure my old 8800 and dual-core could still run Battlefield 3 on the same level as a 360 or PS3. I upgraded for things like Shogun 2 and Arma 2.


All things considered, if you buy a good rig you only "need" to swap out a graphics card after 4-5 years and you're good to go for another 4-5. After that a new PC would be a good idea though.

Personally I never had any trouble running SH5 on my gaming rig at home, but from reading the SH5 boards when it came out I assumed it had been an issue for a good deal of people. As you state, I've only ever had to replace the graphics card on the gaming rig at home every 4-5 years.

I guess it also depends on what games people run on their PCs. Someone such as you, who plays Arma 2, Black Shark DCS or the SH series requires a little bit more PC power then someone running say HOI series, or the odd FPS. Or is this logic flawed :06:

[Stealhead]

@Nick the best bet you have for Vietnam era is the Thirdwire series of games they dont have the most highly detailed flight mechanics(not acardey by any means just not FSX) but at the same time they are fairly enjoyable to play.

http://www.thirdwire.com/project_sf2v.htm that is the Vietnam one I highly recommend that you get the mod Air & Ground War Expansion Pack http://combatace.com/files/file/10466-sf2v-air-ground-war-expansion-pack-v20-apr-2011-update/ please note that you also have to get the previous packs for that mod. There is also Yankee Air Pirate which you must buy and I do not have the free mod listed above is quite good oh the joy of flying a 105 at 500 knots low and seeing the storm of 23mm,37mm,and 57mm fly all around you.:yeah:(that detail is not in the base game) Oh there are some Korean era mods possible with the series as well there are MiG-15s,F-84s,F-86s,Ourgans,Mysters,Vampires,Meteors to name a few.The mods add massively to this series to say the least.If it flew in the sky for a military from 1940 to today you can find it in some form.

They also have stuff covering 50,60,70 80 Cold War Europe and one covering Israel. Not bad sims for what you get with the mods in particular.

As to the base topic I agree PC gaming is not dead it is just more focused on sales via Down Loads though some like Madden are not around any more I suspect this is because most guys if they enjoy the sports games they have a 360 or PS3 for those and a PC for other games.I am middle of the road as to DLC I gave up on Rise of Flight because of it though for Fallout 3 and New Veags it does not bother me so much.Of course with Fallout you know that you are getting many hours of extra play time and new perks as well as gear and weapons with Rise you are getting a plane that maybe you will not enjoy flying or is not balanced against foes.It all depends on what the DLC costs vs. what I am getting.

[Arclight]

No that's pretty much spot on. :haha:

For gods sake, Arma 2 in kinda nuts. It's only now with the 460 that it's running smoothly. Simulators in general are very demanding.

But yeah, I guess that's a distinction you have to make. If you run those demanding games you'll need (near-) top of the line stuff when you build a system. For simpler games you can get away with a cheaper system and still get those 4-5 years out of it before considering an upgrade.

It comes back to those PC exclusives though. Arma 2 or DCS simply isn't going to run on a 360, so for gaming in general you don't need the more expensive hardware.

[CaptainMattJ.]

The advantages i see in PC gaming are more lengthy than consoles.

Mods
Graphical superiority
Much more enjoyable PC exclusives that are too demanding for consoles
Steam and its insane sales
Less annoying, foul-mouth, incredibly rude and ignorant, screaming little brats
Graphic card upgrades are cheaper then buying a new console, because graphics is often the only thing people need to upgrade as often ( if you have a good quad core and some RAM and a nice cooling system.)
Im seeing many more freebie DLCs or added maps/content for PC game console ports nowadays, with CODWAW, BFBC2, Left For Dead 2 ect.

The ability to easily multitask.
The ability to not have to use discs every time you want to play (for most games at least)


the cons are short

High initial cost.
More Upkeep
More expensive parts that could break or die
some OS annoyances.
Viruses.

The cons are pretty easy to avoid. keep a couple programs like malwarebytes, avast, auslogics defrag, Ccleaner and your computer shouldnt have much problem with program upkeep. And the initial cost is worth it.

[Stealhead]

Not mention the fact that with a PC you can use it for many other purposes such as surfing the web,various photo and video editing programs you can connect with your TV as well.Consoles can do some of these of course but not as well or as easily.

I agree on the ability to mod programs as well this is possible with counsels but you have to modify the system and the mods have to made on a PC.The biggest benefit of counsels would be that they are much more useful for group entertainment if you have friends over it is much easier to play a game on the Wii,360 or PS3 and honestly as a group some of the Wii games are pretty fun.

"Less annoying, foul-mouth, incredibly rude and ignorant, screaming little brats" .......hmmm I would disagree on this one depends on the game being played if it is an FPS the number will be the exact same at least on many PC games most players dont use voice also many games like COd series have tons of no foul language servers all one must do is find the ones that have these rules and enforce them. That is another benefit right there for the PC in most cases much better server control with counsels you have none.I have see guys get pretty foul mouthed or texted playing Total War multi player given that a much smaller nuber of folks play the Total War games compaired to COD games that makes the potty mouth ratio about the same.

[nikimcbee]

I know what you mean when it comes to Madden 12 McBee. Yes there are alot of PC games still through DLC but EA Sports has given it up all together.

I played the EA hockey alot more then the football, but back in the 90's the PC version was the premier version and the consoles (which at the time were NES and Sega Genesis) got a massively scaled back version. Worse graphics, no ability to run a full season, etc. Then a few years ago I read that Madden would be discontinued on PC, and NHL and FIFA titles would no longer be developed for PC. So while the consoles got new game engines and features, the PC versions just got new rosters for an old game. For the 2011 year they cancelled all PC sports titles.

The weak excuse I was told was that the PC games are more modable. So someone with year X can download rosters and graphics to make it virtually the same as year Y. Something an Xbox cannot do. I am not sure if that is true, and really it doesn't matter if it is. The fact is that PC sports gaming is indeed dead or dying.

I play they hockey game too:yeah:. I just wanted the Russian superleague. It's kinda funny, I work with a guy who used to work at EA (he worked on the NCAA football games. So we got swap computer game company horror stories.:haha: