Is it possible for ships clearly hit well below the waterline to remain afloat?

[Paul Riley]

Last night I hit a medium cargo in the foresection (one roughly below the stack and a second below the foremast) with 2 impact tips set to 5m.Just over an hour later the vessel began to slowly take on water and slow to a stop,and approx 30mins later began to sink on even keel.I didnt want to expend a third torpedo on it as I am currently in a small IIA and I only have 3 left,so this is the reason I hung around so long to see what happened.I dont really care how long it takes so long as that cargo hits the bottom!.
Would it be safe to say that this was normal for ships that had two gaping holes in their hulls,and is it also possible for ships to even remain afloat and carry on their journey? or,do all ships eventually sink in the end,due to a large hole being in their hull? ;)
NOTE - I have the realistic sinking times on.

Cheers.

[Paul Riley]

Do any of you think the torpedoes are slightly underpowered in GWX3,or are the ships hulls more resistant? I have even had SMALL (well under 4.000 tonnes!) cargo vessels take two shots and remain afloat,only slowing by a knot or two (although this doesnt happen all the time) :hmmm:
If the former,is there a mod that increases torpedo power slightly?.I do NOT want an underwater nuke here!

[Snestorm]

Some ships are compartmentalised better than others, and can be real tough guys.

[Paul Riley]

Some ships are compartmentalised better than others, and can be real tough guys.

Even in 1939? sure I can understand better welding techniques as the war progressed,but werent a lot of ships in the early phases old WWI vessels? especially the ones leased by America.

[Snestorm]

C2, C3, T2, T3 were fairly new designs.

How a ships is compartmented (water-tight bulkheads) has nothing to do with welding.

The C2 Cargo (GWX Medium Cargo) is a solid ship.
I've spent as many as five torpedoes to sink one C2.

If I had to play as a merchant, that would be my baby!

[sublynx]

I remember reading somewhere that one torpedoed shipwreck was just left floating once the sailors had been evacuated, then a U-boat pounded the wreck with a deck gun for tens of rounds, and then just left the wreck, that was still floating. Historically speaking it would be ok just to assess the damage done and make an assumption that the ship can't be sailed again and report to BdU a ship most likely sunk, eventually.

Of course the game engine doesn't simulate this, so if you would leave a ship waiting for it to sink and it didn't, you would have to modify the save game files to your liking, if you still wanted the renown that should be coming to you. Too much trouble IMO, just leave the ship, hope for best, and wait for the VII or IX - then you'll be able to blow wrecks to smithereens with that one extra torpedo. There's lots of fish in the seas that shipwreck came from. :arrgh!:

[Paul Riley]

I remember reading somewhere that one torpedoed shipwreck was just left floating once the sailors had been evacuated, then a U-boat pounded the wreck with a deck gun for tens of rounds, and then just left the wreck, that was still floating. Historically speaking it would be ok just to assess the damage done and make an assumption that the ship can't be sailed again and report to BdU a ship most likely sunk, eventually.

Of course the game engine doesn't simulate this, so if you would leave a ship waiting for it to sink and it didn't, you would have to modify the save game files to your liking, if you still wanted the renown that should be coming to you. Too much trouble IMO, just leave the ship, hope for best, and wait for the VII or IX - then you'll be able to blow wrecks to smithereens with that one extra torpedo. There's lots of fish in the seas that shipwreck came from. :arrgh!:

As soon as I get out of this bathtub and into a VII with a decent deck gun i'll pound the buggers with that until a torpedo may be needed.
God,the IIA's are practically useless,unless you fancy a sail up the Thames with it,other than that :down:

[Captain Nemo]

As soon as I get out of this bathtub and into a VII with a decent deck gun i'll pound the buggers with that until a torpedo may be needed.
God,the IIA's are practically useless,unless you fancy a sail up the Thames with it,other than that :down:

I started my current career in a Type II and whilst it's firepower is limited I did see some things during my coastal patrols that I hadn't seen before i.e. a British coastal convoy attacked by JU88's which was great to watch.

I'm now in a VIIC and the deck gun can come in handy for finishing off torpedoed ships, however be aware that during 1940 increasing numbers of merchants have guns and will fire back at you.

Nemo

[Paul Riley]

I started my current career in a Type II and whilst it's firepower is limited I did see some things during my coastal patrols that I hadn't seen before i.e. a British coastal convoy attacked by JU88's which was great to watch.

I'm now in a VIIC and the deck gun can come in handy for finishing off torpedoed ships, however be aware that during 1940 increasing numbers of merchants have guns and will fire back at you.

Nemo

I'd sooner have your Nautilus captain :up:

[sublynx]

God,the IIA's are practically useless,unless you fancy a sail up the Thames with it,other than that :down:

I feel your frustration too, with that damn type II I'm currently sailing with.:) If it had just one torpedo more... or even a 37 mm deck gun. It seems I'm always a little bit short on punching power.

I think type II would be interesting to try against a convoy, but so far I haven't seen any convoys in the areas I'm being sent to. And with five torpedoes, I have used them against single shipping anyways before there's any chance of sighting a convoy.

[Paul Riley]

I feel your frustration too, with that damn type II I'm currently sailing with.:) If it had just one torpedo more... or even a 37 mm deck gun. It seems I'm always a little bit short on punching power.

I think type II would be interesting to try against a convoy, but so far I haven't seen any convoys in the areas I'm being sent to. And with five torpedoes, I have used them against single shipping anyways before there's any chance of sighting a convoy.

I think you may have an increased chance of a convoy encounter as the war progresses,as more and more ships were used in a convoy for protection,so the noise would be greater underwater too.
Choke points are always your friends,and a bit of patience :03:
Best of luck out there.

[flag4]

Last night I hit a medium cargo in the foresection (one roughly below the stack and a second below the foremast) with 2 impact tips set to 5m.Just over an hour later the vessel began to slowly take on water and slow to a stop,and approx 30mins later began to sink on even keel.I didnt want to expend a third torpedo on it as I am currently in a small IIA and I only have 3 left,so this is the reason I hung around so long to see what happened.I dont really care how long it takes so long as that cargo hits the bottom!.
Would it be safe to say that this was normal for ships that had two gaping holes in their hulls,and is it also possible for ships to even remain afloat and carry on their journey? or,do all ships eventually sink in the end,due to a large hole being in their hull? ;)
NOTE - I have the realistic sinking times on.

Cheers.

yes it is possible. some never sink - are towed back to port and repaired. some just lie flat at water level awaiting their fate. depends how fatal the torp strike was.
some sink in minutes others hours or days. also depends what they are carrying.

[Paul Riley]

yes it is possible. some never sink - are towed back to port and repaired. some just lie flat at water level awaiting their fate. depends how fatal the torp strike was.
some sink in minutes others hours or days. also depends what they are carrying.

I have just this minute hit a tramp steamer in AN16 slightly behind the stack at 4m depth,vessel began to list slightly to the stern but after nearly 2hrs it is no lower in the water,so I fired a second aimed slightly behind the original impact site,steamer has two HUGE holes in its portside,and went down finally stern first,after two well placed shots.
Sank for around 1.600 GRT.And in the past I have nailed much larger ships with a single shot.
Oh well,this is the law of the sea I guess :nope:
Oh,I think they were carrying toilet rolls,they are gonna bloody need em for next time I return to AN16.
Thanks for the reply.

[Missing Name]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there were two ships in WWI that were both split in half but stayed afloat long enough to be salvaged. Then they welded the two halves together to make a new ship.

[Paul Riley]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there were two ships in WWI that were both split in half but stayed afloat long enough to be salvaged. Then they welded the two halves together to make a new ship.

Incredible :hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Not u-boats in the Atlantic, but here is the account by USS Whale of the difficulty of sinking some ships.
Fired three torpedoes. Three hits. One hit aft of his stack, the second blew wreckage up through forward hold and the third
hit aft. Target started turning toward us. Swung hard right and set up for a stern shot.

Fired single stern shot at range of 600 yards. Hit aft. This was a good hit, stopping the target cold. The target was
sinking by the stern, taking considerable port list. Took pictures, firmly convinced this was the graveyard of another
Japanese ship. Many of the crew had an opportunity to view the sinking ship through the periscope.

Having worked up to windward to observe target better, was astonished to find the fire under control and the list
corrected. Water was being pumped over the side through portable hoses. Fired another torpedo from the stern tube, but this
missed. Target was dead in the water, shooting wildly with deck guns.

Crew and passengers abandoned ship, although gun crew remained at posts. Target settled about ten feet overall and then
maintained its depth. Closed and fired sixth torpedo from bow tubes. This hit aft of superstructure depth.

Target still floating. Fired seventh torpedo from bow tubes. This hit with terrific concussion, but did not change trim or draft appreciably.
Fired eighth torpedo from stern tubes. This was heard to hit, but very little concussion was felt.

Getting dark. Target sinking slowly on an even keel, but still looks salvageable. There was no sign of life aboard,
although it was believed gun crews had not yet abandoned ship. Wishing to dispose of it before arrival of planes or rescue
ships, fired ninth torpedo. This hit right under stack and the explosion ripped away both sides of vessel about ten feet
below the main deck.

Target now settled more rapidly, the main deck being a few feet from wash condition at last observation. This vessel
had absorbed seven and possibly eight torpedo hits. The cargo must have been of such nature as to prevent her from sinking
more rapidly. Target was identified as the Heiyou Maru, 9,815 tons.

On retiring we found ourselves in the midst of eight boats full of survivors, approximately fifty men to each boat.
These men were dressed in both white and blue uniforms. One boat was passed close aboard, and survivors made ready to hit
the periscope with their oars.

On the other hand is the story of a Japanese merchant that was sunk...by a dud!
0540.
3rd. March, 1943.
From: Muroran, southern Hokkaido Island.
To: Shimizu, Shizuoka Prefecture.
No. 2303B.
Hokuto Maru, Bansei Maru, Kotai Maru, Sumida Maru, Taisei Maru (5).
auxiliary gunboat No. 2 Hiyoshi Maru (1).
At 0630 on the 4th. of March while at position 39.33N 142.07E, in the Todosaki Sea, Iwate Prefecture Hokuto Maru, a 2267 ton ship owned by the Nippon Yusen Kaisha Line was attacked by the U.S.S. Permit. Three torpedo tracks were seen, one struck the ship on the port side in the forward part of No. 1 hold area, it proved to be a dud. The following two missiles were avoided.

In fact Permit had fired three torpedoes and claimed damage on the target by one of them.

Immediately afterward a periscope was seen 250 meters of the port bow of Hokuto Maru, it was presumed that the enemy submarine was trying to get between the columns to conduct a second attack for shortly after it was seen on the surface.
The maru tried to ram the intruder but the move had to be aborted as she was likely to collide with the nearby Sumida Maru, so at 0637 Hokuto Maru resumed her position, by then the enemy had submerged.

Permit fired two torpedoes in a second attack about this time but made no claim for a sinking or damage.

At 0640 it was realized that the Hokuto Maru was taking in considerable water at the point of the dud torpedo impact, so attempts were made to stem the flow, also she headed towards the coast. By now she was down by the bow and it became vital to press onward, however at 0643 the engines came to a stop, a few minutes later abandon ship was ordered and her crew transferred to the No. 2 Hiyoshi Maru. Hokuto Maru continued to slowly sink, finally at 0712 her stern rose up vertically and under she went.
At the time she was carrying 2080 tons of coal.

[sublynx]

Lol Steve, talk about the role of luck and coincidence in war... What a great find! Thanks for the quotes :DL

[Paul Riley]

If I ever had to fire 9 torpedoes at a ship I would murder the entire crew,scuttle my UBoat while drunk and row to the nearest allied port! :o
Are you sure the ship wasnt really an intergalactic alien battleship in disguise?

[Andrewsdad]

Perhaps the cargo of 500,000 ping-pong balls had something to do with it. :)

AD

[OuNiS]

Yes it's possible. As I remember I read about that situations in Blair's "Hitlers's Uboat War" for example (or few Edwards's books). Some ships may sial under the balast (such wood or (better) cork, which is lighter than wood) and in this case they are harder to sink. Another way is a construction of the ship. Older tramp steamers are generally better to sink than modern freighters.

Ok. You must remember that I talked about real life situations not in a game life!

[Captain Nemo]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there were two ships in WWI that were both split in half but stayed afloat long enough to be salvaged. Then they welded the two halves together to make a new ship.

Seen it happen in SH3. I hit a passenger cargo with a couple of torps and it split in two and both halves remained afloat. I got the "She's going down" message so got the credit for the sinking even though it didn't sink as such. They remained afloat for the rest of the patrol, as occasionally I would pass back near the site where the red ship sunk icon was on the map and they were still there but both parts had drifted away from each other by some distance. I'll have to dig through my screen shots and if I have them will post them on this thread.

Nemo

[Osmium Steele]

Are you sure the ship wasnt really an intergalactic alien battleship in disguise?

http://www.liveforfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/yamato_style_concept.jpg

[VONHARRIS]

Or it might be this:
SPACE BATTLESHIP YAMATO
http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/3208/9c12d2.jpg

[Paul Riley]

http://www.liveforfilms.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/yamato_style_concept.jpg

Very,very sexy.You could win the war with that thing :D

[easterner9504]

The WW1 split was HMS Zulu & HMS Nubian two Tribal Class DD and recommissioned as HMS Zubian.

My problem is the Medium Cargo in GWX it has no intention of sinking as a class not as an anomaly. There entire reason to exist seems to be to steal torps from your tubes. A one hit kill is a triumph! 2 hit normal. 3+ not unknown.

I'm also less than thrilled when escorts take a torp and live, few did usually only when hit on extreme ends blowing off bow or stern but watertight enough not to sink.

[jreid666]

I can't remember where I saw it, but there were two ships in WWI that were both split in half but stayed afloat long enough to be salvaged. Then they welded the two halves together to make a new ship.

Would that happen to be the Taffelberg? Stuck a mine, limped home, then welded together i think. I maybe wrong though.

[Sailor Steve]

The post just above yours identified them correctly, Though neither one was actually split in half. One had her bow blown off, the other her stern.

On the other hand in WW2 HMS Javelin lost both stern and bow, but survived to be rebuilt.

And here's what you do with a split-in-two tanker.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=170723

[Jimbuna]

Classic :sunny:

[Stubudd]

nm...

[Maceaciadh]

I remember reading somewhere that one torpedoed shipwreck was just left floating once the sailors had been evacuated, then a U-boat pounded the wreck with a deck gun for tens of rounds, and then just left the wreck, that was still floating. Historically speaking it would be ok just to assess the damage done and make an assumption that the ship can't be sailed again and report to BdU a ship most likely sunk, eventually.

Of course the game engine doesn't simulate this, so if you would leave a ship waiting for it to sink and it didn't, you would have to modify the save game files to your liking, if you still wanted the renown that should be coming to you. Too much trouble IMO, just leave the ship, hope for best, and wait for the VII or IX - then you'll be able to blow wrecks to smithereens with that one extra torpedo. There's lots of fish in the seas that shipwreck came from. :arrgh!:

hmmm you just gave me a good idea for some modders. if a lucky shot managed to hit the props then once the ship comes to a stop the ship could be abandoned (as in the men disappear off the decks flare is launched and lifeboats are deployed etc). it happened once or twice when i fired a quick shot at a destroyer and running depth was slightly off. the torpedo goes right under the bow along the beam and explodes under the props but causes minimal flooding and the ship maintains operations. would be nice to see it abandoned and its AI turned off if it comes to a dead stop due to lack of props or destroyed boilers. i am sure in real life any ship with such heavy damage would want to move ship asap.

just a nice idea i think if any one wants to expand on it :D would like to see it in game

[Night60700]

Well this could be a few things at play.
First: You might not put a big hole in the ship, you just cause big cracks or you put a small hole in and they patched it up. The cargo could be the reason but the game doesn't simulate this. Contained flooding could be why they list or settle but don't sink. It could be a bug in the game.

But from what I have seen of GWX, whats really happening is the fact that flooding and not damage is what sinks ships. Try to hit the bow while they move, the force of the ship moving will press water into the ship. After that they should be slow, take your time and spread out the damage to both sides of the ship and both ends. If you see them in a convoy, take your time to line up a shot that will disable them if not sink them then wait for night and then use your deck gun from range while moving fast and turning. Take out their guns, if your movements are fast and random you should have enough time to destroy their guns, use manual targeting of the deck gun.
If you wish to use just torpedoes then as I said before, spread out the damage use magnetics to maximize damage. If the ship isn't moving aim for cargo hauls or other large rooms, your looking for low part of the ship most likely the bottom deck somewhere fore of the stack tower and superstructure.
But if at all possible, use your deck gun to start fires and do damage to the deck, top cargo, cabin, and all manner of other structures. This should reduce the rate they repair their ship and pump water out. That is why they had deck guns...to finish ships off.

Good luck.

[Twin Screws]

The tanker MV SAN DEMITRIO was one of these 'tough cookies', in 1940 pounded by the 'Admiral Sheer', she was abandoned in mid atlantic, but was eventually reboarded, patched up & sailed home. She was sunk 2 years later by U404.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_San_Demetrio

[Jimbuna]

The tanker MV SAN DEMITRIO was one of these 'tough cookies', in 1940 pounded by the 'Admiral Sheer', she was abandoned in mid atlantic, but was eventually reboarded, patched up & sailed home. She was sunk 2 years later by U404.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_San_Demetrio

It was made into a pretty good film as well:

http://uk.imdb.com/title/tt0039797/