US Army gives away the Beret

[Feuer Frei!]

The US Army is abandoning the beret, after a failed 10-year experiment. The black beret, which proved deeply unpopular with American soldiers, will be replaced by a patrol cap for everyday wear, US Army spokesman Colonel Tom Collins said Monday.
The move came after outgoing Army chief of staff, General Martin Dempsey, asked the army's sergeant major "to go out and talk to soldiers across the force and see what was on their minds," Collins told AFP.
"One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said.
The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said.
"It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said.
One soldier put it more bluntly.
"I hate wearing a wet sock on my head," Chief Warrant Officer Mark Vino, at Joint Base Lewis-McChord in Washington state, told the Army Times. "Plus it makes head/skin break out."
Before 2001, the black beret was associated with the elite Rangers special operations forces. Many Rangers resented the idea that the hat they had earned the right to wear had been assigned to the entire force.
The uniform change applies to 1.32 million soldiers -- including 566,473 active duty troops -- and goes into effect immediately. The new headwear comes with a lower price: a beret costs $11.90 while a patrol cap is only $6.50.
The decision does not affect units that have long worn berets as a mark of distinction, including the Rangers' black beret, Army special forces' green beret and Airborne's maroon version.
As part of the change, soldiers will have the option of having their name tags, rank and badges sewn on to their uniforms.
There also will be a new look for Army soldiers working at the Defense Department's headquarters at the Pentagon, with camouflage to be replaced with the more business-like dress uniform, Collins said.
"For soldiers serving in the Pentagon, we will transition to the dress uniform," starting in July, he said.
In the aftermath of the attacks of September 11, 2001, all the armed services started wearing combat uniforms in the Pentagon, to underscore the country's war-footing.
But Defense Secretary Robert Gates last year had his staff drop the combat uniforms, and some other offices in the Pentagon have returned to the dress uniform.
"Our perspective is that this is the corporate part of the Army," said Sergeant Major of the Army, Raymond Chandler, quoted on the US Army's website.


SOURCE (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110613/pl_afp/usmilitaryuniform)

[Ducimus]

Wow, this smacks of Air Force style shennanigans. I always thought it was stupid the Army went to the black beret. Makes them look like an army of some 2nd or 3rd world nation in my opinion.

Now I have never worn a beret, but this....
"One of the things that soldiers consistently brought up was the desire to wear the patrol cap as part of their duty uniform," he said.
The beret will still be part of the Army's dress uniform, but will no longer be worn in the field as soldiers complained that it was impractical, he said.
"It does not have a visor and doesn't shield the sun, doesn't absorb sweat well," Collins said. One soldier put it more bluntly. "I hate wearing a wet sock on my head,"

That says it all right there. It's freaking stupid. And if you think back.... even before the 2001 uniform change, back when only Rangers, airborne, and SF had berets they earned, even they didn't wear them in the field. Because apparently It's a dress item, not a field/utility item. So some Army general decides to make it a field item? Wow... that IS stupid. That is so stupid, it is USAF stupid!


Before 2001, the black beret was associated with the elite Rangers special operations forces. Many Rangers resented the idea that the hat they had earned the right to wear had been assigned to the entire force.

I did earn the privledge to wear a certain hat, so i can understand this. I've always felt a bit of sympathy (or is that empathy) to this. If the hat i had earned privledge to wear was given out to the entire branch, id be royally pissed off.

[Platapus]

God, I remember the uniform debacle in the Air Force. He-who-shall-not-be-named and his stupid bus driver/airline pilot service dress.

I think that was the closest I ever experienced of a wide spread mutiny. So many troops, some at very high levels, simply refused to buy the new uniform and when hwsnbn rotated out of the Chief of Staff position, you could almost see the trash cans bulging.

It was a dark time. It is fortunate that the youngerlings in the AF were spared.

[Torplexed]

I'm just glad they dumped that annoying "Army of One" advertising campaign.

http://forums.arresteddevelopmentclan.com/download/file.php?id=409

[FIREWALL]

Didn't the Navy have this problem too.

[TLAM Strike]

Didn't the Navy have this problem too. What that their uniforms made sailors look like convicts on work release? :hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

Let the military stay out of the uniform business.

Let Sachs 5th. ave. take care of it. :haha:

[Stealhead]

God, I remember the uniform debacle in the Air Force. He-who-shall-not-be-named and his stupid bus driver/airline pilot service dress.

I think that was the closest I ever experienced of a wide spread mutiny. So many troops, some at very high levels, simply refused to buy the new uniform and when hwsnbn rotated out of the Chief of Staff position, you could almost see the trash cans bulging.

It was a dark time. It is fortunate that the youngerlings in the AF were spared.

What AF uniform debacle? Are you referring to when they did that stupid name tape thing back in 93' or so and they changed back to the regualr name tapes?(I was on the tail end of that) or you referring to the them getting rid of the tan uniforms back in the day(before my time) or the change over to BDUs from the old "pickle" suits(again before my time) or the that ugly pattern that looks like a love child between Tiger Stripe and a random Russian pattern that they currently use that many hate?(after my time)

P.S. active and former Rangers all demanded that they not use the color black but no one listened I can agree with the beret thing in the US military it is elite only except for USAF SPs which is stupid the Pararescue are elite forces in the USAF and they have a maroon beret so why do all the cops a silly dark blue one?

I think the Army did the Beret thing to lure people in I once saw a National Guard Private in his BDUs wearing the regular Army beret inside a store I walked over to him and said "So they don't have that regulation about taking your cover off when inside anymore?" He looked really embarrassed I guess he learned that day that you never know who is going to see you walking around in uniform improperly he was probably looking to get some chicks and Im sure he'd have claimed to be a Ranger as well most civies do not know that a Ranger also has the ranger tab.

[Ducimus]

What AF uniform debacle? Are you referring to when they did that stupid name tape thing back in 93' or so and they changed back to the regualr name tapes?(


Yeah that. He who's name we should not utter is McPeak. I enlisted in 92, so i can bear witness to the entire debacle, in detail.

I wont get into the airliner uniform.. .err i mean service dress, but i'll illustrate the BDU debacle in a little better detail.


In the beginning, there was standard BDU's with name tapes, and assorted boy scout like badges plastered everywhere. This i shall call uniform Iteration number 1:

Then someone got the bright idea that trimming all that down to just a crew patch, would save on uniform costs. So a velco square was sewn directly above the left breast pocket upon which to place your crew patch. This i shall call uniform iteration number 2: (EDIT: FYI, swapping crew patch's out with a buddy was great fun in tech school)

Then the officers went unto the powers that be and said, "This sucks! We are not getting saluted because nobody can tell our rank! At approximately the same time, some office jockeys that fly a desk whined that they couldn't put their pens into the pen pocket without it crimping on the crew patch. Enter Uniform iteration number 3. Rank is now again, sewn on the sleeves, and the crew patch is placed one half inch above the left breast pocket.

Now picture if you will, a time period where because nothing has offically been phased out yet, or rather the phase out date hasn't happened yet, we now have THREE different versions of the *COUGH* ... "uniform".

Old style BDU's with tapes
Crew patch by itself
Crew patch 1/2 inch above pocket with rank.


By this time, the "uniform savings" originally envisioned had became ahhh... moot?

Some time later, after McPeak left his position, the next AF chief of staff came in, said, "enough of this happy horses**t" and we all went back to the orignal BDU's with name tapes. The airliner service uniform stayed, and we were all left wondering, "WTF was that all about anyway?!"

edit:
ALl that said, some good did come out of the uniform changes. The changes to senior NCO chevron's i thought was the best idea of the whole time period. (IE instead of a chief master sgt having 2 rooftops and 6 rockers, he now has 3 rooftops and 5 rockers.)

[August]

It's almost like the Army, but to some extent the rest of the services as well, goes out of it's way to create the dorkiest looking uniforms possible.

I mean in WW2 we had this:

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRihNjrznP0CLPVQzK-XuCK7ezAAImgP7t5E9e--EERdftDffvmSw&t=1

And we have since changed it to this:

http://usarmy.vo.llnwd.net/e2/-images/2008/08/21/21202/size0-army.mil-2008-08-26-125201.jpg

It's just sad... :nope:

[TLAM Strike]

Now picture if you will, a time period where because nothing has offically been phased out yet, or rather the phase out date hasn't happened yet, we now have THREE different versions of the *COUGH* ... "uniform".

In other words *THIS* happened in real life? :haha:
http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/2645/generationshd0817.jpg
Riker:You guys got the memo about the new uniforms right?
Picard: Screw that, I wear what I want Number One!

[Platapus]

It's almost like the Army, but to some extent the rest of the services as well, goes out of it's way to create the dorkiest looking uniforms possible.




The Army does like to put stuff on the uniform. :yep:

[August]

The Army does like to put stuff on the uniform. :yep:

It's not so much the stuff on the uniform (although I do think they should limit ribbons to three rows) but the design of the uniform itself. It's gone from a very martial and utilitarian design that integrated with the combat uniform, to a civilian JC Penny business man look to now what amounts to a door mans outfit. What's next, a clown suit?

If the dark cloud that is the end of DADT has a silver lining it is that maybe, just maybe, the troops will finally get a really sharp looking dress uniform. A little "Queer Eye for the Army Guy" as it were. :DL

In that light it is also interesting to note that both the Navy and the Marine Corps have always had good looking dress uniform. :hmmm:

[TLAM Strike]

(although I do think they should limit ribbons to three rows)

Yea its getting out of control:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2093/pet1654283c.jpg
Soon our troops will be looking like this:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4194/marshalgeorgyzhukov.jpg

[Madox58]

I earned my AirBorne Mushroom the honest way.
I also trained with SF and Rangers and did the goofy Guy thing as they trained.
I was APPALLED when the whole Army went to the Black MushRoom!
I felt, and still feel,
it was a slap in the face to many true Heros that paid a price none of the
regular Army Units could ever stand up to.
I only hope that the change requires that all Service Persons that DID NOT earn a Ranger Patch can NOT wear a Black Beret ever again!

Give respect where respect is due!

[the_tyrant]

Yea its getting out of control:
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2093/pet1654283c.jpg
Soon our troops will be looking like this:
http://img15.imageshack.us/img15/4194/marshalgeorgyzhukov.jpg

makeshift chainmail!http://www.russia-ic.com/img/people/jukov_111.jpg

[August]

I earned my AirBorne Mushroom the honest way.
I also trained with SF and Rangers and did the goofy Guy thing as they trained.
I was APPALLED when the whole Army went to the Black MushRoom!
I felt, and still feel,
it was a slap in the face to many true Heros that paid a price none of the
regular Army Units could ever stand up to.
I only hope that the change requires that all Service Persons that DID NOT earn a Ranger Patch can NOT wear a Black Beret ever again!

Give respect where respect is due!

Unfortunately no. The black beret remains part of the new Class A Dress Blue uniform. The Rangers will keep their tan ones I guess. Not that I imagine they'd want the black one back either.

So you're a Paratrooper Privateer?

[Lord Justice]

Give respect where respect is due!Here here, I too was in disgust when my regiment was amalgamated into 16th air assault, we always had our own individuality. ex 2para then 4para. :salute:

[August]

As much as I like to tease them about being Dopes on a Rope :D the truth of the matter is that Air Assault is still Airborne just as much as their predecessors in the Glider Infantry earned their place among the Parachute Infantry Regiments in the WW2 Airborne Divisions.

[Madox58]

So you're a Paratrooper Privateer?

Yes Mate, I am a ParaTrooper.
I left the service in the mid '80's.
But once a ParaTropper?
ALLWAYS a ParaTrooper!
It's that one step away from the rest of ManKind that makes us what We are.
It's the training and resolve to complete a mission no matter what that sets us apart.
My life was changed in a way that I can not describe once I became AirBorne!
I am Blood Winged! I Am AirBorne!
:yeah:

[August]

So there are three of us Paratroopers on the board then? Excellent! That's enough for a fire team!

[Madox58]

Last I remember?
A Fire Team was 4 Troopers.
Each are more devistating then any regular Army Unit due to training and dedication.
They will complete any given Mission even if only one remains alive!
AirBorne Units from the U.S.A. are one of the top feared Forces in the World today for a very good reason.

[August]

Last I remember?
A Fire Team was 4 Troopers.
Each are more devistating then any regular Army Unit due to training and dedication.
They will complete any given Mission even if only one remains alive!
AirBorne Units from the U.S.A. are one of the top feared Forces in the World today for a very good reason.


Maybe you're right. It's been a long time.

Hey remember this?

The Rule of the LGOPs


After the demise of the best Airborne plan, a most terrifying effect occurs on the battlefield. This effect is known as the rule of the LGOPs. This is, in its purest form, small groups of pissed-off 19 year old Paratroopers. They are well-trained, armed to the teeth and lack serious adult supervision. They collectively remember the Commander's intent as "March to the sound of the guns and kill anyone who is not dressed like you..." or something like that. Happily they go about the day's work.....

[Stealhead]

The Coast Guard for some reason liked the USAF blues so much that they went to them.:hmmm:

I recall back in 97' for the USAF 50th they allowed us to wear for a whole week any old USAF uniforms so long as they had our name tapes and correct (for that time period) ranks that was pretty cool some guys wore old WWII Air Corps/AAF stuff but many worn the old Tans that they got rid of in 68 or so.

The Tans where so popular afterwords that they even listed it on USAF uniforms surveys later in the lists of "desired" uniforms one of them was asking if you would like to see a return of the tan dress uniform and many people said yes according to the results that they printed out later but so far they have never gone back to them.

I think it has to do with politics though.I recall when before they went to the current USAF emblem (which I think is horrid) they did many surveys one that they e-mailed to every AF members .mil address asking questions about how they felt about the old emblem and the new one.Many of the questions where very vague in nature which was obviously done so that the new emblem would win out. Most guys liked the old emblem and wanted to see a new design of similar style because the new emblem in no way had esprit de corps of the old days of WWII AAF which the old emblem did.In my shop most everyone disliked the new emblem.I was in another shop across base and here is this NCO telling his troops that they like the emblem that is how it goes they already decided and they make you think you have a choice in things that represent your branch of service to the public same goes for the uniforms it just turned out that the brass at my shop was more liberal on that subject.

[August]

The Coast Guard for some reason liked the USAF blues so much that they went to them.:hmmm:

I recall back in 97' for the USAF 50th they allowed us to wear for a whole week any old USAF uniforms so long as they had our name tapes and correct (for that time period) ranks that was pretty cool some guys wore old WWII Air Corps/AAF stuff but many worn the old Tans that they got rid of in 68 or so.

The Tans where so popular afterwords that they even listed it on USAF uniforms surveys later in the lists of "desired" uniforms one of them was asking if you would like to see a return of the tan dress uniform and many people said yes according to the results that they printed out later but so far they have never gone back to them.

I think it has to do with politics though.I recall when before they went to the current USAF emblem (which I think is horrid) they did many surveys one that they e-mailed to every AF members .mil address asking questions about how they felt about the old emblem and the new one.Many of the questions where very vague in nature which was obviously done so that the new emblem would win out. Most guys liked the old emblem and wanted to see a new design of similar style because the new emblem in no way had esprit de corps of the old days of WWII AAF which the old emblem did.In my shop most everyone disliked the new emblem.I was in another shop across base and here is this NCO telling his troops that they like the emblem that is how it goes they already decided and they make you think you have a choice in things that represent your branch of service to the public same goes for the uniforms it just turned out that the brass at my shop was more liberal on that subject.

Yeah the army did the same thing a few years ago, asking the troops what they wanted to see in a new class A uniform.

Overwhelmingly they voted for the chocolate brown WW2 version and the Class B khakis that went out of service in the late 1970's. The army came back and dismissed the results saying that khaki was impossible to reliably match and the chocolates were too hot for the summer and that they would instead go with a vomit green shirt and keep the rest of the bus drivers uniform.

I don't understand why did they even bothered asking. :shifty:

[Madox58]

I remember the 'Little Group of ParaTroopers' rule very well!
:haha:

It was drummed into my head just below the main rule.
The Mission comes first and must be completed even if you are the only remaining Trooper!
That was how it went in the early '80's anyway.
I enlisted April 1st 1980 at 24 years old.
I was called 'Old Man'.
:har:

So you, Hanomag, and myself are ParaTroopers that I know of for sure.
I met Hanomag at Neal's at the 2008 SubSim meet.

And what I remember of a fireteam was 3 Troopers in the shape of an arrow head with a guideing fireteam leader as the shaft of that arrow head.
That fireteam leader (at least in my old Unit) would never step ahead of the other 3 Troopers for fear of Friendly Fire.
Not cause we were bad shots, but mostly cause he knew we would take him out.
I actually got wrote up a few times dureing War Games for 'killing' that Richard!
:03:

[August]

So you, Hanomag, and myself are ParaTroopers that I know of for sure

4Para too as our British contingent.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Uh oh boys, I think we'd better keep these 4 under careful watch, there's no telling what one paratrooper might do, let alone 4 of them together :shifty:









(also thank you all for your service :D)

[Snestorm]

When does the USN get back their dungarees and white hats?
Now they look more like janitors for a baseball team than sailors.

And dress shoes?
I guess cheap and glossy plastic is cheaper than real leather.
Those guys must have some stinky feet.

[TLAM Strike]

When does the USN get back their dungarees and white hats?
Now they look more like janitors for a baseball team than sailors.

And dress shoes?
I guess cheap and glossy plastic is cheaper than real leather.
Those guys must have some stinky feet.
My best friend who was a CTR says they looked more like convicts than sailors in what he had to wear.

It gets stupider...

When he manned the rails coming in to Norfolk, they made him where a blue construction helmet. :doh: I had to rip on him for that saying he must be sailing for the UN Navy and not the US Navy. :haha:

But they are not going back to dungarees and white hats, they are going for blue or gray cammo BDU now. :03:

[Ducimus]

Outside of units like SeaBee's, ive always wondered why the Navy had to have a camo uniform at all. I remember back in 93 or 94 i was taking a few classes at the Naval construction training center in gulfport, and i did see some dunguree's, but im guessing they were fresh out of boot. At some point in their training they stopped wearing them. I have to say though, watching a platoon or whatever the navy calls a unit formation march was funny. Bell bottoms dangling in the breeze everywhere.

[Platapus]

Have you seen the new digital cammies for the Air Force

They are blue. :doh:

How many times does an Air Force member need to blend in with the sky? :hmmm:

You can't see me. I am up here in the sky!

[Madox58]

I loved the Khakis Uniform myself.
We still used them in the early '80's and they just kicked arse!
Highly polished Jump Boots with the 2 inch soles and all those pretty braids dripping off the shoulders added to the killer Maroon Beret tilted at just the right angle?

OHHH! The hours needed to get that beret formed just right!
And the work needed to get those jump boots formed and polished to perfection!
:haha:

Also, 4para,
I did some training over there.
Do they still use those barrage balloons as a jump platform?

Also jumped with the Egyptian AirBorne.
THAT was a trip!!
I still have my Wings from that jump.
http://i108.photobucket.com/albums/n12/privateer_2006/egyptian_wings.jpg

[MH]

OHHH! The hours needed to get that beret formed just right!



All armies are similar i guess.:haha:

[Madox58]

All armies are similar i guess.:haha:

It's that 'I want to look my best' thing.
:up:
After months of very hard training?
We all want to portray ourselfs in the very best of light.
A killer Uniform does wonders to boost that feeling of pride and self worth when you go home.

Being from a small town I remember the first time I went home on my first leave.
As I tried to enter my old hang out, several Guys were blocking the door.
This place was not for the faint of heart by any stretch of the imagination!
It was the place only the baddest of the bad would go to.
I had my Khakis on. Bloused, ribboned and with my Maroon Beret.
One of the Guys said "Lookout! It's a Special Forces Guy!"
And pulled his friend out of the door.
I turned around as I stepped aside, wondering who was behind me!
I don't think I ever felt prouder as I explained I was only a ParaTrooper
home for a few days.
(Of course being the center of attention to all the fine Females that nite was worth 6 months of training! :03:)

[MH]

We used to shave(lol) our berets then press them under the bed for around a week.
In IDF we rarely put berets on our heads but it has to go neatly on the shoulder since it costs lots of suffering to get it.

[Madox58]

I recall wetting the new 'mushroom' hat,
then standing in the Sun for hours as it dried.
All the while shapeing it to get that 'just right' look.
Once dried and shaped?
We would shave it as you mention.
And if you made a 'oops!' during shaveing?
You started all over again!

2 things were paramount for us ParaTroopers.
A finely crafted Beret that We WOULD fight over.
And those custom Boots!
Only new Troopers had stock soles on thier boots.
After a few days in the Company?
You sent them out for the 2 inch soles.
They were a bit heavier but kept you up out of the mud saveing your feet alot.

[MH]

You sent them out for the 2 inch soles.
They were a bit heavier but kept you up out of the mud saveing your feet alot.


2 inch soles?
Light infantry leather boots for me-preferably softened worn out a bit.
2 inch soles sounds like something for armored unit. :D

[Madox58]

And did you take those boots into the shower and get them good and soaked?
That would break them in real quick.
We were actually required to do that in basic training the very first day.
And I still do that with all my work boots to this day!

2 inch soles on a pair of jump boots just have a look that says "BAD"!
:haha:

And to be honest?
We never used them in the field if we could avoid it!
:03:

[MH]

We used gun oil and boot paste for that.
In IDF generally there is no such a thing as non field boots.
There is 'A' uniform which is almost the same as field one-plain khaki.

[em2nought]

One of the stupid things about being in the Navy was having an entire sea bag full of required uniforms. Should have really only needed dungarees and coveralls. Could have used the space to help to have something resembling a "life". One more reason to "get out".

Army should have boonie hats with the places they go, at least the sun would be shaded (although ripstop doesn't have much SPF from what I can tell). Glad I never had to wear a nazi looking helmet either, even if it saves lives(which is a dubious claim since maybe if more lives were lost while playing war, less stupid actions would be taken by powers that be)

[Stealhead]

Have you seen the new digital cammies for the Air Force

They are blue. :doh:

How many times does an Air Force member need to blend in with the sky? :hmmm:

You can't see me. I am up here in the sky!

Uh you are thinking of the new US Navy BDU not the USAF BDU

new USAF: http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?76743-*REQUEST*-New-Air-Force-Camouflage-Pics

new US Navy last section of page:http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/fractal-creep-new-digitized-camo-uniforms-for-usaf-usn-jordan-02045/

So it is "you cant see me I am the sea!!"

[Platapus]

:hmmm: I was on an Air Force base when I saw them and it did not look like a squidly. I could be wrong. The Navy has been lurking around all sorts of bases in the last few years. :D

[Stealhead]

They must have been Navy troops the USAF just made the Tiger Stripe love child pattern as the only official "Work" uniform just in 2011 been around since 2006 though(I missed it by one year thank god I think the pattern is odd).I don't see why they'd change to a different pattern less than a year after making one official the brass that make these decisions are a bit stupid but they are not that stupid.Also I have heard nothing from friends that are still on active duty in the USAF about any sort of blue pattern.

The USMC started the trend of the "digital" patterns they got the idea from the Canadian Military CADPAT(both came out at around the same time but the Canadians had been developing theirs longer and Im sure some Marine got the idea) then the Army was next with theirs then the AF and the Navy was last.Some of the patterns are questionable.You will also see US troops wearing this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MultiCam-trans.jpg I saw some guys wearing this at the Airport a few months back turns out that some special ops units wear it as well as the 173rd Airborne and other Airborne units and also Rangers.

The ergonomics of the uniforms has been vastly improved over the old "BDUs" mainly in the layout of pockets they also gave up on the old buttons and use heavy gauge zippers or velcro which are much more practical the front breast pockets they slanted which is how they where during Vietnam they made them straight to line up better with name tapes but being straight you can not put anything in them if you have a ruck sack straps going over your shoulders the slanted pockets don't have this issue.The USAF "ABU" has not been very popular some of its pockets are rather useless and the material is said to be too heavy in hotter climates and the pattern has been questioned by many airmen same goes for the Army ACU it was rated as poor in certain types of terrain and barley effective in Afghanistan by many troops.

As you can see even when they get the good idea to make a more useful combat/working uniform they still at times focus too much on looks.I think that the "combat uniform" should be functionality only you can get your "looks" from the dress uniforms.When I was in the USAF we only wore the BDU pants and the under shirt and hung up the blouse in a locker at shop and wore either blue or OD green coveralls if you where lucky youd traded some of the blue coveralls for some tanker coveralls from "Old Iron Sides" tankers they liked the lighter weight blue ones and we liked their heavier more durable tanker coveralls the brass is not on flight lines very often so no one was able to get at us for not wearing a proper AF coverall and it was about wearing the most practical stuff not looking cool.

Also post 92' 93' many bases are used by multiple branches they combined the training commands to all be at the same base for the same job so you cant assume just because it is an Air Force Base that every person you see on the base is an airman.For example Fort Lenard Wood is where they train most every form of heavy or specialty vehicle operator for every branch.All DOD working dog technical training is done at Lackland AFB those are just a few examples.That does not consider troops just stopping over.Also many foreign troops wear bluish patterns and will find a handful of Gulf State air force members training at many bases.

It is funny because in the old day at least BDU wise every branch had the same uniform now I suppose it is trendy to market your self and be different when really it does make sense to use the same thing when your doing the same thing.That was the idea that McNamara had and to some extent it is a sound practice when gear is doing the same job from one branch to another it should be universal McNamara just took the concept to the extreme and thought every thing should be universal when sometimes this does not work.They are spending millions of dollars on all these different uniforms money that could be better used some place else.

Hey at least we dont have integrated reflector strips like the new Australian Navy uniform does. http://www.navy.gov.au/File:New_navy_uniform1.jpg
Are they serious?:har: The guys face looks like that because he hears the bullets snapping past him.

Might as well just wear a bulls eye.

O.K. I did some searching and found some airmans blog there was a test version of the current "ABU" that did have a much more blue tone to it but the testers hated it so they
dropped it went with the current pattern maybe you saw someone with that test pattern they normally make the SPs at the gate wear new crap like that. This was the test pattern that they dropped: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_t7cpKso2WZ8/R2vyhtxktPI/AAAAAAAAAeg/BMHoKAfStoo/s1600-h/New%2520USAF%2520uniform.jpg this would have been way back in 2007 though if your visit was around that time period it probably was the test pattern that you saw.A way to tell Navy(and Marines) from others is they roll up their sleeves showing the inside of the fabric the Army and Air Force do not also Navy and Marines wear pointed field hats Army and AF do not.

[TLAM Strike]

As bad as our uniforms are just be glad you are not these guys...

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6974/article1215309068a62220.jpg
^Troops of the Elite Iranian Revolutionary Puffy Hat Brigade. :haha:


http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3994/naay357capjoug200906151.jpg
^The Iranian Munchkin Soldier Regiment? :doh:

[Madox58]

http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/3994/naay357capjoug200906151.jpg


Are you sure this is not Charle's Oompa-Loompas Brigade?

[Stealhead]

I recall some years back in 96, or so they where showing the news on AFN during lunch at my the shop and they where showing some clips of Saddam "victory parade" to celebrate "winning" in 1991.In one clip they showed what I later learned where Fedayeen Saddam they where wearing this Ninja looking garb and someone says,"****in A it looks like Snake Eyes has defected.":har: (Snake Eyes is a GI Joe hero if you did not know)

They seemed to wear a Darth Vaderish helmet in combat dont believe me?



http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/donkeyyakov/rc55s8.jpg

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/donkeyyakov/iraqfed9.jpg

http://i1132.photobucket.com/albums/m567/donkeyyakov/angrysolider.jpg

[Ducimus]

The ergonomics of the uniforms has been vastly improved over the old "BDUs" mainly in the layout of pockets they also gave up on the old buttons and use heavy gauge zippers or velcro which are much more practical

I don't think that's a great idea. Velcro wears out, and is loud if noise is of concern. Buttons never wear out, and it doesn't take much to sew a new button on if you loose one (which rarely ever happened).


the front breast pockets they slanted which is how they where during Vietnam they made them straight to line up better with name tapes but being straight you can not put anything in them if you have a ruck sack straps going over your shoulders the slanted pockets don't have this issue.

Ok, that actually makes sense. Of course, I imagine this is why they reverted back to straight pockets? We can't EVER have anything that makes sense.





The USAF "ABU" has not been very popular some of its pockets are rather useless and the material is said to be too heavy in hotter climates

From my experience (lots of heavy construction), summer weights were ONLY worth a **** in two places:
- Jungles (say like in the southern command)
- In garrison on base when back from TDY and not actually working.

Summer weights just didn't last on the job. We always wore the winter weights most of the time, which is really a misnomer because aside from the summer weights ability to dry out faster, they were nearly indentical in terms of how hot they were. What's more, after awhile, those winter weights got pretty thin in the fabric. A well broken in set of winter weights was a uniform to keep.

A way to tell Navy(and Marines) from others is they roll up their sleeves showing the inside of the fabric the Army and Air Force do not also Navy and Marines wear pointed field hats Army and AF do not.

At least some things never change. Army and AF roll up their sleeves the same. Navy and Marines do it differently. The block cap has always been a department of the navy thing.


As an aside.

I don't care much for the new uniforms. I still wear BDU pants when i go hiking or am outdoors. BDU's are what i was "raised" with. I'll never wear that new styled crap.

[Platapus]

I used to hate the way the AF rolled up their sleeves. It looked stupid to have your cuffs at you elbows.

The way the Marines do it is much easier and, in my opinion, looks better.

[August]

I used to hate the way the AF rolled up their sleeves. It looked stupid to have your cuffs at you elbows.

The way the Marines do it is much easier and, in my opinion, looks better.

The Armys solution was to ban allowing rolled up sleeves altogether.

According to them rolled down (and loose fitting) sleeves actually keep you cooler. They also protect the forearms against sunburn as well as most cuts and scratches.

[Platapus]

The Armys solution was to ban allowing rolled up sleeves altogether.

According to them rolled down (and loose fitting) sleeves actually keep you cooler. They also protect the forearms against sunburn as well as most cuts and scratches.

That's a real good point, especially when out in the field. :yep:

[Growler]

The thing I hated about summer weight BDUs was the "one-wash-to-First Sergeant" habit - after few launderings, they faded so badly that they looked like those of the career NCOs', faded almost to a uniform grey.

That, and the nasty tendency then had of burning through when you held an iron anywhere near them.

[Ducimus]

I used to hate the way the AF rolled up their sleeves. It looked stupid to have your cuffs at you elbows.

The way the Marines do it is much easier and, in my opinion, looks better.

I never had cuffs at my elbow. The trick was how how many rolls you made and how wide you made them before folding down that outer fold. It had to be juuuuussst right. As a SrA, i rolled up my sleeves to where i looked like a SSgt. You could barely see the 3rd stripe, and couldn't see the bottom of the chevrons at all, so it looked like i had a 4th covered by the roll.

The only problem was, getting your blouse on or off was a tight fight on the bisceps - but hey, you looked hard charging.

I also boxed my covers, and wore them NOT tipped back on my head, but low over the eyes.

I was hard core, but then, i was a Horseman. :salute:

[Feuer Frei!]

And now it's the Camo Uniform's turn.
For a review anyways:

Soldiers wanted to do away with their current camo uniforms and adopt the pattern now being worn by their counterparts in Afghanistan."A lot of the Soldiers brought up that they just want to have the MultiCam, or Operation Enduring Freedom Camouflage pattern, as the standard design for all uniforms," Chandler said.

The Army did a radical about-face in 2009, adopting the MultiCam pattern developed by New York-based design firm Crye Precision to replace its so-called Universal Camo Pattern for Soldiers deployed to Afghanistan. The Operation Enduring Freedom Camo Pattern, or OCP, is popular due to how it blends into the varied backgrounds across the combat zone.
Chandler's predecessor, Sgt. Maj. Kenneth Preston, told Military.com last summer he believed the service was right to shift away from the universal camouflage pattern adopted in 2005 to the MultiCam scheme.
"The OCP allows the Soldiers to get far closer to potential enemies before being observed," Preston said. "I believe [Soldiers] are safer" wearing the OCP.
The Army launched a follow-up program late last year to see whether MultiCam or a family of patterns designed for different climates would be a better fit Army-wide than the UCP.
The $10 million effort led by Program Executive Office Soldier will lead to a pattern for desert and arid climates, one for jungle and woodland zones and another so-called "transitional" pattern that will work in a wide range of potential combat zones. The Army will also select a fourth pattern to camouflage its tactical gear -- such as body armor covers and magazine pouches -- that can blend with all three.
Though Chandler emphasized cost savings as a factor in several uniform modification ideas, he dodged questions about the cost of fielding a family of camo patterns while the service is already buying OCP uniforms and gear for Afghanistan-bound troops and Soldiers seem to want the pattern for universal use.
"We're not going to do that," Chandler said of adopting MultiCam uniforms for all Soldiers. "We're looking at a new Army uniform through a very deliberate process with using some technology in industry to figure out a better pattern that works in more than just Afghanistan."


SOURCE (http://www.military.com/news/article/soldiers-tell-top-nco-they-want-multicam.html)

[Stealhead]

From what I understand the new AF ABU or what ever are a single weight unlike the light weight and heavies which I fully agree with the low life span and durability on the summers lucky for me one of my tech school instructors told our class about the shiftiness and some of us took heed and bought more heavy weights.

The issue with the ABU is not so much durability it is that it is too heavy and not very breathable which is bad if an airman is not staying cool very well he wont be able to wear out his uniform.

The Velcro is mainly used on your unit patches and the like which you either take of or leave on full time seems like the Army is going back to the buttons though the main gripe with the Velcro was it getting fouled up with dirt. The Air Force seems to love the velcro and metal zippers on the ABU though but that is typical Air Force oh and they still make you wear that stupid reflective belt even in areas of know enemy activity.Not as bad as my friend a 27 year E-9 USAF back in Nam at Tong Sun Nut(near Saigon) a couple weeks before Tet some AF general did not like all the sandbags around the base buildings(which where there to provide cover from VC rocket attacks that occurred a few times a week) so they had to take them down while he was there.After he left they started setting them back up too late for my friends unit though on the night of Tet a 155 rocket hit his barracks and killed 10 airmen and wounded many more but hey it looked great without the sandbags.:yeah: