Afghan helicopter crash kills 31 US troops

[Feuer Frei!]

A US helicopter crash in eastern Afghanistan has killed 31 US special forces and seven Afghan soldiers, President Hamid Karzai's office says.
The helicopter was taking the personnel back to their base after an operation.
It is not clear how the crash happened but the Taliban have said they shot the helicopter down.
The incident is believed to be the biggest single loss of life for US forces in Afghanistan since they began operations in 2001.
The helicopter went down overnight in Wardak province, the statement from President Karzai's office said.
It was returning from an operation against the Taliban in which eight insurgents are believed to have been killed.
"The president of the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan expresses his sympathy and deep condolences to US President Barack Obama and the family of the victims," the statement said.
The Nato-led International Security Assistance Force has confirmed the helicopter crash but has not released details of casualties or the cause.
Nato said it was mounting an operation to recover the helicopter and find out why it crashed.


A Taliban spokesman said insurgents brought down the helicopter with a rocket, Associated Press news agency said.
A Wardak government spokesman quoted by AFP news agency agreed with this, saying the helicopter was hit as it was taking off.
It is believed the helicopter was a Chinook, commonly used by coalition forces in Afghanistan to ferry troops in and out of combat.


6 August 2011 Last updated at 10:22

SOURCE (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14430735)

[Feuer Frei!]

Update:
August 06, 2011

The Associated Press has learned that more than 20 Navy SEALs from the unit that killed Osama bin Laden were among those lost in a helicopter crash in Afghanistan.The operators from SEAL Team Six were flown by a crew of the 160th Special Operations Aviation Regiment. That's according to one current and one former U.S. official. Both spoke on condition of anonymity because families are still being notified of the loss of their loved ones.
One source says the team was thought to include 22 SEALs, three Air Force air controllers, seven Afghan Army troops, a dog and his handler, and a civilian interpreter, plus the helicopter crew.
The Taliban claimed they downed the helicopter with rocket fire while it was taking part in a raid on a house where insurgents were gathered in the province of Wardak late Friday. It said wreckage of the craft was strewn at the scene.

NATO confirmed the overnight crash took place and that there "was enemy activity in the area." But it said it was still investigating the cause and conducting a recovery operation at the site. It did not release details or casualty figures.
"We are in the process of accessing the facts," said U.S. Air Force Capt. Justin Brockhoff, a NATO spokesman.
But a senior U.S. administration official in Washington said it was apparently shot down. by insurgents. The official spoke on condition of anonymity because the crash is still being investigated.



Taliban spokesman Zabiullah Mujahid said in a statement that Taliban fighters downed the helicopter during a "heavy raid" in Sayd Abad. He said NATO attacked a house in Sayd Abad where insurgent fighters were gathering Friday night. During the battle, the fighters shot down the helicopter, killing 31 Americans and seven Afghans, he said, adding that eight insurgents were killed in the fight.
There have been at least 17 coalition and Afghan aircraft crashes in Afghanistan this year.
Most of the crashes were attributed to pilot errors, weather conditions or mechanical failures. However, the coalition has confirmed that at least one CH-47F Chinook helicopter was hit by a rocket propelled grenade on July 25. Two coalition crew members were injured in that attack.


SOURCE (http://www.military.com/news/article/afghan-president-31-americans-killed-in-crash.html)

[Castout]

Just as what the Pentagon spokesperson said. It's a tremendous loss because these are highly trained combatants(special forces).

It's a lot of people who died, a lot of highly trained people who are not easy to replace within short amount of time.

[Feuer Frei!]

What I am also wondering is, is this coincidence? What with more than 20 navy seals onboard that did the raid on Bin Laden?
If it wasn't coincidence then the Taliban have some seriously good informants.

[Platapus]

Helos sometimes just fall out of the sky.

Tragic loss. :salute:

[Lord Justice]

Helos sometimes just fall out of the sky.

Tragic loss. :salute:Indeed.
http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=4&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.telegraph.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fukne ws%2F1570184%2FTwo-SAS-soldiers-killed-in-Iraq-helicopter-crash.html&ei=saw-TuryJ4-1hAeCrdm1Ag&usg=AFQjCNHzpKJaqHSFLvfuEouuabc5DU_1bg Not to mention the 18 SAS killed during the falklands crash.

[Jimbuna]

Terribly tragic :nope:

[yubba]

31 lives lost, 31 dreaded knocks on the door, 31 weep-ing mothers, 31 written letters, 31 families greiving, 31 flag draped coffins, 31 vollies of gun fire, 31 new head stones, 31 empty places at the table, 31 service men reporting to God almighty, we pray that all 31 rest in peace amen.

[AVGWarhawk]

Some how I believe this was planned by the taliban. But that's just me.

[mobucks]

I doubt it was planned. More than likey just a lucky shot when opportunity arose. Chinook is not a small target, nor very fast on takeoff. Im no expert by any stretch, but I have a feeling helocopters get shot at by RPGs all the time, and almost always miss. Something like this was bound to happen sooner or later though.

I hope to see the armed forces make some adjustments to protocol involving that many highly trained soldiers in one transport. A very tragic loss of life for sure. RIP.

[Stealhead]

I dont see how either side can know for certain if this was an accident or if they did shot down the 46.I firmly believe that the Taliban will lay claim to any such event involving SF deaths.The 160th flies out of Assassabad so often (as do other choppers) that anyone watching would have a hard time knowing what was going where.

I also find the claim that they modified RPGs to be "guided" or what ever to be BS.They did take down another MH-46 back in 2007 in this case it got hit by an RPG while Navy Seals where fast roping the chopper was along a steeply sloped hill side and the RPG had a perfect straight in shot from his point of view and the round went inside the the rear ramp area and hit the roof of the chopper right in the rear engine/ transmission area the chopper dropped and rolled down the hill killing everyone.In this case they had rushed in with two MH-46s because they where trying to get to another Seal team that had been compromised they got to excited and left their normal AH-64 escort behind and entered the area with out the gunship coverage.

Something like that could have happened in this case but I think that more than likely something just went wrong and the chopper crashed sometimes it happens part of the risk of flying.

[Feuer Frei!]

Update:

As the investigations ramp up, details are beginning to emerge about the tragic crash which help illuminate the event and also raise some serious questions.
Our readers have helped to pull out two details:
1.) The combat controller (and two PJs) were from the 24th Special Tactics Squadron which supports Tier 1 units like DevGru and Delta.
2.) It was an Army Guard CH-47, though it’s unclear whether it spooled up from Jalalabad or was on scene or nearby. But there seems to be consensus that it was a CH-47, not an MH-47.
My former colleague at Army Times, Sean Naylor, got some good details on the incident from a Naval Special Warfare “source.” (http://www.armytimes.com/news/2011/08/navy-special-warfare-community-in-shock-and-disbelief-080611/) His sources are good and his stories unimpeachable — he would never allow any details to the published if he were not sure they were accurate, or at least believed to be accurate at the time. According to Sean’s story:
1.) The mission was an “immediate reaction force” not a “quick reaction force,” meaning the helo was already in the air or spooled up nearby to respond. This undercuts our Jalalabad argument since that’s not as close to the raid as, say, Bagram. But this still raises the question, why not 160th? If it was in the plan, why not use the better armed, better equipped, better trained 160th pilots?
2.) The SEALs were a mix of 6-ers and frogmen from a standard, West Coast-based team.
3.) The ST6 SEALs were from Gold Squadron.

Why use such a specialized force for an IRF? Aside from the personal tragedy, there was a lot of training, equipment cost and expertise lost in what seems to have been a pretty run of the mill mission. Again, not trying to be callous, just clinical. We lost an entire troop from Gold Squadron in the crash not on the way to kill Zawahiri, but to help out some Rangers who came under attack during a raid to kill a Haqqani crook. All life is precious, but was this the right use of this resource?

SOURCE (http://kitup.military.com/2011/08/afghan-helo-crash-details-emerge.html)


The 30 American servicemembers -- most of them elite Navy SEALs -- who died when their helicopter was shot down had rushed to help Army Rangers who had come under fire, two U.S. officials said.The heavy loss shows that clandestine tactics carry huge risks despite the huge success of the SEAL mission that killed Osama bin Laden more than three months ago. Most of the SEALs who died Saturday were from the same unit that killed bin Laden, although none of the men took part in that mission.



There were conflicting accounts late Sunday as to whether the SEAL team had subdued the attackers who had pinned down the Rangers and were departing, or whether they were hit as they tried to land. One official said they had accomplished their mission, but another said the aircraft, a Chinook helicopter, was hit as it approached.
Both officials spoke on condition of anonymity because the investigation was still ongoing.


SOURCE (http://www.military.com/news/article/seals-killed-in-crash-were-on-rescue-mission.html)




My sincere Condolences to all those affected.

[Stealhead]

I am thinking from different things I have read on the web and in books and from guys that are or have been in country the the 160th has been some what over worked for the past few years here they are very elite and as a result there are few fully trained pilots at the 160th level not to mention the aircraft as well they fly highly modified birds which of course there are going to be less of than regular choppers.

If they where on an ANG CH-47 then this implies that the regular MH-47s of the 160th that are in country where either in use else where or where not available for some other reason.I wonder why they did not have another Ranger unit standing by as an IRF?

I'd have to also guess that if it was an RPG that hit the CH-47 that it must have been fired when the chopper was either just landing(or setting up for a fast rope) or just lifting off those are the most vulnerable times fro any heilo and the most likely time for an RPG to have a chance of hitting.The CH-47 is very fast even a altitude once it gets going it can easily go 180mph or better they actually have to fly slower to allow AH-64s to keep up which top out at about 155 or so fully loaded less at higher altitudes.

Seems to me that if the enemy has displayed over a 10 year time period that they actively seek to destroy a large chopper under such situations (and have done so successfully on more than one occasion) that they might be trying to think of ways to try and avoid this from happening.I am wondering if the choppers again rushed in without its escort sweep the landing zone from what I understand this has occurred in the past.I can understand the desire of troops wanting to come to the aid of fellow soldiers but sometimes rushing in can be risky and can result in a situation that is worse than it was before.Obviously an enemy is going to expect aid to be coming and is going to counter it if possible.At the same time my dad was in the LURPs(really LRRPs) during Vietnam and I know from things that he experienced(and barely survived in some cases) that in war sometimes things just go terribly wrong and when you are an elite unit you are already dong something deemed too dangerous for regular troops so when the **** hits the fan it is a very large fan and a large amount of ****.

[Armistead]

Why are we still there, the Taliban is a cultural movement, we can never defeat them. Even now as we pull back, they're moving in.

The Afgan government is nothing more than a drug cartel.

If we're gonna pull out over the next two years, the Taliban will still be there taking over sects. Fighting them now is just stupid and a waste of time, unless we're willing to stay there another 50 years and purge the entire culture, it's time to get out.

[Stealhead]

What is your point really? No one is saying anything that I have seen in any posts here that directly agrees with staying or leaving or anything in between.

We are talking about this event and related events not anything about why we should or should not be there.I dont think that we will achieve our original goal there
either though we did kill Bin Laden so that is something and I have a feeling that they will still keep some elite units in Afghanistan for some time yet.That is assuming that
the current or next president does not change the 2014 time span all together this is modern war for you though we have not "won" a conflict since WWII.Vietnam should have taught
the US a lesson on when to get into a war and when not to but nobody who makes decisions in the military or in the White House was paying attention.