To everyone that thinks manual targetting is too difficult...

[Paulski]

it really isn't! :DL

I started playing SH3 with fully automatic targetting, but this soon became boring to me, but when reading all the tutorials about manual targetting I found it too complicated. I then read about enabling manual targetting but leaving everything to the weapons officer. Well, after a while that started to become too easy (and thus boring) too...

Then I remembered that all those tutorials were about manual input too, and thus omitting the manual targetting as intended in the game, through the notepad! I do the data gathering, but leave to input to the "weapon officer" (I may be wrong, but in real life, didn't the weapon officer put in the data into the TDC?).

So this is what I do:

1. I plot the ship's course, and get in position at a 90 degree angle, around 600-700 meters from the ship's course (I've seen in a documentary that the average attack distance was 600 meters).

2. I identify the ship

3. I hit F5 and use the ruler to estimate the distance. then I go back to the periscope (or UZO) and get the range through the notebook, and click the tick to confirm, and once again to update the TDC.

4. Instead of estimating the AoB, I go to the nav map again, and use the protractor to measure the AoB. I then set it in the notebook, confirm it, and update the TDC.

5. All that's left is to measure the speed, wich is the easiest part (as long as you have a decent distance and AoB estimation). Update the TDC and there you go :)


In the attack map the course for the torpedo's may look wrong (as in too long range), but still all my torpedo's hit (except the duds offcourse). I also found that the closer you are to the ship, the less it matters how accurate your data is. But it will be more challenging, the further you are away from the ship. Also, you can leave the nav map out if you want a bit more challenge :)

This really changed my gameplay experience (together with disabling the exterior cams), and I advice you to at least try it, it's really not that hard! :)

[RGA]

With some practice and auxiliary tools such as U-Jagd, manual targeting is indeed quite easy. Ship speed can be measured using chronometer. AOB is measured with U-Jagd tool, or even estimated. A 10-degree deviation of AOB doesn't make much difference, given that target ship isn't moving too fast. Positioning yourself in the right place is difficult, on the other hand. First you must find out the target's course, get ahead and come closer. And everything must be done absolutely secretly. I personally refuse to fire torpedo from less than 2000m if escorts are nearby. When the first torpedo hits, I should be about 50m deep and moving away from the convoy showing only my bow.

Another thing is measurement error. Like in real life, you always get some deviation, therefore multiple reading is necessary. I find the stadimeter terribly inaccurate, especially in bad weather and avoid using it as much as possible. Speed on the other hand can be measured with resonable accuracy. My targeting method is thus as follows: I get 3 bearing in interval of 5 minutes, use geometry to get the target's direction (thought usually I must do at least 5 reading to ensure the accuracy). Then I measure his speed, use it to obtain the range and its exact course. Get the AOB and compare it to the number obtained by U-Jagd tool.

Sometimes you don't have that much time to do all those fancy things. I once spot a cruiser coming straight toward me. Crash dive, 90-degree turn and when I raised my periscope, the cruiser was about to pass right in front of me, just a few hundreds meters away. Just barely enough time for one speed measurement, 18 knots. AOB was estimated of about 90 degree. All four forward tubes were fired, two hit and the cruiser went down immediately.

[Paulski]

Yes, the stadimeter is a pain in the a** when the sea isn't calm, that's why I estimate the range in the nav map first :)

Right now I'm in a IIA so I'm not attacking convoys yet, but yeah, that will become more challenging when I move up to a type VII and start engaging convoys, but I don't mind that ;)

[Tanedin]

I'm terrible at getting the AoB. I've tried all sorts of tricks but what I find works best is usually forcing 90 degree AoB by either racing past the target or waiting for it to pass me depending on where the target is spotted. It's a really lazy way of getting AoB but I rarely miss with it.

[Paulski]

Easiest way to get AoB is with the protractor tool IMO. Just click straight in front of the ship, then on the ship itself and then on your u-boat :)

This is from SH4, but it works the same (from 0:54):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Y58dWSILYY

[vodkaphile]

I've been using manual since Aces of the Deep.

It is a fairly simple process.


If you're having trouble with ranging due to rough seas, use the tick marks to determine range. Instead of explaining how to do this manually, let me link you to some charts.
http://webpages.charter.net/sawdust/sh3/rangetable.gif


http://webpages.charter.net/sawdust/sh3/sh3range.zip (http://webpages.charter.net/sawdust/sh3/sh3range.zip]Link)

[Jimbuna]

Call me a dinosaur but I taught myself by firing at 500m ranges then upping it a few hundred metres at a time until I became sufficiently proficient for my own satisfaction.

[Snestorm]

See if you still find it so easy with the Contact Map Updates turned Off, and your boat not at a dead stop. You might also want to try it from the Bridge, instead of the Chart.

[Hottentot]

See if you still find it so easy with the Contact Map Updates turned Off, and your boat not at a dead stop.

This. I could never stand the map contact updates, since they give perfect / almost perfect data in real time of the target. Target spotted: BOOM! Perfect updating GPS view on the map with exact range and course just few ruler lines away. It's the same reason for why I don't use the weapons officer, he is just way too fast and way too accurate.

Too bad there is not something in between the two options, since playing without any contact updates can be a pain too. I especially miss the lines on the map telling me the direction of a sound the hydrophone man just picked. If there are tens of them (convoy), I usually have better things to do than constantly checking the compass degrees on the map. And I wouldn't mind the crew doing rough estimates of the target's range and bearing. Oh well...

[Paulski]

Guys, no offence but this thread isn't about hardcore 100% difficulty. I started this thread to convince the players that play with either auto targetting or weapons officer help, to make the step to manual targetting by doing it the easiest way possible.

Sure it's not 100% realistic, but it does feel better to sink a ship this way than the ways I did before. And sure, at some point I will try map contact updates off, but atm I'm fine with how I play it :) I now play on 83% realism, wich may not impress the hardcore simmers, but I am impressed with myself. I never expected I would turn the difficulty up this quickly as I did now ;)

But please, let's not make a realism discussion out of this :)

[Bernhard Bernard]

A few nooby questions:
1. What is the TDC and AOB?
2. What is the target recognition manual?
3. What is a torpedo?
4. What is a U-Boat?
5. What is "Great Britain"?

[Jimbuna]

Guys, no offence but this thread isn't about hardcore 100% difficulty. I started this thread to convince the players that play with either auto targetting or weapons officer help, to make the step to manual targetting by doing it the easiest way possible.

Sure it's not 100% realistic, but it does feel better to sink a ship this way than the ways I did before. And sure, at some point I will try map contact updates off, but atm I'm fine with how I play it :) I now play on 83% realism, wich may not impress the hardcore simmers, but I am impressed with myself. I never expected I would turn the difficulty up this quickly as I did now ;)

Precisely...everyone should play the game at the realism level they feel most comfortable with.

But please, let's not make a realism discussion out of this :)

Well, it would appear the poster after you is making every effort to ensure that.

[Bakkels]

Actually I use the same method as you Paulski. Only I try not to use the notebook at all. For example, I use the 3:15 rule to get a target's speed:
you mark the position of your target on the navmap, immediately start the chronometer, and after 3 minutes and 15 seconds mark the position again. The distance the target covered in meters (divided by 100 I believe) in that time, is the speed in knots.
AoB and distance I get the same way as you do.
And I like to manually put it all in the TDC. Don't know why, I just like actually turning all those pretty dials and buttons :DL

[Fish In The Water]

A few nooby questions:
1. What is the TDC and AOB?
2. What is the target recognition manual?
3. What is a torpedo?
4. What is a U-Boat?
5. What is "Great Britain"?

Easy there mate...

Why do your questions have to be so hard? :D :haha:

[Bernhard Bernard]

Well you know, it's difficult sometimes to command a sub without knowing all these difficult things. When I was in U-63 back in 1940, I didn't have to worry about nations or torpedoes and what-not. It was a bit like point-and-shoot and it worked!

[benitorios]

This. I could never stand the map contact updates, since they give perfect / almost perfect data in real time of the target. Target spotted: BOOM! Perfect updating GPS view on the map with exact range and course just few ruler lines away. It's the same reason for why I don't use the weapons officer, he is just way too fast and way too accurate.

Too bad there is not something in between the two options, since playing without any contact updates can be a pain too. I especially miss the lines on the map telling me the direction of a sound the hydrophone man just picked. If there are tens of them (convoy), I usually have better things to do than constantly checking the compass degrees on the map. And I wouldn't mind the crew doing rough estimates of the target's range and bearing. Oh well...


I've been using a mod called the Map update Mod for some time now, and I think it provides what you're looking for: basically, the contacts won't show on map above a certain zoom level, making it virtually impossible to plot a course, let alone calculate speed from the map alone. But they do show for low zoom levels, so you can see contact reports, planes, and ship sunk locations.
On the other hand, the mod preserves the sonar bearing lines on map, which makes it somewhat easier to have situational awareness when you have many sonar/hydrophone contacts all at once.

I remember I had to tweak a couple of things manually in the mod to make it to my liking, but in the end it provided exactly what i was looking for: some useful info on map but removing the perfect info on ship location. Hope that works for you as well.
I can look up the link to the mod if you want. It's somewhere in the downloads section.

[max-peck]

I'm using this too.
It's very good :yep:

[Olsin]

I guess it was inevitable...play around with this sim long enough and it's onjly a matter of time before you give manual targetting a crack.....
I've been happy with the arcade feel of sh3 but after reading a few posts i finally reached the "how hard can it be!" point and gave it a go.
I waited for a single contat which turned out to be a small merchant and lined myself up ahead of the merchant at a roughly 90 degree angle perpendicular to the merchants projected heading.

Opened the TDC and clicked the manual/auto tab to green..

I've played around with these controls before but never in connection with a contact. Anyway...a quick 30 seconds play around revealed that the "bearing" dial seemed to adjust the angle the torpedo left the boat and the "range" dial was the range to the contact.

Exit TDC and opened the map.

Using the plotting tool i measured the distance from the front of my boat straight out at 00 degrees to the projected path of the oncoming merchant which was 900 meters and also noted the merchants speed of 7 knots.

Exit map and opened TDC

Dialled the speed dial up to 7 and dialled the range dial up to 900 meters. I then adjusted the bearing dial until the green line showing my torpedo's path was straight out at 00 degrees from my boat....the pointer on the bearing dial was at 13 - which i presumed to mean 13 degrees - when the torpedo angle from the boat was 00 degrees.

Went to periscope and pressed "q" to open the torpedo door and waited until the middle of the merchant was showing at 13 degrees in the periscope. Also noted that the merchant was at just under 900 meters at that point.

Fired.

40 seconds later a direct hit midships. I hadn't used the AoB dial at all and can't remember now what it was set on..didn't think about checking the gyroangle either.....did i luck out and those dials were within parameters anyway or was that a valid approach to manual targetting?

I can't see how i could have done that though if i was in the thick of a convoy unless i purposly only targetted maybe one or two of the richest pickings and left it at that...The remainder of the time used for extraction and reallignement to catch the convoy further along it's course.

And what about zigzagging targets..how on earth do you get a solution on them..is it just about getting close enough so that their slow turning manouvers provides no protection?

[max-peck]

You can still treat it as a standard Fast-90 attack.

Why?

Because the ship is constant helming along a base course.

See pic

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/6308/ch1o.jpg


The ship sails along the green path as you watch it. But you can treat it as following the base course (in red).

The 3.15 rule still applies.

Mark your two points to get the speed.

http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/6964/ch2rx.jpg


This will be the average speed he is making along his base course.

And set your AOB as if the ship was travelling along the base course (red line)

Finally, a rule of thumb if you are short of time.

Once a ship has started constant helmig, it will make about two thirds of the speed it was making before.
I use this quick rule of thumb a lot and hit most of the time

Finally: if weather permits use magnetic pistols, as you may be hitting him at an angle, and an impact pistol may bounce off.

Good luck :up:

[Hottentot]

I can look up the link to the mod if you want. It's somewhere in the downloads section.

Thanks for the kind offer mate :salute:. There is no need for that, as I don't have SH3 installed at the moment. But once I give it a go again, I'll look this mod up myself. I should have known someone has already created something like this. :oops:

[Bakkels]

Finally, a rule of thumb if you are short of time.

Once a ship has started constant helmig, it will make about two thirds of the speed it was making before.
I use this quick rule of thumb a lot and hit most of the time



Hey thanks for this. I could never be bothered to do the calculation for a rule of thumb myself, but still I like todo the manual aiming. I just went with my gut feeling for the target's speed when zigzagging. This should increase my hit-ratio a bit :up:

[Paulski]

By the way, does anyone now if the TDC (when set on auto) takes into account the u-boot's speed when not stationary?