Why Rick Perry is headed to the White House

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/OPINION/08/11/moore.perry.candidate/index.html?hpt=hp_t1


Austin, Texas (CNN) -- As a resident of Texas for 36 years, I keep wondering why the rest of the nation pays any attention to our political and cultural absurdities and yet still chooses Texans as presidents. Our most revered historical moment, the Alamo, was arguably a mass suicide. The slaughter in San Antonio was followed by a massacre at Goliad, the fall of the Confederacy to Union forces, and later by the Houston Astros. Texas has a legacy of losing.

None of this apparently matters, though, because America is beginning the process of electing another Texan to be president. Gigantic tax breaks for the wealthy and corporations, a trumped up war and a ruined economy from the last Texan seem incapable of dissuading supporters of Rick Perry.

His Saturday speech in South Carolina (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/08/perry-to-make-2012-intentions-clear-saturday/) will make clear that he is entering the race for the White House and will spawn the ugliest and most expensive presidential race in U.S. history, and he will win. A C and D student, who hates to govern, loves to campaign, and barely has a sixth grader's understanding of economics, will lead our nation into oblivion.



Well, this is sure going to make it harder to secede. :doh:

[AVGWarhawk]

I though he wanted to secede. Well, more power to him. Currently things in Washington are not going as planned.

[mookiemookie]

Funny how the people banging the "Perry for President" drum the hardest don't live in Texas.

[nikimcbee]

So Neal, what are your thoughts on Perry? Do you like him good, bad?

I was gunna vote Motodude 2012.:haha:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

politics + religion + god bless x = not good mix

Could someone "translate" this for me:A C and D student, who hates to govern, loves to campaign, and barely has a sixth grader's understanding of economics, will lead our nation into oblivion. I'm especially puzzled with "A C and D student". How bad thing this is? I'm totally unaware of Texas politics - didn't even know governor's name.

[nikimcbee]

politics + religion + god bless x = not good mix

Could someone "translate" this for me: I'm especially puzzled with "A C and D student". How bad thing this is? I'm totally unaware of Texas politics - didn't even know governor's name.

Those are student grades.

A= highest, best
C= average
D=lowest, but passes
F= failing

[Hottentot]

I'm especially puzzled with "A C and D student". How bad thing this is?

I think it refers to this

At most schools, colleges and universities in the United States, letter grades follow a five-point system, using the letters A, B, C, D and E/F, with A indicating excellent, C indicating average and E/F indicating failing.

Edit: Ninja boston terriers! How cool is that?!

[Sailor Steve]

"Teavangelicals"
:rotfl2:

[AVGWarhawk]

Funny how the people banging the "Perry for President" drum the hardest don't live in Texas.

Who are 'the people'? Currently I would take Katy Perry in the White House. She could do no worse.

[nikimcbee]

I think it refers to this



Edit: Ninja boston terriers! How cool is that?!

Fastest paws in the West.

[mookiemookie]

Who are 'the people'? Currently I would take Katy Perry in the White House. She could do no worse.

I would certainly watch every speech she gave.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Who are 'the people'? Currently I would take Katy Perry in the White House. She could do no worse.Doesn't sound bad idea actually... :hmmm: Would look better in pictures than earlier presidents. However I'm afraid that she may not be eligible. Am I correct that person must be x year(s) old when taking office?

[Tribesman]

Currently I would take Katy Perry in the White House. She could do no worse.
It would also have the bonus that she would have to give up making "music"

[nikimcbee]

I would certainly watch every speech she gave.

A message for Mookie from... Katy Perry.
http://fiw3.fashionindie.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/katy-perry-esquire-550x597.jpg


wait wut waz the massage again, I was distracted.

[nikimcbee]

So, does this mean this is the"Katy Perry" thread now.

quietly slips out of thread before Neal notices his thread has been hijacked...

[AVGWarhawk]

I would certainly watch every speech she gave.

Naked or not! :DL

[AVGWarhawk]

So, does this mean this is the"Katy Perry" thread now.

quietly slips out of thread before Neal notices his thread has been hijacked...

:D

Perry for Prez!

[Bubblehead1980]

Not a fan of Rick Perry, seems like another texas neo con, we need a real conservative committed to really solving our fiscal issues.Having said that,
Perry would be better than obama anyday.Time for Libs to admit(like many are, even in the media) that obama is not an effective leader among his many other faults that are well documented.I suppose one thing in Perry's favor, Texas is doing well even in this depression.Yes I call it a depression, it is, no one wants to admit it.I have not been effected by the economy other than outrageous gas prices but millions have, it's a depression, end of story.See DENIAL.

[Armistead]

He will pull the christian right in mass, may get a nomination, but would lose against Obama.

The GOP better put up a center moderate if they want the White House, people are tired of extremes...

Give me Ron Paul anyday, not that he has a chance in the GOP.

[AVGWarhawk]

Katy Perry for Prez.

Just another rock star in the White House! :O:

[Onkel Neal]

So, does this mean this is the"Katy Perry" thread now.

quietly slips out of thread before Neal notices his thread has been hijacked...

And people wonder why American politics are so screwed up :haha:

I'm not a big Perry fan, but he's better than what we have now. A lot better.

[mookiemookie]

Texas is doing well even in this depression.

Texas has a $27 billion budget deficit. They're closing elementary schools, colleges and police departments.

See what I mean about people outside of Texas having no clue about Perry or the state's financial problems? :rotfl2:

[Growler]

If we're going to elect a Texan, vote for Neal.

[flatsixes]

Pretty crappy grades (http://politicalwire.com/archives/2011/08/05/perrys_grades.html), Governor. Of course, they go a-ways back -late 60's, early 70's, and, uh.... we don't remember too much about those days either.
Still, you grew up to be something other than a community organizer, so I guess you weren't sleeping through all of your classes.

[Bubblehead1980]

He will pull the christian right in mass, may get a nomination, but would lose against Obama.

The GOP better put up a center moderate if they want the White House, people are tired of extremes...

Give me Ron Paul anyday, not that he has a chance in the GOP.


Paul would be great but he's older now and does not play ball with the scum in D.C.

[FIREWALL]

Imo he's no better or worse than anyone else that is running.

Anything is an improvement over the incumbent sitting in the White House now.

[razark]

If we're going to elect a Texan, vote for Neal.
I don't know if I could support that. Would he have time to run the country and Subsim.com?

[Bubblehead1980]

Texas has a $27 billion budget deficit. They're closing elementary schools, colleges and police departments.

See what I mean about people outside of Texas having no clue about Perry or the state's financial problems? :rotfl2:

Mookie, I am aware of that and it is unfortunate but given the times Texas is weathering the storm and doing better than other states.Unmployment is low, companies have moved there in droves from CA.No bs state income tax, etc. FYI, I have a clue about Perry and visit Texas(Dallas area) fairly often, have family there so:rotfl2:

Like I said, I dislike him, he's a neo con but he'd be a lot better than the fool playing president now.

[nikimcbee]

I don't know if I could support that. Would he have time to run the country and Subsim.com?


:hmmm::hmmm::hmmm::hmmm:
cleans off crystal ball and looks into the future...

2016 President(e) Stevens reigns....

meanwhile, back at subsim...

(actual recorded footage from the future)

(status quo in GT forum)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idsxgLjGXGI&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIlodWt-Nl4&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWv53OJ-ydI


McBee's subsim the musical 2016:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=gMnG3gOqigE



Sweet jeebus, think of what Jim's post count would be by then!:o Do they make servers big enough to store that size of a number!:o

[Anthony W.]

This is on CNN. I give it no credit.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

This is on CNN. I give it no credit.Why? Is there some reason why CNN is not credible? What would be better? Should I read something from Fox Noise Channel website?

[Anthony W.]

Why? Is there some reason why CNN is not credible? What would be better? Should I read something from Fox News Channel website?

I gave up on all forms of media in relation to news. It's all pointing fingers, with "this will happen", stated so absolutely. Remember when unemployment wouldn't go higher than 8%? Remember when none of the agencies would downgrade our debt? How about when the mortgage bubble would never collapse - or when we would never enter the war in Europe during WWII? How about when major security breaches would never occur in the pentagon?

[Growler]

I don't know if I could support that. Would he have time to run the country and Subsim.com?
He's kept his sanity and his sense of humor keeping all of us in line, he's raised kids and kept Cavalla looking good... Aside from the fact that we like him too much to punish him so, I can't imagine anyone better for the job, except maybe McBee's menagerie of pups.

Think on it... Defense secretary 'buna, secretary of state Steve, homeland security secretary McBee, treasury secretary Reece... Okay, on second thought, let's not go to Camelot, it's a silly place.

[August]

Rick Perry? Isn't he some kind of rock and roll personality?

[Anthony W.]

Rick Perry? Isn't he some kind of rock and roll personality?

I personally like him - tho that is a tentative statement. Him, Bachman, and Pawlenty (sp?) are my top 3 so far.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I gave up on all forms of media in relation to news. It's all pointing fingers, with "this will happen", stated so absolutely. Remember when unemployment wouldn't go higher than 8%? Remember when none of the agencies would downgrade our debt? How about when the mortgage bubble would never collapse - or when we would never enter the war in Europe during WWII? How about when major security breaches would never occur in the pentagon?

Well... I'm from Finland which when I last time checked wasn't part of the United States of America (thank God!) and therefore I wasn't aware of these. I'm also little bit too young to remember anything about pre-WWII time... I didn't exist yet.

I personally like him - tho that is a tentative statement. Him, Bachman, and Pawlenty (sp?) are my top 3 so far.I dislike republicans guess why? Two reasons: 1. George W. Bush - one Republican warmonger, no thanks to another 2. in my opinion excessive presence of religion (this applies in some extent to dems too). In last election I would have voted (in unlucky case of being American) McCain if Palin wouldn't have been Vice President candidate.

P.S. I don't have anything against citizens of United States of America, but since 2003 I have not trusted in any extent to U.S. federal government.

[FIREWALL]

If we're going to elect a Texan, vote for Neal.

Dude!!! Go wash your Nose real good. :haha: Just j\king :DL

[Anthony W.]

Well... I'm from Finland which when I last time checked wasn't part of the United States of America (thank God!) and therefore I wasn't aware of these. I'm also little bit too young to remember anything about pre-WWII time... I didn't exist yet.

I dislike republicans guess why? Two reasons: 1. George W. Bush - one Republican warmonger, no thanks to another 2. in my opinion excessive presence of religion (this applies in some extent to dems too). In last election I would have voted (in unlucky case of being American) McCain if Palin wouldn't have been Vice President candidate.

P.S. I don't have anything against citizens of United States of America, but since 2003 I have not trusted in any extent to U.S. federal government.

Well then how about this, I dislike democrats because of lack of morality and Lyndon Johnson, FDR, all the Kennedy's, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, the (mainly) democrats that tried to stop the civil rights movement, Woodrow Wilson, Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Jimmy Carter, Tim Geithner, pretty much everyone appointed by the current admin., the EPA, the ACLU, and trust me I can list hundreds of people and groups I have something against (also can think of a lot that I don't have much of anything against).

Can't make the face of a group someone who isn't influential anymore.

And Bush did a number of good things, especially during his 1st term.

Oh, war mongers, FDR and LBJ

[vienna]

The following letter to the editor appeared in this morning's [Aug. 11, 2011] Los Angeles Times:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
latimes.com

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

A warning from Texas; FDR and Obama; L.A.'s new football stadium

August 11, 2011
Texas, taxes and jobs

I am a visitor to California and a lifelong Texan. Imagine my surprise to encounter an anti-tax signature collector in San Diego arguing that California will lose jobs to Texas if taxes increase.

We Texans have already got all the minimum-wage, no-benefit jobs we can handle, along with lousy roads, a 19th century school system, a high poverty rate, hunger, lack of medical care and the highest rate of uninsured people in the nation. Our education system is declining, and much of the new jobs pay minimum wage. Texas is becoming third-world.

California has so much of what Texas lacks. Be happy to pay your taxes because you are getting so much for them. Tighten your belt and preserve the California you have while you can. Don't destroy California; you will regret it later.

Kathleen Bombach

El Paso


-----------------------------------------------------------------------------


Sounds like your're "doin' a heck of a job", Rickie...

A C and D student, who hates to govern, loves to campaign, and barely has a sixth grader's understanding of economics

Another under-achieving, lack-a-daisical, indifferent, self-absorbed Texas governor for President? Hmm...the last one took a thriving economy, a balanced budget, and a surplus and left the country in near bankruptcy...imagine what "best and brightest" Perry could due with our economy in it's present state...

[Onkel Neal]

Texas has a $27 billion budget deficit. They're closing elementary schools, colleges and police departments.

See what I mean about people outside of Texas having no clue about Perry or the state's financial problems? :rotfl2:

True, but that deficit is offset by $10 billion "rainy day" account, and that's not bad considering we've had the worst recession in 40 years.

As for closing schools, brother, you know they are building them like crazy. Come on with me, I'll give you a tour of the brand new schools in Pearland, Lake Jackson, Sugarland, etc. They may be closing schools in some places but I doubt it has anything to do with the budget.

As for closing police depts, that's a plus. Most communities have bloated law enforcement depts.


In last election I would have voted (in unlucky case of being American) McCain if Palin wouldn't have been Vice President candidate.

Rude much? :nope:


The following letter to the editor appeared in this morning's [Aug. 11, 2011] Los Angeles Times:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
latimes.com

LETTERS TO THE EDITOR

A warning from Texas; FDR and Obama; L.A.'s new football stadium

August 11, 2011
Texas, taxes and jobs

I am a visitor to California and a lifelong Texan. Imagine my surprise to encounter an anti-tax signature collector in San Diego arguing that California will lose jobs to Texas if taxes increase.

We Texans have already got all the minimum-wage, no-benefit jobs we can handle, along with lousy roads, a 19th century school system, a high poverty rate, hunger, lack of medical care and the highest rate of uninsured people in the nation. Our education system is declining, and much of the new jobs pay minimum wage. Texas is becoming third-world.

California has so much of what Texas lacks. Be happy to pay your taxes because you are getting so much for them. Tighten your belt and preserve the California you have while you can. Don't destroy California; you will regret it later.

Kathleen Bombach

El Paso





Lady, you're a freaking idiot, please move to California! :rock:


.

[mookiemookie]

Well, this is sure going to make it harder to secede. :doh:

Not at all. Wait till Governor Goodhair becomes president, then secede. :yeah:

[AVGWarhawk]

She is an idiot, Neal. My sister lives in Austin. Says TX has never been better! My nieces say the say!

[August]

Well then how about this

The thing you have to realize Anthony is that foreigners like kraznyi_oktjabr don't have a clear view American society or our politics. They get small glimpses into our world without realizing that what they are seeing is mostly partisan propaganda aimed at influencing the most gullible of our domestic audiences.

When you filter that through the distortions of distance, culture and language it's no wonder they so often have such unrealistic views of us.

Of course this is a two way street. Our view of them is no more clear than their view is of us. It's why I try to refrain from making generalized comments about them (although I don't always succeed!:DL)

[Osmium Steele]

P.S. I don't have anything against citizens of United States of America, but since 2003 I have not trusted in any extent to U.S. federal government.

Welcome to the club!!! :yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

It's why I try to refrain from making generalized comments about them (although I don't always succeed!:DL)
Yeah, that's pretty typical of you New Englanders. :O:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Well then how about this, I dislike democrats because of lack of morality and Lyndon Johnson, FDR, all the Kennedy's, John Edwards, Bill Clinton, the (mainly) democrats that tried to stop the civil rights movement, Woodrow Wilson, Obama, Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Jimmy Carter, Tim Geithner, pretty much everyone appointed by the current admin., the EPA, the ACLU, and trust me I can list hundreds of people and groups I have something against (also can think of a lot that I don't have much of anything against).

Can't make the face of a group someone who isn't influential anymore.

And Bush did a number of good things, especially during his 1st term.

Oh, war mongers, FDR and LBJYou listed quite long list of inviduals. Could you expain that a little bit? That would help to understand your viewpoint. What comes to warmongering I can understand LBJ as but at my understanding FDR sent troops only against those nations who first declared war to United States. Could you explain what am I missing?

The thing you have to realize Anthony is that foreigners like kraznyi_oktjabr don't have a clear view American society or our politics. They get small glimpses into our world without realizing that what they are seeing is mostly partisan propaganda aimed at influencing the most gullible of our domestic audiences.

When you filter that through the distortions of distance, culture and language it's no wonder they so often have such unrealistic views of us.

Of course this is a two way street. Our view of them is no more clear than their view is of us. It's why I try to refrain from making generalized comments about them (although I don't always succeed!:DL)That post is unfortunately correct. My view about American society is based mostly on information obtained from such sources as BBC, New York Times, Washington Post, International Herald Tribune, CNN, Fox, MSNBC, ABC and ofcourse local Finnish media like Yle, MTV3 and Helsingin Sanomat. I disagree with August in that our media is publishing "mostly partisan propaganda aimed at influencing the most gullible of our [U.S.] domestic audiences" but ofcourse I can't always verify how extensively every article's takes into account different viewpoints to issue.

Would I have financial resources I would gladly visit in your country and spend time in as many state as possible to get some more information. Currently one of the best ways to get look into issues on U.S. internal politics and your country's views in international politics is to visit in this forum. That's why I most appreciate those post who instead of just declaring persons own opinion also explain why they think so? That its why I often find understanding Anthony's (no you are not only one, just first name which comes to my mind) point of view very difficult. I also really appreciate if people provide links where there is more information on subject which we here happen to be discussing.

Thank you if you read this from beginning to the end! :)

[Onkel Neal]

Not at all. Wait till Governor Goodhair becomes president, then secede. :yeah:

Actually, if we're lucky, he'll become President, screw it up big time, and then the rest of the states will kick us out of the union. :up:

[Growler]

Originally Posted by Growler http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/viewpost.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1725966#post1725966)
In last election I would have voted (in unlucky case of being American) McCain if Palin wouldn't have been Vice President candidate.

Rude much? :nope:



What the Heck? I didn't say this.

[Onkel Neal]

Oh, sorry Growler, that should be kraznyi_oktjabr

The perils of trying to make a post with multiple quotes :wah:

[Growler]

Oh, sorry Growler, that should be kraznyi_oktjabr

The perils of trying to make a post with multiple quotes :wah:

I was beginning to wonder about my work computer's security for a minute there.

And I agree - twas rude.:D

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

I was beginning to wonder about my work computer's security for a minute there.

And I agree - twas rude.:DWell... if it was then, sorry. I don't see being an American as being dream come true right next after being in the Heaven.

I try to be less straightforward in presenting my opinions in future.

[Takeda Shingen]

Well... if it was then, sorry. I don't see being an American as being dream come true right next after being in the Heaven.

I try to be less straightforward in presenting my opinions in future.

Or you could simply attempt to be civil. That's all we ask here; follow the golden rule.

[Herr-Berbunch]

That's all we ask here; follow the golden rule.

http://www.cartoonstock.com/newscartoons/cartoonists/jdi/lowres/jdin532l.jpg
This one?

[Growler]

I try to be less straightforward in presenting my opinions in future.

Only thing I'm saying is, for many people - as lots of us here can tell you - America IS still their dream of paradise. Many risk death in very unpleasant ways to get here.

Does this grant us the right to act without restraint? Of course not. But don't discount the fact that America, even today in its difficulties, is still a lot of people's definition of hope for a better life.

[Anthony W.]

You listed quite long list of inviduals. Could you expain that a little bit? That would help to understand your viewpoint. What comes to warmongering I can understand LBJ as but at my understanding FDR sent troops only against those nations who first declared war to United States. Could you explain what am I missing?

Well, to begin with, my grandfather worked with The Kennedy's. He said that they were involved in a lot of backroom dealings (politically and financially), and actually tried to get him in on some of it. He overall said that they bought their political situations.

FDR wanted to go to war, but as part his election platform during the (at the time unpopular) European conflict, he vowed not to. The Lend Lease Act was actually a way to indirectly get into the war.

Some democrats have a habit of going beyond keeping religion out of politics, and as far as attacking people who do believe in God, and THAT is purely unacceptable.

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.

Bill Clinton - lied under oath

During the 60's (and earlier), it was almost exclusively Democrats passing segregation laws, and stopping civil rights legislation. It was even (mainly) them that were against the Emancipation Proclamation.

Woodrow Wilson was attempting to pass communistic laws - he even (tho not very well known) had written a second constitution that handed over almost all freedoms to the Feds - I could be wrong - it may have been FDR, but it was one of them.

The EPA is filled with cover ups and are constantly restricting what we can and can't do with regards to "emissions" (quotations because I don't agree with it)

The ACLU actually sues people for following immigration laws (only in California and a few other states can they get away with it...) and raised controversy over a WWI veteran's memorial cross in the middle of the Arizona desert, which resulted in the vandalism and eventual theft of the cross.

The progressive Democrats have a habit of trying to regulate what is generally accepted as perfectly moral behavior, and deregulating behavior that is controversial.

[AVGWarhawk]

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.

It was a girl. :03:

[mookiemookie]

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.

What about when John Ensign did the same?

During the 60's (and earlier), it was almost exclusively Democrats passing segregation laws, and stopping civil rights legislation. It was even (mainly) them that were against the Emancipation Proclamation.

If you could be bothered to do a bit of your own research instead of swallowing whatever bullpucky Glenn Beck or whoever feeds you, you'd see that it was almost exclusively lawmakers in the South that were against those things. The percentage of Republicans in the South who opposed the Civil Rights Act was almost identical to the percentage of Democrats in the South who opposed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_Rights_Act_of_1964#By_party_and_region

But why let facts get in the way?

[CaptainMattJ.]

Well, to begin with, my grandfather worked with The Kennedy's. He said that they were involved in a lot of backroom dealings (politically and financially), and actually tried to get him in on some of it. He overall said that they bought their political situations.

FDR wanted to go to war, but as part his election platform during the (at the time unpopular) European conflict, he vowed not to. The Lend Lease Act was actually a way to indirectly get into the war.

Some democrats have a habit of going beyond keeping religion out of politics, and as far as attacking people who do believe in God, and THAT is purely unacceptable.

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.

Bill Clinton - lied under oath

During the 60's (and earlier), it was almost exclusively Democrats passing segregation laws, and stopping civil rights legislation. It was even (mainly) them that were against the Emancipation Proclamation.

Woodrow Wilson was attempting to pass communistic laws - he even (tho not very well known) had written a second constitution that handed over almost all freedoms to the Feds - I could be wrong - it may have been FDR, but it was one of them.

The EPA is filled with cover ups and are constantly restricting what we can and can't do with regards to "emissions" (quotations because I don't agree with it)

The ACLU actually sues people for following immigration laws (only in California and a few other states can they get away with it...) and raised controversy over a WWI veteran's memorial cross in the middle of the Arizona desert, which resulted in the vandalism and eventual theft of the cross.

The progressive Democrats have a habit of trying to regulate what is generally accepted as perfectly moral behavior, and deregulating behavior that is controversial.
No one is doing the right thing. dont put it all on democrats.whoever holds office seems to make the worst decisions.

its like their brain instantly degrades into a pile of crap and greed.

But it gets worse. The sheer amount of ignorant, unbelievably stupid, greedy, isolated, and selfish people living in this country makes the idea of allowing all the unwashed masses to vote on the biggest bills not an option.


These politicians, regardless of of their general and moral incompetence, have basically been educated in the art of manipulating the unwashed masses. Therefore, allowing people to vote on big bills wont matter anyway. Because the politicians will spew their bull**** and the unwashed masses will just soak it up like a sponge.


"A popular Government without popular information nor the means of aquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy or perhaps both. Knowledge will forever govern ignorance, and a people who mean to be their own Governors must arm themselves with the power knowledge gives"

- James Madison

[Tribesman]

But why let facts get in the way?
Don't put him off his stride mookie, its fun to watch:03:

[Anthony W.]

All politics degrade into crap at some point.

The Conservative viewpoint is what I have found to be logical in my case. I want the feds out of my damn business, my wallet, my life, my state, everything. It is their job to protect me from enemies foreign and domestic, and I don't want anything more than that. I don't want social security, I don't want medicare, I don't want any of that. I don't want to be FORCED to be charitable (welfare and numerous other things). I'm a good person. If I have the wiggle room to spare some for the poor, I'll put it in the collection basket at church. I also believe in the right to fail.

Also, I wasn't mentioning people from both sides of the aisle in my argument because my argument was never about both sides. It was about my views on ONE side.

[Tribesman]

See what I mean:har::har::har::har::har:

[mookiemookie]

I don't want to be FORCED to be charitable (welfare and numerous other things). I'm a good person. If I have the wiggle room to spare some for the poor, I'll put it in the collection basket at church. I also believe in the right to fail.

Welfare, social security and Medicare/Medicaid aren't charity, they're insurance.

[Anthony W.]

Welfare, social security and Medicare/Medicaid aren't charity, they're insurance.

And that is a perspective I've never heard, nor do I comprehend.

Explain, please?

[Hottentot]

And that is a perspective I've never heard, nor do I comprehend.

Explain, please?

Thinking from Finnish point of view (however relevant that is), I think Mookie means that welfare is not something you pay for and someone else benefits. It's something everyone pays for and everyone benefits. So when you need it, it's there for you.

You get unemployed all the sudden, the government makes sure you'll have at least enough money to feed yourself and you can concentrate on finding a new job instead of just fighting for basic survival. You get sick all the sudden, you can go to a clinic and know you'll get help (note that I have no experience of the American health insurance system, so I can't compare our and your system). I would also count free education all the way up to the university level into this.

In that way it's not charity. I'd say it's even the opposite of charity. That's the point: in case you get into trouble, you are not on the mercy of anyone's charity. You know you'll be taken care of, no matter what.

I'm not going to fantasize here: it has its problems and loopholes as any system. Why do you think it says as it says on my "location"? But at least I have so far been pretty happy with it. Just offering those famous two cents.

[Anthony W.]

You get unemployed all the sudden, the government makes sure you'll have at least enough money to feed yourself and you can concentrate on finding a new job instead of just fighting for basic survival. You get sick all the sudden, you can go to a clinic and know you'll get help (note that I have no experience of the American health insurance system, so I can't compare our and your system). I would also count free education all the way up to the university level into this.

Okay, I get that. My problem with the Democrats on the issue of Welfare is that when the conservatives and Tea Party members proposed safeguards and checks to prevent druggies and other people from abusing the system, they either get shot down, or in a few cases, sued

[mookiemookie]

Thinking from Finnish point of view (however relevant that is), I think Mookie means that welfare is not something you pay for and someone else benefits. It's something everyone pays for and everyone benefits. So when you need it, it's there for you.

You get unemployed all the sudden, the government makes sure you'll have at least enough money to feed yourself and you can concentrate on finding a new job instead of just fighting for basic survival. You get sick all the sudden, you can go to a clinic and know you'll get help (note that I have no experience of the American health insurance system, so I can't compare our and your system). I would also count free education all the way up to the university level into this.

In that way it's not charity. I'd say it's even the opposite of charity. That's the point: in case you get into trouble, you are not on the mercy of anyone's charity. You know you'll be taken care of, no matter what.

I'm not going to fantasize here: it has its problems and loopholes as any system. Why do you think it says as it says on my "location"? But at least I have so far been pretty happy with it. Just offering those famous two cents.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

We as a society have decided that it's better for people who find themselves out of work or in dire financial straits during an economic downturn to have a modicum of support instead of dying in the streets of hunger or sickness.

[AngusJS]

Well, to begin with, my grandfather worked with The Kennedy's. He said that they were involved in a lot of backroom dealings (politically and financially), and actually tried to get him in on some of it. He overall said that they bought their political situations.Good thing Republicans never engage in back room deals.

FDR wanted to go to war, but as part his election platform during the (at the time unpopular) European conflict, he vowed not to. The Lend Lease Act was actually a way to indirectly get into the war.Yeah, trying to help Britain in WW2 was wrong. What a warmonger. :doh:

Some democrats have a habit of going beyond keeping religion out of politics, and as far as attacking people who do believe in God, and THAT is purely unacceptable.Who? When?

John Edwards cheated on his wife that was (and now has died) dying of cancer during his presidential campaign, and used campaign funds to provide for and shut his mistress up. He even has a son with her.Uhh... Newt Gingrich? Both parties have cheaters galore.

During the 60's (and earlier), it was almost exclusively Democrats passing segregation laws, and stopping civil rights legislation. It was even (mainly) them that were against the Emancipation Proclamation.This is still relevant because Democratic Party of 2011 is only marginally different from that of the 1860's, and Democrats today would wholeheartedly support segregation. :doh:

Woodrow Wilson was attempting to pass communistic laws - he even (tho not very well known) had written a second constitution that handed over almost all freedoms to the Feds - I could be wrong - it may have been FDR, but it was one of them.:rotfl2: You might want to get your facts straight. I guess you're talking about FDR, and I guess you mean the "Second Bill of Rights" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Bill_of_Rights) which Roosevelt listed in a speech in Congress- some secret! Read it and tell me where "almost all freedoms" are handed to the Feds.


The EPA is filled with cover ups and are constantly restricting what we can and can't do with regards to "emissions" (quotations because I don't agree with it)Guess who created the EPA. Hint: it wasn't a Democrat.

The ACLU(which is not a Democratic organization) actually sues people for following immigration laws (only in California and a few other states can they get away with it...) and raised controversy over a WWI veteran's memorial cross in the middle of the Arizona desert(which is actually in California, and was illegally placed there)
which resulted in the vandalism and eventual theft of the cross.(none of which was done or promoted by the ACLU).

[MH]

I couldn't have said it better myself!

We as a society have decided that it's better for people who find themselves out of work or in dire financial straits during an economic downturn to have a modicum of support instead of dying in the streets of hunger or sickness.

Just a little say on that....
Welfare is a good thing but it should never be the way its done in some EU countries where people are actually living on it.
In Israel we used to have extended welfare many years ago.
Some people had been actually living on it while working illegally.
Now its up to 4 month of welfare and that's it.
You must go work at most ****ty job weather you like it or not for at list a year before coming back knocking at the door.

On another hand i would not like to be USA citizen with your health-care.

[Tribesman]

Guess who created the EPA. Hint: it wasn't a Democrat.

Come on angus, you can do much better than that, his complaint against the EPA is just hilarious regardless of who was in power when it was set up.

[mookiemookie]

Just a little say on that....
Welfare is a good thing but it should never be the way its done in some EU countries where people are actually living on it.
In Israel we used to have extended welfare many years ago.
Some people had been actually living on it while working illegally.
Now its up to 4 month of welfare and that's it.
You must go work at most ****ty job weather you like it or not for at list a year before coming back knocking at the door.

On another hand i would not like to be USA citizen with your health-care.

I agree. There's lots of loopholes and shortfalls in the system as it is currently enacted. People who don't use it as temporary insurance but rather a lifestyle are doing it wrong.

As for health care - I am one of the ones lucky enough to have health insurance through my job. It's not cheap (around $120 a month, plus another $30 or so everytime I see the doctor, plus another $10 each time I get a prescription filled) but it could be much, much worse.

[CaptainHaplo]

In going back to why Perry wil or will not be President....

While his evangelical side will appeal to many of the Christian right and his fiscal / economic views will satisfy tea partiers, his record on poverty and education results will give more moderate republicans pause. However, his real problem is not "at home".

Perry has some major flaws - his foreign policy. His experience outside the country has been nothing but salesmanship - promotiing free trade and free markets for Texas goods. The people he has chosen to deal with on non-economic matters - are people like Doug Feith. This denotes a return to the "neo-conservative" foreign policy which resulted in significant economic stress and military weakening of this country. America - whether Republican, Democrat or Independant, will shudder at the thought of more wars or foreign interventions. The citizenry just doesn't have the stomach for it.

In any other time, Perry would be likely to pull the nomination - and I think a dog could run against Obummer and win - but the majority of republicans are not hard right, bible thumping internationalist willing to strengthen our economy only to see it spent on overseas action.

The American people are more in tune with returning to focusing at home, not pursuing an aggressive foreign policy abroad. Yes, there will always be places that need our attention outside our borders, but Perry looks to be emulating the latter Bush - and that will create an opening for his opponents to exploit.

[razark]

I guess it's official now.

http://www.rickperry.org/news/why-im-running/

[Platapus]

I guess it's official now.

http://www.rickperry.org/news/why-im-running/

Alrighty then, makes the decision a lot easier to make.

[Oberon]

I'd like to see Scott Brown run sometime...I think he'd go quite far. He seems to be a decent chap. :hmmm: From an outsiders point of view anyway.

[mookiemookie]

and his fiscal / economic views will satisfy tea partiers


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/19/no-tea-party-for-perry-as-weighs-nomination-bid/

Again, he appeals to out of staters. Texans, not so much.

[Anthony W.]

1. I was just making the point about FDR

2. Oops on the Wilson thing

3. The ACLU has been taken over by democrats/progressives. Saying they aren't is like saying ACORN was bipartisan

4. I listed examples on the religious grievance. Also, see ACLU

5. If liberals can argue over issues hundreds of years old, so I can I.

6. I also know the EPA was Nixon's deal - but it has recently been majorly overstepping it's boundaries.

7. The cross was perfectly legally put there.

8. They haven't proved or disproved your last point.

[mookiemookie]

So when the ACLU fights for students to wear Christian symbols in school (http://aclu-co.org/news/aclu-supports-students-right-of-religious-freedom) or when they fight for the right for students to wear anti Islam shirts (http://www.aclufl.org/news_events/?action=viewRelease&emailAlertID=3794) or when they fight to have Christmas trees put up (ACLU Fights for Christmas Tree) or when they back abortion protestors right to speech (http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16471), they're just being damn dirty godless liberals.

:nope: It's funny to see someone so uninformed act like they have it all figured out. You don't have the first clue who the ACLU is or what they do.

[Platapus]

To me the ACLU is just a big defense law firm. Like any other law firm, I agree with some of the cases they represent, I disagree with some of the cases they represent and I recognize that there are a lot of cases they represent I simply don't care about.

[Morts]

So when the ACLU fights for students to wear Christian symbols in school (http://aclu-co.org/news/aclu-supports-students-right-of-religious-freedom) or when they fight for the right for students to wear anti Islam shirts (http://www.aclufl.org/news_events/?action=viewRelease&emailAlertID=3794) or when they fight to have Christmas trees put up (http://ACLU%20Fights%20for%20Christmas%20Tree) or when they back abortion protestors right to speech (http://www.freedomforum.org/templates/document.asp?documentID=16471), they're just being damn dirty godless liberals.

:nope: It's funny to see someone so uninformed act like they have it all figured out. You don't have the first clue who the ACLU is or what they do.

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/

[mookiemookie]

http://www.aclufightsforchristians.com/

Exactly. And when the ACLU does all that and also fights for gun owners rights (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/05/us/politics/05guns.html?em&ex=1175918400&en=1844ac9bdf566719&ei=5087%0A), our young friend here still hates them because they're some partisan organization in his eyes.

[razark]

To me the ACLU is just a big defense law firm.
Except they take a very selective range of cases.

Like any other law firm, I agree with some of the cases they represent, I disagree with some of the cases they represent and I recognize that there are a lot of cases they represent I simply don't care about.
The ACLU, by their very nature, tends to take cases that many people disagree with. Popular speech doesn't need to be protected. Unpopular speech needs to be protected, and that's exactly what the ACLU does. That makes them unpopular with a lot of people.

[Onkel Neal]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/07/19/no-tea-party-for-perry-as-weighs-nomination-bid/

Again, he appeals to out of staters. Texans, not so much.


Oh, he appeals to some, he is the longest running governor in the Lone Star state's history :O:

[Anthony W.]

My deal with the ACLU is that while they do some good, they also do a LOT of stupid crap, like suing people for not hiring illegal immigrants.

[mookiemookie]

Oh, he appeals to some, he is the longest running governor in the Lone Star state's history :O:

Indeed, the poll shows Perry trailing President Obama in heavily Republican Texas, which last voted Democratic for president in 1976, when Jimmy Carter was the South's favorite son. Obama leads 47%-45%, even though Obama's net approval rating is underwater at 42%-55%.

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/06/poll-perry-trails-obama-in-texas.php

That was a month and a half ago, but still. Obama over Perry in Texas?

[Tribesman]

My deal with the ACLU is that while they do some good, they also do a LOT of stupid crap, like suing people for not hiring illegal immigrants.

Interesting, any details on that?
After all it must be a very big story getting sued in court for not breaking the law.

[vienna]

Rick Perry is officially welcomed to the microscope of presidental candidate media scrutiny:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Los Angeles Times, August 16, 2011

Gov. Rick Perry's Big Donors Fare Well In Texas

Many or the GOP presidential candidate's mega-donors have won hefty contracts or appointments. Perry's aides vigorously dispute that any got special perks.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-0816-perry-donors-20110816,0,7718310.story

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Rick Perry is officially welcomed to the microscope of presidental candidate media scrutiny:

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Los Angeles Times, August 16, 2011

Gov. Rick Perry's Big Donors Fare Well In Texas

Many or the GOP presidential candidate's mega-donors have won hefty contracts or appointments. Perry's aides vigorously dispute that any got special perks.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-0816-perry-donors-20110816,0,7718310.storyGuilty until proven innocent...

[CaptainHaplo]

But of course, no "mainstream" media reports on how many major donors got cushy positions with the current administration though.....

[nikimcbee]

@ Neal
So what do you not like about him? How does he compare to Bush (as gubner). Has he done anything you like?

I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
I have an Idea, how 'bout you guys make Shiela Jackson-Lee your gubner. She sounds like a live wire.:D

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID31244/images/Sheila_Jackson-Lee_moonbattery-com.jpg

That subsim is the greatest, number 1 website...evah!

[mookiemookie]

But of course, no "mainstream" media reports on how many major donors got cushy positions with the current administration though.....

Ah, the classic "it's ok because they did it too" defense.


@ Neal
So what do you not like about him? How does he compare to Bush (as gubner). Has he done anything you like?

I'm just curious what your thoughts are.
I have an Idea, how 'bout you guys make Shiela Jackson-Lee your gubner. She sounds like a live wire.:D

http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID31244/images/Sheila_Jackson-Lee_moonbattery-com.jpg

That subsim is the greatest, number 1 website...evah!

If there's a camera, SJL will find a way to worm her way in front of it.

[CaptainHaplo]

Mookie, not at all. If its done - its wrong - regardless of the letter beside the person's name. I am not defending anyone - simply pointing out the double standard in reporting.

[vienna]

But of course, no "mainstream" media reports on how many major donors got cushy positions with the current administration though.....


But I thought all these Tea Party/Obama must go/non-insiders were going to change all the business (and it is a busine$$) of government as usual...

"Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss..." :D

[August]

But I thought all these Tea Party/Obama must go/non-insiders were going to change all the business (and it is a busine$$) of government as usual...

"Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss..." :D

Half of one of three branches of government and you want change?

[vienna]

My first inclination is to say "Keep the change..." :D

I really would like to see all the branches of government overhauled and taken away from the idea that we must accept it as it currently stands [e.g,, 'you can't fight city hall']. For instance, the new committee to be appointed to work out a bi-partisan solution to the nation's budget problems; it must be admitted that it is more than bi-partisan -- itis 'tri-partisan': I'll bet the lobbyists and special interests are already planning to camp outside the doors of the committee room and the individual members offices to be sure their 'third party' needs are addressed. Right now, all we have are a series of candidates who, while preaching sermons of change, are doing 'business as usual' with the same businesses...

[Onkel Neal]

@ Neal
So what do you not like about him? How does he compare to Bush (as gubner). Has he done anything you like?

I'm just curious what your thoughts are.


Well, Perry is like most Texas governors, they don't do much which is how native Texans like it--less government is best.

He has made some screwups, imo, like the mandated stp vacinations for middle grade schoolgirls, and he's terribly lukewarm on illegal immigration :nope:

But, he has swagger and passion, and he's a cowboy,:shucks: so I can get onboard with that. He will be a lot like Bush, and I'm plenty ok with that too. Sorry, Europe :)



SJL illustrates the worst characteristics of democracy. :dead: Idiots being represented by an idiot.

[nikimcbee]

Well, Perry is like most Texas governors, they don't do much which is how native Texans like it--less government is best.

He has made some screwups, imo, like the mandated stp vacinations for middle grade schoolgirls, and he's terribly lukewarm on illegal immigration :nope:

But, he has swagger and passion, and he's a cowboy,:shucks: so I can get onboard with that. He will be a lot like Bush, and I'm plenty ok with that too. Sorry, Europe :)



SJL illustrates the worst characteristics of democracy. :dead: Idiots being represented by an idiot.

Thanks for the answer.:salute:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

But, he has swagger and passion, and he's a cowboy,:shucks: so I can get onboard with that. He will be a lot like Bush, and I'm plenty ok with that too. Sorry, Europe :)As long as there is no more wars like Iraq I think we can live with it.

SJL illustrates the worst characteristics of democracy. :dead: Idiots being represented by an idiot.Unfortunately this is not "Only In America" thing. I would like to point out that (unfortunately) its not necessary that voters be idiots too.

Here in Finland we have a "gentleman" called Teuvo Hakkarainen who got elected to Parliament in this spring. Unfortunately this first term representative have no clue what should and should not be said. He is from same town where I used to live and is causing terrible publicity to us. :down: He also seems to be unable to understand that its part of his job that press will follow you. Especially if your blurts are good enough for frontpage coverage! :nope:

Most amazing in this case (my mom told this nice thing) is that when his mom was being asked about his sons activities she wasn't trobled at all. She just told journalists that its nothing new as "when he was young boy he once stole church silvers". :damn: