Adm. Woodward: Falklands undefendable

[TLAM Strike]

Interesting article from the commander of Operation Corporate. (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-2003263/Falkland-Islands-Britain-defend-English-Channel.html?ito=feeds-newsxml)

What are the opinions of those around here from both sides of the Atlantic? :hmmm:

[Gerald]

According, the article feels like it is missing, base on the island and its status .... and certainly there are things under the table,personally I do not think that the UK, have problems in any conflict, without being too informed of when their defense, :hmm2:

[Jimbuna]

Actually, there are more assetts there now than there have been for some years since the conflict.

I'm not saying we could relieve the island in force like we did in 82 but given a little warning (satellite intel) I should imagine an on-station nuke and similar reinforcements (Trafalgar/Astute Classes) could do a bit of damage.

A question...Is this hypothetical shift in US thinking in any way related to the Russians about to set up rigs off Cuba?

Is it possible they are looking for a bigger slice of the oil and gas cake they believe they may lose to the Russians?

[Oberon]

The Argie military hasn't exactly leapt on in bounds either. In fact I think they're going through their own budget crisis at the moment. Furthermore, it's a completely different style of government in Argentina right now, so the chances of any immediate conflict over the Falklands is miniscule.

Of course, if by some amazingly long shot the Argentinians did get onto the Falklands then getting them off could be problematic. :hmmm:

[nikimcbee]

The question is, does Britain have the stomach to defend it?

[Oberon]

The question is, does Britain have the stomach to defend it?

What? Son of the Iron Maiden. He'll defend it, even if he had to take forces out of Afghanistan to do it. I don't think much of Dave the chameleon but I do think that he would Thatcher the Falklands without a seconds indecision.

[nikimcbee]

What? Son of the Iron Maiden. He'll defend it, even if he had to take forces out of Afghanistan to do it. I don't think much of Dave the chameleon but I do think that he would Thatcher the Falklands without a seconds indecision.

Jus' checkin.:D

[Skybird]

Is this hypothetical shift in US thinking
Hypothetical...?

Are you still buying the fairy tale of special British-American relations in the present? It might feel like that in the crew ranks and interpersonal relations, but politically already Bush held you by your noses and lead you around in circles - and you did "Wuff!" when he said "Balk!" If you recall, several high ranking British commanders bitterly and very openly complained about that and the very one-sided nature of these special relations two or three years ago. The complaints continued through the ranks of commanding field officers after they returned from Basra - and Afghanistan as well.

And the big rewards and economic contracts Bush promised you for participating in Iraq (and the Spanish, and ther Poles, and others) - have they ever come true? ;)

Sorry Jim. You Brits are "useful idiots" for your American buddies these days. Or more politely: its nice to have you at the end of a long American line when America goes to war. Of course they tell you you are special. Else you would not follow them. ;)

WWII era is over, so is the cold war. Get real. And Obama has no sense for Europe anyway, it simply does not interest him much, and never has. His focus is elsewhere.

[Jimbuna]

The question is, does Britain have the stomach to defend it?

Jus' checkin.:D

Cheeky bugga!!

Of course we have the stomach :stare:

May not be as big as yours Jason (as I recall) :DL but defend it we would :yep:

[nikimcbee]

Just watch out, if you do get into s fight, don't let obama negotiate the peace. He may want Britain to go back to it's 1171 boarders.:o

[Jimbuna]

On a serious note.......I can't see the US putting our countries 'special relationship' in jeopardy over the Falklands/Malvinas.

[nikimcbee]

On a serious note.......I can't see the US putting our countries 'special relationship' in jeopardy over the Falklands/Malvinas.

I still love you(platonically):D Jim, regardless of what the bamster does.

[Jimbuna]

I still love you(platonically):D Jim, regardless of what the bamster does.

You too sweetheart :DL

:03:

[Jimbuna]

Hypothetical...?

Are you still buying the fairy tale of special British-American relations in the present? It might feel like that in the crew ranks and interpersonal relations, but politically already Bush held you by your noses and lead you around in circles - and you did "Wuff!" when he said "Balk!" If you recall, several high ranking British commanders bitterly and very openly complained about that and the very one-sided nature of these special relations two or three years ago. The complaints continued through the ranks of commanding field officers after they returned from Basra - and Afghanistan as well.

And the big rewards and economic contracts Bush promised you for participating in Iraq (and the Spanish, and ther Poles, and others) - have they ever come true? ;)

Sorry Jim. You Brits are "useful idiots" for your American buddies these days. Or more politely: its nice to have you at the end of a long American line when America goes to war. Of course they tell you you are special. Else you would not follow them. ;)

WWII era is over, so is the cold war. Get real. And Obama has no sense for Europe anyway, it simply does not interest him much, and never has. His focus is elsewhere.

My apologies but I somehow overlooked your post Sky.

There is a growing feeling in the UK that what you post may well be correct.

Myself....I simply hope that is not the case.

Only time will tell.

[TarJak]

Awwww, aint true love sweeet?:03:

[Jimbuna]

Awwww, aint true love sweeet?:03:

Only if your a 'giver' and not a 'taker' :DL

[TarJak]

:har: And which are you again?:06:

[Bakkels]

So is Argentina still set on one day having the Falklands back? Why for god's sake? 70% of it's inhabitants are of British descent, and there are hardly any resources on the island. To top it off, it rains there almost all the time! (Clearly that makes it a part of Britain beyond doubt :O:)

[Jimbuna]

Awwww, aint true love sweeet?:03:

LOL :DL

[Jimbuna]

So is Argentina still set on one day having the Falklands back? Why for god's sake? 70% of it's inhabitants are of British descent, and there are hardly any resources on the island. To top it off, it rains there almost all the time! (Clearly that makes it a part of Britain beyond doubt :O:)

Your missing one vital ingrediant....the possible wealth of gas and oil resources under the seabed in the area.

The Falklands could have a mega future with regard to energy resources.

[Bakkels]

Ah, didn't know that. That explains a lot of course.

[Tribesman]

Just watch out, if you do get into s fight, don't let obama negotiate the peace. He may want Britain to go back to it's 1171 boarders.
You mean he will insist England takes over most of France?

[TLAM Strike]

Your missing one vital ingrediant....the possible wealth of gas and oil resources under the seabed in the area.

The Falklands could have a mega future with regard to energy resources.
Which makes the US foreign policy make even less sense. Do we want to have to buy the oil down there from the next Argentine strongman to take power? :roll:

We are supposed to buy our oil from Islamic nations, therefore Brittan should have the islands! :03:

[Gerald]

I think the UK should invade France, to access the mend, Diecast Collection,Forget oil and gas, they have higher Priorities in some

[Onkel Neal]

Hypothetical...?

Are you still buying the fairy tale of special British-American relations in the present? It might feel like that in the crew ranks and interpersonal relations, but politically already Bush held you by your noses and lead you around in circles - and you did "Wuff!" when he said "Balk!" If you recall, several high ranking British commanders bitterly and very openly complained about that and the very one-sided nature of these special relations two or three years ago. The complaints continued through the ranks of commanding field officers after they returned from Basra - and Afghanistan as well.

And the big rewards and economic contracts Bush promised you for participating in Iraq (and the Spanish, and ther Poles, and others) - have they ever come true? ;)

Sorry Jim. You Brits are "useful idiots" for your American buddies these days. Or more politely: its nice to have you at the end of a long American line when America goes to war. Of course they tell you you are special. Else you would not follow them. ;)

WWII era is over, so is the cold war. Get real. And Obama has no sense for Europe anyway, it simply does not interest him much, and never has. His focus is elsewhere.

Wow, cannot disagree more. So wrong on every level. Just because allies support each other, does not mean one is leading the other by the nose :nope:

[Herr-Berbunch]

America *vck'd us over during the previous Falkland's conflict, and also British Honduras, now Belize. Doesn't matter how 'special' we are to them, their policy is don't interfere with South America.

Argentine government/forces/economy may be different nowadays but the fact is the vast majority of the population believe the islands to be theirs and would support their return. There is very little our few Tonados/troops down there could do, yes, the defences are vastly improved from 30 years ago but the Argentines know exactly what they didn't do right last time. And I don't believe we could use Cunaard ships and North Sea Ferries like last time.

The best time for them to invade would be the week prior to Xmas. Even without any prior engagements we'd have a bigger logistical nightmare than last time.

[TLAM Strike]

There is very little our few Tonados...
Its four Typhoons now, not Tornadoes. :03:

[Herr-Berbunch]

Its four Typhoons now, not Tornadoes. :03:

I slouch corrected.

And the plural of Tornado (aeroplane, not wind) has no e. :O:

[TLAM Strike]

I slouch corrected.

And the plural of Tornado (aeroplane, not wind) has no e. :O:

Blame spell check. :03:

[Tribesman]

America *vck'd us over during the previous Falkland's conflict
No, they helped you, they *vcked over the junta they had been supporting.
The only time they *cvvd you over was when you and france and israel decided to play silly buggers by attacking egypt

[Jimbuna]

Its four Typhoons now, not Tornadoes. :03:

This article is dated Sept 09 but would support you:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/22/332609/raf-typhoons-arrive-for-falkland-islands-mission.html

[Herr-Berbunch]

Its four Typhoons now, not Tornadoes. :03:

This article is dated Sept 09 but would support you:

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2009/09/22/332609/raf-typhoons-arrive-for-falkland-islands-mission.html

Hey if TLAM gives any facts and figure I take it as gospel, spelling aside. :D

[Jimbuna]

The Phantoms that replaced the Harriers were affectionally known as Faith, Hope and Charity.

1435 Flight: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No._1435_Flight_RAF

[Oberon]

Nice little link with another island war there Jim, I like it.

To be fair though, the US didn't vck us over in the Falklands war, in fact they were giving us intel throughout it all IIRC as well as letting us use the Ascension Island base (we own the island but they run the airbase) and Sidewinder missile restocks. They had to stay neutral though for obvious reasons, it's a political mess and the US doesn't want to tie itself to that. I don't blame them, after all we didn't send forces to aid in the Bay of Pigs incident or the Panama crisis.

Heck, we had support from a lot of nations, France gave us Mirages and Etendards to train against and the details of their Exocet missiles, Chile gave us intel support (presumably because they knew that a strong Argentina was a threat to them), and New Zealand took over some of our deployment roles in the Indian Ocean to free up warships to send to the Falklands.

So, we may have fought militarily quite alone, we had the support of a few nations which helped things along in the background.

[nikimcbee]

So have any of you "UKers" been to the Falklands?

[Marcantilan]

Well, even that most Argentinians (including myself) believe that Argentina has right over the islands, I do not think anyone in here will support a military action.

Woodward´s just lobbying for the Royal Navy.

And, in any case, Argentina military is not in a position to invade the islands (for example, lack of Landing Ships, lack of any modern fighter, so on, so on, so on, so on, so on and so on)

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Wow, cannot disagree more. So wrong on every level. Just because allies support each other, does not mean one is leading the other by the nose :nope:
Whatever is truth is not important. What is really important is what it looks like.

If UK was just "supporting ally" then it looked heck much like dog doing whatever Master says to do. *woof, woof!*

[Oberon]

Well, even that most Argentinians (including myself) believe that Argentina has right over the islands, I do not think anyone in here will support a military action.

Woodward´s just lobbying for the Royal Navy.

And, in any case, Argentina military is not in a position to invade the islands (for example, lack of Landing Ships, lack of any modern fighter, so on, so on, so on, so on, so on and so on)

A bit like Gibraltar too, most if not all Spaniards want it back but they wouldn't invade it. :yep: One day we probably will have another referendum on the Falklands, but not anytime soon I'd wager, particularly if there is a lot of oil under there.

[Gerald]

http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/5172/020508arabelgrano1.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/840/020508arabelgrano1.jpg/)
Belgrano!

http://img221.imageshack.us/img221/672/a4qarmadaargentina08jpg.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/221/a4qarmadaargentina08jpg.jpg/)





http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8273/arfaafingerc402unknown.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/683/arfaafingerc402unknown.jpg/)

[Onkel Neal]

Whatever is truth is not important. What is really important is what it looks like.

If UK was just "supporting ally" then it looked heck much like dog doing whatever Master says to do. *woof, woof!*


And what it "looks like" is laregly based on the bias of the "looker". It may have looked like that to those who are eager to cast dispersion on the UK, but not to all. I guess when the tire repair truck shows up on the freeway to assist a motorist, it "looks like" he is subordinate to the motorist.

[Herr-Berbunch]

Well, even that most Argentinians (including myself) believe that Argentina has right over the islands, I do not think anyone in here will support a military action.

Woodward´s just lobbying for the Royal Navy.

And, in any case, Argentina military is not in a position to invade the islands (for example, lack of Landing Ships, lack of any modern fighter, so on, so on, so on, so on, so on and so on)


How's the translation of your ASW book going?

[Gerald]

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/7151/768pxfalklandislandstop.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/5/768pxfalklandislandstop.jpg/)

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3923/800pxflagofthefalklandi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/800pxflagofthefalklandi.jpg/)

The South American partner organization UNASUR have unanimously Argentine support for its position and to find a peaceful solution to the conflict. The archipelago has been designated as the United Nations list of Non-Self-Governing and processed by the United Nations Special Committee on decolonization to establish a definitive solution. In February 2010, agreed by 33 countries at the summit of Latin American and Caribbean states to support "Argentina's legitimate right" to the islands and condemn the ongoing oil exploration. Argentina subsequently asked, in February 2010, UN Secretary General Ban Ki-moon to call the UK to call for control of the Falkland Islands and help stop the "continuing unilateral acts" from the British side. In June 2010 there was the question again in the UN committee on decolonization. Argentina's delegation included on this occasion also the islanders and the families of those who supported Argentina's policy in this regard. The Committee called on both parties (Argentina and Britain) to resume bilateral negotiations on the islands' final status.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Falkland_Islands

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

And what it "looks like" is laregly based on the bias of the "looker".
I agree with you on this (except that I would not use world "largely"). However I have to point out that this applies to your point of view aswell.

It may have looked like that to those who are eager to cast dispersion on the UK, but not to all.
Who are those "eager to cast dispersion on UK" and what you mean with that?

I guess when the tire repair truck shows up on the freeway to assist a motorist, it "looks like" he is subordinate to the motorist.
Not in my opinion but I understand what you mean with this.

[nikimcbee]

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3923/800pxflagofthefalklandi.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/824/800pxflagofthefalklandi.jpg/)

Sheep? New Wales?

[Oberon]

Well, there are more sheep than people on the Falklands I believe... :hmmm:

[Marcantilan]

How's the translation of your ASW book going?

Sadly, not very fast...

Thanks for asking!

Regards,

[Oberon]

Oh, and to give a counter of Vendors Argentinian kit, as is fair:

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/img/upload/img_400/fkd_000156.jpg

http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/img/upload/img_400/sfpu_n_1084_b_025.jpg

http://www.secondtononemodels.com/userimages/falklands-yomp-bbc.jpg

[Gerald]

Obie,there were old pictures, and nothing else, ;)

[Oberon]

Obie,there were old pictures, and nothing else, ;)

I know mate, and I don't take sides in this either, it was a very long time ago, before I was even born. I just wanted to keep things balanced, of course. :yep:

[Gerald]

I know mate, and I don't take sides in this either, it was a very long time ago, before I was even born. I just wanted to keep things balanced, of course. :yep: Right, good thinking :DL

[Lord Justice]

I know mate, and I don't take sides in this either Hmm.... :hmmm:

[Oberon]

Hmm.... :hmmm:

:hmmm:

Well...not as much as others. I'm British, I support the British Armed Forces and I believe that the Falklands are British. However, I also have a great respect for the Argentinian armed forces, the Argentinian lives lost in the war, the skill of the Argentinian A-4 pilots in Bomb Alley and the skill of the San Luis who eluded us for the war.

If the Falkland islanders voted to join Argentina I would fully support that. :salute:

Basically put, I'm not going to get into a flame war over it. That's what I'm trying to say. :yep:

[TLAM Strike]

In reply to Vendor and Oberon:
A C-130 and VC-10 at Mt. Pleasant + an F-4 Phantom "Gate Guard":
http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/2329/phantomp.jpg
The 16 Aircraft Shelters at Mt Pleasant:
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/2592/haslb.jpg
Argintine Submarine Base at Mar del Plata (TR-1700 and Type 209 classes)
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/2240/subsds.jpg
Better views of the naval base showing some Frigates:
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/4812/navalbase.jpg
http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/345/navalbase2.jpg

[Jimbuna]

Nice little link with another island war there Jim, I like it.


Yeah, the story of Faith, Hope and Charity is rather quaint...even during times of adversity.