Effective torpedo distances?

[Devil_dog1975]

Ok so i started my campain in the earliest year 41? Anyhow im using the first torps you get on a type vii. Now I read somewhere that effective range is anywhere from 500 - 1000m . Now I always miss at that range. But the funny thing is I have enourmous success from ranges of 2500 - 3500. Is it because they are not detecting me and changing course?

also what is the max effective range of the basic torp?

[Paul Riley]

I tend to always fire from 1000m if I can,or as close as 300 - 500m in low visibility like fog,or a dark stormy night.

Not sure why you have more success the further out you are,but I know the minimum range is 300m (any closer and the torpedo will not arm),and I would have to say the maximum range would be about 8000m,or the limit of visibility range.When you get radar you may even be able to fire beyond this range,but the chances of hitting anything would virtually be nil.Its always better to get closer for two main reasons:
1 - the closer you are the less time the target ship will have to evade and zig zag
2 - even if the torpedo should lose its depth it should still hit the target

In real life most commanders fired from about 600m,in an ideal situation that is.

I recommend the following book,a lot of technical information is in it,there is even a section on attacking distances
http://www.amazon.co.uk/U-Boat-Commanders-Handbook/dp/0939631210

[Devil_dog1975]

Are there any charts for detection ranges, I know this maybe impossible given weather conditions.

[Paul Riley]

Are there any charts for detection ranges, I know this maybe impossible given weather conditions.

Not sure mate,try using Google and look up things like 'allied radar WWII detection range' , the same could go for 'allied sonar during WWII' and you could compare these with the German counterparts.I do know though that allied radar was far superior to German radar,but the Germans had very good sonar technology later on.
In SH3 you could get detected by allied radar at ranges such as 20km and beyond.
Also,it would be safe to assume that the GWX team modified these values since the stock release.

[Missing Name]

I like being up to 1000 meters away from lone merchants/micro convoys. Convoys are anywhere from 3000 meters away to sitting in the middle of it. For task forces, no closer than 3000 meters, and that's a big risk.

As far as the electric torpedoes go (TII or TIII), the maximum range appears to be anywhere from 4000 to 6000 meters on the impact setting. Is this GWX simulating different battery charges or is it just a fluke?

[Paul Riley]

Are there any charts for detection ranges, I know this maybe impossible given weather conditions.

Some of this information may be found in the above book.
For the cheap price this would be a wise investment if you are serious about UBoat technical data.

[Pisces]

Well, the book maybe interesting in it's own right, but let's not forget we are playing a game that pretends to be a simulation but isn't completely realistic. ;) It's the game that makes the deciscion if it get's detected. Not history.

I too don't understand why you have more luck at hitting more distant targets than closer ones. Closer ones surely have better odds, as they look bigger from up short. If it does detect the torpedo then you should be able to see them speeding up or divert. If you are detected then DDs will start firing on you when they are in range. Pretty hard not to notice.

But you haven't really explained much about how you do your tracking, and shoot setups. Maybe the solution lies there.

[Devil_dog1975]

Well, the book maybe interesting in it's own right, but let's not forget we are playing a game that pretends to be a simulation but isn't completely realistic. ;) It's the game that makes the deciscion if it get's detected. Not history.


That is my point. I'm willing to do my own research by playing, but was jsut looking for some premade graphs (i like graphs, its like pictures for math) and other stuff that explains how the game models visual ship detection and torpedo efective ranges. stuff like that. Maybe its all in the manual, idk. I probably should read it first.

[Pisces]

Well, I don't use Type 1's during the day because of the bubble trail. Some say that only warships (DD) can react to detected torpedos (which I hardly ever attack), but personally I don't care. I don't want to blow any bit of my stealth and attack. So, most of my attacks are during the night. Atleast past 21:00. I suppose the year might make a bit of a difference, but it shouldn't be hard to hit from up close. (500-1000m)

[Jimbuna]

Electrics during the day and T1's at night.

[Paul Riley]

Electrics during the day and T1's at night.

Would you recommend a 50/50 loadout of both electrics and bubblers?.
I personally dont use electrics,but I may someday.Because most of my attacks are no greater than 1000m I can usually get away with bubblers.

[Snestorm]

TI G7A: 7500 meters at 40 knots (The good stuff!).
TII G7E: 3000 meters at 30 knots. (Most common torpedo).
TIII G7E: 5000 meters at 30 knots. ( The new most common torpedo).

Although the G7A was judged to be the superior torpedo, it did not lend well to the mass production needed. Thus, the majority of torpedoes carried were G7E.

[Jimbuna]

Would you recommend a 50/50 loadout of both electrics and bubblers?.
I personally dont use electrics,but I may someday.Because most of my attacks are no greater than 1000m I can usually get away with bubblers.

If your firing from 1000m or less then a 'bubbler' will probably suffice....the electric helps you in evading detection to some extent.

[Paul Riley]

If your firing from 1000m or less then a 'bubbler' will probably suffice....the electric helps you in evading detection to some extent.

You know,one day in the future I plan to begin a campaign where I only target military vessels,and to aid in major offensives such as depriving the Ruskies supplies during Stalingrad etc.Electrics would DEF be needed against most warships I reckon,just to give you that extra time to pull away after launching without being detected.
Any thoughts on this?

[Jimbuna]

You know,one day in the future I plan to begin a campaign where I only target military vessels,and to aid in major offensives such as depriving the Ruskies supplies during Stalingrad etc.Electrics would DEF be needed against most warships I reckon,just to give you that extra time to pull away after launching without being detected.
Any thoughts on this?

The way the AI works is....once a vessel is hit, the escort has a rough idea which side of the convoy you've attacked from and the quadrant (attacking from within the convoy gives you a better chance because you could be on one of two sides).

One way of detecting the above could be a sighting of the torpedo wake, now take away that possibility by using an electric and you have lessened the odds against you.

After the torpedo has hit the target the escorts AI has to make a decision which area to search and if they guess wrong you have obviously more time to make your escape (providing you don't make much noise).

[Fish In The Water]

...(attacking from within the convoy gives you a better chance because you could be on one of two sides).

Which is why it's always optimum to raid the chickens from inside the coop. :yep:

[brazuca22]

In game range data on these torpedoes is 1,8km. Is this right or the range is more like 3000m as mentioned above?

[TorpX]

You know,one day in the future I plan to begin a campaign where I only target military vessels,and to aid in major offensives such as depriving the Ruskies supplies during Stalingrad etc.Electrics would DEF be needed against most warships I reckon,just to give you that extra time to pull away after launching without being detected.
Any thoughts on this?

Imo, having a fast (and reliable) torpedo is more important than having a trackless one. Firing solution errors are minimized with a fast torpedo, but increased with a slow one. This is more the case with faster targets.

[scott_c2911]

I completely snubbed the TIIs throughout. They are slow and unreliable and you need loads of them to put a dent in something. TIs are fast, reliable and they worked well for me. I then started using the FAT torpedoes and the TIII electric as they became available. As for the wakes the dds generally found me whatever torpedo I used.

[BigWalleye]

Imo, having a fast (and reliable) torpedo is more important than having a trackless one. Firing solution errors are minimized with a fast torpedo, but increased with a slow one. This is more the case with faster targets.




Amen!:up:

[brazuca22]

Yes indeed! TII's are very unreliable especialy with magnetic pistol! They tend to detonate before getting under the keel. TI are the best choice for me too.

[sublynx]

I use TII's because I am under the impression that the U-boats mostly had them on-board. Usually I only carry TI's in the external storages.

The escorts haven't found me the last 4 or five attacks I've made, IIRC. I have no idea if that is because of me shooting from very long range, or the eels being electric.

I would love to have TI's, though. I miss a lot, and carrying TI's might enable me sinking something by accident.

Does anybody have any info on:

1. The numbers of TI's and TII's manufactured? I haven't found much info on numbers while googling
2. How the torpedo loadout was decided 1939 - 1942? Captain's choice, or was it an order coming from higher up?

[Zosimus]

I've used both T1s and T2s and haven't seen much of a difference. I used T1s exclusively when I was based out of Wilhelmshaven, but now that I've started a new campaign in Lorient, I prefer T2s. Unfortunately when you dock at someplace that isn't Lorient, the system gives you its classic setup of a mix of T1s and T2s. It's not really a problem, though.

I just hope one day to get GNATs. I think I will use them exclusively when I get some.

[Von Tonner]

2. How the torpedo loadout was decided 1939 - 1942? Captain's choice, or was it an order coming from higher up?

I would very much doubt that a loadout would be at the discretion of the Captain.

Donitz I would think would be the one determining the type of torp loaded at any given time taking into account what his objectives were, torp developments, proven testing, reliabilty, availability etc, etc

Why I believe this to be the case is in "War Beneath the Sea" a number of references are made which give some insight as to who was calling the shots. Such as the following:
"Donitz had also reminded COs of their new weapons (T5 and T4) ... (these) new weapons in which Donitz placed his faith were both offensive and defensive" (pg 365)

[sublynx]

U- boat Commander's handbook says that the torpedoes should be launched from close range. The book doesn't like the bubbles that give away the u-boats position, and it also states that one should not pass an opportunity to attack despite risking being located after attack. Dönitz also seemed to pay a lot of attention to torpedoes, and manufacturing G7a's was more expensive than the producing of G7e's. Everything seems to point towards a major headquarters preference for TII's despite what the captains would have liked.

[Nerazzurri]

U- boat Commander's handbook says that the torpedoes should be launched from close range. The book doesn't like the bubbles that give away the u-boats position

I've been using TIIs. I assumed when firing TIs across the bows of merchants in a convoy to reach the the furthest column, that when they pass in front of the nearest column that ship could raise the alert in time to initiate zig-zagging soon enough for your first torpedo to miss.

I wonder if this behaviour is modelled in the game or if I'm being paranoid??

[BigWalleye]

I've been using TIIs. I assumed when firing TIs across the bows of merchants in a convoy to reach the the furthest column, that when they pass in front of the nearest column that ship could raise the alert in time to initiate zig-zagging soon enough for your first torpedo to miss.

I wonder if this behaviour is modelled in the game or if I'm being paranoid??

Even if it is modeled in the game, I'm not sure that lumbering merchants could get out of the way of a 42 kt torpedo.

But what works for you works for you. Just because you're paranoid, that doesn't mean they are not out to get you! And I wouldn't be surprised if there were RL Kaleuns who used the same tactic for the same reason. It's the kind of caution that made old submariners.

Good luck and good hunting.

[sublynx]

I remember once firing a TI and missing, but the ship lighted searchlights anyway. I think NYGM's ship are all modified so that they can't stop or accelerate unnaturally quickly, but don't quote me on that.

I kind of assume the ships would have a chance of seeing the trails, even if that is not true in the game.

[BigWalleye]

I think NYGM's ship are all modified so that they can't stop or accelerate unnaturally quickly....

Not as much as one might like. Thomsen's Parameters App (http://www.subsim.com/mods1/nygm/ThomsenParamApp.7z) will let you easily fix them, though.

[sublynx]

Thanks I'll give this one a look :)

[Nerazzurri]

Even if it is modeled in the game, I'm not sure that lumbering merchants could get out of the way of a 42 kt torpedo.

Absolutely.

Where I have my doubts (without any evidence whatsoever!:oops:) is maybe the ship being able to alter course just enough to deflect a torpedo without the impact pistol getting activated.

I guess I should really add a couple of TIs in my next load-out just to see :hmmm:

Cheers.

[The Dark Wolf]

T3's are a favorite of mine, and I try to get to around 800 meters.

"When your target's image fills your scope at 10x you are close enough!" :yeah: