Libya conflict: France air-dropped arms to rebels

[Gerald]

France has air-dropped weapons to rebels fighting Col Muammar Gaddafi's troops in Western Libya, the French military has confirmed.

Light arms and ammunition were sent to Berber tribal fighters in the Nafusa mountains in early June, it said.

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/3135/5376180953761808.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/703/5376180953761808.jpg/)
Libyan rebels have been making military gains in the west of the country.

Earlier, a report in Le Figaro newspaper said the arms included rocket launchers and anti-tank missiles.

France, a leading force in the Nato operation in Libya, did not inform its allies about the move, Le Figaro said.

"We began by dropping humanitarian aid: food, water and medical supplies," said Col Thierry Burkhard, spokesman for the French general staff.

"During the operation, the situation for the civilians on the ground worsened. We dropped arms and means of self-defence, mainly ammunition," he told AFP.

He said the arms were "light infantry weapons of the rifle type", dropped over a period of several days "so that civilians would not be massacred".

The BBC's Christian Fraser in Paris says the statement is likely to bring further criticism from the likes of Russia and China, who believe Nato and its allies have already gone beyond the remit of the UN resolution authorising international military action in Libya for the protection of civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-13955751

Note: 29 June 2011 Last updated at 14:21 GMT

[Herr-Berbunch]

Good.

I'm glad somebody finally has, and I'm glad it's also not coming out of my pocket! :yep:

[Gerald]

Giving weapons to the rebels,have been quite controversial in some countries, and even within parts of the NATO.

[Jimbuna]

Good.

I'm glad somebody finally has, and I'm glad it's also not coming out of my pocket! :yep:

Too bloody right!!


Light arms and ammunition


Better than nothing I suspect...but only just.

[Gerald]

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/2900/ad0ce332a1c511e092cbc08.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/43/ad0ce332a1c511e092cbc08.jpg/)

[Castout]

Too bloody right!!



Better than nothing I suspect...but only just.

Absolutely better than nothing at all. Glad they did that.

The rebels have taken some armors(saw a T-55 and a ZSU SPAA on TV) from an arms depot they won near Zintan in the west as well as tonnes of ammunition and weapons before being pushed back later by Gaddafi forces.

[Skybird]

Anyone willing to bet against me that some of these weapons sooner or later will be pointed and fired at Western troops, and will be used in the supression of opposition to orthodox Islamic agendas, and will be traded like cheese or carpets - in Lybia, and/or outside Lybia?

But I guess I must already be happy that they did not deliver any hightech weapons, or mustn't I? Like the French selling most modern Milan ATGMs, amongst other most modern military equipement, to the bad man Gaddafi himself in the recent two years?

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Anyone willing to bet against me that some of these weapons sooner or later will be pointed and fired at Western troops, and will be used in the supression of opposition to orthodox Islamic agendas, and will be traded like cheese or carpets - in Lybia, and/or outside Lybia?

But I guess I must already be happy that they did not deliver any hightech weapons, or mustn't I? Like the French selling most modern Milan ATGMs, amongst other most modern military equipement, to the bad man Gaddafi himself in the recent two years?
I wouldn't bet against you on this. In my opinion things are little bit too "oddly" in Middle East and North Africa to predict future.

Two of topic questions for you Skybird:
- I have quite often (like in your post) Libya written as Lybia. Is this how you write the name in German language?
- I like your Dr. House quote. Can I copy it to my own sig?

[the_tyrant]

Isn't there an arms embargo or something?

- I like your Dr. House quote. Can I copy it to my own sig?

Skybird, would you by any chance know what episode it's from?

[Herr-Berbunch]

Isn't there an arms embargo or something?


From UN Resolution 1973

...and tightened sanctions on the Qadhafi regime and its supporters.
So arms can be distributed to those against the regime!

...flight ban would not apply to flights that had as their sole purpose humanitarian aid, the evacuation of foreign nationals, enforcing the ban or other purposes ***8220;deemed necessary for the benefit of the Libyan people***8221;.This one's a bit more dubious. Must be the last bit.

Source http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm



Edit - and the quote is from the episode House vs God (Episode 19, Season 2).

[Platapus]

Isn't there an arms embargo or something?


Unfortunately, or fortunately depending on your viewpoint, UNSCR 1970 only specifies an arms embargo with relation to Libyan Arab Jamahiriya. It did not mention any rebel group.

The question to be considered: Is Libyan Arab Jamahiriya the country of Libya or just the current sovereign government of Libya?

One can interpret this question in several ways. Involved parties usually choose to interpret it to their advantage.

If the UNSCR subcommittee approves the sale/delivery of weapons to the rebels, it would not be a violation of UNSCR 1970. Whether this has occurred, I don't know.

[Gerald]

Russia has strongly criticised France for dropping weapons to Libyan rebels and demanded an explanation from Paris.

"If this is confirmed, it is a very crude violation of UN Security Council resolution 1970," Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said.

The African Union has also criticised the move, saying it risks causing a "Somalia-sation" of Libya.

The French military says it has dropped arms to Berber tribal fighters in the mountains south-west of the capital.

Mr Lavrov said Russia had formally requested information from France about the move, to check that it "corresponds with reality".

Mr Lavrov is due to meet French counterpart Alain Juppe in Moscow on Friday.
'Undefended populations'

Moscow abstained from the UN Security Council vote in March that authorised an international mission in Libya to protect civilians.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13979632


Note: Update Record,30 June 2011 Last updated at 15:22 GMT

[Betonov]

Russia has strongly criticised France for dropping weapons to Libyan rebels and demanded an explanation from Paris.

Russia strongly critised the west when they tried to bomb Serb artillery killing civilians in Sarajevo and when NATO considered sending in troops to protect towns like Srebrenica. They can just shut the **** up

[Gerald]

Russia strongly critised the west when they tried to bomb Serb artillery killing civilians in Sarajevo and when NATO considered sending in troops to protect towns like Srebrenica. They can just shut the **** up You know the old legend, which says, "you should not throw stones in glass houses"

[Betonov]

You know the old legend, which says, "you should not throw stones in glass houses"

I know that one, but.... I don't get the connection with me ranting over Russia ??

[Gerald]

I know that one, but.... I don't get the connection with me ranting over Russia ?? It has nothing to do with your comment, but a general reply, I support what you said, regarding what Moscow said, :yep:

[the_tyrant]

From UN Resolution 1973

So arms can be distributed to those against the regime!

This one's a bit more dubious. Must be the last bit.

Source http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2011/sc10200.doc.htm



Edit - and the quote is from the episode House vs God (Episode 19, Season 2).

ah, that clears things up. Thank you:salute:

[Betonov]

It has nothing to do with your comment, but a general reply, I support what you said, regarding what Moscow said, :yep:

Sorry, little paranoid these last... years :shifty:

[Gerald]

Sorry, little paranoid these last... years :shifty: No problem, just relax it will be good for you :up:

[Gerald]

Britain is providing limited assistance to the Libyan rebels fighting the forces of Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi, including protective clothing for police officers, Foreign Secretary William Hague said on Thursday, a day after France acknowledged providing light weapons to the rebels.

The British military has furnished 5,000 sets of body armor, 6,650 police uniforms, and 5,000 high visibility vests and T-shirts, Foreign Minister William Hague said in a written statement to Parliament, adding that the supply of such equipment was “fully in line” with United Nations resolutions governing arms embargoes.

“This equipment will enable the civilian police to carry out their functions more securely and better protect National Transitional Council representatives and the significant international and NGO communities in Benghazi, Misurata and other areas of Libya,” Mr. Hague said.

On Wednesday, a spokesman in Paris said the French military had provided the rebels with arms and ammunition, including assault rifles, machine guns and rocket-propelled grenades and launchers, the first Western government to acknowledge having done so. The aid, which was delivered along with food and medicines, did not include heavy weapons, he said, and was appropriate for civilians to use in self-defense.

With a “no-boots-on-the-ground policy” in Libya, the French, British and United States governments are hoping that the rebels, with the aid of alliance airstrikes, will be able to topple the Qaddafi government.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/01/world/europe/01london.html?ref=world


Note: Update Record, June 30, 2011

[Skybird]

Two of topic questions for you Skybird:
- I have quite often (like in your post) Libya written as Lybia. Is this how you write the name in German language?

No, it is my opwn special charme. In German the name is pronounced like "Lübi-en" which would be written like "Lybien", but in fact it is correctly written "Libyen" in German. I stumble over the sound of the pronounciation. To my defence I may say that this mistake is often made in written German, not just by me.

I like your Dr. House quote. Can I copy it to my own sig?

Sure, it is not my property, but House-property.

Skybird, would you by any chance know what episode it's from?
I'm a fan of the series and started to collect the DVDs after following the seasons on TV, but I can'T tell which episode the quote is from. I picked it from a House-quotes-site. Almost every episode has one or two quotes worth to be laughed about a second and third time! :DL

[TLAM Strike]

No, it is my opwn special charme. In German the name is pronounced like "Lübi-en" which would be written like "Lybien", but in fact it is correctly written "Libyen" in German. I stumble over the sound of the pronounciation. To my defence I may say that this mistake is often made in written German, not just by me. Seen some Germans spell Iraq: 'Irak'. Translations always mess things up. :yep:

I'm a fan of the series and started to collect the DVDs after following the seasons on TV, but I can'T tell which episode the quote is from. its from episode 219 "House vs. God"
:03:

I used to like that show but it got too repetitive for my tastes.

[Skybird]

Seen some Germans spell Iraq: 'Irak'.
Actually that is correct spelling in German. It is Irak indeed.

In French it is l'Irak, too.

In Spanish it is with K, in Italian with Q.

[Jimbuna]

I know that one, but.... I don't get the connection with me ranting over Russia ??

Me neither if I'm tbh.

[Betonov]

Me neither if I'm tbh.

tbh ??

[Krauter]

To be honest.

I see the French are switching stories somewhat. They went from acknowledging sending light rifle type weapons to Assault Rifles, Machine Guns and RPGs... :shifty:

[Betonov]

To be honest.

Thanks :up:

@Jimbuna: There's no connection. It was aimed at the Russians. At least that's how I understood Vendor. The Russians are always loud when it comes to western responses, humanitarian or not, while themselves have more skeletons in their closet that they should diplomaticly isolate themselves like Japan pre 19th century.

And when I say Russia I mean Kremlin or Moscow, not the average Sergei and Natasha walking the streets

[Jimbuna]

Aye...rgr that.

[Gerald]

Aye...rgr that. Good move Jim,:DL

[Gerald]

Thanks :up:

@Jimbuna: There's no connection. It was aimed at the Russians. At least that's how I understood Vendor. The Russians are always loud when it comes to western responses, humanitarian or not, while themselves have more skeletons in their closet that they should diplomaticly isolate themselves like Japan pre 19th century.

And when I say Russia I mean Kremlin or Moscow, not the average Sergei and Natasha walking the streets It was exactly what I meant when I said that I support your comment, regarding Moscow's reaction to the incident!

[Betonov]

It was exactly what I meant when I said that I support your comment, regarding Moscow's reaction to the incident!

Don't worry. That I understood while my hereditory paranoia stepped down :03:

[Herr-Berbunch]

No problem, just relax it will be good for you :up:


Me thinks that's not the first time those words have been used on a young Slovenian boy. :hmmm:


:03:


:har:

[Gerald]

Me thinks that's not the first time those words have been used on a young Slovenian boy. :hmmm:


:03:


:har: Hey .... I do not like that routine, but might have to do it for you :rock:

[Betonov]

Me thinks that's not the first time those words have been used on a young Slovenian boy. :hmmm:

The last time in 1991 and it didn't end well :03:

[Gerald]

Don't worry. That I understood while my hereditory paranoia stepped down :03: :salute:

[Jimbuna]

Me thinks that's not the first time those words have been used on a young Slovenian boy. :hmmm:


:03:


:har:

Do you really think? :hmmm:.....no don't bother it doesn't bare thinking about :o