Were the MG42's on the Type II Turms?

[pditty8811]

I am curious if anyone can find any evidence or has a suspicion that the MG42's would be on the Type II Turms.

-pditty8811

[Osmium Steele]

I have never seen a pic of the 37mm M42 flak cannon on the tiny turm of a Type II. Don't recall one being modified to carry it.

Will keep looking.

[sublynx]

Are you referring to the M42 gun or the MG42 machinegun?

Anyhow I haven't seen MG42's on U-boat photos. I have seen MG34's and Italian 13 mm Breda machineguns, so I wouldn't think it would be impossible that someone had used MG42's as well.

I don't think it's too likely or common though. By 1942-1943 when MG42's were introduced it must have been pretty clear to the U-boat command that a 7.92 mm machinegun is not going to be enough for air defense, and surface attacking possibilities for the U-boats were becoming very limited.

[Jimbuna]

In terms of the machine gun I would have thought not...I certainly haven't ever come across any photographic proof.

The dates would also suggest similar.

[pditty8811]

Are you referring to the M42 gun or the MG42 machinegun?

Anyhow I haven't seen MG42's on U-boat photos. I have seen MG34's and Italian 13 mm Breda machineguns, so I wouldn't think it would be impossible that someone had used MG42's as well.

I don't think it's too likely or common though. By 1942-1943 when MG42's were introduced it must have been pretty clear to the U-boat command that a 7.92 mm machinegun is not going to be enough for air defense, and surface attacking possibilities for the U-boats were becoming very limited.

Sorry I meant the MG34.

-pditty8811

[sublynx]

Here's an excerpt from Submarine Commander's Handbook:

3.) The second shot must hit the mark. Bridge and superstructures are big targets, and soon burn. (It is particularly important that the ship should burn, as the gun commanders are dazzled by the flames, and marking is rendered very difficult.) According to circumstances, concentrate the gunfire on one part of the ship. At close range, machine guns m34 are very effective in suppressing enemy resistance.

The handbook says that the deck gun should be used at close range, and at close range enemy light guns, rifles, machine guns, even pistols, become a risk to the U-boat's crewmen. The machine gun was readied and if need be used to keep the merchant's sailors heads down during the shelling. I believe during the early years an MG-34 would probably be pretty much standard equipment on any submarine.

Here's one picture, and I think you'll find many more by a little googling:

http://ww2total.com/WW2/Weapons/Infantry/Firearms/German/MG-34/MG34.htm

[Osmium Steele]

I see nowhere that the relatively light MG34 was manufactured in a marine variant, so doubt it would have been mounted on the turm or deck of a type II; however, as Sublynx noted above, it could certainly have been carried inside for close range work.

[Missing Name]

Looking through Wikipedia, MG42's were indeed mounted on U-boats, although seemingly as an unofficial "looks like there's room there, needs more AA guns!" kind of thing. But that's Wikipedia. I'll try to do some more digging...

In the mutually destructive duel between the USS Borie and U-405, crewmembers noted U-405's deck armament was extensive: in addition to the 88 mm gun, she also had six MG42 machine guns, in one quadruple and two single mounts. These weapons would have been devastating if the sub's crewmen had been able to keep them manned. Occasionally, one of them would reach one of the MG42 mounts, and open fire briefly before he was killed.

http://silentseawolvesmsw.devhub.com/img/upload/painting-of-the-action-between-uss-borie-dd-215-and-german-submarine-u-405-painting-by-hunter-wood-1943.jpg

In this painting of the battle, MG42's are mounted starboard of and on what appears to be a makeshift platform aft of the 20mm. Note however, that they are in 2 twin mounts. The 88mm had also been blown off prior to the two ships locking together, but this is not shown. Also add in the fact that the crew might have mistaken 34's for 42's.