Evasive tactics.

[Itkovian]

Salutations.

After spending a few hours getting Depth Charge in a recent convoy attack, and with the new version of IRAI coming out soon, I was wondering if anyone would like to post their favourite evasive tactics.

Basically, what method do you find works best to escape detection, or throw off escorts after being detected?

Itkovian

[stoianm]

mouse and cat... and try to go in the oposite direction that the convoy is heading

[tat501]

I think there is already quite a good thread on this somewhere.

[Itkovian]

I fear I could not find it. Besides, nothing wrong with keeping things fresh. :)

Itkovian

[Itkovian]

So, no thoughts on how to best avoid/survive Depth Charges and the likes once you have been detected?

I understand the idea of doing a flank speed run and then going to full stop while turning and letting the boat coast on its new course, but is there more to that?

At what point do you find you must have been detected? Is it too late when you can hear the ASDIC pings?

Surely there is a lot to discuss on this topic. :)

Itkovian

[BossMark]

Rig for silent running and hope for the best :hmmm:

[TheDarkWraith]

Rig for silent running and hope for the best :hmmm:

v1.0.0 of IRAI will make quick work of you if you do this. You're as good as dead in a very short period of time.

[Itkovian]

v1.0.0 of IRAI will make quick work of you if you do this. You're as good as dead in a very short period of time.

Sooo... what should we do then? :)

This is precisely why I made the thread. :)

Itkovian

[TheDarkWraith]

Sooo... what should we do then? :)

This is precisely why I made the thread. :)

Itkovian

being a pilot I'll throw some pilot lingo at ya: Yank and bank! In sub terms: change depth, direction, and speed (at same time/not at same time) at irregular intervals for a start.

[Itkovian]

being a pilot I'll throw some pilot lingo at ya: Yank and bank! In sub terms: change depth, direction, and speed (at same time/not at same time) at irregular intervals for a start.

I can see how this would help avoid incoming DCs, but how do I go from being pinged aggressively to actually making lose their "lock" on me?

Is it even possible without noisemakers, or is it at this point more a matter of jinking and dodging and waiting until they get tired of attacking?

Itkovian

[Targor Avelany]

I can see how this would help avoid incoming DCs, but how do I go from being pinged aggressively to actually making lose their "lock" on me?

Is it even possible without noisemakers, or is it at this point more a matter of jinking and dodging and waiting until they get tired of attacking?

Itkovian

well, to my understanding, especially if you will have TDW DC Water Disturbances, the escort cannot 'hear' you at all for a short period of time after the DC explosions, as it disturbes any sound in the water, making it impossible to track you. You can also risk it and go deeper than 200 for a short period of time - early in the war it really damages your hull though.

[Itkovian]

Allright, I'll try DC Water Disturbances. Sounds interesting. :)

Itkovian

[LemonA]

Gordon Williamson: U-Boats vs. Destroyer Escorts: The Battle of the Atlantic
http://img.xrmb2.net/images/890162.jpeg

Maybe a help for u-boat commanders to learn how to do evasive manoeuvres. But carefull, the book has bad critiques ... here in the forum and on the internet.
I don't know the book but i will start looking for it.

[vanjast]

It's a well known fact that surface hydrophones (1940's) have difficulty picking up subs under the convoy.

If you can, sit on the hydrophone and keep 'watch' on the escorts, stay deep and silent run, then plot your escape route in the reverse direction +-45 degs of the convoy route.
Always alter course for 'low profile' on the nearest escort (IOW = head directly towards/away from it)
Nearest escort = loudest prop... unless you've noticed an escort going 'silent'.

All the above has never failed me in SH3+4 = clean escapes at 100% realism + NYGM
:)

[Medzell]

The best method I've found is to attack from ahead at up to 45 degrees, shoot at longish range and be diving/bearing away as soon as you shoot. The escorts DO assume (initially) you're shooting from 90 degrees...........so don't! The FAT and LUT can be a huge help to attack heavily escorted convoys so having a pair of either of those gives an option.

Stoinm has a great vid tutorial on Hit And Run which is well worth watching and explains the mechanics of it. All you need to do after that is experiment and find what attack angle suits YOU best. But firing from distance off the 90 then turning away diving deep and running quietly gives you (usually) enough breathing space to get away far enough to safely start shadowing again and getting set up to attack once more. I have managed in the past to make repeated attacks over a couple of nights on the same convoy but I guess I'm a bit anal retentive when it comes to the whole reality/immersion thing.

In The 1943 U-Boat Commanders' Handbook (page56 of the 1989 reprint) they list the advantages of the Angled Attack and that it gives the submarine more freedom and doesn't mean the sub has to cross the line of escorts. If the convoy is "wide", attacking at 45 degrees has obvious benefits than the "vanilla" 90 degree attack where the destroyers will nail your arse 9 times out of 10.

Be ahead, don't shoot at 90 and be "going" before anyone is even aware or your eels "coming".

Shoot and scoot!!!

[Harbinger1]

Locate my link..." Can`t evade destroyers after kills. "
It was about a week or so ago. Let me know if you found it .
Good Luck.

[Dive! Dive! Dive!]

Me? I try and keep a pretty low profile and stay at range. If an escort gets a bit close I dive as low as I can go and turn off all engines.

[LemonA]

.. Let me know if you found it .
Good Luck.
Found it: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196606&highlight=destroyers

Edit:
Other links for escape manoeuvres
How to shake off escorts in 1944? (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=196882***91;/URL])
Advice how to escape from DD (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=183789&highlight=escape)
Depth Charges: Strategies to escape (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=155764&highlight=escape)
Destroyer Escape-Tactics! (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=138960&highlight=escape)
Strategies for Survival (http://www.freewebs.com/kielman/strategiesforsurvival.htm)
GWX's "uber" AI demystified (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=104377)
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1910502&postcount=3

[mobucks]

Stay deep directly in the track of the convoy. Surface inside of it and shoot short range. All those ships around will make it extremely difficult to track you.
Silent Running is used BEFORE you start being pinged to hell. Silent Running is not worth anything if they have you "locked" through active sonar pinging. Go back to silent if you notice they havent been keeping you locked.

[lonewulph]

I like the angle approach as well , firing the forward 4 torps into the convoy then emergency dive right toward the other alive boats. Start following one of the ships directly underneath while they are dropping DC's and running into each other, cut 90 degrees and go to zero speed to coast out of the other prop wash and chaos and pop back up to periscope depth on the other side of the convoy where you can fire number 5 in the rear. From there it's a matter of what TDW said, yank and bank, be unpredictable in speed direction and depth. Drop a decoy then turn 90 degrees and go back to zero speed. If you see one homing in on you again turn 90 and up the speed 5 clicks again when in their sonar blind spot, repeat until your 'general' direction is opposite of the rest of the convoy. Reserve battery power as often as possible, they will eventually have to rejoin the convoy.

[Harald_Lange]

Stoinm has a great vid tutorial on Hit And Run which is well worth watching and explains the mechanics of it.

Think I'll give this a goosey!

[SubHunter88]

specifically as it pertains to SH5 (Vanilla) - I think you should stay low and quiet and come to attack-depth INSIDE the convoy, Quickly shoot on the juiciest targets at close range, then go deep again and let it pass.

The DDs in vanilla have a strong tendency to go to the location the torpedos were originating from - Moving quickly away from there then going silent under the bulk of the convoy disguises you fairly well. Making a series of alternating turns between 45 and 90 deg also seems to throw more persistent DDs off.

[Hinrich Schwab]

specifically as it pertains to SH5 (Vanilla) - I think you should stay low and quiet and come to attack-depth INSIDE the convoy, Quickly shoot on the juiciest targets at close range, then go deep again and let it pass.

The DDs in vanilla have a strong tendency to go to the location the torpedos were originating from - Moving quickly away from there then going silent under the bulk of the convoy disguises you fairly well. Making a series of alternating turns between 45 and 90 deg also seems to throw more persistent DDs off.

The stock AI in SH5 is very easy to dupe and escape from. They will be asleep at the wheel until a torpedo goes off. Once that happens, then they wake up and calc the torpedo track and begin going active (note that all SH games do this when an impact occurs). However, in SH5, if one is inside the convoy, an aft torpedo shot that misses an escort will fool them into going in the opposite direction from your boat. They also assume ~3500-4000m for the search. Going silent and diving to the red line works almost too well and should be sufficient.

[SubHunter88]

The stock AI in SH5 is very easy to dupe and escape from. They will be asleep at the wheel until a torpedo goes off. Once that happens, then they wake up and calc the torpedo track and begin going active (note that all SH games do this when an impact occurs). However, in SH5, if one is inside the convoy, an aft torpedo shot that misses an escort will fool them into going in the opposite direction from your boat. They also assume ~3500-4000m for the search. Going silent and diving to the red line works almost too well and should be sufficient.

That's why i said SH5 vanilla specifically. Many mods improve the AI in various aspects so the same tricks that save your can in vanilla are a death sentence when running certain mods. At any rate, One Very solid tactic, tho also very risky is to (once you have a solid handle on your Boats performance characteristics) is to let a DD persue then Crash dive under a merchant crossing it at 90deg. The Vanilla DDs often Ram into the merchant, In the more realistic mods they'll Veer off hard and loose their 'lock' on you. assuming you get deep and silent before they swing back around.

So my real bottom line to the OP is- There is no perfect tactic. It depends heavily on what (if any) mods your running. The things that work in one setup are fatal in another.

[reflez]

me, well after trial and error i finally worked out a dam fine way of fooling the tommys.
basically i come from behind a convoy, if there is a destroyer aim for that first! if you manage to disable it your safe. next i go to flank speed gain as much distance and fire a full spread of fish at both the convoy and escorts, then most importantly DIVE, go down to about 150-200m and then shut down everything and go silent.
after say 2-5mins real time put the sub in reverse and hard port or starboard, the best part is that the destroyers will pass right over you and you will be fine.
if however you think the depth charges are getting a little to close for comfort stop and go dead silent again, honestly if you were trying to depth charge someone would you ever expect them to just stop moving?

hope this helps
Reflez