What budget graphic card would you recommend?

[Velero]

What budget graphic card/chip do you recommend to be able play this game to it's full potential. Especially with Open Horizons II now available for download. I have the newest Intel quad i7 processor with 6 GB of ram, so I don't think I need to upgrade that. Ideally I don't want to spend more than 100 pounds - Is it possible?

Thanking you all in advance.

Edit - just found online a GTX 460 SE - 1 GB GDDR5 for less than 100 pounds, hopefully this will meet SH5 high requirements.

[Gerald]

ATI or Nvidia :hmmm:

[Velero]

Nvidia I guess, as that's what I'm used to. Better the devil you know :)

Reason I ask, is because I always seem to be underpowered when it comes to graphics cards, always struggling to get the FPS above 30 on minimum settings. In SH4 it was the same thing, never never seem to get it right :damn:. Don't believe in spending 300 pounds for the latest gadget but then budget cards tend to be a waste of time as they are 2 slow to start with. Same old same old, out the rapper and it's out of date.

Current graphics card GTS 9500 1 Gb I believe, ( I'm on my laptop so can't confirm)

[Gerald]

Nvidia,have good card's...and the card that you describe will not have problems with SH5.

[Velero]

Thanks Vendor for your reply. I'll order the GeForce GTX 460.:salute:

Right were are those dolphins and mines :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Thanks Vendor for your reply. I'll order the GeForce GTX 460.:salute:

Right were are those dolphins and mines :hmmm: You are welcome,:up:

[Feuer Frei!]

@Velero:
Will you be running just the one card, or in SLI? Ie 2 cards, side by side?
If i may make a suggestion, the 570 is better against the 460, in single card setup.
Future-proof, the 460 is a dead end upgrade, ie you can only run 2 460's side by side.
No future to upgrade, w/o replacing both cards. With a 570 you have the option to add a second, third or fourth down the track.
That's if you think sli ofc.
Single comparisons only, go for the 570.
I don't know your budget though.
Anyways, just a thought, the 460 isn't a bad card at all, just if you are thinking futurewise.
Here's something to ponder over:

http://www.hwcompare.com/9005/geforce-gtx-460-vs-geforce-gtx-570/

[BigBANGtheory]

The Ati 6950 2GB (reference design) is excellent value as it can in most cases be unlocked to a 6970, but it retails around £200.

I use an Ati 4890 myself having owned many Nvidia cards in the past so I'm not bias either way.

What I would say though is that in recent years Ati seems to deliver better raw GPU power per $ and that the gap in game GPU demmands over time is decreasing compared to previous years on account of console hardware holding back development. So unless you intend on using a 3 screen setup you should get a lot of milage out of a GPU.

Where you may get unstuck with an Nvidia 460 is if you intend to play ArmA3 next year, but at £100 your not taking a big risk by any means.

[Velero]

Thank you Feuer Frei! and BigBang Theory for your advice and recommendations. I went to the hardware compare website, very informative, clear concise definitions and descriptions of the different benchmarks. Very good comparisons between the two cards.

All this now lives me with a conundrum. Here are my options;

GTX 460 on offer for £80, the GTX 570 for £230, ATI 6870 - 1 GB GDDR on offer for £139.00, and finally the the ATI 6950 2GB for £200.

As with many things there's the "you pays your money you pay's your choice' trade off between budget/performance. Highly tempted to go for the 6950 but my head say's get the 460 (not planning to play Arma2).

Thank you all again for your advice, makes for a more informed decision.:up:

[Feuer Frei!]

BTW Velero, what specs are you running?
RAM, PSU and CPU in particular?
You seem to be computer-literate so you will know already if your Mobo is compatible with the 460 :salute:

[Velero]

"BTW Velero, what specs are you running? RAM, PSU and CPU in particular? You seem to be computer-literate so you will know already if your Mobo is compatible with the 460" - Feuer Frei!

Hi Frei. Well I'm not literate now, all the opposite. :) I've left gaming for a bit due to family commitments (baby) so I missed the whole crossfire, quad processor advances. (Wow, There can be 2 graphic cards in one PC, 4 chips in one processor, 600 watt power requirement, wtf. ::timeout:)

Here are my specs:

Intel i7 Cpu 920@2.67 ghz (8 CPU'S) - 2.7Ghz
6 GB DDR3 ram
Windows 7 64 bit
Gigabite x58a-ud3r motherboard (has crosswire support, 3 way sli - whatever this means!!)
Geforce 9500 GT 1gb

This configuration should be OK shouldn't it?

[Gerald]

"600-watt power requirement", is the minimum I would recommend 750 watts is a minimum if you are going to run dual cards.

[Feuer Frei!]

Velero, your specs are fine, since you are upgrading your GPU.
Run your machine through this:

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/

A 1 click web tool to scan your system for hardware and setup configurations, select Silent Hunter 5 from the dropdown and hit canyourunit, let it do its thing and it'll give you a result.
And what power supply are you running?
What Vendor said is a good measuring tool.

[SeaWolf U-57]

For a 460 minimum power supply needed 700 watts
and a x2 PCE power leads as I recall :hmmm:

[Feuer Frei!]

450W PSU minimum recommended by Nvidia, 600W PSU is adequate.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Velero, your specs are fine, since you are upgrading your GPU.
Run your machine through this:

http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/



IIRC - you have to visit with IE and not Firefox.

Crosswire :rotfl2:

[Feuer Frei!]

IIRC - you have to visit with IE and not Firefox.

Crosswire :rotfl2:
Pardon :hmmm:

EDIT: Firefox is fine, it's what i use.

[Gerald]

Herr-Berbunch say, in the side so you need to use IE, instead of Fox, as Intel has "requirements"

[Feuer Frei!]

Herr-Berbunch say, in the side so you need to use IE, instead of Fox, as Intel has "requirements"
I don't see it, sorry:




Get your complete report in seconds including upgrade suggestions for your computer.
Only your system's hardware and system software are evaluated.
No personally identifiable information is collected.
Works on Windows XP, 2000, 2003, Vista and 7.
Works with Internet Explorer, Firefox and Chrome browsers.
You will need to give your permission to download a secure ActiveX/Java browser component.
You can easily uninstall the ActiveX/Java browser component when the analysis is complete.

[Velero]

"600-watt power requirement", is the minimum I would recommend 750 watts is a minimum if you are going to run dual cards." - VendorI wrote 600 watt on top of my head just as an illustration of how far comps have advanced since the last time I bought a computer. Power was not that much of an issue back then. Good point though, on top of my head I can´t remember the power supply I have, when I get back home i will try to find receipt, if not I´ll open her up (Is the watt information displayed on the actual unit?).

Velero, your specs are fine, since you are upgrading your GPU.
Run your machine through this: http://www.systemrequirementslab.com/cyri/

A 1 click web tool to scan your system for hardware and setup configurations, select Silent Hunter 5 from the dropdown and hit canyourunit, let it do its thing and it'll give you a result.
And what power supply are you running?
What Vendor said is a good measuring tool. - Feuer Frei!Thanks for the link F Frei, tried both on IE and Firefox, (both worked) website says that my system meets all the recommended requirements. Don´t get me wrong I can play this game no problem. It´s just my system slows down to a crawl when in range of a large task force or in heavy traffic. I run the game with all apps closed, with no shadows, no particles and no AA, as for mods I have MO installed but not dynamic environment, the need for a new graphic card derives from the desire to play Open Horizons II and Dynamic Environment and variants at full pelt. here´s hoping...

For a 460 minimum power supply needed 700 watts and a x2 PCE power leads as I recall - SeaWolf U-57 I´ll bear that in mind, thank you, (Don´t the x2 pce power leads come with the card?) I´ll double check.

[SeaWolf U-57]

No as far as I remember only one x2 4 pin power pickups into one PCE
they think you should have one 4/6 pin PCE power cord from
your power supply.
safest way is to buy a power supply that has x2 4/6 pin PCE power cords :hmmm:
Best to check it out

[Feuer Frei!]

if not I´ll open her up (Is the watt information displayed on the actual unit?).
Correct.
Thanks for the link F Frei, tried both on IE and Firefox, (both worked) here´s hoping..Np, keep us posted.

I´ll bear that in mind, thank you, (Don´t the x2 pce power leads come with the card?) I´ll double check.The contents of the box are generally considered to be this:
GeForce GTX 460 SE Video Card, 2 x PCIe 6-Pin Power Connectors, DVI to VGA Adapter, mini-HDMI Cable, Installation Manual, Drivers Disc.
As i stated before the minimum PSU you need is 450W.
You will be more than adequately covered with 600W.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I don't see it, sorry:

[/LIST]


Sorry, I last used it about six months ago, and it would only allow IE. Obviously they've changed that requirement for the better. :yep:

[SeaWolf U-57]

Correct.
Np, keep us posted.

2 x PCIe 6-Pin Power Connectors
As i stated before the minimum PSU you need is 450W.
You will be more than adequately covered with 600W.

x2 PCIe 6 pin power conectors that are supplied by 4 x4pin power conectors so you will need x4 4pin conectors free from your power
supply unit running flat out when running a game as well as the extra
power it pulls from the board itself. so that dont leave many for the extra cooling fans you will need
and all this running on a 600w psu .... :hmmm:

[Feuer Frei!]

x2 PCIe 6 pin power conectors that are supplied by 4 x4pin power conectors so you will need x4 4pin conectors free from your power
supply unit running flat out when running a game as well as the extra
power it pulls from the board itself. so that dont leave many for the extra cooling fans you will need
and all this running on a 600w psu .... :hmmm:
The 460 is only a 160W card, for the 1024mb model.
the 768mb is a 150W card.
System wattage under full stress, tested with a i7 o'd to 3.75 ghz, energy saving functions disabled for mobo, and to boot the test system has water cooling, additional cold cathode lights: 307W.
600w is ample. If you are running a sli config, then 750-800 is adequate.

SOURCE (http://www.guru3d.com/article/geforce-gtx-460-review/13)

nVidia's take is:


Thermal and Power Specs:
Maximum GPU Temperature (in C)104 C Maximum Graphics Card Power (W)160 W Minimum Recommended System Power (W)450 W Supplementary Power Connectors6-pin & 6-pinCooling, or rather how much you need is entirely dependent upon person's case, for one.

[SeaWolf U-57]

as I said you will need extra cooling fans look at the temp's
your example sheet is running at.
they are quoting bare min system and not long term running
but still your mind is made up

[Feuer Frei!]

as I said you will need extra cooling fans look at the temp's
your example sheet is running at.
they are quoting bare min system and not long term running
but still your mind is made up
What about the temps? Temps are perfectly acceptable,
Graphics Card TEMP IDLE C TEMP FULL C
eVGA GeForce GTX 460 768MB 32 56
MSI GTX 460 Cyclone OC 35 58
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 460 768MB 33 60
eVGA GeForce GTX 460 768MB SC edition 34 64
Zotac GTX 460 1024MB 34 72
Palit GTX 460 1GB Sonic Platinum 36 79

Temps actually seem to be on par with my 2nd rig's 570.
And very good temps too in testing (460).
A gtx 480 runs at 50C idle and up to 91C full load.
That card is also designed to run a bit hotter.
Bare min. system requirements? You're talking about nVidia's psu requirements? Or the the guru3d guys test setup?
As with all min requirements when it comes to computing, whether it is gaming or hardware, i never recommend "go for minimum, you'll be ok".
Never have, never will.
I don't understand your "they are quoting bare minimum system".
Long term running? Stress tests are designed to do just that, test hardware to it's fullest, in a shorter amount of time than would a 1 week Crysis gaming binge.
Stress tests are designed to give a realistic and unbiased test result for consumers who are looking at purchasing said product.
A stress test shouldn't need to take longer than 30 minutes of testing for heat, cpu stress/overload, any tearing, stuttering, visual abnormalities, frame rate drops etc etc etc.
Made my mind up?
Well, i have. But it's not about me here though, so i'm just giving advice.

[Velero]

Thanks guys, I finally opened her up, and sadly it seems the PSU is a 500 Watt model, as can be seen from the picture below.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Velero22/140720113039.jpg[/IMG]


From your comments a 460 card will be pushing my system to the very limits of it´s capacity. So the question is now, do I go ahead purchase the card, and try to see if it works, or alternatively should I bow to the inevitable and buy a 700/750 watt PSU? Would a low spec one endanger my system? i.e burn the whole thing:wah:.

Thank you once again guys, I see that replacing the card is not as easy as at first it would have seemed.:salute:

[Gerald]

You must keep in mind that it is NOT, only graphic card that needs watts, with a good amp values,you have the HDD, fans, and possibly another that requires power...

[TheDarkWraith]

You must also ensure that the 'rails' of the power supply can supply the required amperage to the video card. It can be a 700W PS but if the +12V rail can only supply 15A and the video card requires 20A then it will do you no good. Watch out for this pit fall.

In the photo above the 500W PS's +12V rail can supply 16A. I don't know what the spec is for the 460 card. Plugging in multiple connectors doubles the amperage. i.e.: for my 590 card it requires 50+ amps of current and my +12V rails can supply 35A (1.2kW PS) thus it has two 6 pin connectors plugged into the card to meet this requirement.

[Feuer Frei!]

Velero, try this website, put your data in and it will output a suggested PSU requirement, for your system:

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

Also i recommend my PSU Guide in the PC Hardware/Software forum here:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=182356

Edit: A too low a wattage psu can cause all sorts of trouble for you, loss of data, fried hardware, the list goes on.

[Velero]

Thank you guys for all your informative advice, an absolute tour the force of information. Nice to go back to using measurements such as volts and amps which I haven't revisited since my school days. Who can forget those circuit boards. I see now the importance that a good power supply is in today´s PC setup.

Well after some careful reading (thank you Freil for the link) I'm beginning to understand the label on the PSU, which in itself is great.:know:

In the photo above the 500W PS's +12V " rail can supply 16A. I don't know what the spec is for the 460 card. Plugging in multiple connectors doubles the amperage. i.e.: for my 590 card it requires 50+ amps of current and my +12V rails can supply 35A (1.2kW PS) thus it has two 6 pin connectors plugged into the card to meet this requirement. So if understand this rightly using "Amps multiplied by Voltage equals Watts" equation, then a single 12v rail @ 16a has a 192 Watt capacity, that box can then be ticked, I now have to add all the different components and add the combined usage while taking care of the rail limitations. Using the PSUcalculator website gives me a recommended PSU of 430 watts (This figure seems low so I will need to double check). I note that Darkwraiths 12v rails @ 35a combined gives a 840 watt capacity! Impressive stuff. :88)

With this new perspective I decided to open her up again. Now I am a little perplexed, as there isn't a 2x2 4 cable plugged directly to the GT 9500, it seems connected directly to the motherboard as per the picture below. So does this mean that the 12v rail feeds the motherboard directly by-passing the card?:hmmm: Which cable corresponds to which rail? Perhaps I´m getting a bit ahead of myself, as there is no need for this much detail, but one question seems to always lead to another.

http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Velero22/IMG00221-20110716-2217.jpg


As you can see, this thread has now morphed to a completely new beast, not so much now about budget card but more about specification requirements. It´s slowly becoming apparent that it might be worth spending more on a decent setup.

Here below is what Is the PSU that I believe will meet all the requirements, for only 80 euros it should hopefully avoid any pitfalls.

OCZ PC StealthXStream II 700 W



700W Configurations
150 x 140 x 86mm (W x L x H)
ATX12V v2.2 and EPS12V
Main connector: 20+ 4-pin ATX
Non-Modular
High efficiency:
83% @ 115V (Typical load)
85% @ 230V (Typical load)
80+ Certified
Overvoltage/Overcurrent/Short-Circuit protection
Active PFC
MTBF:100,000 hours
OCZ PowerWhisper Technology
120mm ball-bearing fan
3 year warranty backed by OCZ's exclusive
PowerSwap Warranty replacement program.
700W Connectors
20+4-pin ATX
4+4-pin CPU
6-pin PCI-E
6+2-pin PCI-E
6 x Peripheral
2 x Floppy
6 x SATA
Output: +3.3V@25A,+5V@25A,+12V1@18A, +12V2@18A, ,+12V3@18A, +12V4@18A- 12V@0.8A,+5VSB @ 3.0A

[TheDarkWraith]

As the 460SE needs 25A of current and your +12V rails are 18A each you have that covered (you'll be plugging in 2 X 6 pin connectors into the video card - ensure each 6 pin connector comes from a different +12V rail).

The power connecter connected to your motherboard (the 4 pin one in the picture) is additional power for the CPU. The Crosshair V Formula has another 4 pin molex connector for even more additional power to the GPUs :88)

The power supply you have chosen looks more than adequate :up:

[Arclight]

What resolution are you running? :06:
With this new perspective I decided to open her up again. Now I am a little perplexed, as there isn't a 2x2 4 cable plugged directly to the GT 9500, it seems connected directly to the motherboard as per the picture below. So does this mean that the 12v rail feeds the motherboard directly by-passing the card?:hmmm:
9500 isn't much of a card, it can draw all the power it needs from the board. Those PCI-E connectors deliver extra power to cards that need it.

Which cable corresponds to which rail?
Should be marked on the unit, perhaps a manual with it. Mine has a non modular cable from 1 rail and 2 modular connectors each supplied by a dedicated rail. Think it's a safe bet that every cable with PCI-E connectors leads off from a separate rail.

It´s slowly becoming apparent that it might be worth spending more on a decent setup.
Always is, gaming PC is a high-performance machine. Cut corners and it comes back to bite you later.


1GB 460 is an excellent card btw, but you might consider stretching a little for a 560. At the same clock speeds, it still beats a 460 by some 10-15% since it has access to the full core.

[BigBANGtheory]

I upgraded today from a DX10.1 ATI 4890 1GB to a DX11 6950 2GB, almost got the Nvidia 570 GTX but I wasnt convinced it was worth the extra £30 given the 6950 has more vram and I can overclock it to near 580 performance.

IMHO Nvidia have a great GPU in the pipe in the form of 'Kepler', promised to double++ the performance that of 'Fermi'! The only downside is that it's due out Q1/Q2 next year but it could be a card to wipe the floor :rock: if priced correctly.

I think thats bad timing for Nvidia because mass market PC gamers are eying up Battlefield3 due out Q4 2011, that is the killer app for the GPU market atm.

You can't beat the performance value of the ATI 6950 atm, but I do think the next round will favour Nvidia in 9 months time. The main question though is will we have the games that use that much GPU power short of users with 3+ screens?

[Webster]

im moving this to the right forum since its about hardware and not the game

[Velero]

Thank you all for your comments, and after much deliberation :hmmm: I've ordered the following:

OCZ PC StealthXStream II 700 W

GeForce GTX 560 - 1 GB GDDR5 -

The combination came in under 250 Euros which includes tax and P&P. This is above the initial budget I set myself , but as I've learned here it pays to spend a little bit more. The PSU should be good to go even if I decide to upgrade at a later stage, and the GTX 560 should be more than adequate for most games out now and in the near future.

Thanks once again for all the enlightening information about the ins and outs of upgrading a PC, as with most things the journey can in itself be rewarding. :yeah:


http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Velero22/SH5Img2011-07-13_200052.jpg

Good Hunting :arrgh!:

[Arclight]

Think that will serve you well. Went to a 460 myself from a 8800gts. As far as demanding games go, it runs things like Crysis, Metro 2033 and Witcher 2 admirably. :yep:

[Castout]

Get GTX 560 instead.

Edit: Ah I see you already decided to get GTX 560. Good choice for value.

[Arclight]

Still kinda wish I'd waited a bit, got a 560 as well... ah well, got nothing to complain about.

[FIREWALL]

Thank you all for your comments, and after much deliberation :hmmm: I've ordered the following:

OCZ PC StealthXStream II 700 W

GeForce GTX 560 - 1 GB GDDR5 -

The combination came in under 250 Euros which includes tax and P&P. This is above the initial budget I set myself , but as I've learned here it pays to spend a little bit more. The PSU should be good to go even if I decide to upgrade at a later stage, and the GTX 560 should be more than adequate for most games out now and in the near future.

Thanks once again for all the enlightening information about the ins and outs of upgrading a PC, as with most things the journey can in itself be rewarding. :yeah:


http://i1105.photobucket.com/albums/h356/Velero22/SH5Img2011-07-13_200052.jpg

Good Hunting :arrgh!:

Your first post and final post is why I don't believe them when, they say, "On a BUDGET" :yep: I wait untill the others here talk them up. I see the 100lb budget found enough for a PSU too. :haha:

[gammaphialpha]

Go for EVGA GTX 580 and get a higher watts PSU :hmmm: