California Passes Bill to teach Gay History in Public Schools

[Feuer Frei!]

Gays, lesbians, bisexuals and transgender people would be added to the lengthy list of social and ethnic groups that public schools must include in social studies lessons under a landmark bill passed Thursday by the California Senate.
If the bill is adopted by the state Assembly and signed by Gov. Jerry Brown, California would become the first state to require the teaching of gay history.
Supporters say the move is needed to counter anti-gay stereotypes and beliefs that make children in those groups vulnerable to bullying and suicide.
Opponents counter that such instruction would further burden an already crowded curriculum and expose students to a subject that some parents find objectionable.
The legislation, sponsored by Democratic Sen. Mark Leno of San Francisco, passed on a 23-14 party line vote. It also would add disabled people to the curriculum.
The bill gives school districts flexibility in deciding what to include in the lessons and at what grades students would receive them.
But starting in the 2013-14 school year, it would prohibit districts and the California Board of Education from using textbooks or other instructional materials that reflect adversely on gay, bisexual and transgender Americans.


Appealing to colleagues for support, Leno said gay children still struggle routinely with verbal and physical abuse at school, even though society is more accepting than when he was a gay youth in the 1960s.
"We are second-class citizens and children are listening," he said. "When they see their teachers don't step up to the plate when their classmate is being harassed literally to death, they are listening and they get the message that there is something wrong with those people."
Republican Sen. Doug La Malfa of Butte opposed the bill.
"I'm deeply troubled kids would have to contemplate at a very, very early age, when many of us are teaching abstinence ... what is sexuality," he said.
California law already requires schools to cover the contributions to the state and nation of women, African Americans, Mexican Americans, entrepreneurs, Asian Americans, European Americans, American Indians and labor.


SOURCE (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2011/04/14/politics/main20054063.shtml)

[Snestorm]

Mandatory State Education, has in far too many cases, become Mandatory Social Indoctrination.
Maybe it's time The People took back Their Right to educate their own children.

[Penguin]

California law already requires schools to cover the contributions to the state and nation of women, African Americans, Mexican Americans, entrepreneurs, Asian Americans, European Americans, American Indians and labor.


Did you notice that they leave out the Australian Americans? Freaking fascists!

[Feuer Frei!]

Did you notice that they leave out the Australian Americans? Freaking fascists!
Yes, i noticed, maybe deliberate, since we are the ass-end of the world.
And that is a quote from one of our esteemed ex Prime Ministers. :down:

[Penguin]

Or maybe Australian Americans never contributed anything productive to american society :D

[Morts]

Mandatory State Education, has in far too many cases, become Mandatory Social Indoctrination.
Maybe it's time The People took back Their Right to educate their own children.
I would hate to see a kid be educated (brainwashed) by you and your white nationalist propaganda

[Betonov]

Gay history, what gay history. You mean the ancient Greek and their more hedonistic lifestyles ?? Thats covered in ancient history. Their oppresion from the christians. That's also covered.
Gay are not a nation, nor a group, neither a minority. They're a lifestyle. They have no history.

[Feuer Frei!]

Gay history, what gay history. You mean the ancient Greek and their more hedonistic lifestyles ?? Thats covered in ancient history. Their oppresion from the christians. That's also covered.
Gay are not a nation, nor a group, neither a minority. They're a lifestyle. They have no history.
Don't take the word 'history' literally.
I think we are talking about awareness moreso, how to cope with, or live with alternative lifestyles in our lives. How to learn about acceptance.
Learn not to judge. Or to criticise.

[AVGWarhawk]

Mandatory State Education, has in far too many cases, become Mandatory Social Indoctrination.
Maybe it's time The People took back Their Right to educate their own children.


Parents can. Home school or private school.


Gay history, what gay history. You mean the ancient Greek and their more hedonistic lifestyles ?? Thats covered in ancient history. Their oppresion from the christians. That's also covered.
Gay are not a nation, nor a group, neither a minority. They're a lifestyle. They have no history.


Agreed.

[AVGWarhawk]

Don't take the word 'history' literally.
I think we are talking about awareness moreso, how to cope with, or live with alternative lifestyles in our lives. How to learn about acceptance.
Learn not to judge. Or to criticise.

Yes, homophobic as it were. And California giving students their opinion and told what to accept. Soon asked to agree with it all? I suspect that is next on the agenda. As far as awarness....my high school student is made aware everyday. She goes to classes with lesbians and gays. They do not hide it.

How should the word "history' be taken instead of literally?

[mookiemookie]

I don't agree with this because, as they say, the curriculum is crowded enough as it is. And for the record, being gay isn't a "lifestyle" anymore than being tall is a lifestyle or being left handed is a lifestyle. And as such, I don't see the need to single them out anymore than we need to single out the achievements of Americans of Australian descent or Americans over 6'3" tall.

Mandatory Social Indoctrination. I know. Kids might be indoctrinated to learn tolerance, acceptance and consideration for their fellow man. Shocking.

[Skybird]

So special, so special, so special. What happened to good old fashioned gay discrimination here in the West?

[Feuer Frei!]

Yes, homophobic as it were. I don't understand? And California giving students their opinion and told what to accept.
Well, that's a matter for the Education Board to decide on what 'material' will be appropriate and what won't be. Soon asked to agree with it all? I suspect that is next on the agenda. It seems to me you are anti with this bill? Or just my last post? As far as awarness....my high school student is made aware everyday. She goes to classes with lesbians and gays. They do not hide it.It is not a question of hiding it, or whether they should spend time with gays or lesbians during recess or lunch breaks, or sit beside them in class.
The idea behind this is that children with a less broadened sense of acceptance and understanding and tolerance if you will, unlike your high school student, are taught this. Hopefully.
This all depends on the Education Board, the content of the material proposed as teaching aids, the ways with which this is taught, on the teachers themselves, and of course how it is received by the students themselves.
There are a lot of if's and how's.

How should the word "history' be taken instead of literally?If you want to take the word history literal, in the context of this thread, then i can only allude to them meaning civil rights, common prejudices, roles in society over the centuries, upbring, behaviour, all these things can be classed as history.
And in the finer sense, Gay History.

And as such, I don't see the need to single them out
I'm thinking singling out gays is not their intention here.
My hope is that by educating kids, in the right manner, with the right tools and the right delivery, will see us all living in a more understanding and tolerable society.
I don't believe this the final solution if you will, but i've always been a big believer in educating the masses, or education kills ignorance.
Why not trial it? See how it goes?
I'm sure they will, to what extent remains to be seen, but can it hurt?
Heck, it may not even get signed off on.

[Feuer Frei!]

So special, so special, so special. What happened to good old fashioned gay discrimination here in the West?
You mean you are immune to it over there? :O:
Surely this is a global occurrance.

[mookiemookie]

I'm thinking singling out gays is not their intention here.
My hope is that by educating kids, in the right manner, with the right tools and the right delivery, will see us all living in a more understanding and tolerable society.
I don't believe this the final solution if you will, but i've always been a big believer in educating the masses, or education kills ignorance.
Why not trial it? See how it goes?
I'm sure they will, to what extent remains to be seen, but can it hurt?
Heck, it may not even get signed off on.

Perhaps "singling out" was a poor choice of words. I mean it in the sense of "giving special attention to in a positive way." I think the more we make a big deal out of the fact that certain people in history were gay, the more we make it seem odd or noteworthy.

[Feuer Frei!]

Perhaps "singling out" was a poor choice of words. I mean it in the sense of "giving special attention to in a positive way." I think the more we make a big deal out of the fact that certain people in history were gay, the more we make it seem odd or noteworthy.
That makes more sense, i concur.

[Tchocky]

Coming from a country where homosexuality wasn't legal until 1993, I'd say there's plenty of history to be taught. Especially with the high suicide rates among LGBT teens, it's nice to see efforts being made to help them not feel so alone. Obviously this is just a tiny element in how society views/is viewed by LGBT's, but it's just about all that should be happening in schools, I think.

And would those posters above characterise their sexuality as a "lifestyle"? A lifestyle is made of things like a group of friends, a set of hobbies, an occupation. Your sexuality isn't something you pick.

[August]

Mandatory State Education, has in far too many cases, become Mandatory Social Indoctrination.
Maybe it's time The People took back Their Right to educate their own children.

This ^

If we spent less time social engineering and more time learning math, reading and geography we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

[AVGWarhawk]

I don't understand?


Homophobic? The descriptive term of folks who do not care for the lifestyle, choice or born this way(however one likes to look at it)? It is naturally assumed that if one does not care for the lifestyle, choice or born this way point of view are afford the label of homophobic. If gays do not care for the hetersexual lifestyle, choice or born this way view what label do we have for these people? Why is there not a class offered for gays and lesbians who are heterophobic that makes them aware and more sensative to heterosexuals? Perhaps because hetersexuals do not face ridicule and discrimination?


Well, that's a matter for the Education Board to decide on what 'material' will be appropriate and what won't be.


It is really up to the people who elected the Board of Education for the county. The parents do have a voice. We call it PTA.


It seems to me you are anti with this bill? Or just my last post?


Your post is just fine. I'm anti on the bill. It is another issue forced down the parents throats. We should change the name of California to Nanny State.


It is not a question of hiding it, or whether they should spend time with gays or lesbians during recess or lunch breaks, or sit beside them in class.
The idea behind this is that children with a less broadened sense of acceptance and understanding and tolerance if you will, unlike your high school student, are taught this. Hopefully.
This all depends on the Education Board, the content of the material proposed as teaching aids, the ways with which this is taught, on the teachers themselves, and of course how it is received by the students themselves.
There are a lot of if's and how's.



Years ago it was a question of hiding it. Kids are more accepting today. I have two teenagers. I get the drift. Kids do not walk up to others and say, "Hi, I'm Sam. I'm gay." More often friendship is made and things about your new friend come out. Others in the school say things. Generally at that point the opinion about the person is already determined. The new found information of sexual orientation has change the opinion very little, if at all.

My nephew is gay. My daughters realize this. Perhaps I'm more skewed than others because my daughters accept it as well as I. We are tolerant and support our cousin/nephew. (BTW Mookie...I still think some in the gay community made a choice of this as a "lifestyle" and not born this way.) This is my opinion from what I have experience concerning my nephew and some of his partners.

As far as material to teach, damn good question. That remains to be seen.

If you want to take the word history literal, in the context of this thread, then i can only allude to them meaning civil rights, common prejudices, roles in society over the centuries, upbring, behaviour, all these things can be classed as history.
And in the finer sense, Gay History.



That makes sense. However, didn't the black community get up in arms when gays likened their plight to the civil rights movement?


My hope is that by educating kids, in the right manner, with the right tools and the right delivery, will see us all living in a more understanding and tolerable society.



This might be easier then we think. Just my experience with my own two teens. It is the staunch that refuse to acknowledge with all the evidence provided that yes, gays/lesbians are born this way. (but again, Mookie, I think some try the it out of natural curiosity or just bored. Let's look at Lindsey Lohan..no wait..let's not)

[Betonov]

This ^

If we spent less time social engineering and more time learning math, reading and geography we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

And if we spent NO time with yocial engineering and spent the gained time teaching our children some practical crafts like household mechanics and fire safety and advanced first aid, we'd have the quarter problems we do.

As I recall there were some books written to outline the difference between good and evil and show some morality to the children, which were quite effective to mine and prevoius generations. I believe they were called fairy tales and fables

[MH]

Are gays different race now-not humans,different species.
What about giving gays equal rights and forget they exist.
Isn't the gay struggle issue about not giving them second thought.
Are there some gays that try to call the attention on the issue on purpose?
You will have democrats republicans and gay party?.:damn:

[Tchocky]

Taxes on cigarettes are "social engineering". Speed limits are "social engineering".

Teaching kids about the kinds of people they're likely to meet in the world, and not to be ashamed of who they are is also "social engineering".

Totally meaningless phrase.

[Task Force]

I didn't even know that there was that much gay history.

[TLAM Strike]

If we spent less time social engineering and more time learning math, reading and geography we wouldn't have half the problems we do.

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7951/chinesestudent411462761.jpg
For sure little Lee Lee and Ping Ping know that if they do well in their reading math and geography they may get excepted from their 2 year conscription period in a people's labor battalion or motor rifle division...

[AVGWarhawk]

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7951/chinesestudent411462761.jpg
For sure little Lee Lee and Ping Ping know that if they do well in their reading math and geography they may get excepted from their 2 year conscription period in a people's labor battalion or motor rifle division...


I have seen this post somewhere before...:hmmm:

[mookiemookie]

I didn't even know that there was that much gay history.

A fan of the Battle of the Atlantic should already know some gay history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

[Task Force]

http://img841.imageshack.us/img841/7951/chinesestudent411462761.jpg
For sure little Lee Lee and Ping Ping know that if they do well in their reading math and geography they may get excepted from their 2 year conscription period in a people's labor battalion or motor rifle division...

Ping Ping... that's a new asian name for me.

[Tribesman]

If people didn't have such a problem with being presented with gay history then the film troy wouldn't have depicted Patroculus as Achilies cousin.:03:


This ^

The fact that your "This^" is in support of a statement going on about evil state indoctrination but is written by a white supremacist probably suggests you shouldn't put a "This^" without a hell of a lot more thought about what exactly you just agreed with.:yep:
After all you wouldn't want to be associated with his idelogy which historicly introduced the pink triangle to mark out poofs for special treatment.
Hey maybe thats why he doesn't want gay history taught, it puts the nazis in a bad light:rotfl2:

Coming from a country where homosexuality wasn't legal until 1993, I'd say there's plenty of history to be taught.
I think the whole issue that justifies teaching about it is the simple fact that it was a section of society which was severly persecuted for centuries.

[Armistead]

Gay history, what gay history. You mean the ancient Greek and their more hedonistic lifestyles ?? Thats covered in ancient history. Their oppresion from the christians. That's also covered.
Gay are not a nation, nor a group, neither a minority. They're a lifestyle. They have no history.


I agree. I have no problems with Gays or Gay marriage, but this is indoctrination. I have no problem if it's only to teach sexuality and include safe sex practices for any type of sexual behavior in sex ed, but this is gay history with a goal to indoctrinate people to accept their views. I doubt they'll teach a counter view. This is nothing more than an agenda.

[nikimcbee]

So, if you wonder why none of our engineers at (my) work are not from the US, this probably has something to do with it.:nope:

[nikimcbee]

Ping Ping... that's a new asian name for me.

Motion to change TF's user name to "Ping-ping.":up:

[Ducimus]

Mandatory State Education, has in far too many cases, become Mandatory Social Indoctrination.


California doesn't have a nickname of, "The Peoples Republic of California" for no reason at all.

[Sailor Steve]

I seem to be the only one who noticed that among the included groups they list "entrepreneurs". The history of entrepreneurs? Now I'm offended!
:rotfl2:

What? The actual subject? Well, I'm of two minds. One of them agrees with the concept that schools need to concentrate on the basics. The other thinks that taking one day out of a world history class (or US history class) to teach the history of one group or another won't hurt. Of course the two together agree that I don't really know. But California will be California, so what can you do but wait and see?

[TLAM Strike]

Motion to change TF's user name to "Ping-ping.":up:

Motion seconded! :salute:

Ping Ping... that's a new asian name for me.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Pingping

I seem to be the only one who noticed that among the included groups they list "entrepreneurs". The history of entrepreneurs? Now I'm offended!
:rotfl2:
indeed nothing of capitalism (except its evils) should be teached to students in the P.R.Cali.

[nikimcbee]

Motion seconded! :salute:



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/He_Pingping

The subsim member, formerly known as "Task Force" will now be known as "Ping-ping".
Motion to change Ping-Ping's avatar to Asian hooker from "Full Metal Jacket."

Motion to change PP's signater to "I luv you long time."

[August]

And if we spent NO time with yocial engineering and spent the gained time teaching our children some practical crafts like household mechanics and fire safety and advanced first aid, we'd have the quarter problems we do.

As I recall there were some books written to outline the difference between good and evil and show some morality to the children, which were quite effective to mine and prevoius generations. I believe they were called fairy tales and fables

Agree 100%

[August]

A fan of the Battle of the Atlantic should already know some gay history: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing

So we should just ignore that he was a mathematician, logician, crypto-analyst and computer scientist because all that is important these days is that he is a homosexual? :roll:

[vienna]

Why not trial it? See how it goes?
I'm sure they will, to what extent remains to be seen, but can it hurt?


I live in California, more specifically, Los Angeles. I spent a couple of my high school years attending an L.A. high school in the late '60s when the matter of various "studies" courses first began. It started out with courses based on racial groupings and was elective in high schools. As the years progressed, the concept of "studies" courses spread over a broader spectrum to encompass social, ethnic, or whatever niche groups could raise enough political rukus to cow the local school district or the state authorities to concede to the creation of "studies" courses specific to their cause. The courses, which were once elective are now, in some cases, mandatory and are begun in grades as early as the elementary level. This has required the expenditure of scarce educational funds, the redeployment of staff from core educational objectives, and the creation of a confusing, for students and teachers alike, sub-beauracracy within the school districts to administer these programs. A look at the history of Los Angeles Unified School District (LAUSD) reveals that these courses, along with other social engineering courses, have lowered the scholastic levels and effectiveness of education on the whole in Los Angeles.

The courses and social engineering efforts all started out as "trials" and ended up doing a lot of damage before the general public was made aware of the effects. I do not have any general objection to various niche group studies courses, but do not believe they should be mandatory or that they should siphon off from the main objective of pre-college education which is to give students the skills and knowledge to prosper in their future daily lives and endeavours. Elementary and junior high (middle) schools should deal with the basics and not be burdened with social engineering; at the high school level, the focus should be on college or career preparation and the various "studies" courses should be offered as electives to be taken only after sucessful completion of the core courses.

A prime example of the fallacy of the "it couldn't hurt, let's try it out" argument can be seen in the LAUSD's adoption, several years ago, of bi-lingual education in the schools at all levels. It was required that non-English speaking students be taught in their native language (predominently Spanish) alongside their English speaking counterparts. The result was scenes such as a teacher giving instruction, in English, to the class then waiting while an interpreter repeated the instruction in the the non-English student's language. You can only imagine what this can be like over the course of a school period. Over the period of this trial (several years), standardized test grades went progressively and alarmingly lower. The LAUSD Board, controlled by a rather heavily left-leaning majority, continued to support and defend the bi-lingual program even in the face of failures and insisted that the "trail" needed more time to succeed. Eventually it was obvious to all people, outside of the Board, that the problems were approaching critical levels and something had to be done. Parents, even those of non-English speaking students, raised up against the Board. The more radically left members of the Board, fearing for their political futures (and fat paychecks) fled the Board and new, more moderate, members were elected. The bi-lingual program was scrapped, the pevious educational techniques were re-adopted. Student progress and standarized test scores rose again. There has even been a higher rate of success among non-English speaking students.

But what of the students who were "educated" during the "trial" period? What about the effect of their lives and futures? Is it worth it to "try it out" and cripple their progress in life? If a parent wishes to enroll their student in a "progressive" or "experimental" school curicculum, they usually enroll them in private schools, at their expense. But public primary and secondary schools, paid for by public funds, should be less in the business of "trying it out" and more of teaching basic, solid skills. Let the private schools, privately funded, test out the new theories and techniques; if any of them develop into viable, productive methods in line with core public educational goals, then let's welcome those advances into our public schools.

As a BTW:
So, if you wonder why none of our engineers at (my) work are not from the US, this probably has something to do with it.:nope:
Back in the early 80's, I worked on a project at the University of Southern California regarding a new, (for then) computerized student class registration program. Part of my involvement had me assisting students as they enrolled for their new semester's classes. Almost all of the students who were foreign-born enrolled in science, pre-med, engineering, and upper-level math courses with very little in the way of "soft" classes. The students who were American-born enrolled in general education, liberal arts, or MBA-prep business courses or pre-law courses looking for the big paydays after graduation (this was the beginning of the Reagan/Yuppie years). The foreign students were mainly from Asia (Japan, China, Korea, etc.) or the Middle-East (Iraq, Saudi, Israel, etc.) with a few from Europe, India, Pakistan, etc. Those American MBA and pre-law students probably went on to engineer the fiscal fiascoes we have suffered in recent years. The foreign students either returned to their home countries to contribute to the rise of their nations wealth and power (in relation to ours) or stayed here and have become a growing part of the base of our medical, scientific, engineering and technical endeavors, which, given the lack of interest or lack of essential skills of our home-grown students, is rapidly becoming either outsourced (probably to those former USC students in their home countries) or fading out at an alarming rate. The true tragedy of American decline is not due to outside, foreign influences, but to our own indifference and neglect. Those foreign companies that got our jobs and industries didn't steal them; we gave them away by ignoring the basics that made the U.S. great and, instead, ignored our schools, taught our children to take the "easy path", derided and denigrated the basic work ethic, favored the "quick buck" over long-term fiscal responsibilty, and abdicated our technilogical supremacy in favor of "let them do it". The materials and resources, human and otherwise, to make the U.S. strong and productive are already here, just like lumber and tools at a building site. We just need to stop merely foisting the whole blame on outside elements, roll up or sleeves, make firm bluprints and start to work.

[mookiemookie]

So we should just ignore that he was a mathematician, logician, crypto-analyst and computer scientist because all that is important these days is that he is a homosexual? :roll:

If you'd read any of my other posts in this thread instead of jumping on me with a snarky comment, you'd see that's what I'm arguing against.

[nikimcbee]

taught our children to take the "easy path", derided and denigrated the basic work ethic

There's the problem right there.:dead:

[August]

If you'd read any of my other posts in this thread instead of jumping on me with a snarky comment, you'd see that's what I'm arguing against.

What so you're the only one allowed to make "snarky" comments?

I know. Kids might be indoctrinated to learn tolerance, acceptance and consideration for their fellow man. Shocking.

[mookiemookie]

You're setting up the strawman, but I'll indulge you: I read the preceding posts and was sure of the person's position when I made mine.

[nikimcbee]

Don't make me go back there! I'm tryin to drive, and I can't drive with yousa guys fightin'!
http://www.buzzpirates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/billy-madison-bus.jpg

[mookiemookie]

Don't make me go back there! I'm tryin to drive, and I can't drive with yousa guys fightin'!
http://www.buzzpirates.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/billy-madison-bus.jpg

"I'll turn this forum around and drive straight home!"

[nikimcbee]

"I'll turn this forum around and drive straight home!"

BTW, @mookie, did you get married yet? Just wait til you have 2 kids.:dead:

[mookiemookie]

BTW, @mookie, did you get married yet? Just wait til you have 2 kids.:dead:

Waiting on her to finish dental hygiene school, then it's off to Vegas to get married! :yeah:

[nikimcbee]

Mookie, here's a beer (in a plastic cup).
August, here's a beer (also in a plasitic cup).

McBee wins Nobel peace prize.:woot:

[Tribesman]

So we should just ignore that he was a mathematician, logician, crypto-analyst and computer scientist because all that is important these days is that he is a homosexual?
What a strawman august builds again.:yawn:

Agree 100%
So after agrreing with a fascist on the perils of "social indoctrination" he agrees 100% with someone who wants to end social engineering because he prefers errrrr....social engineering(Betanov didn't realise that those things he wants back instead of social engineering are social engineering)