Calling all SH4 Superstars -- The Navy needs your help

[I'm goin' down]

Navy recruits gamers to help in piracy strategy


WASHINGTON (AFP) ---8211; The US Navy is turning to the wisdom of the crowd to forge military strategy, inviting the public to join an online game in which Somali pirates have hijacked commercial ships.

The Office of Naval Research plans this month to launch the US military's first online war game to draw on the ideas of thousands of people instead of the traditional strategy session held inside the Pentagon's offices.

The approach "is designed to produce ideas and potential solutions to our toughest problems and challenges," Lawrence Schuette, director of innovation at Office of Naval Research, told AFP.

"Piracy off the Horn of Africa has been an enduring problem that has many stakeholders. We selected this topic for the pilot scenario," Schuette said.

The scheduled starting date for the project had to be delayed by a month as about 9,000 people have signed up, instead of the 1,000 that planners expected, officials said.

The Navy hopes the project will take advantage of a wide range of expertise not only from military officers but also academics, politicians and technology specialists, he said.

"The hope is that via collective intelligence and the wisdom of many -- we?ll be able to have a conversation about a tough, geopolitical problem and come up with solutions that would?ve never occurred to us," he said.

The game will have three rounds over three weeks, with players in the first stage faced with a piracy scenario and asked to propose brief, Twitter-length solutions.

Players will be presented with boxes labeled, "Innovate" and "Defend," with questions such as: "What new resources could turn the tide in the Somali pirate situation?"

In the second round, there are more scenarios to grapple with and then in the third, players are grouped in teams and will come up with a more detailed "action plan."

"In the action plan you?ll be awarded innovation points and allowed to add more text and illustrations to your original idea," Schuette said.

The precise details of the war game scenarios are being kept under wraps for the moment by the game designers, the Institute for the Future, a non-profit group based in Palo Alto, California.

In true Pentagon fashion, the gaming platform has an unwieldy name, the Massively Multiplayer Online Wargame Leveraging the Internet, or MMOWGLI.

(For starters, aaronblood should send them MOBO!)

[Anthony W.]

Link?

Also - I have a strategy! Sail an Iowa class BB over there and point all the guns at a single tiny ship. If they don't surrender - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsNlmiLJGIw&feature=related

[magic452]

The better solution may well be to point the guns at Somalia.
Next ship that gets hijacked, start shooting. :know: :yeah:
Not really a good solution.

Magic

[Platapus]

Convoys.

Even a small warship can defend against these pirates.

[magic452]

The problem with convoys is that they would be very time consuming and expensive. Till the pirate thing starts costing more money than is currently I don't think you'll see them, unless all the shipping companies pool there resources. There is no doubt they would be effective.

Magic

On second though, there must be some old medium freighters in mothballs or something.
Outfit them as Q ships with combat trained crews. Just have them sail around the area and be targets.
Let the pirates come aboard and take them on. The pirates won't know what is a Q or not.
If you can capture or kill a number of them they might start to rethink the situation.
This may have been discussed before but I don't remember it.

[Daniel Prates]

Will this open game be a naval sim, or a first-person shooter sim? The somali pirates thing is clearly the work for spec-ops teams. What could naval-warfare related minds sugest to help? Firing upon a hidjacked ship full of innocent passangers? :rock:

[I'm goin' down]

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5ipRY7pMfD8r6wsNQMyxLoueJFuTA?docId=CNG.33922 3ab5436ba3fa84923908500ee61.1b1--The article was posted today.

The point is that some of our superior gamers might find this right up their alley. I once hid in an enemy boat slip to avoid dds in TMO, so I am sure others have imaginative input they could offer up when the site is operating.

[Mush Martin]

Sea control is for carriers not frigates, sea denial is for submarines
not frigates. Hey what do frigates do ?.(kidding)

[I'm goin' down]

The somali pirates thing is clearly the work for spec-ops teams. What could naval-warfare related minds sugest to help? Firing upon a hidjacked ship full of innocent passangers? :rock:

Great point, he remarked saracastically. :stare: You will have a great future counting change at the hot dog concession at a major league baseball stadium--they count very methodically and really, really slowly.

[Rockin Robbins]

I have to agree. The only way to deter pirates is to kill them individually, surgically and in as violent a means as possible. If they know they will die, they will stop.

Now shooting at the mother ships and the speedboats could well be a naval scenario. Because then you can be a bit less surgical in that you are not targeting individual people. So the spec-ops people would have one mission--rescuing already boarded ships. And the naval forces would target the mother ships and speedboats.

[Stealhead]

You guys are forgetting all the local innocent small boats out there that the pirates try to blend in as.This is why they have all the ships and planes and choppers out looking then when they find something they have to send a Navy,Marine,or Coast Guard boarding team(not Spec Ops though the boarders are trained they are not in most cases Spec Ops the Spec OPs would be good for Rockins scenario) to check out the vessel if they are legit and have no weapons they are free to go about their day if they are bad guys they get detained and the little boats get sunk by gunfire.

The complex nature of the situation must be why they are doing this program if it was as easy as some of your posts they'd have done it by now. Clearly there are many maritime laws as well as LOAC rules in play here.

Link to the "game":http://mmowgli.nps.edu/mmowgli

You give them your e-mail and they let you know when its ready it seems...by the way First on Subsim to sign up!!!!!! Ha ha suckers :rock:

sorry could not resist.:yeah:

I had to search all of the ONR site:http://www.onr.navy.mil/ to find that they had no link so I Googled mmowgli to find it how inconspicuous.

Would you like to play a game? (WarGames reference)

[I'm goin' down]

First on Subsim to sign up!!!!!! Ha ha suckers :rock:

sorry could not resist.:yeah:

:zzz:

[Stealhead]

Hey just having a little fun.

It is a really good idea though the "war game" there is name for this type of thinking process I forget what they call it they did the same thing when trying to figured a way to get Apollo 13 back.

[I'm goin' down]

subsim--mate

pirate--matey

[Daniel Prates]

Great point, he remarked saracastically. :stare: You will have a great future counting change at the hot dog concession at a major league baseball stadium--they count very methodically and really, really slowly.

Ouch.

[Drednots]

"bounty hunters" if you will. Private mercenaries on the seas that are contracted out by either governments (laying out the rules of engagement for them and or weapons used etc, whatever) or the shipping companies. In colonial times this was a popular and most cost effective choice to protect shipments from pirates. The costs involved when you assign a government's navy is too high.

[Mush Martin]

Yeah as I recall blackwater is supposedly operating a privateer frigate
in the gulf of oman, do you suppose she is carrying letters of marques and reprisal
from the queen of america ?

:cool:

[Stealhead]

I do believe that there are already some PMCs already working for various shipping companies.The issue is that international maritime laws are very strict about the carrying of weapons by ships that are not acting as vessels of a nations naval forces they must be naval forces not contractors.So the PMCs have rather limited options they can only use less than lethal means to discourage the pirates.If Blackwater has it own vessels they are going to limited in what the can do.

I rather doubt that modern nations would have the desire to use the old time system that was used back then.And in effect those guys where not being employed to protect ships from pirates they themselves where being allowed to commit piracy against certain other nations merchant vessels they where legalized at least by the employing nation.

[Anthony W.]

It doesn't take too much of a brain to operate Ma Deuce on a BASIC level. Load. Point. Shoot.

Start mounting them.

[Stealhead]

You cant that is the whole issue it is illegal for any non naval vessel to be armed in international waters every nation on earth agrees with this and it this way for logical reasons.
Do you know anyone with a captains license? They will tell you the same thing civilian ships can not be armed then comes the whole issue of different nations ports many of them ban all weapons at best you only have small arms like handguns and rifles(sort of) which makes you outgunned because the pirates have light machine guns like PKMs and they have RPGs you'd need the type of fire power that is not allowed to have a chance if you tried to fend them off with deadly force an M2 is not a legal weapon for a merchant vessel.



Have you ever fired an M2? Have you ever fired one on the high seas? I doubt that you have because if had you'd not say that they are so easy to use.It is a very loud weapon and I even saw other folks in the military be rather nervous when firing it the first few times. The M2 is too complex for a lay person to use with any effect hell they'd sit there all day trying to get it to fire after only cocking the thing once when you need to rack the handle twice I bet.No firearm is as simple as point and shoot to use with any effect.That may be true when the person is 3 feet away but not for a speed boat shooting at a person with no training being nervous and trying to hit a boat on the high seas.



(http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/interconv.html)

[TheAbyss]

Preaching to the ... .

Mount some M2s on all boats (2 per boat to get adequate coverage), train a few crewmen to use and maintain said M2s as a secondary job (no more than a weekend of training will get you up to speed). No need for expensive PMCs.

So simple.

[Mush Martin]

You cant that is the whole issue it is illegal for any non naval vessel to be armed in international waters every nation on earth agrees with this and it this way for logical reasons.
Do you know anyone with a captains license? They will tell you the same thing civilian ships can not be armed then comes the whole issue of different nations ports many of them ban all weapons at best you only have small arms like handguns and rifles(sort of) which makes you outgunned because the pirates have light machine guns like PKMs and they have RPGs you'd need the type of fire power that is not allowed to have a chance if you tried to fend them off with deadly force an M2 is not a legal weapon for a merchant vessel.



Have you ever fired an M2? Have you ever fired one on the high seas? I doubt that you have because if had you'd not say that they are so easy to use.It is a very loud weapon and I even saw other folks in the military be rather nervous when firing it the first few times. The M2 is too complex for a lay person to use with any effect hell they'd sit there all day trying to get it to fire after only cocking the thing once when you need to rack the handle twice I bet.No firearm is as simple as point and shoot to use with any effect.That may be true when the person is 3 feet away but not for a speed boat shooting at a person with no training being nervous and trying to hit a boat on the high seas.



(http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/interconv.html)


The argument goes something like this, an M2 on a large vessel
can only be perceived as a defensive weapon, with really no
significant offensive potential.

To my mind though the thing to do is deploy "home navy" "gun crews" aboard home flagged shipping. Like during the convoy days.

Its cheaper than supporting a patrol sqdrn abroad and
really probably more deterring if done right.

Just my thoughts.
M

[Stealhead]

It will still not fly with international maritime laws if they thought that was a good idea they'd have already done it anyway and they have not.

I dont think that the use of military gun crews on a merchant ship is legal either unless during a time of war.

Also even if you could mount just say 2 heavy machine guns then the pirates would just up the game and use more boats them selves.

A system that is legal that has worked well is the use of those noise making machines they have a range greater than most small arms and are so loud that they discourage attack.

Obviously they seek out the softest target if they get near one ship and they fire warning shots or use some other from of deterrent then the pirates simply leave and find a softer target.

Anyway there is not much point in me saying more really you guys want to daydream that mounting a few MGs and then giving some dude a small amount of training on it is simply nonsense why are they going to risk their life using a weapon when they can choose not to and take there chances that the pirates will only rob the ship.Militray men have the will to fight a merchant man has the will to make money as soon as the ---- hits the fan he will be finding a good hiding spot and wait for the SEALs to come and save him.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Well, I really haven't put a lot of thought into it but, I say we fight fire with fire. The pirates launch skiffs from a mother-ship? I say we commission a new class of armored FPT boats, maybe with a TOW missle launcher, a minigun and a Bushman 30mm cannon, yeah that ought to do it. Then, send three or four of them out from one of our own (newly commissioned) mother-ships to draw their fire. Once they fire at US, we obliterate them.:D
They haven't technically declared war, so why should we? We can call it, hmmm let me think here, this may take some imagination. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-think004.gifOoh, I know. We can call it a "Limited Engagement".http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-music037.gif

[I'm goin' down]

Let's dangle Penelope Cruz on the bow. We win!

[Anthony W.]

Aircraft carriers are considered US territory no matter where they are, right?. Consider the ships and anywhere within 500 yards of it while in international waters US territory and open fire in defense of federal law. Have other countries do the same.

Give the crew flashbangs?

How about that experimental directed energy sound weapon?

[TheAbyss]

The pirates utilize all the heavy weapons they can muster (it doesn't get heavier for a speedboat in that part of the world, barring self-guided derka derka suicide boats, but that's not their aim); RPG-7s (70mm and up), RRs (usually 73mm and up), DShKs (12.7mm HMG) and various small arms -- none of these can do much against a merchant vessel.

However, put several bursts of 12.7mm of API on a speedboat and that's all she wrote.

The Spaniards [and everyone else] of the past are crying at the yellow-belly nature of current international shipping.

[clayp]

You know this really piss's me off!!!!! The mightest country on the planet and they have to ask what to do....We can crush them,we can crush their dam country..Just do it..We can also crush pakistan and the rest of the stans!!!!!! Do it...Just do it once and for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Daniel Prates]

The Spaniards [and everyone else] of the past are crying at the yellow-belly nature of current international shipping.

Oh yeah, bring back the Jack Sparrows of the past to deal with those somalis.

[deceptiboat]

You know this really piss's me off!!!!! The mightest country on the planet and they have to ask what to do....We can crush them,we can crush their dam country..Just do it..We can also crush pakistan and the rest of the stans!!!!!! Do it...Just do it once and for all!!!!!!!!!!!!!

but even the mightiest country on the planet can't withstand the combined forces of the rest of the world. Think before you do anything, or you will regret for what you've done

[Stealhead]

Ha ha I have a feeling that this thread is heading for outer space soon.:D

[TheAbyss]

Nah, photon torpedoes are a waste to use on speedboats.

[Daniel Prates]

Considering all I read in this thread, I still think that dealing with somali pirates is a job for special forces, regardless of how they are carried or brought in.

There is this very apelative new movie, "the mercenaries" (shot in my very onw Brasil), with stallone, statham, dolf lundgreen and other butch caracters like so. The movie begins with an assault on a pirate-held ship. Needless to say, they KICK ASS. Maybe stallone should teach the USN a couple of tricks.

BTW, rumors say that stallone left a multi-million dollar debt in Brasil, shafting some producing companies. Who knows?

[Anthony W.]

I still say we should make boom boom with big gun and go blasting away

[TBear]

its not simple, and it will end up on cost vs security....

Convoys are the best option, but the most expencive for the merchants..

War ship heavy patrolls are to costly for the participants..

Then there is the armed guards, but it have to be official millitary or it can easely end up in another blackwater scandal..

Personaly i think more on the merchant ships them selfs, how to add "security" packs to the ship, electrical fence, movement guided watercannons, special doors and locks....create safe compartments where there is a pirate controll when pressed it wil send signal to closest war ship, they ping back and the merchant automaticly sets a heading towards the war ship while crew are safe in the "security" area....

Biggest problem is time for any war ship to react, but if they know the crew are safe, the ship heads towards them it is werry easy to guide a chopper towards the merchant....

so a system that creates active barriers and deffences around the ship, combined with a "crew bunker" and a active alert / autopilot signal is proberbly the cheapest and most effective way.....

[WernherVonTrapp]

This is a scenario where the Q-Ship might actually prevail.:hmmm:

[Daniel Prates]

Personaly i think more on the merchant ships them selfs, how to add "security" packs to the ship, electrical fence, movement guided watercannons, special doors and locks....create safe compartments where there is a pirate controll when pressed it wil send signal to closest war ship, they ping back and the merchant automaticly sets a heading towards the war ship while crew are safe in the "security" area....

I think those pirates aproach with speedboats, and threaten to sink the pray with bazookas or other heavy personal weapons. So either the prey complies or gets sunk. So passive defense measures may not be the way.

I however see no ilicit sides on hiring mercenaries to escort the ship on their own armed speedboats, or even be inside to fight them off. Problem would be that the pirates would simply avoid those and follow up to un-escorted merchants.

The truth of the matter is that only a strong government action can prevent piracy, and in a country were government is almost non-existant, this kind of thing is bound to be unaboidable.

[TBear]

I think those pirates aproach with speedboats, and threaten to sink the pray with bazookas or other heavy personal weapons. So either the prey complies or gets sunk. So passive defense measures may not be the way.

I however see no ilicit sides on hiring mercenaries to escort the ship on their own armed speedboats, or even be inside to fight them off. Problem would be that the pirates would simply avoid those and follow up to un-escorted merchants.

The truth of the matter is that only a strong government action can prevent piracy, and in a country were government is almost non-existant, this kind of thing is bound to be unaboidable.

Personaly i think that the pirates will avoid trying to sink the ship since they cross a line. Right now the price is money for persons, but if they sink a 500mil $ ship things will change and the global opinion would change from passive to werry active, and would proberbly end up in a shoot on sight.

No one can protect all ships in a area the size of texas, but there is one solution that deffently would have an impact, hunt them down and hang them, just as the main countrys did in the 17th and 18th century, only so many persons will try the trade if they know there is only one outcome.