Map contact turned off

[I'm goin' down]

I am trying full realism with map contact disabled. I have forsaken the Easy Aob mod for CapnScurvy's OTC, although I believe the two mods have recently been made compatible by a fix to the Easy Aob mod. I have enabled American radar from the beginning of the war, an option offered when you download the OTC mod.

The game is really tough. It is hard to find targets, and when you do, you have to proceed via real time. If the contact is via a radar sighting, sometimes radar picks up an airplane. Then you have to evade, which takes more time. If a ship, you have to plot course, then set up and hope you are not spotted. If you are spotted, the target will begin to zig zag. That makes obtaining a good firing solution difficult.

I wonder how many captains play without map contacts enabled? Are those captains racking up quantity in terms of tonnage? That appears to take a LONG TIME. Are there any good shortcuts to the game with map contact disabled other than the Easy Aob, Nigeis 3D TDC (not a shortcut in my opinion), gutted's solution solver program, and aaronblood Mobo (tough to use with map contacts disabled)? If you have some input, I am interested on your methodology.

Incidentally, I started this sim with no background, using auto targeting. I have graduated to manual targeting and tried most mods and supermods. The only one I gave up on is celestial navigation, which got the better of me. I have mastered all the U.S. supermods and OM/OMEGU/Kiub. This is the final step, I hope.

[Flaxpants]

Something I have been thinking about attempting soon also.

You say you have to proceed in real time when you find targets- how so?

[I'm goin' down]

Something I have been thinking about attempting soon also.

You say you have to proceed in real time when you find targets- how so?

When your crew reports a contact, you have to get a bearing and range fix. That involves submerging if you do not get a sonar fix on the surface. You have to submerge to approximately 40 feet. Once you get the target's bearng and range, it must be plotted on the Nav Map. Next, you need to get a second and third sonar fix to plot bearing and range, which is recommend when plotting the target's projected course. Performing these tasks can only be done real time, unless you superhuman. If you use the 3D TDC Radar Range mod, the steps are slightly different, but the process is essentially similar. As far as speed, I calculate it when the target is spotted, by meansuring the time it takes the target to cross crosses 0 degrees on the scope, so this is accomplished in real time. Now, it it is time to calculate range and Aob using OTC, also done in real time. OTC is quite accurate, plus working the slide rule mechanism is fun. CapnScurvy outdid himself with this mod, and it is in the same class as the 3D TDC and Radar Range Unit (I spotted a copy during the movie Run Silent, Run Deep) mod, but the later mod has the advantage of being usable in when weather condition or darknet render visibilithy poor to nonexistant. Finally, you manuever for intercept and attack, hopefully remaining undetected.

Convinced? Now it is time to get back to the Caine Mutiny, which is on TCM.

[Armistead]

It's slow playing for sure, cut the cams and contacts off and it can be tedious. I played like that for a long time, now I mostly play cams off with contacts on, maybe every other patrol cut both off.

I use the radar mod with the 3 minute rule, not perfect, but I can pretty much get close, do my tracking and try to get way ahead. The pain is if you catch a zig leg in which the group changes course, with RSRD this can be about 30-50nms, so the radar mod is a must.

Once I can get a visual, it becomes easier and get my speeds with the scope.

With cams and contacts off, evasion can take hours, you bout have to play real time so you can hear, but it's fun being trapped in the sub.

I would love a mod that didn't show contact icons, but still show sonar lines.

[Daniel Prates]

TCM? You mean the TCM Channel? Some good stuff there, just the other day I was watching 'sledge hammer'. Classic.

I'mGD is right, it is hard to track targets in anything but TC=1x. There is just too much procedure, regardless of the method you may be using. Of course, I usually speed to 8x, 16x or something like that in-between gatherings.

I must confess I use 'no map contacts' only sporadicly, when I'm feeling quite the hardcore mother*****r. :rock:

The way i see it, it sure is top-notch challenging to play in 100% realism, but whereas other realism settings are just plain cheating (like no dud torpedoes etc.), the other two (external views and map contacts) simply improve a little bit your enjoyment of the game experience.

Specially in some mods where map contacts only input info that you collect yourself when it appears on sensors. Basically it is a manual-labour saving measure.

I actually always thought that 'external views' is more of a realism-tweaker than 'no contacts', because you feel tempted to use it to better assess threats. I think that it is only fair to use it in after-action situatinos, just to get a feel of the hell you've just raised. Or in mid-cruise. Other than that, its plain cheating.

[razark]

I like playing with map contacts off. It's much more fun for me, dealing with the challenge of taking data off the instruments, watching a group of "X" marks crawl across the map. Trying to fit a course line to a small group of marks, getting speed from it. Trying to figure out where to intercept. Does the observation fit with my projection? Does the TDC match with the observation? Taking a reading that puts him off the projected course, and taking a reading a few minutes later that confirms he zigged, starting the process over again. I like that challenge.

But it's too damn much work. I hate having to take a reading, and then switch to the map and draw it out, plot the marking. It slows down the pace of the game. I find myself pausing the game to plot the target's location, and leaving the game paused while I go check a few websites, or watch "just a little bit more" of whatever movie I've got running.

So turn on map contacts. I still have to determine and enter the data into the game myself. But I just go to the map, mark the position, wait 3 minutes, mark another position. I've got him dead on with range, speed, and course with no errors. There's no challenge, it's simply a matter of moving in front of him, waiting until he's at just the right spot, and firing torpedoes.


I love this game and hate it at the same time. Map contacts off is a chore. Map contacts on is a bore. There should be some middle ground, where I take the readings, and send it to the plotting party. When I look at the map, I should see marks where I sent the bearing and range, so I can play connect the dots. If I muck up the range or the bearing, there should be a mark in the wrong place. Maybe the plotter lacks experience, or misheard me, or hasn't had enough sleep; toss in a bit of an error factor for him, too. I'd love to have the TDC target marker on the Nav map, or be able to draw on the attack map. Either of those options would open up a huge possibility to avoid what is, for me, the most annoying part of the game.

I would love a mod that didn't show contact icons, but still show sonar lines.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=2789

[Armistead]

Think that mod is for air contacts only, actually show planes when contacts are off. I prefer one that gets rid of ship icons, but you still have sonar lines. Mainly, evasion can take forever dived since sonar has no way of really telling you anything, with lines you can get a better picture and use a lil TC to hurry things when needed.

[razark]

Think that mod is for air contacts only, actually show planes when contacts are off. I prefer one that gets rid of ship icons, but you still have sonar lines. Mainly, evasion can take forever dived since sonar has no way of really telling you anything, with lines you can get a better picture and use a lil TC to hurry things when needed.
You can replace the dots that show the airplane contacts, but it does remove the ship contacts. The line graphics used for the sonar contacts are also used for the torpedo track and PK marker on the attack map, so they "accidentally" got left in.

[I'm goin' down]

I like playing with map contacts off. It's much more fun for me, dealing with the challenge of taking data off the instruments, watching a group of "X" marks crawl across the map. Trying to fit a course line to a small group of marks, getting speed from it. Trying to figure out where to intercept. Does the observation fit with my projection? Does the TDC match with the observation? Taking a reading that puts him off the projected course, and taking a reading a few minutes later that confirms he zigged, starting the process over again. I like that challenge.

But it's too damn much work. I hate having to take a reading, and then switch to the map and draw it out, plot the marking. It slows down the pace of the game. I find myself pausing the game to plot the target's location, and leaving the game paused while I go check a few websites, or watch "just a little bit more" of whatever movie I've got running.

So turn on map contacts. I still have to determine and enter the data into the game myself. But I just go to the map, mark the position, wait 3 minutes, mark another position. I've got him dead on with range, speed, and course with no errors. There's no challenge, it's simply a matter of moving in front of him, waiting until he's at just the right spot, and firing torpedoes.

Damn good summary of the dilemma.

[sharkbit]

The problem I've always had with "map contacts off/on" is it is too extreme.
With them on, you get GPS like positions of your targets.
With them off, your workload goes way up. Not only do you have to conn your sub, you have to do all the plotting and inputting data into the TDC as well, where a real sub had various people doing those duties.

Some nice middle ground would be nice.

I know there is an "Assisted Plotting" mod for SH3. While not perfect, it does get away from the two extremes. I think I've read where it may work or has been adapted for SH4, but I seem to remember issues with it if used in SH4-I'm not sure.

Personally, I play with contacts on in both SH3 and SH4. I don't think I'm quite ready to play with them off just yet. One day perhaps.

:)

[Daniel Prates]

Damn good summary of the dilemma.

Maybe the solution would be removing the constantly-updating contacts.

Like this:

1 - Option 'no contact update' on: you're on your own, period.

2 - Option off: all sensor stations could have an extra button, where you order it's operator to input current bearing (or range and bearing, like for instance with radar). In that moment and ONLY THEN, one single marking input would appear on the map, identified by station and a number (as you order more updates, the following contacts would receive progressive numbers so you don't get lost). To make it realistic, there could be inacuracies on the drawing of the map marker, and perhaps a minimum hiatus between markings.

That would mean only that your crewmen would be feeding in the navigator with sporadic data, which is both realistic, and prevents the boredom of doing everything yourself.

What do you guys thing? is it doable?

[I'm goin' down]

Maybe the solution would be removing the constantly-updating contacts.

Like this:

1 - Option 'no contact update' on: you're on your own, period.

2 - Option off: all sensor stations could have an extra button, where you order it's operator to input current bearing (or range and bearing, like for instance with radar). In that moment and ONLY THEN, one single marking input would appear on the map, identified by station and a number (as you order more updates, the following contacts would receive progressive numbers so you don't get lost). To make it realistic, there could be inacuracies on the drawing of the map marker, and perhaps a minimum hiatus between markings.

That would mean only that your crewmen would be feeding in the navigator with sporadic data, which is both realistic, and prevents the boredom of doing everything yourself.

What do you guys thing? is it doable?

#2 - give the man a cigar for thinking out of the box. CapnScurvy may know if it can be done. Nisgeis may know also.

[razark]

2 - Option off: all sensor stations could have an extra button, where you order it's operator to input current bearing (or range and bearing, like for instance with radar). In that moment and ONLY THEN, one single marking input would appear on the map
I want the mark to appear at the range and bearing I have selected. If I make a mistake, I want the mistake on the map. It's part of the reality. If I report to the plotters that the contact is 10 feet of the starboard bow instead of 15 miles ahead, I want the mark 10 feet from me on the map.

identified by station and a number
And a time stamp! Even if it's taken directly from the stop watch, I want a time stamp.

To make it realistic, there could be inacuracies on the drawing of the map marker, and perhaps a minimum hiatus between markings.
:yeah:

What do you guys thing? is it doable?
:nope: Not without access to the code. Even a minor function change that would just put a mark on the map when I push the send range/bearing button would satisfy me.

If we could have the PK marker on the Nav map, we could use it as such. It would plot the point at the range and bearing we have selected, and then you can pencil in your mark right there. Likewise if we could draw on the attack map.

And I'd be willing to pay the same price that was paid for the original game just for that one bit of functionality. (And my wife bought me the metal box collector's edition when it came out.)


Edit:
It occurs to me that I've seen posts in both the SH3 and SH5 forums that seem to point to people editing the .exe. Hrm...

[Sailor Steve]

I know there is an "Assisted Plotting" mod for SH3. While not perfect, it does get away from the two extremes. I think I've read where it may work or has been adapted for SH4, but I seem to remember issues with it if used in SH4-I'm not sure.
I tried it, and it caused crashes. I never did find out why. I still use the one in SH3.

On the other hand there is always MOBO.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/forumdisplay.php?f=225

[Flaxpants]

Considering the minimal amount of time I get to play the game, this thread is putting me off the idea of turning the Contacts off!

I have been using RFB 2.0 as I'm sure many of you do. The 'Map Contacts On' is made marginally more difficult due to the fact that the target disappears from the nav-map when using the higher zoom levels, meaning that you cannot get an inch perfect fix (you do not get the actual boat silhouette on the map, only the square). You also only get a rough approximation of his position from the attack map.

A minor point, just thought I'd mention it for those that didn't know, which is probably not many of you. :D

[Diopos]

Map contacts off, period.
It prolongs the game's life and cuts down on other entertainment costs!

:D

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[razark]

I have been using RFB 2.0 as I'm sure many of you do. The 'Map Contacts On' is made marginally more difficult due to the fact that the target disappears from the nav-map when using the higher zoom levels, meaning that you cannot get an inch perfect fix
I haven't play RFB. Interesting to know; it sounds about how I have mine set up.

[Flaxpants]

Map contacts off, period.
It prolongs the game's life and cuts down on other entertainment costs!

:D

.

Map Contacts On = More time in the pub.

[Bubblehead1980]

I find map contacts off to be more of a challenge but very tedious in addition to that fact that your crew does not distinguish between radar contacts when they detact them so you wont know if you have an SD contact or a SJ contact.There is a mod that removes all contacts on map except for aircraft.

I find a great compromise for realism is leaving cams off but contacts on.Stock contacts are bit much because it lets you know too much info just looking at them TMO's are all black suares dots and lines and only display a name after you ID them.

The sonar lines counter balance the terrible ability of even the "best" sonar operator in the game to keep track when you are submerged.


Having said that, once in a while I like to patrol with cams and contacts off for fun.Yesterday loaded up the mod the only displays planes on the map and went to sea in Jan 1944 out of Fremantle with Gato Class sub(USS Gato actually) running TMO 2.1 with RSRD. I was patroling the Celebes Sea chokepoint below Davao, Phillippines when radar detected a convoy of six ships with 2 escorts.This lead to a 2 1/2 day (game time) battle(2 days in RL, about 8 hours of game time total) battle with multiple attacks submerged and on surface and several tough depth chargings.The convoy was six tankers(3 large, two medium one small) and two very tough Type C escorts.I had two stern Mark 14's left and about a week later in same area encountered 3 large nippon maru tankers(10,000 tons each) and using my last two fish attacked.The tanker was loaded with fuel obviously because it burst into a fireball and sank in about 15 minutes.

The escort's counter attack was rough, pushing me to 400 feet at one point, draining my battery down to 30 percent (due to constant stop and go runs to avoid huge patterns of charges) the final evasion took about 3 hours real time.Doing so without the sonar lines you get with contacts on is tough but rewarding and exciting.

I made it back to fremantle with little of 54,000 tons down in one patrol.Seven tankers plus a lone merchant I sent to the bottom earlier in the patrol.


Anyway, once you are sure you understand about tracking, attacking, evading without contacts, I suggest give it a try if you have time, its a blast but definitely tough.

http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/jstringr1685/SH4Img2011-08-18_054029_595.jpg


http://i407.photobucket.com/albums/pp152/jstringr1685/SH4Img2011-08-18_052854_833.jpg

[I'm goin' down]

I started 4 hours ago and just sank an Akita Maru with 3/6 torpedoes at 2,700 yds, with map contacts disabled. The target changed course after my crew announced that they had spotted her. I am using the OTC mod by CapnScurvy. During the attack run, I stopped the game to water plants on my deck, watered part of my lawn that looked thirsty, cut up a chicken, preppred it for frying, and cooked it along with two wings and two drumsticks in my brand, spankin new electric fryer. Plus, I cleaned the kitchen and managed to eat some of what I fried. I also paused the game once to review the OTC tutorial re establishing Aob. :O:

Conclusion. Plan on spending a lots of time if map contacts are disabled. Plus, you never are sure your set up is correct because there is no icon on the attack map to verify accuracy. But, it is a kick to chase and hit a target, as you get a chance to see all of your previous experience come to fruition.

[Diopos]

Good thing you fried the chicken and fired the torp because if you'd fried the torp and fired the chicken you would've certainly lost you crew's respect ! :D

The next step down the "map contacts off" path is employing (simplified) variations of actual navigational procedures and TMA (Target Motion Analysis) in-game.

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[I'm goin' down]

ohhh! TMA. Good one.

But you have another reason to use it....sailing around the Greek Islands (Naxos, Paros, Ios, Mykonos, Cyprus, Thira, etc.) looking at all those cute European tourists sunbathing (topless). (Don't think we sailors don't know why you are living in Greece!) The problem is that your Targets are nubile young women. (On second thought, that may not be a problem!) The Motion is their bodies. The Analysis is the binoncular view coupled with cheers from the crew. Hence you are always working a TMA analysis (Greek style.)

[Daniel Prates]

ohhh! TMA. Good one.

But you have another reason to use it....sailing around the Greek Islands (Naxos, Paros, Ios, Mykonos, Cyprus, Thira, etc.) looking at all those cute European tourists sunbathing (topless). (Don't think we sailors don't know why you are living in Greece!) The problem is that your Targets are nubile young women. (On second thought, that may not be a problem!) The Motion is their bodies. The Analysis is the binoncular view coupled with cheers from the crew. Hence you are always working a TMA analysis (Greek style.)

You forgot, of course, the island of "Lesbos", which - if true to it's fame - could provide some more than interesting sight-seeing. :rock:

[Rockin Robbins]

Agreed. I have always contended that map contacts on TMO is the most accurate way to go, if you have a surface radar equipped boat. Their data was actually more accurate than the GPS like plotting in the game because the digital nature of our chart results in binning.

It is ludicrous to give up your ability to track airplanes as well as surface targets. It doesn't make sense that the captain does all the work while the crew trims their nails.You know, you might cross a street with a bag over your head and survive. But whether or not you did survive the foolish experiment it would have no bearing on whether you could be trusted to cross the street under normal circumstances. The most you would get is bragging rights for doing something difficult and stupid.

This game is not moddable to the extent of letting us make needed changes. In a game written from scratch, I would have an accuracy envelope for all methods. For instance, maybe (and I'm no expert here. Perhaps it was actually more or less accurate) sonar ranging was accurate to +-10%. The sonar would get a range, which would be modified by a random number between -10% and +10% and plotted thusly. Stadimeter? How about +-30% if you're good:D But you can see where I'm going: random justifiable error in map plotting. In SH4? Not possible.

So I just come back to TMO with contacts on. It most accurately reproduces the quality of data available to submarine captains. It's not perfect, but neither is any of the rest of the game.

[I'm goin' down]

The OTC mod has an option for American radar from the beginning of the War. Planes show up on radar, but the radar blip moves accross the screen quickly. When I see a radar blip moving too fast for a ship, I dive or get ready to dive.

My problem with map contacts enabled is that the blips never disappear, as they would do if being tracked via radar. When map contacts are disabled, I use sonar to plot the target's course. How do I do that? (See below.)

For speed, first I measure the time it takes a target's bow to pass 0 degrees on the periscope. Second, translate the measurement into yards per second, and third, calculate speed by multiplying yds. per second x 180 (i.e. multiplying by 3 minutes). Gee, where did I figure speed calculation and map plotting with map contacts disabled out? How about Warner Sobe's sonar only tutorial and Double R's :haha: (you gotta love CapnScurvy!) Sonar Only - By God tutorial? If you look, you might be able to find a thread that explains how to do it. (Rofl.)

[Diopos]

The "thing" is to get target's speed vector and range from "passive" sensors (hydrophone or distant optical observations). When you are close enough to ID the target of course you can "stad" or measure the time the it takes the target to pass the "wire" etc. The trick/problem is that when you start getting optical details on your target any drastic change of your positioning maybe difficult. I think that most of the maneuvering of a WW2 sub would be on the limit of the target's optical or radar range (later in the war). In a sense it is classical (pre-modern) "positional" naval warfare. The captain's decisions hours before the final approach may have already decided the success or not of the encounter!

Bearings-only-TMA anyone?

Beerings are on me !!! :D

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[Daniel Prates]

It doesn't make sense that the captain does all the work while the crew trims their nails.

Exactely my point of view. The way I see it, the crime is in that 'contacts on' make all targets appear in "show truth" mode, constantly updating every second, for all targets.

The best way to correct it would be an option where any given contact in sight of sensor could be drawn in the map when you requested it.

[sharkbit]

IEdit:
It occurs to me that I've seen posts in both the SH3 and SH5 forums that seem to point to people editing the .exe. Hrm...

H.sie's and Stiebler's work on SH3 concerning the .exe file has been outstanding. They have breathed whole new life into SH3(not that it needed it. :up:).

They have added so much with their patches. They are even working on some sort of wolfpack patch :yeah:. From what it sounds like, it is not perfect but it has many possibilities.

I would love to know if it is possible to do the same thing in SH4. If so, who knows what some talented modders could do with SH4.

:)

[razark]

I would love to know if it is possible to do the same thing in SH4. If so, who knows what some talented modders could do with SH4.
I'm not too up on SH3 and SH5 patching, so I'm not sure how sophisticated it can be, but with the right knowledge, and some time, it might just be possible to pull something off.

Sadly, my knowledge of how to go about it is pretty close to zero. I wouldn't even know where to start.

[Diopos]

...
If so, who knows what some talented modders could do with SH4.

:)

Some talented modders already have!

:yep:

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[Sailor Steve]

You forgot, of course, the island of "Lesbos", which - if true to it's fame - could provide some more than interesting sight-seeing. :rock:
:rotfl2:

Actually not true, but that's a story for another day...or another forum. :sunny:

[razark]

Actually not true...
That's not nice. A man's got to have dreams, you know.

[Sailor Steve]

That's not nice. A man's got to have dreams, you know.
The reality was actually better. :D

[Daniel Prates]

That's not nice. A man's got to have dreams, you know.

Maybe Operaton Monsoon will someday include such colorful eye-candy in it's next version.

[I'm goin' down]

Report directly to Fred and have him fix you up with his high res desk top photos for the captain's desk. Sailors.... you gotta love 'em. One eye on the target, and the other eye on ... (fill in the rest.):)

[I'm goin' down]

I used the American radar feature of the OTC mod which has an air and surface radar feature combined. The feature is available as the beginning of the war per CapnScury's tutorial. For example, a Gar in 1942 has an SJ radar feature (surface search) with a 360 degree radius of 10 nm, with a reliable search radius of 8.5 nm miles. It also has an improved SD radar feature (air search) of 20 nm with a reliable range of 14 nm. Therefore, radar will pick up aircraft up to 20 nm (reliable range of 14 nm), but will only pick up ships at a range of 10 nm (reliable range of 8.5 nm.) Thus, a radar contact exceeding a range of 10 nm will not be a ship.

When my crew reports a long range radar reading, I turn on the radar. My boat is usually on the surface at this point. I set the radar range to 32,000 yds, well beyond the search radius for ships. (Setting the radar range to 60,000 yds. seems self defeating since the reliable range for air search is only 28,000 yds. (14 nm), and radar will pick up aircraaft but not ships on radar at that range.) If I get no radar readings or a radar reading exceeding 10 nm, I assume it is the radar sighting is an airplane, as it is beyond the search range radius for a ship. If I get no radar readings I keep searching with a 360 degree sweep until I observe the contact. A plane moves swiftly accross the radar screen, but not so quickly that one cannot take evasive action. Once I confirm that an aircraft is closing, I still have time to dive to 40 feet, partially submerged, which avoids damage in most attacks. Also, at 40 feet, partially submerged, the radar unit remains funtional so I can follow the aircraft and decide if further evasive action is warranted.

If the radar contact is 10 nm or less and not moving quickly accross the radar screen, I use sonar to attempt to identify whether a ship has been located. If I am unable to get a sonar reading, I assume it is a plane and dive to 40 feet, where I can await the air attack while I try to confirm if the contact is a ship via sonar pings. Sonar works well at 40 feet as my boat is partially submerged.

I am presently in an area where there are lots of aircraft patrols, so I am evading much of the time during daylight. This makes for slow play, especially since I am also playing with map contacts disabled. I spend most of time in front of the radar unit trying to figure out if the plane is heading in my direction. Most of my "easy" patrolling, therefore, will occur under the cover of night when planes are not an issue. One successful attribute to this method of play is that patience is a key. Taking down a ship becomes a much bigger deal, as you do not get many chances. Also, you better be comfortable with the attack technique you apply, because you aren't liable to get many chances in the several hours it requires to make a kill and fulfill a mission.

I have found that figuring out how to use the radar to calculate whether a long range radar sighting is a ship or plane is interesting. CapnScurvy's OTC tutorial entitled "Using Radar," which is part of the OTC mod download is excellent for getting a basic handle on radar.

[I'm goin' down]

Good thing you fried the chicken and fired the torp because if you'd fried the torp and fired the chicken you would've certainly lost you crew's respect ! :D

The next step down the "map contacts off" path is employing (simplified) variations of actual navigational procedures and TMA (Target Motion Analysis) in-game.

I reread the tutorial by Jerm re TMA. I tried applying following it during game play with map contacts disabled. It does not seem practical or feasible to apply in game, although the theory appears solid. First of all, taking hydrophone readings every 20 seconds per the tutorial is difficult as you have to observe the clock and get the hydrophone reading precisely twenty seconds per the tutorial; second, you end up with plotting lines that are extremely close together at 20 second intervals; third, plotting is time consuming as the boat should be stopped per the tutorial instruction. If you do not time the hydrophone readings at equal intervals, how to do you get an accurate course plot? Or an accurate speed determination?

Okay, I can be flexible. Let's try TMA using a longer interval between hydrophone readings. I decided to take hydrophone readings every 7.5 minutes while closing on the targeting at flank speed. Since the boat in moving, you must pause the game to plot bearing and range accurately. Between my second and third hydrophone reading, the crew spotted the target, so I dove the boat, as the target could change course and speed if it spotted my boat. I gave up as things were taking to long and getting overly complex. If the hydrophone readings are not at regular intervals, can TMA work? TMA is fine in theory, but very cumbersome, as the mapping is not a piece of cake. I would rather take my chances with 3 plots on the Nav Map using the sonar only techique discussed in tutorials in Double R's (CapnScurvy's nn for you know who!) thread for Skippers, and plot speed by timing and measuring the target as its bow passes 0 degrees on the periscope. At that point, the OTC mod can be utilized to input target range and Aob.

Any suggestions or comments?

[Diopos]

Start here (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=179137&highlight=4+bearing) !

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