no available decoys in 1942?

[Frank Ravelli]

Hi there,

i´m playing a campaign and by august 42 i haven´t been able to install decoys when at base (in pearl harbor). Of course it gets really difficult to get rid of jap destroyers without them (I´m playing TMO 2.1) Any idea why this happens?

Thank you in advance.

[Armistead]

Historically decoys didn't become available until late war, so TMO corrected the date for decoys. I think with stock you got them right away, didn't happen. I use RSRD, but don't think that has any effect and decoys become available around September of 44.

[razark]

I'm not aware of what decoys were available to U.S. boats in WWII. Does anyone have information on those?

[Sailor Steve]

NAC echo repeater decoys were first ordered in June 1944 after testing that February, so probably were first installed around August that year.
http://books.google.com/books?id=7qztw0sO2NgC&pg=PA247&lpg=PA247&dq=american+submarine+decoys&source=bl&ots=_NlI6zxMnz&sig=t2qX9LjQQ6CzREne0Gbg7kiONDw&hl=en&ei=D4oaTq3yB4fWiAKppe3RBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC0Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Specific information on United States submarines launching debris must lie in individual reports, because a quick web search didn't turn up anything.

[FIREWALL]

This sounds to me as something you might\edit in the Submarine Cfg files.

I know you can change availibilty of stuff in SH3 with or without GWX easily.

I'm just not that savey with SH4 files.

[razark]

NAC echo repeater decoys were first ordered in June 1944 after testing that February, so probably were first installed around August that year.
Thanks. I'll have to take the time to look into that.

Specific information on United States submarines launching debris must lie in individual reports, because a quick web search didn't turn up anything.
I thought that was a well known procedure. The documentary "Operation Petticoat" mentions it, as well as several other fine reference works.

[Sailor Steve]

Thanks. I'll have to take the time to look into that.The documentary "Operation Petticoat" mentions it,
:rotfl2:

I laugh of course, but if it was known well enough for them to put in in a movie, no matter how silly, the procedure must have been tried at some point or another.

[FIREWALL]

Ejecting debris is done in RunSilent Run Deep towards end of movie.

[barkhorn45]

Was'nt there also a way of releasing fuel oil to create an oil slick?

[Daniel Prates]

Ejecting debris?

I am betting that a certain situation came to a couple of minds, as it did to me: that Romulan captain who jettisoned his own centurion's body, along with some debris, to mislead the enterprise in the episode "the balance of terror". OBVIOUSLY, Kirk didn't buy it and, though blasting his foe away with torpedoes and phasers, was still able to show mercy and comradery at the end. Ah, that Kirk. Bet some japanese DD captain would not be as merciful.

Sorry guys... i could not avert mentioning this... :oops:

[razark]

Sorry guys... i could not avert mentioning this... :oops:
That episode fits, seeing as it really was a submarine movie.

The Enemy Below, I think.

[andy_311]

I play FORTS and i only used them from early 43 and they are availabe never used them in 42 so i don't know.

[Sailor Steve]

That episode fits, seeing as it really was a submarine movie.

The Enemy Below, I think.
Yes, it was a direct rip-off...I mean remake...I mean tribute to The Enemy Below.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have not seen a report of decoys being used in World War II by any submarine. I would be very surprised if they hadn't been used a time or two though. The last year of the war was very tough on our submarines.

[razark]

I have not seen a report of decoys being used in World War II by any submarine. I would be very surprised if they hadn't been used a time or two though. The last year of the war was very tough on our submarines.
Even if nothing official was used, some of those guys were quite inventive. Ice cream machines, rocket launchers, even just keeping the high technology stuff working, there was a lot of knowledge and imagination in those boats. Someone probably tried to rig up something at some point.

[Daniel Prates]

Exactely how the torpedo tube expelled the torpedo? A burst of compressed air? Could you simply stuff trash on the tube and expell it the same way?

[Dogfish40]

Was'nt there also a way of releasing fuel oil to create an oil slick?

:haha:Releasing fuel oil was easy. Just sit still and let a DC do it automatically!!:har:
...Oh well...never mind...
Actually, the most I've been able to come up with so far is a small blurb from Admrl Lockwood's fine book "Sink 'em all" and it's not very much, but he does say this...and I quote,

"Early one morning I went to the San Diego Naval Laboratory of the University of California Division of War Research (UCDWR) at the invitation of Dr. G. P. Harnwell. He said they were developing gadgets for both submarine and antisubmarine warfare and that perhaps I might be interested in them. Thus, by a casual visit, was begun one of the most valuable contacts which submarines had with the scientific world. They did indeed have gadgets in which I was interested: noisemakers to jam enemy listening gear; decoys to throw antisubmarine craft off the track of hard-pressed submarines and an FM Sonar (Frequency Modulated Sonar) , which could be used for locating submerged objects."

[Sailor Steve]

Exactely how the torpedo tube expelled the torpedo? A burst of compressed air? Could you simply stuff trash on the tube and expell it the same way?
In theory yes you could. In fact that was discussed in this thread in posts #4, 6, 7 & 8. In the original Silent Hunter there was a command for "Launch Debris". It didn't always work, though. In fact it hardly ever worked, but you could do it.

[razark]

In the original Silent Hunter there was a command for "Launch Debris".
Was it in SH1? I remember using it in Silent Service II. Saved my boat many a times that way. Didn't always work there, either.


I'm partly of the opinion that even if it wasn't authentic, it should be available, seeing that it's such an established part of the genre.

[Daniel Prates]

I think it probably was authentic, but unadvised in 99.9% of situations.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have seen photos of the decoy launchers. They did not use the torpedo tubes, but a separate launcher. Since they did exist on some submarines I think it's appropriate that we would have access to them some of the time.

I'm a stickler for historically justifiable conduct. Whether or not the practice actually was used, I'm in favor of using it if it COULD have been used with the knowledge and equipment of the time.

[Daniel Prates]

I have seen photos of the decoy launchers. They did not use the torpedo tubes, but a separate launcher.

But I'm guessing that specific launcher would be impossible to use if you wanted to shove some debris and eject it, right?

BTW, was it internally accessible? For reloading and such? Or was it like smoke pods in tanks, where you have it installed outside and can only shoot it, not reload it?

[razark]

But I'm guessing that specific launcher would be impossible to use if you wanted to shove some debris and eject it, right?
From what I remember seeing, it would not be large enough for anything more than a handful. They are much smaller than a torpedo tube.

BTW, was it internally accessible?
I have seen them on the inside of the boats, so they should be reloadable.

[TorpX]

Was it in SH1? I remember using it in Silent Service II. Saved my boat many a times that way. Didn't always work there, either.


I'm partly of the opinion that even if it wasn't authentic, it should be available, seeing that it's such an established part of the genre.

It was definately in SHCE. I used it on a number of occasions when I was in trouble. I think it even worked once. :DL If the enemy was inexperienced they might be fooled, if not, you only confirmed your position.