Manual torp'ing, when to fire?

[YuriJanssen]

Hi!

I recently purchased SH3 on steam and decided to give it a good shot, i must say the game is really fun once you get the hang of navigating, intercepting and blowing up stuff (although i havent sank many tonnes yet) but theres one question that has been on my mind all the time now so i might just ask.

How does the gyro direction for the torpedo's work? for now because of my lack of experience i intercept targets and attack them from a 90 degree angle wich works fine, i can keep my distance, measure his speed (by doing 3 marks with the 3:15 rule), set his AOB to 90 on the side he is getting attacked on and i measure the range just a while before he arrives (why actually do i have to do this?). All this i've learned from the following tutorial:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961

What i can't figure out is when to exactly fire the torpedos to make that one torp kill more likely to happen, for now i usually fire 3 at a time but that's often a waste because sometimes one misses or its a one torp kill afterall and the other ones just smash into a sinking ship.

Can anyone give me a guideline on when to fire? or is it a guess you make every single time? the tutorial says wait for the juiciest part to appear in the crosshair, but to me that seems like if i fire that late the torpedos just go past it on the backside. i just want a relatively accurate way to make sure the torpedo hits where i want it to hit

BTW: im using GWX3 and the 16km mod enabled, don't really want to make one big modfest out of my game though.

Thanks!

[sublynx]

If your torpedoes miss the intended aiming spot, you have a shooting solution that is wrong. (Well, the solution is always wrong at least a little bit.) You need to get a better solution and/or minimize the effect of the solution's misestimations. Get as close as you can get and use a torpedo that is fast. The sooner the torpedo hits, the less time the misestimations of the solution have to warp the result.

I think there might be a slight error in Dantenoc's tutorial you refer to - it sets the AOB as 90 degrees, but at the shooting moment you can see quite clearly in the screenshot that the ship's AOB is not yet 90 degrees. It's more like 70 - 80 degrees.

The case of range is theoretically irrelevant if your solution is good. However the bigger the misestimations in your solution are, the more a misestimation in range affects the result. I'm no mathematician nor a torpedo shooting specialist and I hope someone more savvy with the trigonometry of torpedo shooting can help you out here.

If not, look for more shooting tutorials. There's plenty of ways to catch these fish. There's one very interesting tutorial in Carnavaro's document collection if I remember correctly, that learns you how to set up for a 90 degree shot without any need whatsoever to gather range data. You can download it from the downloads section.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1487

[YuriJanssen]

I'll look into that, thanks for the tip!

[Paul Riley]

Yuri,
Here is what I do,and its pretty easy to learn.I will also assume you play with manual targeting?

1 - first make sure the manual/auto switch is flipped to manual (green light)
2 - aqquire all the neccessary data for the attack,speed etc,and input these into the torpedo computer
3 - set the bearing to either 90 degrees port or starboard,whichever side you intend to hit
4 - set the angle on bow to 90 degrees port or starboard,whichever side you are from the target ship (the exact angle on bow is irrelevant,as you will soon see)
5 - now lock the computer again,until it switches to red
6 - lock your attack periscope to your target and fire when target crosses the 0 marker.The torpedo computer will constantly update the firing angle for you prior to firing,so as you can see from earlier it doesnt matter what you input into the computer regarding bearing or AOB,just set each dial to a simple 90 degrees respectively
7 - range isnt too important so long as the torpedo track is straight,or as close to straight as possible.Range will become more important if you are firing while on the move with your target,or a 'running fight' as it was called.These shots are parallel shots and not perpendicular (facing the target).You can also aim for specific points on a ship,just unlock your scope,and point it at the section you want to hit.I personally always fire when target section is either at 350 or 10 on the scope when at a range of about 1000m.

Hope some of this was useful for you.

Good luck out there,and come back in one piece,we dont want you torpedoing yourself do we :DL

[Tinman764]

And very important - open your tube before firing or your solution is knackered :yeah:

[Canovaro]

There's one very interesting tutorial in Carnavaro's document collection if I remember correctly, that learns you how to set up for a 90 degree shot without any need whatsoever to gather range data. You can download it from the downloads section.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1487

Yes the Torpedo Bearing Table is what you are looking for. It's in the Sheets directory of that zip file.
And very important: open tubes beforehand like Tinman764 suggests.

[Paul Riley]

Yes,opening the tubes before you LOS! is vitally important ;)

[Pisces]

The gyro angle is simply the bearing to which the torpedo needs to turn to get to the impact point, based on the speed you set. If this (gyro) is 0 then the torpedo moves straight ahead out of the tube. In this case it doesn't matter what range you entered into the TDC dial. (the range is a factor to correct the angle to the impact point from the forward placement of the torpedo turning point, with reference to the angle from the periscope location) The range is only important if the torpedo needs to turn a significant amount of degrees(>15 or so) from 0. So, yeah, this is probably best to minimize aiming errors. One less variable to worry about. Set the periscope such that the gyro angle is 0 (or 180 if shooting from aft), then wait to fire when the juicy part passes the wire.

However, this all assumes the target speed is set correctly. Speed is the critical ingredient in a correct hit. It defines how much the torpedo needs to turn away (lead) from the direction of the periscope. I hope you meant you averaged the speed over 3 times 3m15s marks, so total motion over 9m45s divided by 3. Then 1 knot for every 100 meters, and don't ignore the decimal part that is left.

AOB needs to be set to whatever it will show when the wire is on it. If you setup your position and subs heading perpendicular to the target's track, then when the target is dead ahead, his AOB will be 90. This is when you want the torpedo to hit because it shows it's broadside to the torpedo. With the periscope temporarily on 0 degree you set the AOB dial to 90 left or right. Once the TDC switch is set back to auto-update (AOB will be automatically adjusted when you turn the periscope), you can adjust the periscope to get the gyro back to 0. You'll see that the persicope is now around 5-15 degrees from 0. This amount of lead is roughly proportional to the target speed. And now it is just patience. And don't forget to open those doors.

If you decide to shoot with a salvo spread, then you need to be sure you know how big the target is at that range (in terms of degrees) At 1000m 1 degree is 17.5 meters wide. So take the target's length into account. If you don't know and just venture a guess then the 2 outside torpedos of a 3 spread might pass harmlessly aside. Waste not, want not.

[Snestorm]

Pick the method from above, that suits you.
Fire when the Gyro Angle reads "000".
This will be before the target reaches 000 in your scope.

[YuriJanssen]

Great, thanks for all the info and tips, i will practice some more. although i have tried the method that Canovaro has in his tutorial/sheet files and it seems to work great, just have to test if it works from longer distances too.

Oh yeah, i tried firing with closed tubes but it kinda ruined the firing solution indeed, fun times!

Thanks :)

[Canovaro]

although i have tried the method that Canovaro has in his tutorial/sheet files and it seems to work great, just have to test if it works from longer distances too.

Thanks :)

Great that it works out for you. You will find that distance does not matter with this method. You only need to know course and speed.

[YuriJanssen]

I have another question regarding course, i have the map updates on now, but it doesn't really seem realistic to me having a perfect GPS update on the navigation map of the target. is there another way of finding out targets course without this map update thing? I like my sim as realistic as can be, this just seems too easy to be true ;).

Or do i just have to guess its course and line up 90 degrees to that.

[Andrewsdad]

Salute !!!

There are several ways to determine the targets course. The method I use when surfaced is to keep the target at extreme range so he doesn't see you and have the Watch Officer report the bearing and range. Start the stopwatch and plot the position data using the protractor and ruler.

Wait 3 minutes and 15 seconds and do it again. Now you have a plot of his course and by measuring the distance between the two marks you have his speed. It is always a good idea to do this several times at 3 minute 15 second intervals to help reduce any errors. Now you can set up a intercept and GETTUM!

Of course, you must be careful not to get spotted or he will begin to zig-zag and mess up your speed/course data. Or if armed he may take some pot-shots at you !!!!

For submerged workup of a target, review this thread: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=183225

Watch this video for a great treatment of submerged tracking and attack: http://blip.tv/nefelodamon

Good Hunting !!!

AD

[sublynx]

I have another question regarding course, i have the map updates on now, but it doesn't really seem realistic to me having a perfect GPS update on the navigation map of the target. is there another way of finding out targets course without this map update thing? I like my sim as realistic as can be, this just seems too easy to be true ;).

Or do i just have to guess its course and line up 90 degrees to that.

If you want go really hardcore, download this manual from 1941:

http://ia700400.us.archive.org/0/items/maneuveringboard00unit/maneuveringboard00unit.pdf

What you need is Case XI "To determine course, speed, and relative position of a target by bearings alone" , page 26 on the pdf. To be able to use case XI you need to understand "Techniques used in case IX", page 22 in the manual.

A somewhat less theoretical approach could be Hitman's "Angriffsscheibe":

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=114351&page=13

I believe Hitman also made an excellent manual of how to make and use an attack disc that were used in submarines of that era. You should be able to find that one as well, if it wasn't already on the files that you can download from the link above in the link.

[YuriJanssen]

Ok, i've turned off the map updates and am now trying to learn to sink some without it. it's a lot harder to figure out it's course but practice makes perfect i guess!

Thanks for all the tips and help ;), im liking SH3 so far!

[Fish In The Water]

Thanks for all the tips and help ;), im liking SH3 so far!

Hope you have a blast (literally)! :rock:

[sublynx]

practice makes perfect i guess!

And sometimes it's even more fun practicing a new skill than playing after the skill has become routine.:)

[TorpX]

And sometimes it's even more fun practicing a new skill than playing after the skill has become routine.:)

This is true. I will always remember the great sense of accomplishment I derived when I first learned to compute manual firing solutions in SHCE. :yep:

[yubba]

nothin like a well placed shot, or a well thought out attack, the sounds of crushing bulkheads and then it's miller time.