View Full Version : The Urban Survival Shotgun
Feuer Frei!
08-13-11, 07:01 AM
A lot of armed citizens, preppers, and people who simply appreciate versatility in their firearms are discussing weapons for urban survival. Although its tempting to focus on assault rifles or easily-concealed handguns, you shouldnt disregard the type of weapon that is typically the easiest to buy combat shotguns. In general, shotguns are very reliable, fairly inexpensive, legal, and extremely powerful.
Which is the Best Shotgun for Urban Survival?
A lot of factors must be taken into account when youre trying to identify the best shotgun for urban survival. Dont make the common mistake of overlooking reliability, firepower, range or the availability of ammunition, because all those factors are important. The weapon that might seem to be the best shotgun in a home defense scenario may not be any*where near as effective if youre trying to survive on the run. Lets examine these factors and create the best shotgun for your needs
The Best Shotgun for Urban Survival: Firepower is Critical
Theres a lot more to a weapons firepower than the size of the hole a round can make. You also need to consider what youll be shooting at and the weapons capacity. In a situation where urban survival is at stake, you might need to shoot through a window, door or even a chain lock to enter or exit a fenced area. The firepower equation includes range, capacity and ammo availability because you might be in a situation where ammo stores arent accessible. Taking these factors into account, the best shotgun for urban survival, as far as firepower is concerned, is probably a 12 gauge. It packs a powerful punch and is the most common and versatile of all the rounds.
The Best Shotgun for Urban Survival: The Action of the Firearm When urban survival is at stake, your weapon will probably be exposed to harsh environmental conditions. Too much dust and debris can be a problem, because they can interfere with your shotguns action. Semi-automatic shotguns can get off rounds as quickly as you can pull the trigger, but ammo jams can become more frequent when the conditions are unfavorable. Thats why a pump action model is the best shotgun for urban survival. I know a lot of people who can fire a pump action shotgun as quickly as a semi-automatic.
The Best Shotgun for Urban Survival: The Brand is Important
This isnt the right time to cut corners. Your life could depend on the weapon you buy, so stay away from no-name or discount shotguns and stick with a proven brand. For example, the Mossberg 500 series, the Remington 870, and the Winchester Defender are all well-known pump-action shotguns. They will give you the reliability and power you need in an urban survival shotgun.
SOURCE (http://full-contact.military.com/2011/08/08/the-urban-survival-shotgun/)
the_tyrant
08-13-11, 07:04 AM
whats with all the asterisks?:hmmm:
it almost seems like your trying to evade censorship or something
still, having a shotgun is a great idea
especially when the zombies come
Feuer Frei!
08-13-11, 07:10 AM
whats with all the asterisks?:hmmm:
it almost seems like your trying to evade censorship or something
Fixed. It happens when I need to edit a post afterwards. Bugs the hell out of me, got to go through the whole thing and edit out asterixes and whatnot.
Torplexed
08-13-11, 09:13 AM
Thanks for the gun guide. I'm on my way to the General Store. One stop shopping for the Apocalypse.
http://www.joke-of-the-day.com/files/images/shotgun-wedding.jpg
http://laist.com/attachments/la_josh2/iamlegendbath.jpg
Platapus
08-13-11, 10:27 AM
The best shotgun would be the one the owner practices with at the range. I wonder how many people buy a shotgun for home defense and never fire it?
CaptainHaplo
08-13-11, 11:44 AM
If your engaging in a fairly "open" urban environment at very short range (~40 yds and under) then a shotgun is somewhat useful when used as a "fouling" piece. The fact you have some margin of error due to spread is a benefit. However, the lack of lethality against a human wearing ballistic protection at anywhere over about 30' is a huge minus. At that range your just as well off with a handgun, which weighs significantly less and will provide greater accuracy for a killshot.
However, if your going to use slug "at range" - your losing so much in accuracy (due to smoothbore vs rifling) that your much better off with a similiar sized rifle. Longer range, greater accuracy have its uses.
Now of course someone will start in about "sawed off" shotguns and the life - how they are so much better in knife fights - such as enclosed spaces. Yes, they are - being able to splatter the contents of your opponents entire abdomen all over the wall behind him is much more lethal than a handgun slug in the gut. Even the best of hollow points can't give you the lethality of a super close range shotgun hit.
But the shotgun should NOT be seen as an adequate urban defensive weapon. Its shortcomings are significant in that role. If you have to shoot someone from that close - your likely already dead.
There are better choices for the role. Bullpup models of many weapons pack more lethality at range with higher firing rates, while providing very good abilities when in limited space.
This isn't the movies, and in a real life or death situation, do you want something that is versatile enough to do the trick, or will you trust the safety of your home and family to what looks like it would be "cool".
Just remember when answering - there is nothing ever "cool" in a life or death situation or its aftermath.
Betonov
08-13-11, 11:56 AM
For home defence I'm buying a paintball gun. It's not lethal but the pain it causes from short range should disable any intruder.
Even if he/she is armed with an actual firearm, the pain should make them drop the weapon. If I can't get a first shot, then even an ak-47 can't help me.
http://zoey18.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/fpsrussia.jpg
And as always, have nice day. :yep:
Armistead
08-13-11, 02:14 PM
I use to hunt in a lot of brush behind my house, nothing beat a 12 gauge with scope, modified choke with a double slug load. I actually ran a slug first, followed by a flechette load. .
This is my choice:
The Mossberg 590. .12ga pump action. Extended magazine. Accepts an M-9 bayonet. Reasonably priced. Nothing says "git" like racking a round into the chamber and even once it's out of ammo a 4 foot bladed spear with a solid buttplate is still a formidable weapon.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Shotgun_Mossberg_590.jpg
Platapus
08-13-11, 03:10 PM
Here is a site with some good information on Shotguns for home defense.
http://www.firearmstactical.com/briefs10.htm
Madox58
08-13-11, 03:25 PM
For home defence I'm buying a paintball gun. It's not lethal but the pain it causes from short range should disable any intruder.
Even if he/she is armed with an actual firearm, the pain should make them drop the weapon. If I can't get a first shot, then even an ak-47 can't help me.
Freeze the paintball rounds Mate!!
Talk about pain!!!
:haha:
Or make your own rounds for a paintball Gun.
It's very easy to do!
:03:
Betonov
08-13-11, 03:33 PM
Freeze the paintball rounds Mate!!
Talk about pain!!!
:haha:
Or make your own rounds for a paintball Gun.
It's very easy to do!
:03:
ooooh, good one :D
lemon juice and ground glass :hmmm: that should put the sting into the pain
CaptainHaplo
08-13-11, 03:42 PM
As "entertaining" as such ideas are regarding "paintball" guns and such, you will have to forgive me for not taking a light tone.
In the case of someone invading your home and it being necessary to use a firearm to protect yourself or your family, trying to do so with a non-lethal response is simply increasing the danger that you face.
Simply put - if you feel you have to use a firearm - it should ONLY be in a situation that requires lethal force. You are not a police officer, your job is not to apprehend some criminal. If you reach for a gun, its because a life or lives are in danger, and its your job to protect that life or lives.
Firearms are not playthings. They are nothing to joke about. Nor is a situation when deadly force is required. I pray no one has to face those situations, and that for those that do, they have the maturity to handle it appropriately.
Betonov
08-13-11, 03:56 PM
There's no self-defence in our laws. You kill someone because he tried to kill you, you're going to be trialed for murder. But then again, subduing someone with a paintball gun means he'll probably sue you :hmmm:
Madox58
08-13-11, 04:35 PM
As "entertaining" as such ideas are regarding "paintball" guns and such, you will have to forgive me for not taking a light tone.
In the case of someone invading your home and it being necessary to use a firearm to protect yourself or your family, trying to do so with a non-lethal response is simply increasing the danger that you face.
Simply put - if you feel you have to use a firearm - it should ONLY be in a situation that requires lethal force. You are not a police officer, your job is not to apprehend some criminal. If you reach for a gun, its because a life or lives are in danger, and its your job to protect that life or lives.
Firearms are not playthings. They are nothing to joke about. Nor is a situation when deadly force is required. I pray no one has to face those situations, and that for those that do, they have the maturity to handle it appropriately.
You have good points aside from one thing.
As a matter of choice? Some may not want, or can not own, what We in the U.S.A. may have access to.
A good PaintBall Gun with the proper 'loads' can be a perfect Home defense Weapon for those that can not or will not have a 'Real' Gun.
If you think of the way it could be used?
It may be the perfect Home Defense Weapon!
As We could make our own loads?
Round 1 is a liquid Pepper spray.
Round 2 is a Solid round or two part chemical explosive.
Round 3 is a split container that causes a Glow or light stick once it combines.
Given you could then combine those Rounds to best effect?
:o
I may just patent this whole thing!
Betonov
08-13-11, 04:37 PM
Round 1 is a liquid Pepper spray.
Round 2 is a Solid round or two part chemical explosive.
might backfire if you're too close
Madox58
08-13-11, 04:45 PM
might backfire if you're too close
Maybe.
But I think I would be willing to take that chance with a paintball option
If I could not have a real fire arm.
If your invader is that close anyway?
No rifle shaped weapon is good.
You'd want a side arm such as a 9MM Browning or whatever one prefers.
At that range? I prefer a good sharp custom made fighting knife.
CaptainHaplo
08-13-11, 05:08 PM
Privateer - you are right when it comes to the perspective. Being in the US, my brain thinks along the lines of our laws. It defies logic in my mind that people do not have the right to self defense, though I know that it is true in places.
Thanks for pointing that out!
gimpy117
08-13-11, 05:33 PM
what about one of those semi auto saiga 12 gauge AK shotguns? you can't get any more reliable than an ak action.
Privateer - you are right when it comes to the perspective. Being in the US, my brain thinks along the lines of our laws. It defies logic in my mind that people do not have the right to self defense, though I know that it is true in places.
Thanks for pointing that out! Well that's the difference, of being a citizen or being a subject . A subject is just subjected to stupid sh_t and the wims of their leaders, as a american I believe god created man and Samuel Colt made us equal. You can either defend yourself or be preyed upon, by criminals or your leaders. I prefer the Ithaca model 37 feather light 12, put a slug through a deers heart at 90 yards and it was tastey.
Freiwillige
08-13-11, 06:46 PM
what about one of those semi auto saiga 12 gauge AK shotguns? you can't get any more reliable than an ak action.
My neighbor who is a Nam vet is selling me his Siaga 12 for $600
He helped me build my AK-74 so we had allot of Kalishnikov conversations and he wants it to go to somebody who will appreciate it.
RickC Sniper
08-13-11, 07:31 PM
This is my choice:
The Mossberg 590. .12ga pump action. Extended magazine. Accepts an M-9 bayonet. Reasonably priced. Nothing says "git" like racking a round into the chamber and even once it's out of ammo a 4 foot bladed spear with a solid buttplate is still a formidable weapon.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/dc/Shotgun_Mossberg_590.jpg
:rock:
Urban survival suggests something a little different than home defense.
August, I'll take one of those too and I've got your back. :yep:
Stealhead
08-13-11, 11:52 PM
Any Ar-15 variant will do fine just get yourself some heavier rounds like the Black Hills 77 grain I read in a book interviewing US Army and Marine snipers and they said that they loved the .77 grain rounds so much that they where using heavy barreled as well as standard rack barreled M-4/16s and getting one hit kills out to 700 meters with an ACOG.
One guy talked to the head doctor at a near by medical unit who had examined an insurgent body the guy had taken a hit form the green tip 62 grain 5.56 round and of course it went right through him doing little to stop him then the sniper popped him with an M-4 loaded with 77 grain rounds one shot.The doc said nice kill with your M24(7.62x51mm in this snipers case) the sniper told the doc that it was a 77 grain 5.56 rond fired from a regular M-4.Impressive I'd say for an experienced surgeon to mistake the wound to have been caused by a much larger round.
In other words have a good weapon train yourself in its use and load it with rounds that are effective.If you are talking survival you are going to need a long gun an assault rifle a shot gun and a pistola.Shot guns are good but they are a liability out side there range what if the other guy has a rifle and is over 40 yards away?
MothBalls
08-14-11, 01:44 AM
I want one of these. Automatic shotgun that fires 12 gauge anything, 20 round barrel mag, and even has grenade rounds accurate to 175m.
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/3060624/automatic_shotgun/
...what if the other guy has a rifle and is over 40 yards away?
You need to remember that survival will mainly hinge on avoiding fights. Engaging opponents at range is not conducive to that goal. Better to stay under cover and blow their heads off if they come too close.
Rules of engagement with a shot gun, slugs are accurate up to a 100yards, anything within 35 yards start with the oo buck, 4s, bbs, and the flechettes nails with tails, you all thought I was crazy too find out that you can pack 25 of those little buggers into a shot shell. As a kid I went to turkey shoots with my dad and we fired shotguns with slugs at targets at 65 yards away with a 2inch bulls eye, closest to the bull wins I could cut black at rest with iron sights, my best day at the age of 16 was 2 turkeys, out of 22 shooters. Up till a couple of years ago shotguns and slugs were the only thing you could deer hunt with, where I'm from, and I got my fare share.
d@rk51d3
08-15-11, 04:03 AM
Just picked up an 870 today. :yeah:
Osmium Steele
08-15-11, 08:22 AM
The best shotgun would be the one the owner practices with at the range.
QFT!!
Ours is a sawed-off, to shortest legal length, 16 gauge pump. The whole family is proficient with it and knows where it is stored. Ammo is getting to be a problem now, though. Getting hard to find.
When the kids are all out, I'll probably switch to a 12 gauge.
Osmium Steele
08-15-11, 08:25 AM
Up till a couple of years ago shotguns and slugs were the only thing you could deer hunt with, where I'm from, and I got my fare share.
Iirc, this is still the law in Iowa. Michigan too, south of Grand Rapids.
Stealhead
08-15-11, 10:44 AM
You need to remember that survival will mainly hinge on avoiding fights. Engaging opponents at range is not conducive to that goal. Better to stay under cover and blow their heads off if they come too close.
I agree with you here but sometimes a fight can not be avoided this is the type of situation I am thinking of and that unavoidable fight might be outside the effective range of a shotgun I am not talking about going all 75th Rangers here.A shotgun is great if you are inside a building like waiting in ambush on a flight of stairs but in the open (if you get stuck in that situation) not so much.
I agree with you here but sometimes a fight can not be avoided this is the type of situation I am thinking of and that unavoidable fight might be outside the effective range of a shotgun I am not talking about going all 75th Rangers here.A shotgun is great if you are inside a building like waiting in ambush on a flight of stairs but in the open (if you get stuck in that situation) not so much.
The problem with that theory is you simply cannot prepare for all the kinds of situations you might encounter and still remain mobile.
Yes a shotgun is not good for range but if you go with your hunting rifle you give up the close in firepower a shotgun would provide. Go with an assault weapon and the ammo becomes more difficult to obtain. The AW is also not as suitable for hunting as either of the first two.
It's all about choices and compromises and imo the best all around weapon for most people would be the trusty shotgun.
AngusJS
08-15-11, 07:30 PM
However, the lack of lethality against a human wearing ballistic protection at anywhere over about 30' is a huge minus. At that range your just as well off with a handgun, which weighs significantly less and will provide greater accuracy for a killshot.Who exactly are the people with "ballistic protection" that you would shoot at? I can think of only one group - the police. :o
Who exactly are the people with "ballistic protection" that you would shoot at? I can think of only one group - the police. :o
Not every ballistic vest is worn by a cop.
CaptainHaplo
08-15-11, 08:06 PM
Who exactly are the people with "ballistic protection" that you would shoot at? I can think of only one group - the police. :o
Ballistic vests are available to the civilian population at large in the states. Any numbnut on the street that can afford one (through legal or illegal means) can get one. Drug dealers, bank robbers, etc are often equipped with such gear. If your in a situation where your talking "urban survival", then the authority structure has either broken down completely (meaning no governmental agency, police - etc are coming to help you) or Big Brother has turned on its citizenry. Sure, police may have them, but so can the people from across town (or across the street) that think you have food in your cellar while they starve.
Sure, a good headshot makes body armor irrelevant, but in tight quarters that's a skill you would be best off not having to rely on to win. To win you have to survive and make sure the other guy doesn't. Counting on a head shot every time isn't the way to go when the opponent is that close.
Stealhead
08-16-11, 12:43 PM
The problem with that theory is you simply cannot prepare for all the kinds of situations you might encounter and still remain mobile.
Yes a shotgun is not good for range but if you go with your hunting rifle you give up the close in firepower a shotgun would provide. Go with an assault weapon and the ammo becomes more difficult to obtain. The AW is also not as suitable for hunting as either of the first two.
It's all about choices and compromises and imo the best all around weapon for most people would be the trusty shotgun.
Your have your opinion I have mine personally I feel that a shot gun is to much of a liability you have no choice but to allow any threat to get close to you to insure that you can engage them which means that you have to be hidden you are assuming that everything is going to go your way and you will see a threat before he sees you which cant all ways be the case.
Also I have the preparation way of thinking I have plenty of what I need on my land I live in a rural area on acreage.It much wiser in my case to have plenty of ammo for more than one type of weapon.I will say that if you are going to pick only one fire arm to rely on in a survival situation select an AK47 reliable weapon easy to use handles conditions well can kill from range ammo is very common(must be thousands of AKs and SKSs in the US therefore plenty of 7.62x39mm) better engagement ability as well 30 rounds per reloading vs. 5,6 or 8 in a shotgun.
You can say a shotgun is better until your blue in the face you are not going to change my mind.:salute: Kind of like you take the high road I'll take the low road.
Kind of like you take the high road I'll take the low road.
I don't care what you do. Note the thread title, read the op.
Oh and as far as picking an AK-47, then my AR-15 owns you from 300-400 meters away. My Remington Model 700 bolt action owns you from 300 out to 1000. Every weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses.
AVGWarhawk
08-16-11, 02:27 PM
Get a rifle/shotgun combo!
http://images.ableammo.com/catalog/images/ssi-2009/sm/14175.jpg
:yeah:
CaptainMattJ.
08-16-11, 04:37 PM
you know what they say!
Smaller the gun, the bigger the....ehh you get the point
http://mimg.ugo.com/201006/47719/cuts/meninblacklnoisycricket_480x360.jpg
Call me old school, but...
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/doglock1.jpg
Call me old school, but...
http://www.militaryheritage.com/images/doglock1.jpg
I'll bet those are still in service long after the last AK or M-16 has gone to rust.
Madox58
08-16-11, 06:07 PM
My Survival Weapons chioces are based on several factors.
I have close range weapons at first.
Long range weapons will be 'acquired' as time and situations go on.
:03:
As will Ammo and other needed 'time critical' supplies.
The longer the situation goes on?
Well, I guess you know the rest.
Stealhead
08-16-11, 08:01 PM
I don't care what you do. Note the thread title, read the op.
Oh and as far as picking an AK-47, then my AR-15 owns you from 300-400 meters away. My Remington Model 700 bolt action owns you from 300 out to 1000. Every weapon has it's strengths and weaknesses.
Well I guess we would own each other then because my Bushmaster AR-15 has the same performance as your AR I'm sure.What is so wrong about one expressing their opinion? I cant say that I disagree that a shotgun is not the ultimate survival weapon? Others besides myself did.
I'd just carry a mini gun like in Terminator 2 and own everyone I'd be the survival king because I'd convert it to run of off solar power and convert it to take any from form of ammo.
What is so wrong about one expressing their opinion?
Nothing at all, sorry if I gave you that impression.
My point is for most people getting into a gun battle at anything but close range is a recipe for failure. You can have the best assault weapon in the world but it's not going to do you one bit of good if you don't have the combat experience or training required to use it effectively.
A shotgun provides good firepower, beginners can operate it, shot shells vastly improve the chances of a hit, especially at close range and ammo in general is a heckuva lot more plentiful than .223 or 7.62x39. .12ga hulls are a lot easier to reload too which is another consideration in a long term survival situation.
So to sum it up if I were starting up my post apocalyptic survivors band while I of course would arm any ex-Army or Marines with assault weapons, maybe any ex-cops as well, but everyone else would get either a .12ga or a .22LR.
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