Type XXI diving

[Sandman_28054]

On the Military Channel, the Type VII is the top submarine of all time.

I know many here have an attachment to this boat.

However, I like to upgrade whenever new models become available.

I have upgraded to the type XXI and had 4 missions thus far.

My base at Bergen was just disbanded and now I'm at Tronhiem.

On the last patrol, I came across a convoy in Grid AM72.

I sank an Intermediate Tanker, a Large Tanker, two Whale ships, a destroyer, and a frigate.

While trying to escape, I dove to 176 meters and ordered Silent running.

No matter what I tried, a destroyer always found me.

Tried attacking this convoy twice. (Saved before contact, and re-loaded)

Question: For those of you who are brave and have the Type XXI, what is the maximum depth you can dive to?

This last run, I dove to 196 meters.

[theroc44]

On the Military Channel, the Type VII is the top submarine of all time.

I know many here have an attachment to this boat.

However, I like to upgrade whenever new models become available.

I have upgraded to the type XXI and had 4 missions thus far.

My base at Bergen was just disbanded and now I'm at Tronhiem.

On the last patrol, I came across a convoy in Grid AM72.

I sank an Intermediate Tanker, a Large Tanker, two Whale ships, a destroyer, and a frigate.

While trying to escape, I dove to 176 meters and ordered Silent running.

No matter what I tried, a destroyer always found me.

Tried attacking this convoy twice. (Saved before contact, and re-loaded)

Question: For those of you who are brave and have the Type XXI, what is the maximum depth you can dive to?

This last run, I dove to 196 meters.


212 was the farthest i was willing to go i heard crinks and cranks and went back up to operational depth they still sunk me. 1945 is a miserable time in GWX destroyers ASDIC is so good and the hedgehog is a major pain in the butt

[Jimbuna]

If your using SH3 Commander the crush depths are normally varied but if not she should manage somewhere in the region of 250 metres.

The escorts have usually reached 'elite' status by 1945 so you correct in stating how tough it is....as it was in RL then.

[Sandman_28054]

If your using SH3 Commander the crush depths are normally varied but if not she should manage somewhere in the region of 250 metres.

The escorts have usually reached 'elite' status by 1945 so you correct in stating how tough it is....as it was in RL then.

I know the GWX manual says 210 meters, but I can press it on to 250, is that right?

[Jimbuna]

I know the GWX manual says 210 meters, but I can press it on to 250, is that right?

Try it and see....no pain, no gain :03:

[Sandman_28054]

Try it and see....no pain, no gain :03:

What have I got to lose.

[danasan]

Sandman, going deep and silent isn't the whole thing, did you read this?

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=395451&postcount=1

There are some nice tips in that post...

[PacificWolf]

I "Closed THe Clock" on Type XXI maximum dive i have reached its 275 meters after this depth i start to recieving messages hull damaged etc.

[Jimbuna]

What have I got to lose.

A U-boat? :DL

I "Closed THe Clock" on Type XXI maximum dive i have reached its 275 meters after this depth i start to recieving messages hull damaged etc.

Well then...there you go.

[JazzJR]

I "Closed THe Clock" on Type XXI maximum dive i have reached its 275 meters after this depth i start to recieving messages hull damaged etc.

Weird :D because the destruction depth of the XXI submarine was around 330 meters. :D

[BogdaNz]

i got to 280 and it's safe

[PacificWolf]

i got to 280 and it's safe

nice:up:

[Jimbuna]

The data file actually states 500 metres burt I wouldn't advise it.

[PacificWolf]

Yes, its a bad idea.
But you can change submarine parameters but its not historically then.
But i read that modified version of VIIC/42 can dive at about 500 meters, they use 28mm steel for hull to improve hull strength.
Its that true?

[Jimbuna]

Yes, its a bad idea.
But you can change submarine parameters but its not historically then.
But i read that modified version of VIIC/42 can dive at about 500 meters, they use 28mm steel for hull to improve hull strength.
Its that true?

I wouldn't have thought so....their diving depth as designed was about 200 metres and crush depth was estimated at 400 metres.

Problem being nobody ever took one to crush depth and lived to say exactly what it was :DL

http://www.uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

[JazzJR]

I wouldn't have thought so....their diving depth as designed was about 200 metres and crush depth was estimated at 400 metres.

Problem being nobody ever took one to crush depth and lived to say exactly what it was :DL

http://www.uboat.net/types/viic-42.htm

Yep 400m was able for the VII C/42 But no VII C/42 entered service. They cancelt it and build the XXI class U-Boat.

[PacificWolf]

Yep 400m was able for the VII C/42 But no VII C/42 entered service. They cancelt it and build the XXI class U-Boat.

Yep. like a VIIC/43.
The germans wanted to add 2 tubes in front and 1 in the back to make 6 launchers in front and 2 in back but they never build this boat, plans were abandoned in favor of Type XXI. what a shame.

[Jimbuna]

I reckon what they wanted to build and what they were equipped to build in the last year of the war were at opposite ends of the scale especially as how their building yards were bombed day and night plus a serious shortage of war materials.

[PacificWolf]

I reckon what they wanted to build and what they were equipped to build in the last year of the war were at opposite ends of the scale especially as how their building yards were bombed day and night plus a serious shortage of war materials.

Corectly, but the germans point of thinking was no good because when they planned to build type XXI they stopped making other types of U boats and almoust finish submarines were left in shipyards.
I think they can finish them instead of leaving almost done boat.

[Jimbuna]

Corectly, but the germans point of thinking was no good because when they planned to build type XXI they stopped making other types of U boats and almoust finish submarines were left in shipyards.
I think they can finish them instead of leaving almost done boat.

That is true but the war was already lost because U-boat losses outstripped production..even if the materials had of been available.

[PacificWolf]

If type XXI was build year earlier then theres a posibility that war in sea will win the germany but it was to late develop and typeXXI cant change tide of the war.

[Miltiades]

That is true but the war was already lost because U-boat losses outstripped production..even if the materials had of been available.


Production was always the problem of Germany in WW2..

[theroc44]

Yes, its a bad idea.
But you can change submarine parameters but its not historically then.
But i read that modified version of VIIC/42 can dive at about 500 meters, they use 28mm steel for hull to improve hull strength.
Its that true?
Deutsche Werft AG, Hamburg
500 meters is roughly 1640 feet i really doubt they went that deep. Not to mention the /42 never even got the light of day at the four major yards. Deutsche Werft AG, Hamburg, Deutsche Werke AG, Kiel,F Schichau GmbH, Danzig or F. Krupp Germaniawerft AG, Kiel

[PacificWolf]

500 meters is roughly 1640 feet i really doubt they went that deep.

Me too but thats all i read.

[theroc44]

Me too but thats all i read.


i hear ya maybe someone made a typo ir something who knows

[Fish In The Water]

Production was always the problem of Germany in WW2..

Right, that's why it had to be quick and decisive. A battle of attrition was never going to end well...

[Sailor Steve]

Me too but thats all i read.
The problem with projecting a potential depth for a boat that isn't even built is that if you do build it, it may not live up to that. The only way to get a real depth is to test it.

[Subnuts]

I remember Eberhard Rossler's book The U-boat mentions that no Type XXI ever dove below 220 meters on trials, and that the Germans seemed wary of diving the boat below that depth.

Of course, I don't own the book, but I can check it out the from the library to confirm if anyone wants me to.

[theroc44]

The problem with projecting a potential depth for a boat that isn't even built is that if you do build it, it may not live up to that. The only way to get a real depth is to test it.


on paper things always look better

[JazzJR]

Production was always the problem of Germany in WW2..

Thats true, the most important Vehicles came much too late to make a difference. Me 262 , XXI submarine , King Tiger tank and so on.

[Fish In The Water]

Thats true, the most important Vehicles came much too late to make a difference. Me 262 , XXI submarine , King Tiger tank and so on.

Makes for great 'what if' scenarios though... Like what if they had arrived a couple of years earlier... :hmmm:

[JazzJR]

Hm i don't really know. But they would need to produce them in high numbers. And they never did because they were hard to construct. If i just think about the Idea of an Landkreuzer (Land Cruiser) P1000 "Ratte" :doh: A "tank" with 2x 28cm mainguns (same as on the Scharnhorst) , 8x 2cm Flak , 2x 15,1mm MG. Length 35Meters, Width 14 m.

But they didn't had the ressources to build these Tanks in high numbers. If they had them and would have them in the same numbers like the russian T-34 or Sherman Tank they would have atleast conquered russia i think.:hmmm:

[Fish In The Water]

Hm i don't really know. But they would need to produce them in high numbers. And they never did because they were hard to construct.

I've often wondered how the E-100 might have faired if it had made it into production. Seems a fearsome weapon (at first blush), but I suppose the question remains if it would have proven too cumbersome in actual trials - let alone actual combat.

Still, it gives us plenty to ponder, (and what's more in a case like this) - speculation can run rampant as there is no definitive answer.

[JazzJR]

I've often wondered how the E-100 might have faired if it had made it into production. Seems a fearsome weapon (at first blush), but I suppose the question remains if it would have proven too cumbersome in actual trials - let alone actual combat.

Still, it gives us plenty to ponder, (and what's more in a case like this) - speculation can run rampant as there is no definitive answer.

Well the E-100 was just another "crazy" idea of an "perfect" Tank but small compared to the P-1000. They really should have build the Tiger and Panther tank in higher numbers. There was no tank which could really harm these tanks. The most were destroyed by the crew or in fact of a damaged clutch or other failures.

But to be honest, i don't really want to know how the world would look like if germany had won the WW2. I think there would be war till to this day.
But the good thing is that many inventions from the WW2 german military were used for civilian things, just like the first jet engine of the Me-262.

[Fish In The Water]

But the good thing is that many inventions from the WW2 german military were used for civilian things, just like the first jet engine of the Me-262.

True...

As loathsome and horrible as war is, we did gain a technological quantum leap which still benefits our lives today. It seems one of the more interesting paradoxes of life that even something that brings so much death and destruction still delivers a 'silver lining' of sorts.

That being said, I am in no way trying to minimize the horrific loss. Merely considering theoretical possibilities as a world without an Allied victory would be most frightening indeed.

[Olsin]

Theres truth in the saying "necessity is the mother of all invention" .. and if you subscribe to the multiverse theory then Germany did win the war..just not in this universe!
In fact you can take that a step further and say that "did germany lose the war because of bad management or did they lose the war because in another universe they won it" .. The history of light says that all combinations have to be played out, hence...in some universes germany won the war but Hitler didn't see the end...in others germany won the war and Hitler survived to see the outcome..in others there will be combinations of possible scenarios....In some universes Russia won the war and carried on to subjecate the rest of the world......Stalin was infinetly scarier than Hitler!
Would the world have been a ugly place to live in by now if germany had won WW2...i doubt it!..in fact...i imagine it would be pretty much the way it is today..corrupt politicians setting the agenda with the interests of a few determining the lives of billions...We must always remember...The victors write history..not the losers.....Did the allies commit war crimes..you bet they did!!..what was the last hollywood film you saw that depicted that!

Not trying to depict Hitler and his regime in a positive light because it wasn't...theres no excuse for the barbaric slaughter of women and children regardless of religion or race but it's been proven without a shadow of a doubt that the allies knew what was happening in germany and didn't really try to do anything to stop it..Almost every nation has had persecution of the jews high on the agenda .. you just have to read your history books!..

[theroc44]

Theres truth in the saying "necessity is the mother of all invention" .. and if you subscribe to the multiverse theory then Germany did win the war..just not in this universe!
In fact you can take that a step further and say that "did germany lose the war because of bad management or did they lose the war because in another universe they won it" .. The history of light says that all combinations have to be played out, hence...in some universes germany won the war but Hitler didn't see the end...in others germany won the war and Hitler survived to see the outcome..in others there will be combinations of possible scenarios....In some universes Russia won the war and carried on to subjecate the rest of the world......Stalin was infinetly scarier than Hitler!
Would the world have been a ugly place to live in by now if germany had won WW2...i doubt it!..in fact...i imagine it would be pretty much the way it is today..corrupt politicians setting the agenda with the interests of a few determining the lives of billions...We must always remember...The victors write history..not the losers.....Did the allies commit war crimes..you bet they did!!..what was the last hollywood film you saw that depicted that!

Not trying to depict Hitler and his regime in a positive light because it wasn't...theres no excuse for the barbaric slaughter of women and children regardless of religion or race but it's been proven without a shadow of a doubt that the allies knew what was happening in germany and didn't really try to do anything to stop it..Almost every nation has had persecution of the jews high on the agenda .. you just have to read your history books!..


Star trek mirror universe loved that whole niche' lol but yea i think every now and again of the multiverse reality but it seems implausible

[Olsin]

Nopes....not Star Trek although sure, there were probably a few episodes where they jaunted out of our universe and into another but in classic Star Trek style the mechanics of it were all very dubious. Stargate tried to put some technology on it but still came up well short.
Stephen Hawkings though has explained it much better and has the agreement of a large chunk of the cosmology crew...It's apparently the only explanation that can explain some of our observations..
But yeh.....it does seem very unplausible to a general joe H.Sapien brain anno 2011.....I wonder what we'll be saying in 5011?

[Fish In The Water]

But yeh.....it does seem very unplausible to a general joe H.Sapien brain anno 2011.....I wonder what we'll be saying in 5011?

So I guess we can put you down as 'doubtful' on the whole 2012 thing... :03:

[Olsin]

So I guess we can put you down as 'doubtful' on the whole 2012 thing... :03:

Hahaa .. absolutely .. i didn't think much of it when i first heard about it but after hearing Dr Michio kaku's take on it .. yeh .. no way josé :down:
It's just a bit of drama for those that like a bit of drama :03:

[PacificWolf]

How about Gato and Balao classes, they have max dive at about 120meters is there a big differences in hull building or what?

[JazzJR]

How about Gato and Balao classes, they have max dive at about 120meters is there a big differences in hull building or what?

US and Russian Submarines still don't reach the depth of a new german submarine (up to 700 meters and can stay submerged for weeks!!) Maybe it is because the newer generation of german submarines (VII C/41) were weldet and not riveted. Also i think its a matter of the choise of steel. :hmmm:

[PacificWolf]

US and Russian Submarines still don't reach the depth of a new german submarine (up to 700 meters and can stay submerged for weeks!!) Maybe it is because the newer generation of german submarines (VII C/41) were weldet and not riveted. Also i think its a matter of the choise of steel. :hmmm:

700 meters! :o:o
It is a world record?

[Jimbuna]

US and Russian Submarines still don't reach the depth of a new german submarine (up to 700 meters and can stay submerged for weeks!!) Maybe it is because the newer generation of german submarines (VII C/41) were weldet and not riveted. Also i think its a matter of the choise of steel. :hmmm:

I'd love to see your source.

[theroc44]

US and Russian Submarines still don't reach the depth of a new german submarine (up to 700 meters and can stay submerged for weeks!!) Maybe it is because the newer generation of german submarines (VII C/41) were weldet and not riveted. Also i think its a matter of the choise of steel. :hmmm:


Is this a riddle from the riddler i gotta check cuz im stooped?:o

[Sailor Steve]

How about Gato and Balao classes, they have max dive at about 120meters is there a big differences in hull building or what?

US and Russian Submarines still don't reach the depth of a new german submarine (up to 700 meters and can stay submerged for weeks!!) Maybe it is because the newer generation of german submarines (VII C/41) were weldet and not riveted. Also i think its a matter of the choise of steel. :hmmm:
The VIIC/41 was rated for a maximum of 250 meters, not 700.
http://uboat.net/types/viic-41.htm

The limitation on the American boats was partly the construction. When U-570 was captured by the British they were shocked to find that the Germans were using thicker steel for the pressure hull. Another consideration was the size. The IXC could not go as deep as the VIIs. The rating system was also different. The Gatos and Balaos were only rated for 400 feet (120m) but they did in fact survive accidentally going past 600 feet (180m).

[Randomizer]

I would suspect another factor might have been the inherent conservatism of the USN's submarine arm when it came to operational restrictions and limitations. During the Great War, surviving German boats brought home a wealth of empirical data relating to survivability from the last year of the war when hydrophones and depth charges served to drive hunted U-Boats deep to survive counter-attacks.

The nature of the naval war denied such experience to Allied submarine forces so they were governed by post war theoretical safety considerations and not a few significant and high profile submarine accidents. Most British boats were also handicapped by employing non-ferrous metals for major components in the conning tower and periscope assemblies that made them structurally weaker than if steel had been used.

This makes simplistic comparisons difficult since nobody was reading from the same script.

In service Fleet Boats demonstrated time and again that they could exceed depths that had been considered safe limits in 1940 as SS noted. On the other hand, Blair relates that poor construction and inherent design flaws restricted the Type XXI to shallower depths than her designers had anticipated when the captured boats were put through their paces by the Allies after the war.

I think the game is more than generous in the manner that the Type XXI performance is portrayed but using one is still fun.

[JazzJR]

The VIIC/41 was rated for a maximum of 250 meters, not 700.


I know i was taliking about MODERN Submarines. 212A class from Germany can dive up to 700 meters and stay there for weeks because they don't need to submerge for air. :salute:

[Sailor Steve]

I know i was taliking about MODERN Submarines. 212A class from Germany can dive up to 700 meters and stay there for weeks because they don't need to submerge for air. :salute:
Ah, gotcha. I missed the part in your first post where you said "new". On the other hand, while American and Russian ballistic missile subs can't go anywhere near that deep, are you sure about the attack subs?

Modern nuclear attack submarines like the American Seawolf class are estimated to have a test depth of 490 m (1,600 ft), which would imply (see above) a collapse depth of 730 m (2,400 ft).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings

[JazzJR]

Ah, gotcha. I missed the part in your first post where you said "new". On the other hand, while American and Russian ballistic missile subs can't go anywhere near that deep, are you sure about the attack subs?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_depth_ratings

Hmm no idea, since Germany has just one kind of submarines. The newest Generation is the 212A class also used by Italy.

The German Type 212 class, also Italian Todaro class,is a highly advanced design of non-nuclear submarine (U-Boat) developed by Howaldtswerke-Deutsche Werft AG (HDW) and Fincantieri S.p.a. for the German and Italian Navy. It features diesel propulsion and an additional air-independent propulsion (AIP) system using Siemens proton exchange membrane (PEM) hydrogen fuel cellsThe submarine can operate at high speed on diesel power or switch to the AIP system for silent slow cruising, staying submerged for up to three weeks without surfacing and with no exhaust heat. The system is also said to be vibration-free, extremely quiet and virtually undetectable.Nuclear submarines have a really high heat signature and under water it is really good to detect.

The low emission profile allowed the submarines in exercises to intrude even into well protected opposing forces such as carrier formations with their screenAlso the 212A class can dive into shallow waters, where a nuclear sub would already sit on the ground. I think it was around 14 meters at full speed ahead. :salute:

During a maneuver in the carribean, the German U24 (Type 206A) managed to sneak through the American defense perimeter, fire a simulated torpedo barrage at the Enterprise, snapped this picture and surfaced right next to it, making the American Admiral go into all-out rage mode.

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3041/vlcsnap41624yv2.jpg
http://www.internnett.de/files/zielfoto_u24_enterprise.jpg

Another german sub type 206A passed a hunting Los Angeles submarine in close distance without getting detected by the US crew. American commanders on the german submarine recognized all that with sweat pearls on their face.

[Gargamel]

http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/3041/vlcsnap41624yv2.jpg[/IMG]
http://www.internnett.de/files/zielfoto_u24_enterprise.jpg

Another german sub type 206A passed a hunting Los Angeles submarine in close distance without getting detected by the US crew. American commanders on the german submarine recognized all that with sweat pearls on their face.

Betcha that made some heads roll.

[JazzJR]

Betcha that made some heads roll.

I bet so. ;) And the class 206A is nothing compared to the 212A. Even the US is interested in U-31 (class 212A).

[postalbyke]

"You can dive to any depth, once."

[Fish In The Water]

"You can dive to any depth, once."

Famous last words? :D

[Sailor Steve]

making the American Admiral go into all-out rage mode.

Another german sub type 206A passed a hunting Los Angeles submarine in close distance without getting detected by the US crew.
That's what submarines do best. I served on a destroyer and in three different ASW exercises we never won once. :sunny:

[JazzJR]

That's what submarines do best. I served on a destroyer and in three different ASW exercises we never won once. :sunny:

Really?? but the 206A class is a Diesel and Electric engine U-Boat. But much smaller then a VII C sub. :O: So the crew has a lot of room. :doh:

[Sailor Steve]

Really?? but the 206A class is a Diesel and Electric engine U-Boat. But much smaller then a VII C sub. :O: So the crew has a lot of room. :doh:
Well, all of our exersizes were with American and Australian boats, and they might have been nukes. I never knew one way or the other.

Side-note: We didn't do so well against aircraft either. :dead:

[JazzJR]

Well, all of our exersizes were with American and Australian boats, and they might have been nukes. I never knew one way or the other.

Side-note: We didn't do so well against aircraft either. :dead:

Oh than you should do an exersice against a 212A class submarine. :yeah:
Really stealthy, low heat signature and many other toys which are secret.

Hm well Subs need AA Missiles. :D But U-Boats get attacked by Helicopters or not? :hmmm: At least we are using Sea Lynx Helicopters against submarines.

[Diopos]

...
Side-note: We didn't do so well against aircraft either. :dead:

Why? Was it running silent and deep?

:D

.

[Sailor Steve]

Why? Was it running silent and deep?

:D

.
Nope, just low and fast. Zooooooooooommmm!!!

[Jimbuna]

Steve....didn't an Aussie Collins Class get through the ASW surface screen a few years back and take pictures of a CVN?

IIRC TarJak once made a post about it :hmmm: