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View Full Version : Do we really want sex offenders to live like wild animals?


Feuer Frei!
06-26-11, 08:44 AM
From some Bleeding Hearts, comes this:

For more than a year, Quinton Smith has lived beneath a bridge overlooking a canal, on a slope peppered with glass shards. For nearly two years, JJ has camped out in the woods, a bucolic setting shattered by the constant roar of traffic from nearby Interstate 595.
"I'm lonely, but I'm at peace out here," JJ said as he gave me a tour of his setup, complete with latrine, tarp-covered kitchen with propane grill and a tent with an army cot and fan.
Welcome to the feral existence of South Florida's registered sex offenders.

They've done their crimes and served their time, but can't re-enter society like other criminals. Instead, they face an oppressive array of residency restrictions upon their release from prison.

After a wave of get-tough local ordinances banning offenders from living within a certain distance of schools, parks, playgrounds, day-care centers and school bus stops, there's virtually no place left for them to go.
"The whole thing is just insanity," said Jill Levenson, a clinical social worker who headed a Broward County (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/) task force two years ago examining the issue. "I know some of these people have done bad things, but this is not a sound criminal justice policy. It's a recipe for failure."
Last week, 24 sex offenders got evicted from a Fort Lauderdale (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/topic/us/florida/broward-county/fort-lauderdale-PLGEO100100403070000.topic) motel after the Sun Sentinel inquired about their presence.
Some offenders find rooms or homes outside the restricted areas. Some live in flophouses and cheap motels in commercial zones. A minister in Palm Beach County (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/) has set up a group village for offenders known as Miracle Park.
And then there are offenders like Smith and JJ, who have taken up residence beneath bridges and in hidden camps with the approval of their probation officers.
"From a human point of view, can you imagine telling someone their only option is sleeping under a bridge?" Levenson said.
How this makes us safer, I have no idea.
"It's stressing everybody out big time," said Smith, 43, whose bridge near State Road 7 in unincorporated Broward is now home to four offenders. Smith spent nearly eight years in prison for a sexual assault on a minor.
"This is like a life sentence," said JJ, 46, who has to wear an ankle bracelet and a GPS monitor on his belt as part of his 35-year probation. He spent three years in prison for a host of charges in 2003 stemming from a sexual relationship with a 16-year-old.

J didn't want his full name used because he fears getting attacked or evicted from his makeshift camp. Sex offenders' addresses are posted on the Internet by the state – he lists the closest street."In the public's eyes we're monsters, but not all of us are monsters," said JJ, 46, a former computer technician who now makes use of the skills he learned as an Eagle Scout in New Jersey.
JJ has neat piles of firewood at his campsite entrance. He catches fish and crab in a nearby pond with a trap he made from chicken wire. He has planted citronella bushes to repel mosquitoes, and has tried to cultivate a vegetable garden to supplement his $200 monthly food stamps.


The strangest part of the residency restrictions: They only apply between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. The rest of the time, offenders are allowed to be out and about. Smith and JJ spend most of their daylight hours at friends' homes, where they shower, watch TV and use computers. JJ also has to spend 10 hours daily recharging his GPS system.
I met Smith and JJ last week when I went looking for another sex offender named George Horne. I wrote about him two years ago, when he lived under the same bridge as Smith.
At Christmas 2009, Horne told me he was tired of living "like an animal" and was considering willfully violating his probation so that he could go back to prison.
Sure enough, he violated probation one month later. He's now housed at the South Bay Correctional Facility, where he will live at taxpayer expense through September 2014.
So we all pay for a system that seems utterly barbaric. In a civilized society, there has to be a better way.


SOURCE (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/fl-sex-offenders-mayocol-b062611-20110625,0,505666.column)
Okey-dokey, so this article is either badly written/edited or just plain stupid.
Why? Well:


"The whole thing is just insanity," said Jill Levenson, a clinical social worker who headed a Broward County (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/) task force two years ago examining the issue. "I know some of these people have done bad things, but this is not a sound criminal justice policy. It's a recipe for failure."

"From a human point of view, can you imagine telling someone their only option is sleeping under a bridge?" Levenson said.

Both quotes are moot. Why? Because (and the article says so):
And then there are offenders like Smith and JJ, who have taken up residence beneath bridges and in hidden camps with the approval of their probation officers.
Telling someone? And prior approval. 2 different things.
Now if it isn't true, then the article is reporting the wrong stuff.
We move on:
"This is like a life sentence," said JJ, 46, who has to wear an ankle bracelet and a GPS monitor on his belt as part of his 35-year probation.
Oh yea, the drama of it all. Dear oh dear.

"In the public's eyes we're monsters, but not all of us are monsters," said JJ
No, that's right, there is a clear definition and line between repeat offenders or one-time offenders, right? Wrong!
Next,
The strangest part of the residency restrictions: They only apply between the hours of 10 p.m. and 6 a.m. The rest of the time, offenders are allowed to be out and about
Interesting. Looks like a fail-proof system.
Why the hell have them even under the bridge outside those hours?
Why? What's the point? Ok, so it's like checking in with your parole officer, who will meet you under the bridge, or in the makeshift camp, complete with neatly-stacked fire wood and ample supplies of Mosquito repellent. :haha:

So then, this comes up again:
In a civilized society, there has to be a better way.
The old bleeding heart question, if we treat these 'erred citizens' like this does this make us any better?
Treating them like what?
Like the linked article? Living in the outdoors, free time btw the hours of 22:00 and 06:00. Or, in jail with all sorts of benefits, at the bereft of us, the tax payer.
Hmm...




(http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/fl-sex-offenders-mayocol-b062611-20110625,0,505666.column)

MH
06-26-11, 10:40 AM
Do we really want sex offenders to live like wild animals?

Why not?
unless they can be treated.

BossMark
06-26-11, 10:43 AM
Why not?
unless they can be treated.
I know how I think they should treated :down:

Feuer Frei!
06-26-11, 10:46 AM
Why not?
unless they can be treated.
There are of course implications to this.
The moral, the ethical, and also safety concerns by the community are just a few.
However, having said that i do not take the side of the bleeding hearters and really think that the article is just a cop-out to advertise some people's moral stances.
Ignoring the cold hard realities and insinuating in mild forms that we should feel bad about ourselves, as a community of law-abiding citizens that this is happening with offenders of the law.
That, i take offense to.

mookiemookie
06-26-11, 10:52 AM
If they've served their debt to society, why are they banished to the margins of civilization?

Feuer Frei!
06-26-11, 11:01 AM
If they've served their debt to society, why are they banished to the margins of civilization?
I'm assuming the article is using the fictitious named to illustrate that some, if not all of them are on parole, certainly in 'JJ's ' case (35 years), and that this a monitoring system.
Not all of them are at the outer limits of civilization, others are in motels, houses and whatnot.
Why they chose these 'parks' or camps with the ludicrous curfew times is beyond me.

MH
06-26-11, 11:08 AM
There are of course implications to this.
The moral, the ethical, and also safety concerns by the community are just a few.
However, having said that i do not take the side of the bleeding hearters and really think that the article is just a cop-out to advertise some people's moral stances.
Ignoring the cold hard realities and insinuating in mild forms that we should feel bad about ourselves, as a community of law-abiding citizens that this is happening with offenders of the law.
That, i take offense to.

Every case should be judged by itself.
There are serial sex offenders or it might be just someone who made an mistake.
As far as serial sex offenders -build a sanatorium for them if it makes one feel better.
If you can hospitalise nutcase that endangers public then why not a serial sex offender?
Oh yeah tax money.

fpg9091
06-26-11, 11:11 AM
I wonder how the father of the 16 year old feels. Did he post here?

BossMark
06-26-11, 11:13 AM
Every case should be judged by itself.

As far as serial sex offenders -build a sanatorium for them if it makes one feel better.
If you can hospitalise nutcase that endangers public then why not a serial sex offender?
Oh yeah tax money.
Just castrate the bastards, :03: but thats just my opinion :hmmm:

MH
06-26-11, 11:19 AM
Just castrate the bastards, :03: but thats just my opinion :hmmm:

It should be voluntary choice(if that's only possible treatment).
if taken no Internet database or public need to know-back to anonymity.

Jimbuna
06-26-11, 11:43 AM
I've an open mind on the issue but definitely a tougher more stringent one on repeat offenders.

Armistead
06-26-11, 01:42 PM
Most studies show that these men never change and many repeat crimes.
Still, most do live in homes or apts, just research your states sex crime addresses as most states list them.

We have one in our neighborhood, an elderly gentlemen that lives 3 doors down. He moved in with a older lady that really doesn't belive he did it, another case of abusing a step child.

A few years ago on Halloween I noticed him parked in several places in the neighborhood just watching. I went and talked later to the lady he lives with when he wasn't there and she said he went to a work party that night in another town......

My daughter is grown, but no one here trust the man.

These offenders should be in jail. My only concern is that many men get accused and don't do it, but how do you honestly revolve a he said she said. Other studies show hateful wives often ploy with kids to do such.

Thunder
06-26-11, 01:59 PM
Curious as to what constitutes a sex offender in the states.
Pedophilia? (pretty sure about this)
Sexual Assault? (rapists)?
Underage consensual sex(assuming both parties are the same age)?

Basically unsure by what criteria people are labeled "Sex offenders"

never mind.. wikipedia.

Jimbuna
06-26-11, 02:23 PM
I could certainly answer that with regard to the UK....anyone convicted of a criminal act of a sexual nature involving another person or persons.

mookiemookie
06-26-11, 03:55 PM
Curious as to what constitutes a sex offender in the states.
Pedophilia? (pretty sure about this)
Sexual Assault? (rapists)?
Underage consensual sex(assuming both parties are the same age)?

Basically unsure by what criteria people are labeled "Sex offenders"

never mind.. wikipedia.

Or a 16 year old who sends naked pictures of his ex-girlfriend to his friends. BAM! Child pornographer. Sex offender for life. Hope you didn't have any plans on getting a decent job!

gimpy117
06-26-11, 04:22 PM
I wonder how the father of the 16 year old feels. Did he post here?

well...she's 16...she also had a part to play in that drama. it's one thing if it was some 5 year old or a rape...but that girl knew full well what she was doing was illegal. It doesn't absolve jj of any blame though.

I myself had a girl lie to me and all of my friends that she was "18" all 6 of us believed her. I almost got in trouble too when i was driving her back late at night (i offered her a ride back from where we were hanging as a group). I got pulled over for a headlight out...and they ask for our I'd's and she starts saying shes actually 15. My jaw about dropped. I had to convince two officers that nothing was going to happen, or did happen. Luckily they believed me (probably because it was true).

So really, I have no remorse for this "poor girl". she knew what she was doing.

Krauter
06-26-11, 04:30 PM
To be honest? I don't feel anything reading this post. A part of me says good, kick all of the scum, as they say, living off of taxpayers dollars in the prisons into waled/fenced/confined areas like this.

If they chose do to do this, just once then that was their decision.

To me this at least is a milder punishment then I could think of. Barbaric and cruel they say? These people have access to computers, TVs and all the luxury items after a certain time. What of internet predators? Give them access to the internet and what do you think they're after?

The whole system is failing in my eyes because we're not harsh enough on people like this. If a sex offender knew what life had in store for him if he was about to commit a crime do you think he'd do the crime knowing he'd have prison for a few years and then get out? I think he'd do it. If he knew that he'd have to live life on the streets or on the run for the rest of his life with no help or love from society do you think he'd do it? I think the chances are a lot slimmer..

Tribesman
06-26-11, 06:34 PM
Only two things really matter with this.
Does it do what it is meant to do?
Is it value for money?

Feuer Frei!
06-26-11, 06:39 PM
The whole system is failing in my eyes because we're not harsh enough on people like this. If a sex offender knew what life had in store for him if he was about to commit a crime do you think he'd do the crime knowing he'd have prison for a few years and then get out? I think he'd do it. If he knew that he'd have to live life on the streets or on the run for the rest of his life with no help or love from society do you think he'd do it? I think the chances are a lot slimmer..
In this case, the justice system has a lot to answer for.
Not strict enough. Not consistent enough. For a start.

Snestorm
06-27-11, 01:15 AM
As far as I'm concerned, rape should be a capital offense.

Reece
06-27-11, 02:03 AM
there has to be a better wayYes... castration!:yep:

Krauter
06-27-11, 04:23 AM
Yes... castration!:yep:

This :up:

Tribesman
06-27-11, 05:22 AM
There seems to be several people talking "tough" yet they are clearly not thinking at all.

August
06-27-11, 09:11 AM
As far as I'm concerned, rape should be a capital offense.

That's great until someone is falsely accused of rape by a jealous ex...

Krauter
06-27-11, 09:28 AM
There seems to be several people talking "tough" yet they are clearly not thinking at all.

Please enlighten me then.

Penguin
06-27-11, 09:52 AM
That's great until someone is falsely accused of rape by a jealous ex...

Irreversibility is one of the reasons why capital punishment is bs.

Tribesman
06-27-11, 09:56 AM
Please enlighten me then.
Measure the statement you supported with what Jimbuna wrote then see the bloody big flaw in that attempt on the subject.
At least Thunder thought about what the topic contained.

August
06-27-11, 09:56 AM
Irreversibility is one of the reasons why capital punishment is bs.

Exactly. Spending years in jail for a crime they didn't commit is bad enough but if new evidence comes to light that proves their innocence they at least get the rest of their lives back.

They can't even get that if they have already been executed.

Krauter
06-27-11, 10:30 AM
Ok, I mean obviously if some p.o'd 16 year old ex girlfriend is 1: immature enough, 2: dumb enough and 3: just plane reckless enough, to get an under/overaged ex charged with sex offender status then the system has failed.

When I say make their life hell. "Their" constitutes people as Thunder pointed out (minus the both underaged parties part).

If someone sexually forces themselves on another person, with no consent.

If someone exploits children for sexual gains.

Basically if anyone forces themselves or forces others to show themselves without consent. I constitute that as a sexual crime to be punished to the full extent of the law.

I understand that you can't punish some 19/16 yo kid who had a pissed off girlfriend or whatever. What I am saying is that, if said person is either A) a repeat offender, B) Sexually assaulted a child and something that is most important..C) PROVEN WITHOUT A DOUBT to have sexually assaulted someone. Then they should receive no quarter.

Don't draw this into some grey area argument. I stand by my judgement that in a black and white situation i.e.: Guy touches little kid, that the guy should be punished without mercy.

Penguin
06-27-11, 10:31 AM
Exactly. Spending years in jail for a crime they didn't commit is bad enough but if new evidence comes to light that proves their innocence they at least get the rest of their lives back.

They can't even get that if they have already been executed.

Yup, this has happened much to often to advocate the death penalty.

On the other hand false accusations of rape should also be seriously punished as it can instantly ruin a man's life.

Krauter
06-27-11, 10:35 AM
On the other hand false accusations of rape should also be seriously punished as it can instantly ruin a man's life.

Very much agreed with this

Exactly. Spending years in jail for a crime they didn't commit is bad enough but if new evidence comes to light that proves their innocence they at least get the rest of their lives back.

They can't even get that if they have already been executed.


Note: I don't say that they should be executed. I just don't agree with this half arsed kick them out of society for x amount of hours whilst they're allowed to live under a roof (be it a friends or a motel, etc) for y amount.