Are passenger/cargo ships viable targets?

[Paul Riley]

I have just been tracking a ship for a good hour (real time) and got set up for a submerged attack.I was convinced it was a merchant of some sort,yet as it got nearer I noticed an interesting stripe running across the top of the hull and the bridge looked unique.Double checking the rec manual I realised this was no merchant,this was a passenger/cargo (my first sighting of a passenger ship to be honest) ship.I broke off from the attack,blew ballast,reported the ship,circled the terrified ship like a hungry shark,submerged again then proceeded back to my previous spot in AN 16.I dont really fancy sinking passenger ships carrying innocent civilians.Was this the right thing to do?,would HQ have penalised me in some way for sinking it,or am I just too noble to be a heartless beast of the depths? :smug:
I have one torpedo left in my rather humble IIA,have sunk 2 ships already on this (2nd) patrol,and am very eager for a third kill before calling it a day.

Any thoughts on my action here?

Cheers.

[Kapt Z]

I'm in a IIa myself at the start of the war(Oct 39) and I believe I received a message ordering us to not sink passenger ships. In the spirit of 'realism' I will not sink any until I hear otherwise.

Once I get the go ahead? Anything flying a Allied flag, short of a hospital ship, is toast.

[Paul Riley]

I'm in a IIa myself at the start of the war(Oct 39) and I believe I received a message ordering us to not sink passenger ships. In the spirit of 'realism' I will not sink any until I hear otherwise.

Once I get the go ahead? Anything flying a Allied flag, short of a hospital ship, is toast.

Yes,come to think of it I also recall recieving messages regarding refraining from attacking passenger ships,until of course we get the green light.
Thanks :yep:

[sublynx]

Here's an excerpt from BdU's War Diary on the second of October, 1939 (taken from U-boat archive.net):

"A further order from Naval War Staff states:

Ships which, in the view of the C.O., are equipped to carry more than 120 passengers, are to be regarded as passenger ships. M.D.V. 87 (T.N.: German Naval official publication) explains this further. The main points to note are the number of boats - 4 or more each side of the ship, length and number of promenade decks, bull's eyes.

Boats were instructed on these orders.

The term "passenger ship" is a very wide one, and its final definition left to the C.O.'s impressions. It must be realized that in practice this order is open to very wide interpretation, especially as the submerged boat's powers of observation are limited."

So you're good to go if you wish to. I think the 2000 GRT passenger/cargo in GWX is a small passenger ship, but under 120 passengers. I don't think there was much civilian traffic during the war, but if you want to give time for their evacuation you could try to hit the ship in a way that would sink the ship slowly. (Avoid hitting the bow or the keel and not too deep.)

[frau kaleun]

The game doesn't care, as long as it's not a friendly or neutral.

Any inclination not to sink one would be purely subjective or a way to enhance realism by following the "orders" from BdU.

And IIRC those buggers are hard to take down...

http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5100/5583145564_bcff421244_z.jpg

...so it may be smarter to save your ammo for a juicier target anyway. :yep:

Personally I tend to focus on the "cargo" part of their designation, so the "passenger" part of it doesn't really deter me.

[f4wildweasel]

The first British ship lost in WWII was the SS Athenia, a passenger liner torpedoed by U-30 on 3 September 1939. 117 people, including 28 Americans, died in the sinking. Immediately afterwards, FdU ordered all U-boats to not attack passenger ships in any way, as to avoid another Lusitania incident. The captain of U-30 was ordered to Berlin to report on what happened, and it was decided to cover up the attack, denying it was a U-boat and altering U-30's patrol logs to hide this (it was later clarified in the Nuremburg War trials).

Long story short, if you want to be historically accurate, you would avoid attacking anything that looked like a passenger ship in the early war. Later on, once you start seeing cannons being put on these guys and the likelihood that they're carrying military personnel increases, maybe you want to attack them (or maybe not, it's always the commander's decision). Of course, hospital ships are right out. GWX will have you lined up and shot if you torpedo one of those!

[Sailor Steve]

GWX will have you lined up and shot if you torpedo one of those!
Now you know that's not true. GWX will not have you shot. But they'll make you wish you had been. :O:
:rotfl2:

[Paul Riley]

Thanks for the info here.
Makes sense to consider them as the war progresses as they may be transporting soldiers etc.(good point that weasel)

[Missing Name]

I attack them, because they are Passenger/Cargo ships. You never know if they are carrying a load of 40mm AA shells or rations. Also, any armed merchant is showing intent to shoot back. Which is why America often loses some ships during poor visibility in mid-1941.

I have a love/hate relationship with P/C's. They so much determination that I must admire them. But at the same time, they're hard to sink for whatever reason.

[FIREWALL]

You don't get negitive renoun for sinking one. P\C that is.

Only Neutrals and Hospital ships are a no no.

[Paul Riley]

You don't get negitive renoun for sinking one. P\C that is.

Only Neutrals and Hospital ships are a no no.

Thanks for the tip :yep:

[VONHARRIS]

I have no doubts in singing passeger/cargo ships so long they fly an Allied flag. They do give me a hard time to go down (3 torpedoes) but some have gone down with just ONE (1) 105mm shell!

[desirableroasted]

I hate those things.

Why the English are importing huge cargoes of balsa wood and ping-pong balls is beyond me.

[Iron Budokan]

Passenger ships are just so much meat for my torps. :yep:

[TorpX]

I hate those things.

Why the English are importing huge cargoes of balsa wood and ping-pong balls is beyond me.

Good one. :har:

[Missing Name]

Just on my last patrol: P/C. Hit. Large explosion, split in two. Two hours later, still afloat and burning.

SH3 Commander says:
Ship sunk! Grid AN 14
SS Martti Ragnar (Passenger/Cargo), 1859 tons. Cargo: General Cargo. Crew: 30. Crew lost: 0

It's settled. General cargo = balsa wood.

[Sailor Steve]

Congratulations! I'm glad to see that Commander and my Ship Names mod are doing their jobs. The real Martti Ragnar was 2262 tons, but there doesn't seem to be any way to tie the tonnage to the name, so we take what we can get. I also don't have a picture, so I can't show you what she looked like, but at least you sank a real ship. :sunny:

[sublynx]

Congratulations! I'm glad to see that Commander and my Ship Names mod are doing their jobs. The real Martti Ragnar was 2262 tons, but there doesn't seem to be any way to tie the tonnage to the name, so we take what we can get. I also don't have a picture, so I can't show you what she looked like, but at least you sank a real ship. :sunny:

Here's a couple of pictures of Martti Ragnar:

http://www.merihistoria.fi/aineistot/2625/
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/38.html

[STEED]

I always sink Passenger ships as I need renown to buy up grades.

[BossMark]

I always lend them 1 0r 2 of my torpedoes, providing they an enemy of Germany

[Sailor Steve]

Here's a couple of pictures of Martti Ragnar:

http://www.merihistoria.fi/aineistot/2625/
http://www.uboat.net/allies/merchants/ships/38.html
Thanks, Sublynx! I'm surprised I didn't stuble across her at Uboat.net, as I use them as one of my main sources. Possibly she was one of the first ships I did, before I discovered them. Of course she wasn't a passenger cargo, which means I'm going to have to changer her category, which means I'll actually have to work on another update.

Oh well, easy come, easy go. :sunny:

[sublynx]

Thanks, Sublynx! I'm surprised I didn't stuble across her at Uboat.net, as I use them as one of my main sources. Possibly she was one of the first ships I did, before I discovered them. Of course she wasn't a passenger cargo, which means I'm going to have to changer her category, which means I'll actually have to work on another update.

Oh well, easy come, easy go. :sunny:

No problem :) I hope working on another update is not too much work :O:

[Pisces]

Shooting torpedoes at Passenger/Cargo ships is a lesson in futility! They won't go down!