Getting started problems

[PurpleAtom]

Hi,

Although I love the idea of this game, I’m finding it damn hard to get into. I’ve done the first 3 tutorials (took me ages) but am having problems with the 4th torpedo tutorial (the most important one!). The instructions say to basically point and shoot. I figured out that locking onto a target was a good idea, and then to open the torpedo tubes first. I got one hit, but was unable to get a hit after that. Torpedo’s either bounced off or sailed on past the target – a red needle on the timer didn’t even appear?? I fully intend to play this game on manual targeting, but if I can’t even get a hit using automatic, what chance do I have!! I then tried to navigate to better positions to the targets using the bearing on the periscope but ended up further away and a worse position from where I started! :damn:

After much frustration, I then started a career but felt lost at sea! :03: I expected to be given orders, but you get no help at all about what to do. Should I assume that I just need to navigate out of the port and then start hunting for prey and then return to base after running out of ammo and fuel?
I have played Sims before like il2 Sturmovik and GTR2 and also complex strategy games like CIV, so it’s not like I am not used to working out complex games. This one does however seem to have a particularly steep learning curve with very little help from the game.
Can’t wait till I work it all out and am playing out exciting scenes straight out of Das Boot! I’m prepared to put the effort in but I think I need pointing the right direction for now.

Does anyone have any advice?
Thanks in advance

[Jimbuna]

Is it the stock/vanilla version of SH3 your playing or have you added a super mod?

[sublynx]

There being basically no orders is frustrating. You have to use imagination there. Decide what to do yourself, or use SH3Gen which generates orders or Wreford-Brown's mod, which you can find here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1502

That's the GWX version. There is also a non-GWX version. If you like naval history you can also try to figure out, what historically speaking were your boat's actual orders during the war and try to follow them. BdU's war diary helps in figuring out what was happening:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/BDUKTB30248.htm

or U-boat net:

http://www.uboat.net/boats/patrols/patrol_3964.html

That was an example of U-156 route and daily locations in one of it's patrols during the war.

About the torpedoes... Well, I think the practice mission is much harder than the campaign. In the practice mission you have to run after the ships and in the campaign it's more like you wait until they come to range. And forget the instruction about basically just pointing and shooting. You can point and shoot if you have a laser gun. Shooting in SH3 is IMO pretty much like shooting in IL2. The torpedo takes time to reach the target, as well as a 20mm cartridge needs time to hit that airplane 300 meters from you. You have to think about deflection in SH3 too. You maneuver your craft to a position where the enemy has to cross your sights in a nice, slow helpless angle. Then you stay put pretty much motionless and just before the crucial moment you don't touch a control, just wait for him to be in your sights and then blast him. If you do it right the effect is the same. That darn Il-2 Sturmovik or C2 cargo ship pretty much disintegrates.

The practice mission and you locking on to a ship is a bit like you flying a BF-109F2/P-38 against an Il-16/Zero that is jinking and barrel rolling in front of you and you trying to follow his moves. You wouldn't try to follow the moves in IL-2, but anticipate where that bastard will be at a precise moment and then shoot.

You could try the torpedo shooting method that is described in Canovaro's document collection:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1487

That will teach you the most basic thing in torpedo shooting. It's the idea of waiting for the critical moment, of shooting when the target crosses your sights, not you moving your sights towards him.

IMO, the automatic TDC can slow your learning. Move to totally manual TDC, use G7a's and External camera, so that you can see where your torpedoes are going. If you shoot accurately in IL-2, then with a little practice you'll be blasting them ships out of the waters in no time. And then you will be happily smoking a cigar while looking at that tanker burning beautifully in the night, just like in Das Boot :arrgh!:

[PurpleAtom]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try it out later and let you know how I get on.

I'm running the GWX mod. Thinking of going back to vanilla to keep things simple for now.

[sublynx]

I'm running the GWX mod. Thinking of going back to vanilla to keep things simple for now.

The torpedo shooting mechanics and ship behaviour is pretty much the same in vanilla SH3 and GWX, so I wouldn't change because of that. Vanilla will be more simple in the sense of less ships and a simpler game world, less harbours, no mines at harbours and such like.

[Jimbuna]

Thanks for the advice. I'll try it out later and let you know how I get on.

I'm running the GWX mod. Thinking of going back to vanilla to keep things simple for now.

If your starting out I'd honestly stick with GWX because I should imagine you'll want to branch out into other extras sooner rather than later.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

I’ve done the first 3 tutorials (took me ages) but am having problems with the 4th torpedo tutorial (the most important one!). The instructions say to basically point and shoot. I figured out that locking onto a target was a good idea, and then to open the torpedo tubes first. I got one hit, but was unable to get a hit after that.
I ocassionally go back and redo the torpedo and gun tutorials, because they're a good place to practice. Take your time. On automatic (I actually use manual but include the WE Assistance, as it feels more real, but is still really auto) just get ahead of the target and get as close to 90 degrees as you can. It's also best to get the ship's draft from the ID book (if you're locked on just click 'Ship' on the notepad) and set the torpedoes for 1 meter deeper (F6 Attack Map Screen). Works every time.

Torpedo’s either bounced off or sailed on past the target – a red needle on the timer didn’t even appear??
The timer needle only appears for the first torpedo. You can reset it by clicking on the timepiece, I think...

Also in GWX you get the full 1500 Acadamy renown for completing any one course, so you don't really have to go beyond Navigation. There are also people who have trouble with that one.

I fully intend to play this game on manual targeting, but if I can’t even get a hit using automatic, what chance do I have!! I then tried to navigate to better positions to the targets using the bearing on the periscope but ended up further away and a worse position from where I started! :damn:
In the tutorial I always fire at the stationary one first. He'll move faster than the hound that bothered the skunk once he sees it coming, so unlock the 'scope and aim for his bow. After that I surface and outrun them all. That makes it easy to set up a good position.

After much frustration, I then started a career but felt lost at sea! :03: I expected to be given orders, but you get no help at all about what to do. Should I assume that I just need to navigate out of the port and then start hunting for prey and then return to base after running out of ammo and fuel?
The game is set up to be as much like real life as possible in that respect. You are assigned to go to a specific grid and sink whatever you find there. Due to a holdover from the original design you are only required to stay there for 24 hours rather than until further orders, but the only penalty for not showing up at all is less renown gained. GWX removes that renown anyway, so basically you're free to do what you want. But be sure you return to base after running out of ammo but before running out of fuel!

This one does however seem to have a particularly steep learning curve with very little help from the game.
But you'll get all the help you need, or want, right here. Just ask.

Can’t wait till I work it all out and am playing out exciting scenes straight out of Das Boot!
That's why these games exist. We talk about history but what we really want is to be Der Alte.

Does anyone have any advice?
Get the Das Boot Sound Mod. Lots of goodies after that, but if you want to live the movie (or just have realistic voice acting) that's the one. :D

[PurpleAtom]

Thanks for your response sailor steve :up: A few things....

When you say 90 degrees, i take that to mean the bow of my uboat facing the port or starboard of the target? Do torpedos change direction in flight??

Is it ok to fire torpedo's while the boat is in motion? While in auto mode, will i have to adjust for this in anyway?

Is there a keyboard shortcut for follow plotted course?

I was following a search pattern and suddenly stopped. As far as i could tell this was because my crew was tired? The engine room crew had red exclamations next to them. I sent them to crew quarters and they were ok again soon enough and put them back in the engine room. Do the red exclamation marks mean they are tired?

Think im gonna stay on auto firing for a while until I get navigation and intercepting down. Im using the very helpful guide in the newbie thread for this :yeah:

Thanks for everyone's help. Without this website, I don't think I could figure this game out!:88)

[Sailor Steve]

When you say 90 degrees, i take that to mean the bow of my uboat facing the port or starboard of the target?
Exactly.

Do torpedos change direction in flight??
They will make a quick course change if the Gyro Angle is not '0'. As I said, the way I do it is to have Manual enabled, but use the WE as a cheat. Unfortunately he is perfect, so I take several readings, never use him for identification until the target is close enough to recognize myself, and put the 'scope up several times just as I would have to do if I did it myself. I'm still cheating, but this evens the odds for the enemy a little bit, and I keep telling myself at least it 'feels' real, which is all I'm after anyway.

Is it ok to fire torpedo's while the boat is in motion? While in auto mode, will i have to adjust for this in anyway?
Submerged? In real life they couldn't hover anyway. They were always in motion. In Auto mode the computer updates the solution constantly, so as long as the tubes are open you can shoot any time you want.

Is there a keyboard shortcut for follow plotted course?
Not that I know of, but then I hardly use the keyboard for anything except the very basics.

I was following a search pattern and suddenly stopped. As far as i could tell this was because my crew was tired? The engine room crew had red exclamations next to them. I sent them to crew quarters and they were ok again soon enough and put them back in the engine room. Do the red exclamation marks mean they are tired?
Yes. You need to change the entire crew out every so often. Watch and engine crew tire faster than control room crew and the torpedo rooms are the worst of all. This was fixed in SH4, which is much better in most departments.

What you need is SH3 Commander. I won't bore you with the list of all the things it does, but shutting off crew fatigue entirely is one of them. It's an external stand-alone tool that works with any supermod.

Thanks for everyone's help. Without this website, I don't think I could figure this game out!:88)
I originally found it while looking for help with SH2. It's a living, breathing treasure trove. :sunny:

[sublynx]

Is it ok to fire torpedo's while the boat is in motion? While in auto mode, will i have to adjust for this in anyway?


As Steve said a submarine moves all the time. (Just as an airplane in Il-2 does). However only move forwards or backwards at the exact moment when you shoot. Making a move to the left or to the right while hitting the fire button will spoil your solution at least in manual targeting. I'm not sure about Auto targeting.

[frau kaleun]

As Steve said a submarine moves all the time. (Just as an airplane in Il-2 does). However only move forwards or backwards at the exact moment when you shoot. Making a move to the left or to the right while hitting the fire button will spoil your solution at least in manual targeting. I'm not sure about Auto targeting.

It can be problematic with Auto targeting as well, at least in my experience. I had a bad habit of ordering a final little turn to get myself in better position and then firing off the eel while the rudder was still a ways over to port or starboard. Found my luck was much better if I waited until it was back amidships. :yep:

[max-peck]

Although I love the idea of this game, I’m finding it damn hard to get into.

Don't give up.

I found this game gave me more of a vertical rockface than a learning curve, but once it clicked, oh man :DL

Treat this forum as your manual, there's always someone around to giva a bit of advice.

Hang in there.

It's about to get very, very good. :DL

[Fish In The Water]

Hang in there.

It's about to get very, very good. :DL

Great advice! :up: