Quation on Star force, after its controversy now

[Castout]

I know personally that it damages your DVD drive over time rendering them unusable.

From wiki I read that it would serve as a security weakness making the PC more vulnerable to exploit and introducing operating system instability.


Now my question is,

has any of those changed now with their version 5?:hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

I have no clue. I never had any problems when I was running the original version of SH3, but a lot of people did. I currently don't have it on my computer (as far as I know) but I think I would now avoid any version of it, just 'cause.

[kiwi_2005]

What latest game run Starforce I thought SF had died out. Its back!

[Castout]

Theater of War 2 and now 3, Blackshark, Lock on Flaming Cliffs 2(the old lock on but released again). Well only Russian games now use Starforce.

My two previous DVD drive on my previous rig died because of starforce.

I've since avoid installing any game that comes with it.

Well for Theater of War I guess you can always buy from steam.

[Skybird]

In its latest versions, StarForce has been changed into something less harmful, see Black Shark. It still is said to be quite effective, but I have not heared the latest versions having damaged hardware or slowed down systems. Their hidden drivers also are not as potentially threatening anymore, and the company speaks more open about it.

I hated the first versions of it and boycotted it, because I too was a victim of hardware complicatiuons and massive slowdowns. The new version that came with Black shark so far has not even mad eme raiksing an eyebrow.

About potential privacy violations I cannot comment, since I do not know.

All in all if you want the title really badly, the "risk" to go with this copy protection scheme in its modern incarnation can be accepted, I think. I do not love it, but I can live with it now.

One has to give it to them that SF 5.5 is probably the most effective DVD security scheme out there, it delays cracking by quite some time (which is aparamount for game releases, to protect the game during the days and weeks of market introduction).

The record of their way to intimidate critics and threaten lawsuits as well as firing staff from companies that voiced concerns over SF, and massively interfering and manipulating critical forum entries, is something that speaks against the company. They may behave a bit more civilised now, but I think they still are a bunch of gangsters. Unfortunately, their protection scheme is very effective and gives hackers a pain.

[Growler]

Here's why Staforce is bad, in my opinion.

Silent Hunter 3. Bought it, installed it, made my wife a subsim-widow for a few months. After some time, I noticed my then-desktop starting to run a little... differently. No biggie. Time for a backup, system restore, and back in business, right?

Yeah, not so much.

Starforce COMPLETELY blocked write access to my DVD-ROM and CD-ROM writers. No getting around it. No backup feasibly possible.

OK, common story, everyone's had Starforce issues, I know that.

Here's the sad part: I never checked my copy of Pacific Fighters for Starforce - I just assumed that, because it was an Ubi game and roughly contemporary, it too must have that POS Starforce, and was therefore not going to be installed once I got my computer running again; went ahead and donated the copy I had to Goodwill.

I missed a GREAT GAME because I didn't check. Which brings me to my point: In this, I behaved like a typical, nonthinking customer, and because I drew conclusions without backing those conclusions with facts, I missed out on a great game. Starforce left such a bad impression that, based on an erroneous conclusion, I still avoided it like I would a SARS-filled elevator. Customers can - and do - make those levels of emotional free-association decisions every day.

I'm not suggesting that I'm not culpable for missing out on PF; what I am suggesting is, that in the volatile world that is software and business, a bad impression can have longer-lasting ramifications than are readily apparent. I refuse to buy a Starforce protected game today.

Copy protection that punishes a legitimate user is pure bollocks.

(The opposite, by the way, also holds true: I played a ton of MicroProse games back in the day, because the CP was easy to use. I also read labels more diligently now.)

[Jimbuna]

Had it on my old system for a short while then on reading of problems by other gamers I immediately took it out of my system and will never touch anything that contains it again.

[Skybird]

Growler, you mentioned SH3 - but the SF StarForce 3 "Pro" version back then is very different from the actual versions 5.5 and 5.7 StarForce "FrontLine".

SF3 prohibited the use of optical SCSI drives and emulators. As far as I know, at least the drives are not effected anymore since version 4.

Versions before 4 were not Windows certified, one must assume that Microsoft was aware of serious incompatabilities.

The drivers they use today still need to be manually installed, offer Ring 0 access - which means a critical secuzrity risk since they can be chnaged by a user even if not havfing administrator rights, and will be loaded when you boot the system, adding a bit to booting time. However, since version 5 in no way they cause as much obvious trouble for the user anymore like they used to with version 3.5 and earlier, which were used years ago for games like SH3.

One rwally should not judge the actual versions of SF by the problems earlier versions from 5 and 6 years ago have caused. I hated SF myself after bad experiences with it. But today using the new version with BlackShark, I see no noticable effects from it.

I warn however to use the older versions of SF. Especially when running a 64 Bit modern Windiws version. to use version 4 and even more: version 3, is really no good idea, I would say.

The main problem remaining is the Ring 0 access, imo. It is a potential exploit.

Edit, lets face it, people will always complain if they have to pay for games, and thus they will always find excuses to speak out against copy protection. It may be a simple CD check, it may be a dongle, it may be a password form a manual, it may be SF - they will alwqays balk and bite and call for a debate on much more profound rights and constitutional rules. Heck, in the past I even did it myself - and I did not even run copied games. That companies have any interest there is to delay the cracking of games, most people are not willing to reflect on, and accepting the consequence of protection measures. Even demanding them to plug in a dongle, already is asking to much of them. Some developers argue with split tongues, and developers of software proection often do the same, especially Sony (SecuRom), and StarForce. But this does not change the fact that they are confronted with a gaming community that is as split-tongued and hypocritical as the companies themselves.

[Castout]

The drivers they use today still need to be manually installed, offer Ring 0 access - which means a critical secuzrity risk since they can be chnaged by a user even if not havfing administrator rights, and will be loaded when you boot the system, adding a bit to booting time.




The main problem remaining is the Ring 0 access, imo. It is a potential exploit.


That alone is enough reason for me to avoid starforce version 5.





Well I can live with dongle in SB Pro PE, I can live with steam even like it but I cannot accept a copy protection that pose as a security risk to my system :DL

[FIREWALL]

I never had a problem with SH3\SF and my friend is still useind my old Liteon dvd burner. I got it just before SH3 was released.

Have the Encore version of SH3 now. :DL

[TorpX]

All these horror stories about 'Starforce' have me worried. How can you tell which version of SHIII you have?

[nikimcbee]

Funny SF story. Enigma RT had SF on it and the company swore by it on how great it was:haha:, until all the " I won't by ERT with SF on it" threads started to blossom. Then there was magically a removal tool.:haha: People do listen if you threaten their bottom line.

[Skybird]

All these horror stories about 'Starforce' have me worried. How can you tell which version of SHIII you have?


Starforce 3 for SH3 was installed separately, after the game was installed. It either started a second installation process after the first, or it even rebooted, I do noit remember (but believe the latter). Don't allow that! You can safely interrupt at this point, no SF drivers will have been installed until here. Thje installed game will not run without the SF drivers, so deinstall the game and get a new copy for smile price, 5 bucks or below. The re-releases of SH3 since a couple of years are all SF-free. Don't get tricked by somebody selling a surviving sealed copy of the very first release versions.

[Skybird]

Funny SF story. Enigma RT had SF on it and the company swore by it on how great it was:haha:, until all the " I won't by ERT with SF on it" threads started to blossom. Then there was magically a removal tool.:haha: People do listen if you threaten their bottom line.
Problem was the removal tools they published were not always worked reliably for everybody. It's better to never ever allow SF3 touching your HD, than to install it for testing, and then trying to remove it.

I had an electronic dictionary software that came with SF as well several years ago, Langenscheidt-Collins. People boycotted it to a degree that the publisher published a "patch" from which to install the dictionary (not doing it from CD anymore), and then copy over the vocabulary from CD. That way, SF was avoided already at installation. It worked.

[Jimbuna]

All these horror stories about 'Starforce' have me worried. How can you tell which version of SHIII you have?


Here is a UK based version without SF:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Silent-Hunter-III-PC-DVD/dp/B000FUCGDY