SH3 Interception methods

[KaptCosper]

Im Brand new to submarine simulation, I've only run a few patrols in my career and sadly have no tonnage sunk, Ive looked at a few other post on this subject, and found that it averages around 20 confusing and drawn out steps, does anyone know an effective interception method that wouldnt take forever to use?:damn:

[andqui]

Here's one way to do it. Keep in mind there might be other ways that would be better, depending on the situation:

1. Get a good GUI mod. I use MaGui Final here (http://174.123.69.202/~subsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166320).
This has an AOB-finder wheel and an attack disk. Real Uboats did not have GPS installed and thus could not do most of the 20-step plotting techniques you see around. Instead, plotting targets is all about the relative position of your boat and the target. The tools in one of these will make this possible.

The attack disk is the main tool. The pdf here here (http://www.gamefront.com/files/13402461/Angriffsscheibe_Handbuch_3_pdf) is full of illustrated examples of the neat things it can do to make your job easier. The disk they use in the pdf is a tiny bit different than the one that comes with the above interface, but the principles are the same.

If by "intercept" you mean meeting a reported contact at the same place at the same time, then all you have to do is see the first two examples in the pdf. Follow the instructions, and turn the wheel nine times in the correct way, and you're good to go.

If by "intercept" you mean setting up an attack when you see a smudge of smoke on the horizon, read on. This is assuming that you're using the above MaGui and the tools in it.

1. You see a smudge of smoke on the horizon. After you get a bit closer, come to a full stop. Take note of the bearing of the target, and start the stopwatch. Watch the bearing change, and wait until the difference is at least 5 degrees from your first bearing. Then, record the new bearing, as well as the time elapsed. While the clock is still ticking, find the angle between the two bearings by subtraction; again, it should be at least 5 degrees.

2. Now you wait some more, until the same amount of time has elapsed. For example, if your second bearing was 4 minutes after the first, wait until the stopwatch shows 8 minutes. At this point, take a third bearing, and find the difference between that and the first bearing. You should now have two angles, that between the first and second and then between the first and third. Click on the navigator icon in the bottom right once, bringing up the avaliable orders. Then hold your mouse to the right side of the screen and you should see a wheel pop up. This is the AOB finder. Click, drag, and rotate the wheel so that the angle between the first and second bearings on the outside is lined up with the angle between the first and third bearings on the inside. Inside the little window at the top of the wheel, there is a number. This is the AOB of the target at the time of the first bearing. You're 75% done.

3. There are two buttons labelled "F" and "B" at the bottom middle, which bring up the front and back sides of the attack disk respectively. Open the front side. There are two things you can click and drag- the transparent pointer that contains two black boat outlines, and the inner circle. This part his hard to describe so bear with me. The outer scale is bearings from your boat- drag the pointer so that the black arrow at the tip points to your first recorded bearing. For example, if you first saw the target bearing 55, then drag the pointer until the black arrow points to the 55. Then, you simply turn the inner circle so that the AOB you found in step 2 lines up with the other black ship icon on the transparent pointer. The white silhouette points towards 0 AOB, the green numbers are starboard and the red numbers are port. Once you've done that, the target's course can be read on the inner set of numbers on the white scale. For example, if my boat is headed 39 degrees, and I see the target at bearing 141, with an AOB of 100 starboard, the target's course is around 258. See example 10 in the pdf if your confused- it's difficult to explain without pictures.

Getting the correct course is the hard part. Once you have that, you can use the attack disk to calculate all sorts of stuff, like speed, your heading for a perpendicular attack, what speed you should go to have the target pass X distance in front of you, etc. In the pdf, I've found that the most useful examples are numbers 1, 2, 9, 10, and 11. Example 10 is basically exactly what I wrote up in step 3, but described better. I strongly recommend you take the time to learn the attack disk- it will make things so much easier and faster, and you won't have to worry about unrealistically drawing right angles and tangent circles and whatnot on the nav map.

Of course, there are other methods. If you don't have the time to do the full stop three-bearind AOB check, you could simply try to turn on the same course and speed as the target until you're keeping him at a constant bearing (i.e. moving parallel to him at the same speed) for an estimate, and then refine your data as you come in. Most importantly, attack at a right angle to the target's course from as close as you can If you attack from 90 degrees with a torpedo gyro angle of zero, your range estimate can be off by a bit without affecting your accuracy because you end up with a right triangle, and the lead angle for the torpedo doesn't change with range, and the closer you are, the less time for your errors to affect your accuracy.

That's all I have the energy to write up right now. If you have any more questions just ask.

[FIREWALL]

Hi KaptCosper Welcome Aboard :salute:

There are tons of threads on SH3 Forum on this topic that should answer alot of your questions. Enjoy the reading. :up:

[Jimbuna]

Download this manual, I believe there is an illustrated article in there:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/14272989/Manual_V3_0_Final_without_background_pdf

[Woolfman]

Here's one way to do it. Keep in mind there might be other ways that would be better, depending on the situation:

1. Get a good GUI mod. I use MaGui Final here (http://174.123.69.202/%7Esubsimc/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166320).
This has an AOB-finder wheel and an attack disk. Real Uboats did not have GPS installed and thus could not do most of the 20-step plotting techniques you see around. Instead, plotting targets is all about the relative position of your boat and the target. The tools in one of these will make this possible.

That's all I have the energy to write up right now. If you have any more questions just ask.


:woot:Now, just wait a minute...this is outstanding stuff! Very interesting Document indeed!

1. Is the MaGui Mod GWX 3.0 friendly?
2. JSMGE install...plug & play?

Somehow I manage to get excellent results with the stock geometric tools on the Nav. map display; at 100% realism (with map updates enabled though).

I'm just wondering if its worth all the trouble to get all of these tool updates?

Mind you, it looks great and, everything's at the right place, don't have to change screens all the time! Is that it? And, by the way, what does MaGui stand for?

What do you guys think?

:hmmm:Another thing...

I bought SH3 when it came out and ended up shelving it for years only to re-discover it a few weeks ago. Initially I played with the Weapons Officer turned on because I was too lazy:zzz: to calculate everything myself. Besides, I tried to do it manually for a while but, got tired of working for hours to setup kill shots and hitting everything but the targets.:damn:

Yet, after reading all kinds of good stuff on this site: :up:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/smartdark/navbits_finallink_ltr.gif (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=88961) The Hunt: An illustrated example of how to sink a ship

U-Tube Videos on Manual TDC....etc

...I find that the game is much more immersing with manual TDC....very realistic in fact.

Yet, I dont feel like I'm calculating all that much though. I press the "Input button" on the WO screen, point the periscope at the target, press the "input button" again to get information updates "ON". and wait for the target...what's the big deal about that? Not that complicate when I think about it. The target bearing is always correct: sometimes the AOB needs minor adjustments (Port or Starboard) which is a little odd. So what's the point of having the WO enabled? Even if we mess up the target identification the information is properly corrected on the captain's log page for correct tonnage and ship ID!:know:

:dead:I never use the Notepad on either TDC or periscope, i find it too unreliable for accuracy. Besides, its practically useless to try to get the right distance and speed of targets with notepad. Measure speed with the 3 mins. 15 sec. rule and AOB on the Nav. map method (after 3 readings) and using the compass is easier, faster and more precise in my opinion.

Anyhow, that's why i'm wondering if the Mod. is really worth it. Does it make the game too easy is, i guess, the real question here.:06:

Woolfman

[andqui]

I'm using it with GWX, yes. You have to be careful of compatibility with other mods- it comes with patches for CT's open conning tower hatch and FM_New_Interiors. I am using the patched .exe file, and so have added in the menu_en lines from that mod into this, but I think that's the only modification I had to do to get it to work with my stuff. The included compatibility patches are very helpful. There are other Gui's out there- such as ACM, OLC, and *I believe* all contain the right tools. I'm only using MaGui because when I first started setting up my install it looked like it was easier to make things compatible with it- I never tried the other ones so it's just my preference.

It is in JSGME format, and you can make any mod in JSGME format.

[washishu]

Seems to me***8212;don't want to insult anyone's intelligence here; I'm just expressing an opinion and I'm willing to acknowledge that I might be missing something***8212;that said, seems to me that there's a lot of over-complication over this whole business.

Although I have played SHI & II and SubCommand, I don't consider myself an expert by any stretch. So 100% realism? Every single 'helper' switched off? Too, too much in my view; but that's my view. KaptCosper says he is new to subsims. I don't find the whole approach/attack thing to be too much of an issue. Sure you want some uncertainty or it just isn't fun, but you want some fun too, if you get my drift.

I suggest, KaptCosper that you try the following, which works well for me***8212;
***8226; A contact appears on the map. You do a quick measuring job with the ruler to get the distance. If it looks like you may be able to catch it, just get the boat going in roughly the right direction***8212;ahead of it, of course, not at it. Once that's done you can do some more careful calculations and fine-tune as needed. I drag a ruler from the first contact point in the general direction of it's travel***8212;east, south-west, whatever***8212;and use that as a rough guide. I can then calculate approximately how long the target will take to get to any point along the ruler and whether or not I can get there before it.

***8226; So, after some time, you're ahead of the target but no visual as yet. Submerge and see if there's a hydrophone contact yet. I then zig-zag back along the projected course 'till I get something. Surface or periscope to get a visual. Plot/measure (3' 15" etc) to get speed, identify target if possible. Use the same ruler technique to get a more accurate plot on target course.

***8226; Decide on an approach angle***8212;I guess you could use any but 45 or 90 tend to work best for me. If you want to do the plotting on the map you can use the tools to plot/draw your approach (well ahead of the target's position) and then use waypoints to follow that course, or you can just do the sums and work out what heading you need to be on for a 45 or a 90 approach. Set AoB to 45 or 90, with scope/TBT at 0 (or 180 for stern shot).

***8226; Keep checking target's position and adjusting if needed. Set up the necessary on the torpedoes***8212;depth etc. Aim 'scope or UZO on bearing that gives 000 gyro angle and wait for the target to pass.

If target is till some way off get hydrophone operator to call out the bearing so's you don't have to sit with the scope up for ages.

It's not foolproof but it gives you some gameplay fun and it's not over-complicated either and it actually takes much longer to describe than it takes to do.