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View Full Version : Nanny State California proposes:


Feuer Frei!
06-08-11, 09:27 PM
...tighter regulations on Toy Guns.
Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck is proposing that the city require BB-gun replicas of actual firearms to be brightly colored so that police officers don't mistake them for real weapons.
The proposal, which the Los Angeles Police Commission will consider Tuesday, comes after two shootings involving officers and people with replica weapons, including one in which a teenager was wounded. Under the new rule, all such toys sold inLos Angeles would have the "entire exterior surface of the device white, bright red, bright orange, bright yellow, bright green, bright blue, bright pink or bright purple."

Guns would also be allowed if they were "constructed of transparent or translucent materials which permits unmistakable observation of the device's complete contents."

"This change will not ban such devices but will aid law enforcement in differentiating real firearms from BB devices and imitation firearms. It will also prevent the sales and possession of BB devices and imitation firearms in the city of Los Angeles that are similar in size and appearance to actual firearms," Beck wrote in a memo.

The guns come in various models that closely resemble real weapons such as Berettas, shotguns and pistols. Law enforcement experts say the toys can easily be mistaken for the real thing, especially in a situation in which an officer must react quickly and decisively.
On Dec. 16, three boys were playing with the guns on North Verdugo Road in Glassell Park when two LAPD officers stopped to investigate (http://articles.latimes.com/2010/dec/19/local/la-me-lapd-pellet-gun-20101219). An officer fired at one of the boys, believing the boy's gun was a real weapon, according to an LAPD news release. The boy was shot in the torso and underwent surgery.

Capt. David Lindsay, who headed the Northeast Division when the shooting occurred, said the division had faced several incidents in recent months involving toy guns, and noted that they have been taken from gang members and robbery suspects.

"It's a consistent issue for us. I saw the guns the kids had that night from a distance of 3 or 4 feet; when you first look at them, they look identical to a particular style of handgun, a Beretta 92F," Lindsay said in an interview earlier this year. He has since been transferred to a different position.
"If you see something that just looks like a gun, you're going to shoot," Smith said after the Glassell Park shooting. "That's what you're trained to do. Your mind doesn't have enough time to process whether it's a real gun or a fake gun."

His office said Monday that he supported Beck's proposal.

SOURCE (http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-lapd-fake-guns-20110607,0,7534310.story)

August
06-08-11, 10:31 PM
Stupid.

All one needs to make a fake weapon look real is a can of black spray paint. On the other hand a brightly painted real gun looks fake but is no less deadly.

antikristuseke
06-08-11, 11:10 PM
Spray painting an actual gun seems like a really stupid idea though. One thing is the paint fouling the action, the other is the possible flamability issue.

Feuer Frei!
06-08-11, 11:17 PM
http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo120/pikuinhas08/airsoft/DSCF5239.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo120/pikuinhas08/DSCF5229.jpg

http://i367.photobucket.com/albums/oo120/pikuinhas08/airsoft/DSCF5911.jpg

Wow! Looks awesome!

BTW, official response from Airsoft GI:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRwWuA_1KNY

August
06-09-11, 07:33 AM
Spray painting an actual gun seems like a really stupid idea though. One thing is the paint fouling the action, the other is the possible flamability issue.

Yeah well a guy stupid enough to rob a convenience store is stupid enough to paint his firearm a pretty color if he thinks it might deceive the cops at a distance. Besides you can avoid both the fouling and flammability issues pretty easily.

Feuer Frei!
06-09-11, 07:38 AM
What's next?
Painting baseball bats fluoro to warn law enforcers that the bat will not be used for a sporting event?

Ducimus
06-09-11, 07:58 AM
Hell i thought they BANNED working replica's YEARS ago. I remember this because i had one as a kid.

AVGWarhawk
06-09-11, 08:46 AM
Banning toy guns around the nation has gone on for sometime.

antikristuseke
06-09-11, 09:02 AM
Yeah well a guy stupid enough to rob a convenience store is stupid enough to paint his firearm a pretty color if he thinks it might deceive the cops at a distance. True that
Besides you can avoid both the fouling and flammability issues pretty easily.Not if you are that stupid to begin with though.

August
06-09-11, 09:03 AM
True thatNot if you are that stupid to begin with though.


If you were a cop would you be willing to bet your life on that?

antikristuseke
06-09-11, 09:16 AM
No.

AVGWarhawk
06-09-11, 09:18 AM
If you were a cop would you be willing to bet your life on that?

No and either should anyone else. Even if a crime is commited with a fake/toy gun it is still considered armed robbery.

Gerald
06-09-11, 09:18 AM
It occurs quite often, that people use airsoft related copies in the robbery, and police are taking, ALWAYS it for granted that there is a real weapon, and acts accordingly, as is the practice, and this may in some cases, devastating consequences,for the person who does not realize the seriousness of this.

antikristuseke
06-09-11, 09:22 AM
The perpetrators of those crimes have only themselves to blame for the consequences of their actions.

Herr-Berbunch
06-09-11, 09:24 AM
It occurs quite often, that people use airsoft related copies in the robbery, and police are taking, ALWAYS it for granted that there is a real weapon, and acts accordingly, as is the practice, and this may in some cases, devastating consequences.

Good - if 'toy' guns are used to scare innocent people (and thieving bankers!) then the police are right to use whatever force they deem necessary. Pretend to be a big boy, suffer the big boy's consequences.

August
06-09-11, 09:25 AM
No and either should anyone else. Even if a crime is commited with a fake/toy gun it is still considered armed robbery.


Exactly. The whole point of the law is to give cops a visible indicator that the gun isn't real. To me that means cops are expected to at least hesitate before shooting a person who is wielding a brightly colored weapon.

Since we all know that isn't likely to happen (at least not more than once) the law will not do what it is intended to do.

Feuer Frei!
06-09-11, 09:32 AM
It occurs quite often, that people use airsoft related copies in the robbery, and police are taking, ALWAYS it for granted that there is a real weapon, and acts accordingly, as is the practice, and this may in some cases, devastating consequences,for the person who does not realize the seriousness of this.
Devastating consequences indeed, as you will see in my linked article, which i might add is where this proposal started to 'form' momentum.
And it is not always robberies or other criminal activities that involve toy guns. Unfortunately.

Good - if 'toy' guns are used to scare innocent people (and thieving bankers!) then the police are right to use whatever force they deem necessary. Pretend to be a big boy, suffer the big boy's consequences.
Good? In the context of toy gun users being adults i'm assuming, who are crims.
Not 13-year olds who are playing in a park.
And unfortunately Tony, it's not as clear-cut as that what you state.
As you can see from my linked article here:
http://www.theeastsiderla.com/2011/04/would-a-pink-pellet-gun-have-avoided-a-glassell-park-tragedy/

This is tragic.
And the question is spot on too.

Gerald
06-09-11, 09:42 AM
@Feuer Frei! I only gave examples of what it could have on impact, and regarding the article, there are several things to add, a law that will include changes, will expose police officers to an uncertain situation, and thus becomes the problem in the long run, but one legislative change will, undoubtedly come about, the question is more how, and what form it will have.

Feuer Frei!
06-09-11, 09:46 AM
the question is more how, and what form it will have.
And the Senate will have that job.
And, if passed, what's to say the crims won't spray their guns?
Good luck with that, California. Good luck.
@Vendor, you read the park tragedy article?

Gerald
06-09-11, 09:59 AM
@Feuer Frei! Yes it is a tragedy, both for the 13 year old boy and his family, and even the policeman, who did an assessment, but acted by the book, but are likely to be the subject of an internal investigation, it had been possible to deal with the situation in a other and with other methods, and there are other weapons that can be used in these kinds of situations, and that he should be identified, other possibilities.

Herr-Berbunch
06-09-11, 10:01 AM
Tragic, yes, but once ordered to surrender by the police he should have realised the seriousness of the situation and done just that.

And what of the officer in the future, will he now risk his and others' lives by hesitating, just in case!

Personally I think some (as I don't know all, or even many) of the current gun laws (if that's what they are!) in the US are ludicrous. Proper, decent checks on people need to be made before being allowed to even think about purchasing one. Proper licensing of users (not just the owner), the firearms, and ammunition should be made. And is it really necessary for a mentally unstable person to own a firearm just because your damn constitution says so? Does somebody who lives in the middle of nowhere really need something 50-cal? When somebody 'rampages' with a Glock 19 what do the legislators do? - Nothing. What do the people do? - Buy more firearms as protection. Any decent human being should agree to ^those points being rediculous. To not do is just insanity.

Apologies if you don't agree, shoot me!



Oh no, I've turned in to Skybird! :doh:

Feuer Frei!
06-09-11, 10:17 AM
I have a solution:
don't point anything at a cop.
In all seriousness, the US is a gun state.
This could be the first steps to ban guns in civilian hands.
Painting replicas will not stop stupidity, crime, or bad parenting.
Any juve or crim can buy a $1 can of spray paint, black, and go from there.
Will a civil fine be a deterrent? Nope.

STEED
06-10-11, 12:00 PM
Have spud guns been banned yet?