27 Rifles Stolen From Fort Irwin

[Feuer Frei!]

I mean, what the hell? From a Military Base? :nope:

More than two dozen assault rifles have been stolen from a Southern California military base, and investigators sought the public's help as they looked to arrest suspects and recover the weapons, federal officials said Friday.Twenty-six AK-74 assault rifles and one Dragunov sniper rifle were stolen from a supply warehouse at Fort Irwin in San Bernardino County on July 15, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives says in a statement.
Some arrests have been made and one rifle has been recovered, but the agency is offering a reward of up to $10,000 for information leading to further arrests, the statement said.



ATF spokesman Special Agent Christian Hoffman could not say when reached by phone how many were arrested, whether they were military or civilian or what motive they may have had.
He referred those questions to military officials, who made the arrests. Phone and email messages left late Friday for a spokesman from the U.S. Army Criminal Investigations Command, which is investigating the theft along with the ATF and the FBI, were not immediately returned.
Hoffman also could not say why word of the theft did not become public for two weeks, but said his agency decided to issue a news release because of the potential danger the loose weapons posed.
"We determined that there was a public safety issue with the guns getting out on the street," he said.


SOURCE (http://www.military.com/news/article/27-rifles-stolen-from-fort-irwin.html)

[Stealhead]

I 100% guarantee that this was an inside job some military members had to be involved in this.

I know that some time in the late 80's or early 90's the USAF OSI and the FBI busted a huge arms smuggling ring at a US air force base there where supply people,Security Police(MPs)and others involved. They had been selling arms and I think the FBI found out from an informant they told the Air Force and some OSI guys infiltrated certain units to find out.They actually got the informant to ask for an F-16 engine and the corrupt supply and SPs where going to go though with it but they got busted.

Ever since then they get very suspicious when a unit orders certain things and if they spot something the OSI will come knocking that is why they require an NCO to look over any supply order before it goes into the system.

I assume the Army is not so watchful.

As much as I hate to say this you simply can not trust that simply because a person is in the military that they are law abiding.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Waiting for B61s and nuke tipped missiles to come available... :yawn:

[Platapus]

As much as I hate to say this you simply can not trust that simply because a person is in the military that they are law abiding.

We used to say that you could lock an EOD troop in a small room with nothing but two large solid iron balls.

Come back later and one of the iron balls is broken and the other one is missing, and the EOD troop knows nothing. :D

[Skybird]

I love the sight of those two German barracks (one of them being the HQ of the German-Dutch corps I think), whose gates I occasionally pass on bike. Those are military installations with soldiers inside, I assume.

The sentry duty - is notr run by Bundeswehr soldiers, but is run by private guards from a business company. I think that sends an unwanted impression to any potential enemy for a future conflict.

An army that needs foreign parking lot guards to get protected and to guard its installations. Great.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

An army that needs foreign parking lot guards to get protected and to guard its installations. Great.
:har:

[MothBalls]

but is run by private guards from a business company. I think that sends an unwanted impression to any potential enemy for a future conflict.

An army that needs foreign parking lot guards to get protected and to guard its installations. Great.That's probably the same situation that caused the disappearance of the rifles in the original story.

The US military has changed it's thinking over the past few decades. The military used to be 100% self sufficient. They cooked their own meals, did all of their own logistics, medical services, payroll, etc... all by using military members to do it.

These people are actually expensive, the military pension system paid 50% salary and medical for life after just 20 years of service. People could get out at 38 years old and get a pension with full benefits for life. So during the first 10 years, salary may be cheap, but they retire at the highest rank ever held.

So now the focus is on soldiers being trained to fight and use contractors to provide all of the support services. Of course this sounds like a better way to go, so the soldiers could be better trained and focused on their mission, but we all know how well the government handles defense contracts.

More than likely (just my wild arsed guess), some contracted security service with a minimum wage guard was sleeping while thieves backed up a truck and made of with crates full of training weapons.

In the old days, you never saw stories like this (because everyone was ordered to not say anything) or you'd see heads on a platter and commanders getting fired. Now, I'll bet the minimum wage guard just got moved to a new installation on a different contract, and will be guarding nuclear warheads next week.

[Stealhead]

We used to say that you could lock an EOD troop in a small room with nothing but two large solid iron balls.

Come back later and one of the iron balls is broken and the other one is missing, and the EOD troop knows nothing. :D

I'd say it applies to any troop no matter their field for some reason or another during the time span that I was stationed in Germany it seemed that some SPs,MPs,and Load masters could not resist the urge to traffic drugs.Over a two year period a total of about 5 people from those army and air force fields got busted though that was only a handful out of easily over a 1000 MPs and SPs in Germany at the time still it is a bit tarnishing.

They where not the only ones either as for the number of times I smelled pot smoke in the dorms there must have been others.

[FIREWALL]

Those BOOBS wait 2 weeks then..... decide it's a Public Safety Issue.

This is maddnes. What next ? MISSLES !!!! :o

[TLAM Strike]

Waiting for B61s and nuke tipped missiles to come available... :yawn:
Just get me a mini sub capable of diving to depths greater than 5,000 meters and I'll get you all the nuclear warheads you want! :O:

... well 14 of them at least... ;)

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Just get me a mini sub capable of diving to depths greater than 5,000 meters and I'll get you all the nuclear warheads you want! :O:

... well 14 of them at least... ;)
Would this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MIR_%28submersible%29) be sufficient? :DL



:D

[Anthony W.]

My cousin stole a Humvee from a National Guard armory.

This does not surprise me as much as it should.

[KaptCosper]

Why'd they take russian weapons?:hmmm:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Why'd they take russian weapons?:hmmm:
I would guess that 5.45x39mm cartridge to be more easily available from blackmarket. That is my best guess.

AK-47 sacrifices accuracy to gain reliability. Do any one know is that also true with AK-74? If yes then that would propably be another reason... again guessing.

[Stealhead]

The older AK-47 round would be far more available on the black market.Though you get the guns black market and buy readily available legal ammo(not necessarily legally acquired) in most cases unless you something AP and if you wanted that going with a 5mm over a 7mm would seem illogical.

My guess is seeing as the AK-74 is much less common on the US market they got attention simply for that reason it is something different there can not be very many legal or illegal fully autonomic AK-74's out there.That being said the 5.45x39mm round is not as readily available as 7.62x39 or .223 which are both quite common and it makes poor sense to have a weapon that uses uncommon(though not really rare) ammo.

The AK-47 and AK-74 are fairly alike in most respects so the accuracy is about alike though the smaller round would more accurate generally.Also the AK-47/74 is still quite accurate enough to get the job done trust me.Crime groups though are not so concerned about pin point accuracy anyway they tend to pump lead so the AK suits them rather well.

This was in a region of CA where Mexican gangs are rife so I have no doubt that these guns are in the hands of cartels and where "ordered" by them in light they have plenty of ammo then and also are likely to be fairly well trained in the use of small arms it seems as though some might also have had GP30 launchers attached as well weak.I bet that they where taken from main force Taliban fighters originally.

[Ducimus]

If i'm not mistaken Fort Irwin is a national guard post. Which would explain the theft in my opinion. Security wise, national guard posts are the most lax. Hell, i think that tank that was stolen in the 80's came off of a national guard armory.

edit:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNwR9f0o1NM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msPrOIAVUZo

[Jimbuna]

This would never happen in the UK :nope:





We've nothing left worth stealing :doh:

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

This would never happen in the UK :nope:





We've nothing left worth stealing :doh:
I have understood so too and what few is left is kindly transported out via frontdoor by Her Majesty's helpful subjects. :DL

I remember that there was thread on this subject sometime ago.

[Stealhead]

Yeah National Guard and Reserve posts are easy pickings rather lax and tye also are often not in the best part of town either.Still I am guessing that someone inside was involved which does not surprise me with Guard or Reserves.Not to say that they are all bad.

[Ducimus]

Yeah National Guard and Reserve posts are easy pickings rather lax and tye also are often not in the best part of town either.Still I am guessing that someone inside was involved which does not surprise me with Guard or Reserves.Not to say that they are all bad.


Well, there ARE more gangbanger's wearing a uniform these days. Especially in the army. They'll take nearly any body they can get.

[Stealhead]

Yes this is true and I think it is a good and a bad thing.Some of these folks the military is a good chance to get away from gang lifestyle so for the ones that are wanting to change their lives the military is a very good thing.

In my experience though alot of the ones getting into trouble where not the type that you'd expect.For example about a year before I got out of the AF I had to go to some course about drug and criminal activity in the USAF not sure what the point was to be honest I was a SSGT and only NCOs where at this thing so I guess they wanted us to be on the look out for certain behaviors.

At any rate they showed us information about the folks that got busted mainly for drugs either trafficking or selling and most of these guys where white kids and seemingly on the right track before they got caught some had even made Senior Airman BTZ(a program I always thought was bull****:D).

The big issue was and I am sure still is Ecstasy easy to hide easy to sell and for some reason many young people do not view it as they do other drugs.Of course when a military member does one thing there is nothing to stop them from getting into other criminal acts.