View Full Version : Warning Touchy subject: Dambusters dog is now called Digger not Nigga
kiwi_2005
06-14-11, 05:13 AM
http://i51.tinypic.com/5cwuw3.jpg
A decision had finally been made to change the name of the dog in Sir Peter Jackson‘s remake of The Dam Busters to ‘Digger’. “So what?”, I hear you say. Well, for those unfamiliar with the original story or film, the dog’s actual name is ‘******’. And yes, he’s a black labrador. Hmm, probably a very wise call me thinks. However, it has caused great debate, even in these more politcally correct times.[quote]Produced by Sir Peter Jackson, The Dam Busters will be a remake of the 1955 classic film starring Michael Redgrave and Richard Todd. The film, based on the true story of Squadron 617 of the Royal Air Force, will be directed by Jackson’s protege, first time director Christian Rivers. Stephen Fry is penning the script and will most likely play role, given his role in The Hobbit. A decision had finally been made to change the name of the dog in Sir Peter Jackson‘s remake of The Dam Busters to ‘Digger’. “So what?”, I hear you say. Well, for those unfamiliar with the original story or film, the dog’s actual name is ‘******’. And yes, he’s a black labrador. Hmm, probably a very wise call me thinks. However, it has caused great debate, even in these more politcally correct times.
http://www.admitone.co.nz/2011/06/14/whats-in-a-name-the-dam-busters-removes-the-n-word/
True to the story the dog name should stay as ******.
The word ****** derives from the latin word niger meaning black man. A white person can't be a ******. So is ****** offensive? Well I don't know I wasn't brought up in the deep south of the USA and being colored myself I don't find it offensive. Over here we call white people Pakeha which means Stranger some white people dont like that name where others dont mind one bit. I think its all how you interpret these words.
Gangsta rap artists add the ****** word in their lyrics all the time its common to hear gonna shoot your nigga ass etc., and its ok.
On the other hand for the sensitive types this is a dog where most likely in the movie nigga will be heard plenty of times. eg: Here nigga go fetch nigga good boy nigga! Some might get upset.
They should leave the name as it is changing it kinda kills the movie imo, if its going to be a remake they should not change a thing! No one is forcing those people who might find it offensive to go watch the movie. Only reason I could think off is if the PC groups get hold of this it could ruin a few careers, its not like Peter Jackson is doing an anti semite Mel Gibson rant. :dead:
No offensive meant.
THE_MASK
06-14-11, 05:16 AM
Yeah ok , quite frankly that word should be washed clean from the worlds history books never to return .
BossMark
06-14-11, 05:19 AM
Well Guy Gibson named is dog ****** then why change it, as far I am concerned the PC brigade can take a running jump.
Hottentot
06-14-11, 05:20 AM
I'm sure I have heard of this controversy for at least three or four times during the last several years, first time being when I still frequented Ubi's IL-2 forums back in high school. That's how I learned about the dog and its name in the first place.
If they were less busy renaming dogs and more busy with filming, the freaking movie would be on the screens already!
antikristuseke
06-14-11, 05:35 AM
Revising history is never a good thing.
papa_smurf
06-14-11, 05:41 AM
Revising history is never a good thing.
Least its only the dogs name been changed, nothing like the farce of U-571 (sorry I mentioned THAT film here)
Platapus
06-14-11, 05:49 AM
If the only historical inaccuracy in this movie is the dog's name, I will be greatly surprised.
The film, based on the true story of Squadron 617 of the Royal Air Force...
If they can change other aspects of the story in order to make the movie more marketable, than changing the dog's name is small spuds.
Now, if someone were making a historically accurate documentary, then the dog's name should not be changed. But this movie does not seem to be a historical documentary.
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 05:55 AM
The name should remain! I've visited the memorial to this lab many times as an air cadet when gliding at Scampton, history is history and typically somebody who wasn't a part of that history wants to rewrite it. Will all the crews be American? Will they come back totally unscathed? Will they rework the bomb so it skates or skis across the water rather than bounces?
The film should not be remade, and if it can't be done with the two flying Lancasters in the world then it shouldn't be done ever! No CGI please.
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafscampton/rafcms/mediafiles/gallery/D648980D_1143_EC82_2EAEFA2F14E561EB/******s_grave_large.jpg
BossMark
06-14-11, 05:58 AM
The name should remain! I've visited the memorial to this lab many times as an air cadet when gliding at Scampton, history is history and typically somebody who wasn't a part of that history wants to rewrite it. Will all the crews be American? Will they come back totally unscathed? Will they rework the bomb so it skates or skis across the water rather than bounces?
The film should not be remade, and if it can't be done with the two flying Lancasters in the world then it shouldn't be done ever! No CGI please.
Couldnt agree with you more well said :salute:
The film should not be remade, and if it can't be done with the two flying Lancasters in the world then it shouldn't be done ever! No CGI please.
Why not? Ok better to maybe do films on fresh subjects not done before but why not do a film with CGi? Why the hate I mean frankly we are not going to have real flying machines from that epoch forever and special effects have their place, heck done correctly we can have accurate models for theatre/year of operations and no more "fake" Me-109s like in Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade. As long as they don't replace a good story, acting, dialouge why not? It's not as if the original dambusters had real Lancs for all the scenes.
As to the dog, really not sure-I hate that word for what it represents but also hate covering up history. :shifty:
kiwi_2005
06-14-11, 06:17 AM
The name should remain! I've visited the memorial to this lab many times as an air cadet when gliding at Scampton, history is history and typically somebody who wasn't a part of that history wants to rewrite it. Will all the crews be American? Will they come back totally unscathed? Will they rework the bomb so it skates or skis across the water rather than bounces?
The film should not be remade, and if it can't be done with the two flying Lancasters in the world then it shouldn't be done ever! No CGI please.
Good point. I think they will try and make the movie as true to the real story as they can but yeah most likely will go CGI and whether all the crews will be Americans im hoping so, surely.
Tribesman
06-14-11, 06:53 AM
I think it is only right that history is rewritten to prevent any possible offence.
They should follow the earlier example and call the dog Trigger instead of ******, the dog must be played by Roger Loyd Pack and must frequently call Guy Gibson "Dave".
I think it is only right that history is rewritten to prevent any possible offence.
They should follow the earlier example and call the dog Trigger instead of ******, the dog must be played by Roger Loyd Pack and must frequently call Guy Gibson "Dave".
:har::har::har:
I'm in two minds of this one. On one hand it is the dogs name, but on the other hand it was another era and you can't get away with half the words you could back then than you can now. So ****** is alas probably off the cards. However, given the writer of the script I would hope that that is the only change. :yep:
Digga, please. :-?
Sorry, that's about the only response I can think up to something like this.... /facepalms
Oh, and especially for Hunter:
"Digga just got kicked in yo chest!"
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1167203_o.gif
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 08:00 AM
Political Corectness....a veritable minefield.
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 08:18 AM
Just found out they're gonna use B17s.
Oh, and the dog is going to be a Collie, like Lassie, or a German Shepherd like the Littlest Hobo, or Rin Tin Tin! :o
And it's not in Germany, it's going to be N. Korea, or China (Three Gorges Dam would be a good one!).
And it's not going to be dams, it's going to be nuclear 'powerplants' :03:.
And it's not going to be at night, as it's too dark for the pilots.
So, a daylight raid to N. Korea in B17s piloted by dogs to destroy nuclear 'powerplants' *coughs - weapons facility*, called The Dambusters. The lead dog is going to write a book called Enemy Cats Ahead, but will be heavily censored for 60 years :doh:
@joea - I agree that the original didn't always use real a/c, and on occasion the models didn't look too realistic, but there is a certain charm about models that CGI just can't replace. I, for instance, much prefer the wonderful stop-motion of Jason and the Argonauts, or The Golden Voyage of Sinbad to much (not all) of the current crop of CGI'd films.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Hz3ko1xMYTc/TJkk4XOFjfI/AAAAAAAAAPs/EfE950R6GF8/s1600/key_jason-and-the-argonauts10.jpg
Much better than -
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_vY8I5HvOvk8/SwcRQtQYeyI/AAAAAAAAJ3Q/etr8A1adATk/s1600/croc5.jpg
http://cdn.screenrant.com/wp-content/uploads/gl-costume.jpg
I was also about to rant that if I had a budget of some £26m (us$42m) I would probably invest in building some real a/c, but then I came across this site http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/2383809/Takeoff-looms-for-Dambusters and found he's had ten replicas manufactured in China (so that's it then, N. Korea will be the target :D). Still, to manufacture a flying replica would have been better.
Feuer Frei!
06-14-11, 08:24 AM
A Bone of Contention it is no longer.
I wonder how this translates into other movies with other cultures?
Oh, and especially for Hunter:
"Digga just got kicked in yo chest!"
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1167203_o.gif
is that Obama? :o
A Bone of Contention it is no longer.
I wonder how this translates into other movies with other cultures?
Red Dawn remake. :03:
To be honest though, I'm not as concerned as I was about this film when I read that Stephen Fry was writing the script. He's usually quite good with historical accuracy. I think (and hope) that ****** is the only thing to be changed for modern audiences. Plus David Frost is on the team, so I imagine the reason why it's only just been confirmed now that ****** is out is because it's taken them this long to win him over. :haha:
Well at least they didnae call it 'Token Black'.... :D
Sigh ain't PC a wonderful thing.... :down:
Cheers
Garion
is that Obama? :o
According to Yubba, probably yes. :03:
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 08:39 AM
Red Dawn remake. :03:
To be honest though, I'm not as concerned as I was about this film when I read that Stephen Fry was writing the script. He's usually quite good with historical accuracy. I think (and hope) that ****** is the only thing to be changed for modern audiences. Plus David Frost is on the team, so I imagine the reason why it's only just been confirmed now that ****** is out is because it's taken them this long to win him over. :haha:
Sir David's choice is Nigsy, which Gibson sometimes called ******. So I think that would be an excellent, and still authentic, choice.
And how come when a black man says that word it's socially acceptable, but with a white man it's not? But I can't ask that as that's also deemed racist to even imply there is a difference one way or the other! :damn:
mookiemookie
06-14-11, 08:41 AM
And how come when a black man says that word it's socially acceptable, but with a white man it's not?
Because when a white man says it, it carries with it the baggage of 400 years of slavery.
And back on topic...I'm on the fence about this. I can see why they would change it, but then again, why should they? I guess the controversy of changing it is much less than the controversy of not changing it.
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 08:43 AM
is that Obama? :o
No. Too busy playin' golf.:shifty:
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 08:47 AM
Well at least they didnae call it 'Token Black'.... :D
Sigh ain't PC a wonderful thing.... :down:
Cheers
Garion
:har: My favorite "token black" is the cook in "Crash Dive." All of the period WW2 movies have their token black dude, and jewish guy, and someone from Flatbush.:haha:
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 08:48 AM
@ Herr Berr; Wonderful movie!:rock::yeah:
Feuer Frei!
06-14-11, 08:52 AM
So we forgo history and favour RE-writing it, just to be politically correct?
Well, what's the point of having history at all then?
Historical accuracy? Nope.
But, it would just be easy meat for the media if it wasn't changed.
They better start remaking a ton of films then and re-writing history.
Burying or hiding or changing history is not being realistic.
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 08:53 AM
I guess the controversy of changing it is much less than the controversy of not changing it.
Oh, and don't forget the shameless free publicity! :smug:
@McBee, thank you! :D
The dog was called ******...end of.
I'm sick of these bloody PC thugs saying we can not say this we can not say that....Blah blah blah.
AVGWarhawk
06-14-11, 09:15 AM
And how come when a black man says that word it's socially acceptable,
It should not be acceptible. Many in the black community have stated this.
-shrug-
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 09:18 AM
subsim motion: Motion to change Steed's user name to: Stigger:hmmm: , or maybe "Gordon's Pet.":O:
all vote:
kiwi_2005
06-14-11, 09:20 AM
I was also about to rant that if I had a budget of some £26m (us$42m) I would probably invest in building some real a/c, but then I came across this site http://www.stuff.co.nz/entertainment/film/2383809/Takeoff-looms-for-Dambusters and found he's had ten replicas manufactured in China (so that's it then, N. Korea will be the target :D). Still, to manufacture a flying replica would have been better.
Damn how did I miss that article, good find!
Onkel Neal
06-14-11, 09:22 AM
I think it is only right that history is rewritten to prevent any possible offence.
They should follow the earlier example and call the dog Trigger instead of ******, the dog must be played by Roger Loyd Pack and must frequently call Guy Gibson "Dave".
And Trigger should fly one of the planes after the pilot is wounded. And get the girl. Girl dog, that is.
Feuer Frei!
06-14-11, 09:23 AM
It should not be acceptible. Many in the black community have stated this.
-shrug-
Many in the black community have also said that Nigga is acceptable, but ****** isn't.
Beats me.
antikristuseke
06-14-11, 09:24 AM
It should not be acceptible. Many in the black community have stated this.
-shrug-
The acceptability of words in a social situation should depend on the context the given word is used in, no word itself should be concidered inherently offensive.
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 09:25 AM
What would Mel Brooks do?:hmmm:
antikristuseke
06-14-11, 09:26 AM
What would Mel Brooks do?:hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YgxI9W_3qU
AVGWarhawk
06-14-11, 09:58 AM
The acceptability of words in a social situation should depend on the context the given word is used in, no word itself should be concidered inherently offensive.
it is arguably the most consequential social insult in American History, though, at the same time, a word that reminds us of ***8216;the ironies and dilemmas, tragedies and glories of the American experience***8217;***8221; (Kennedy 1).
As a black American male, the word ****** conjures up within me hate, hostility, violence, oppression, and a very shameful and unfortunate part of American History. The word symbolizes the everlasting chains of a people plagued with hate and bondage simply because of skin color. For many black people, including myself, ****** is the most pejorative word in the English language. Even when compared to racial slurs like kike, honkey, cracker, wet back, spic, jungle bunny, pod, tarbaby, and white trash, ****** is noted as the worst insult in the English language. The word ****** suggests that black people are second class citizens, ignorant and less than human.
Should ****** be Used as a term of Endearment in the Black Community and Everywhere?
Randall Kennedy argues that the word ****** should be usable by all people as long as no one is being harmed. ***8220;There is nothing necessarily wrong with a white person saying ******, just like there is nothing necessarily wrong with a black person saying it. What should matter is the context in which the word is spoken***8221; (Kennedy 51). Here Kennedy argues that context can determine how ****** is used, and to treat the word otherwise would transform ****** into a kind of fetish. Fetish by definition means to treat something with unusual obsession or devotion.
http://wrt-intertext.syr.edu/XI/******.html
Bakkels
06-14-11, 09:59 AM
Using B2's instead of Lancasters would be rewriting history. Changing the name of a dog? Hardly...
Isn't racism part of history?
Leave the name as it is.
Maybe someone should make a movie about red tail squadron as well or maybe not?
It make look racist as well.
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 10:13 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YgxI9W_3qU
That was good, it then led me to a Hitler v Darth Vader rap battle, and then the very same redone with lego :rotfl2:
@Bakkels don't joke about it, it may just come true. Okay, maybe not with B2s but there's plenty of surplus a/c out there at the minute, Aussie F111s, UK Harriers, and then there's the mothballed graveyard at Davis Monthan!!!
Bakkels
06-14-11, 10:20 AM
@Bakkels don't joke about it, it may just come true. Okay, maybe not with B2s but there's plenty of surplus a/c out there at the minute, Aussie F111s, UK Harriers, and then there's the mothballed graveyard at Davis Monthan!!!
How about using a Concord?
Or a space-shuttle! Well I guess that would only happen if Michael Bay were directing this movie... :haha:
Feuer Frei!
06-14-11, 10:24 AM
Using B2's instead of Lancasters would be rewriting history. Changing the name of a dog? Hardly...
Yep, even changing the name of a dog is changing history!
Considering the Dog was named that.
His grave says it.
And the movie was based on a true story.
Hottentot
06-14-11, 11:01 AM
The acceptability of words in a social situation should depend on the context the given word is used in, no word itself should be concidered inherently offensive.
I'm with antikristuseke on this one. It might also have something to do with historical differences. As Finland hasn't had similar minority of black people, let alone slavery in the past, the word "******", while not acceptable these days, doesn't necessarily conjure such harsh images in here either.
To give an example, I have seen some old school books and adverts that use the word. Some of them are circulating the internet too, as far as I know. There are poems, stories and "facts" that in our modern times seem weird, but were in their own era considered scientifical facts. Even from my own childhood, in the early 1990s, I remember there was a popular candy called "the ******'s kiss", which was at some point renamed to something more politically correct.
The word in here has been mostly benevolent. It was the word that was used when talking about black people. Like it or not, it is part of our history. That doesn't mean that I'm running around calling every black person ****** these days, obviously not, since it's now politically incorrect in here too. But I have also had some heated debates concerning if all the people in the 20th century were obvious racists, since they used the word on regular basis. People who think like that are doing exactly what should not be done according to majority of historians, that is, trying to impose our moral views and codes on the past and then trying to understand it based on that. It doesn't work.
Should the word be in a movie? I really don't care, I just want to see the film. It's a film: if I want to study history, I have a whole university for that and I'm doing it there daily anyway. If I got to choose, I would keep the dog's name as it was. But it doesn't ruin the film for me if it isn't.
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 11:29 AM
The dog was called ******...end of.
I'm sick of these bloody PC thugs saying we can not say this we can not say that....Blah blah blah.
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/4074/mugabeepa2102400x346xj5.jpg
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 11:37 AM
#43
Oh come on.....a bit strong don't you think? :hmmm:
I've deliberately not quoted the image.
BossMark
06-14-11, 11:47 AM
@ Vender post 43 bloody marvellous
:har: :har:
#43
Oh come on.....a bit strong don't you think? :hmmm:
I've deliberately not quoted the image. Maybe,maybe not my elders, :timeout:
Hottentot
06-14-11, 11:57 AM
Well so much for post #43. Now it's Bakkels' post :stare:.
But in all honesty it was, not the words of the right, :stare:
Hottentot
06-14-11, 12:02 PM
There is a fine line between editing a post and deleting the whole post. But enough offtopic from me.
Off topic! When the photo is the distinction more difficult, and for sentences significantly easier! So back on track.....
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 12:13 PM
Maybe,maybe not my elders, :timeout:
Your co-operation is appreciated :salute:
WTF is going on? We'll make a plan for your week STEED, nothing to worry about, you only notice it, :rock:
We'll make a plan for your week STEED, nothing to worry about, you only notice it, :rock:
What has that got to do with this thread? :k_confused:
What has that got to do with this thread? :k_confused:Nothing, that is just smile as David :woot:
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 12:46 PM
What has that got to do with this thread? :k_confused:
If I recall, we were naming you "Steeger" and making you some bomber mascot.:
I can see it now....
Buna's bastid bomber squadron and their faithfull mascot Stigger.
http://images.inmagine.com/img/aspireimages/kcd00170/kcd00170034.jpg
Sailor Steve
06-14-11, 12:46 PM
We've actually been having this discussion for quite a while.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151541&highlight=dambusters. The decision was hardly finalized back then, so I'm not knocking this thread, just having fun with the past.
As for the choice, I'm undecided (not that our opinion matters at this point, or ever did). Platapus made an excellent point about how many other changes are likely. This probably won't be accurate in other ways, so a name change is nothing.
AVGWarhawk's link is an outstanding study of the problems involved.
I don't see a problem with the name, as it was the dog's name, but then it was just a name, and if it bothers people I don't have a problem with changing it either. I would like to say that the filmmakers' concern probably wasn't with 'The PC Crowd', as so many label them, but with overall negative reaction from the filmgoing public, who are their bread and butter. If a small group is going raise a big stink they probably don't care, but if a much larger group is going to take offense they probably just decided it was easier to change than fight.
As I said, I'm undecided.
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 12:49 PM
So what do we feed Stigger? Fish-n-chips? might upset his tummy.:doh:
To be fair, the original film wasn't exactly bang on the mark either. Barnes Wallis didn't have half the problems with the bureaucracy that the film portrayed him having, nor was he the Chief designer of the Wellington bomber like the character says in the film. Neither did Gibson devise the spotlight altimeter, it was suggested to him by a chap in the ministry because of a method Coastal Command had been using for some time (presumably with their Leigh lights).
However much of that is because the film was made only twelve years after the event and a lot of the information (including the shape of the bomb) was still classified.
At the end of the day, the film says that it is 'based on' true events, 'based on', not an 'accurate retelling' which means there are going to be slight changes here and there, just as there was in the original. If that means that people will boycott the film, well, fair enough, but I will give it a chance, Digger or not (and let's face it, the Dogs name was already altered for American audiences in the original film), and if it's another U-571...well...I haven't watched U-571 so I haven't been exposed to that kind of horror.
Anyway, I shall end with a spot of trivia. :salute:
...when filming on location at RAF Scampton, where ****** and Gibson were to stroll through a group of RAF men waiting outside of a building for a briefing. The dog could not be persuaded to move off one spot, or even dragged past it on a leash. It later transpired that the spot was the site where the real ****** had been buried, some 11 years before, whose gravestone had been temporarily removed for filming. In the end, the scene was filmed without the dog.
I haven't watched U-571 so I haven't been exposed to that kind of horror.
The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover. :yep:
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 03:16 PM
The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover. :yep:
LOL...trust you :DL
GoldenRivet
06-14-11, 03:18 PM
Yeah ok , quite frankly that word should be washed clean from the worlds history books never to return .
along with all the other racist terminology or just the particular word in question?
just to clarify, because i was under the impression that all racist monikers were equally offensive, not just the one mentioned in the article.
nikimcbee
06-14-11, 03:22 PM
The only good part is seeing Jon Bon Jovi getting nailed with that hatch cover. :yep:
You forgot the best line in the whole movie:
Everything is in German.
http://www.zuguide.com/images/21618/21618.12.219.138.jpg
Meh! Who cares either way. Go watch the film, eat some popcorn, go home either satisfied or disatisfied with the entertainment as presented. FFS its a movie!:88)
Jimbuna
06-14-11, 03:40 PM
Meh! Who cares either way. Go watch the film, eat some popcorn, go home either satisfied or disatisfied with the entertainment as presented. FFS its a movie!:88)
Fair point :yep:
If the only historical inaccuracy in this movie is the dog's name, I will be greatly surprised.
So will I.
But I can't see very well where the real problem is actually. And I'm not for changing the dog's name. Changing it would do no more than making the united states of America's black population think that segregation and racism never existed in the united states army's ranks, which is wrong of course.
The thing is that, during the presence of this army in Europe, Eisenhower himself got to hear about more, and more, and more, and MORE local women complaining of rape by your soldiers, and he decided to put an end to this behaviour from his OWN ARMY by court-martialing GIs responsible for that.
Let's not take murders in consideration here, only the rapes.
Following the 17.000 or 18.000 rapes perpetrated by American soldiers on English, French, and German women (the high majority of them of course), 84% of all American soldiers who got the death sentence were black. Black soldiers represented only 10% of all soldiers enlisted in the American army at the time. Numbers speak well, don't they ?
I'm sure that leaves no doubt how your army made fun while in Europe, nor why some appear not to like you a lot to this day. But feel free to keep up appearances shouting from the rooftops that white American soldiers and ******s have always been equal to each other of course.
God, your fathers must be turning in their grave like a ventilator fan.
Hey Alex, you do realize that the Dambusters were British right? :roll:
Tribesman
06-14-11, 06:11 PM
So will I....blah blah blabbity blah bleugh
Wow :doh:
So will I.
But I can't see very well where the real problem is actually. And I'm not for changing the dog's name. Changing it would do no more than making the united states of America's black population think that segregation and racism never existed in the united states army's ranks, which is wrong of course.
The thing is that, during the presence of this army in Europe, Eisenhower himself got to hear about more, and more, and more, and MORE local women complaining of rape by your soldiers, and he decided to put an end to this behaviour from his OWN ARMY by court-martialing GIs responsible for that.
Let's not take murders in consideration here, only the rapes.
Following the 17.000 or 18.000 rapes perpetrated by American soldiers on English, French, and German women (the high majority of them of course), 84% of all American soldiers who got the death sentence were black. Black soldiers represented only 10% of all soldiers enlisted in the American army at the time. Numbers speak well, don't they ?
I'm sure that leaves no doubt how your army made fun while in Europe, nor why some appear not to like you a lot to this day. But feel free to keep up appearances shouting from the rooftops that white American soldiers and ******s have always been equal to each other of course.
God, your fathers must be turning in their grave like a ventilator fan.
Good to know that Eisenhower did not encourage this kind of behavior and some got death sentences-harsh treatment isn't it?
I guess Americans have dick too.
On another hand France should had been liberated by Russians there would be less to complain about or maybe you have second thought about liberation at all?:hmmm:
Thanks for those historical facts.
Im actually surprised that it wasn't 80% blacks vs 20% whites.
France has nothing to be proud of as far as ww2.
It used to be complex issue and makes me sort of wonder how history is thought there.
What you wrote still reads like sort typical french cliché....good they let de Gaulle march into Paris or is it?.
@ August : No I didn't.
Yet I've been reading about them at some time in the past.
But today was not a good one for me.
So that was my rant of the day, on the racial subject - it could have been any. :D
Herr-Berbunch
06-14-11, 06:54 PM
France has nothing to be proud of as far as ww2.
I'm far from being a fan of the French (no offense Alex:D) being a stereotypical Brit, but you are so wrong. I'll give you de Gaulle and his government and some of the forces actions were shockingly sh'te, but a lot of French people risked instant death or harsh prison sentences by helping downed airmen and PoWs a route to Spain inc. forged documents, clothing, shelter, food. Assisting SOE airdrops from wireless operations to lighting torches to mark the landing site. Acts of sabotage against German equipment and lines of communication. There are myriad other instances of selflessness and humanity that have never been, nor will ever be told.
So France can be, and should be proud of all it's unsung heroes of WWII. :O:
The rest of them can go to hell.
Ducimus
06-14-11, 07:02 PM
The frog just hates Americans and jumps at any opportunity to act on that hatred. I love the new anti American sig pic too. It is rather artistic, i'll give it that. Whatever floats your boat i guess. American hatred is nothing new to me, I've seen it first hand, in real life, in my face when i wore an uniform. It's just always interesting when people get (or get more) vocal with it, which is the only reason I point it out at all - i find it funny. I find it funny because its as pathetic and ignorant as they make us out to be in the first place.
Back on topic, Did i mention im a Carlin fan?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kh0Uu1yD-v0
TLAM Strike
06-14-11, 07:05 PM
Hey Alex, you do realize that the Dambusters were British right? :roll:
Really? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFA-195) :O:
What you wrote still reads like sort typical french cliché....good they let de Gaulle march into Paris or is it?. Yea him and a bunch of Spaniards. :haha:
(http://www.cracked.com/article_18857_the-6-greatest-war-heroes-who-got-screwed-out-history.html)
Tribesman
06-14-11, 07:09 PM
Really? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VFA-195)
Nice, but the thing is the actual "british" dambusters were from all over the place and only some of them were British
Platapus
06-14-11, 07:39 PM
So we forgo history and favour RE-writing it, just to be politically correct?
Well, what's the point of having history at all then?
Historical accuracy? Nope.
But, it would just be easy meat for the media if it wasn't changed.
They better start remaking a ton of films then and re-writing history.
Burying or hiding or changing history is not being realistic.
Please tell me a time when history was not written/rewritten to serve some agenda?
This is why on most (all?) historical subjects there are multiple writings on the history from different viewpoints.
Alex that's the biggest WTF post I've read so far this year? Nice way to spit on veteran's graves too. :nope:
Edit: To prove I am not anti-French here is a link
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_France_during_World_War_II
Feuer Frei!
06-15-11, 03:40 AM
Please tell me a time when history was not written/rewritten to serve some agenda?
I agree and that is my point.
On a side note: written and RE-written are 2 different things i would have thought.
This is why on most (all?) historical subjects there are multiple writings on the history from different viewpoints.
Yea, sure, but that flows into the same thing which you said previously.
And i agree again.
And i also state that writing history is one thing, re-writing is from another.
And ofc you will get many differing view points about the same topic in history.
Firstly that is because of the author trying to sell his/her book/film, secondly because they have unearthed details/facts about that topic that others haven't previously, which is nowadays highly unlikely because history has been written in different styles and view points so many times.
And thirdly, history has been written pointing out so many differing views because, well, it's human, everyone has differing views and it's all about how it is presented, be it a book or film.
Different views on the same topic?
That's fine with me.
Historical accuracy suffering because you need to be politically correct so that you can make more money out of your publication? Wrong! Fail!
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