The 40mm AA gun

[Daniel Prates]

My only question: is it any good against merchants?

[WernherVonTrapp]

That depends on what version/mod you're using. In stock, I could sink whole merchants with one. The mods bring it down to a more realistic level. The 40mm Bofors was a devastating round, being about 1.57 inches in diameter, HE and fired at high velocity. Anyone who has worked in plumbing can comparatively appreciate the girth of the round with a 1.5" piece of pipe.
My experience in SHIV has been that it works well against very small merchants (Fishing Boats, Sampans, Junks, etc.) and when combined with the DG, can do some supplementary justice to larger targets. I wouldn't try going solo with it in sinking anything large.

[Anthony W.]

Using HE rounds vs a small or mid sized merchant (assuming it doesn't have deck guns) isn't a half bad option if you don't want to waste torpedoes or deck gun shells. I've had great luck with it, although I much prefer just about any other method of attack.

TMO 2.1, RSRD

In the thick fog I ran into a ship. Literally - we were pressed against each other - and I was too low for her to train her guns. I was out of deck gun rounds - so I just went merrily blasting away. She didn't sink, but her engines were done and I was able to position for a torpedo launch.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Using HE rounds vs a small or mid sized merchant (assuming it doesn't have deck guns) isn't a half bad option if you don't want to waste torpedoes or deck gun shells. I've had great luck with it, although I much prefer just about any other method of attack.

TMO 2.1, RSRD

In the thick fog I ran into a ship. Literally - we were pressed against each other - and I was too low for her to train her guns. I was out of deck gun rounds - so I just went merrily blasting away. She didn't sink, but her engines were done and I was able to position for a torpedo launch.Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that range does seem to have an effect on the round's capability. When you mentioned heavy fog, it reminded me of a similar "close-up" encounter I had.:03:

[Daniel Prates]

I'm running TMO right now.

Tanks from the early war (say, 1939/1940) would carry 37mm cannons, so that is a fair compairson. They were also packed with high-velocity guns, which makes a difference in terms of armor penetration.

How thick would you say is a merchan'ts hull?

[Anthony W.]

How thick would you say is a merchan'ts hull

Not even a half inch. There is no doubt it can get through - the question is whether or not it can wreak enough havoc once it does.

And remember - they still use the Bofors on AC-130 gunships. An updated version, but still the same breach, loading mechanism, and a lot of other components. Its a tank killer. They used twin 20mm Hispano Suiza HS.404 cannons firing high velocity explosive and armor piercing rounds in the tank busting variant of the Hawker Hurricane

That round is of great use but it does the most damage when its bouncing around in a confined space.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hispano-Suiza_HS.404

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bofors_40_mm

[Daniel Prates]

Some guns, eh? The oerklion is still at use today, too.

[Anthony W.]

Some guns, eh? The oerklion is still at use today, too.

And the legendary Ma Deuce (Browning M2 50 cal - always a favorite)

[Daniel Prates]

Yeah, the browning .50

In internal view, you see two of them lodged inside the conning tower!

[Aviv]

I've been able to destroy ships with that gun too. Not sure if I was with TMO or not. I only used it as a emergency really.

I heard the Browning 50. was used as a sniper in Vietnam, and could shoot for a few Kilometers.

In the conning tower of the U-boats there's two MG-42s as well. I wonder what these guns should be for.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I heard the Browning 50. was used as a sniper in Vietnam, and could shoot for a few Kilometers.

It's still used as a sniper rifle today and has been used to great effect in Afghanistan. Some targets having been over a mile away. Just saw a show about it (.50 cal Sniper Rifle) on the Military Channel.:03:

[Stealhead]

The Bofors and the Oerklion that are in game are not used by modern armed forces anymore though both companies still make modern weapons.I know the main reason that the 40mm fell by the wayside was simply age of the guns themselves(in the US military) My step dad was a sensors operator on AC-130s back in the early 70's in later half of Vietnam he said that they where using old WWII stock for the 40mms and it was not uncommon for the rounds to jam or be duds and not explode when they hit the ground/some object.

Nowadays chain guns are the name the game of the game and in many cases smaller rounds are used but technology actually makes them more deadly than older larger ones.Even the AC-130s are getting a single 30mm Bushmaster chain gun in place of the old set up of 2 40mms.

On WWII subs most of the guns where used against surface targets and almost never against planes because trying to fight them is really suicide when you can dive to avoid them.Fleet boats ended carrying 1 40mm two or 3 20mm and 2 to 4 M2 .50cals these where all used to attack surface vessels and where very effective for suppressive fire and the 40mm could kill smaller targets in its own right.

In game you can use the 40mm against small vessels like Sampans I have killed them with the 40mm at 3,000 yds with only about 8 rounds hitting more of course to line the sights but 8 shells hitting target this is with TMO 2.1

Couple of links

best clip of the old 40mm in an AC-130 soon to be replaced with a 30mm Bushmaster:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VjJC4vL_0HA

Neat clip of a more modern but still clip(larger) feed 40mm Bofors in the AA role looks like some time in the 80s:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlfLwQEBU-I&feature=related

An old WWII 20mm just like on your boats:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=muDj4HT767Y

A modern 30mm chain gun Oerklion this type of cannon are used for close range anti ship rather than anti air today clearly much more effective than a 60 round drum:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joE_L5gPPgI&feature=related

pic of 40mm Bofors shells as you can see the ones in game are a bit too large click the 3rd pic:http://www.keywordpicture.com/keyword/40mm%20shells/

down the barrel:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni83_Hx7nYQ&feature=related

Modern Oerklon say bye bye to a pirate vessel:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBOUZg0nOQ&feature=related

@ VonTrapp he was talking about a M2 .50 being modified to fire single rounds and mounting a scope and being used as a sniper(I think only one Marine sniper had this done for a specific target) you are thinking of the M82 Barret which is a purpose built .50 rifle not the same thing but they do use the same .50BMG caliber.The M82 was not designed until the 1980s and the M2 is still in use as a heavy MG being designed in 1921.

[Daniel Prates]

Great info, stealhead.

[WernherVonTrapp]

@ VonTrapp he was talking about a M2 .50 being modified to fire single rounds and mounting a scope and being used as a sniper(I think only one Marine sniper had this done for a specific target) you are thinking of the M82 Barret which is a purpose built .50 rifle not the same thing but they do use the same .50BMG caliber.The M82 was not designed until the 1980s and the M2 is still in use as a heavy MG being designed in 1921.Yeah, my bad. I thought he was speaking of the .50cal in general, not the specific gun.:yeah:

[Stealhead]

Well it can be confusing to be honest for example for some reason the military calls the M82 the M107 now even though it is the same basic weapon.

[Platapus]

I'm running TMO right now.

Tanks from the early war (say, 1939/1940) would carry 37mm cannons, so that is a fair compairson.


Well not really. The 40mm and 37mm rounds can only compare due to the diameter of the projectile, but not much past that.

The 40mm round (MkIIT) contained about 59 grams of explosive
The 37mm Round (M63) contained 39 grams of explosive

The 40mm round had a muzzle velocity of 868 meters per second
The 37mm round had a muzzle velocity of 785 meters per second

The 40mm projectile weighed 907 grams
The 37mm projectile weighed 331 grams

The 40mm had an armour penetration of about 25mm
The 37mm had an armour penetration of about 25mm (the M63 was not the optimum AP 37mm round) 37mm AP rounds were solid rounds with no explosive.

Any numbers about armour penetration is HIGHLY dependent on armour type, range, and angle of impact so they can only be used as a VERY approximate figure.

Sources

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/37_mm_Gun_M3#Ammunition
http://www.wwiiequipment.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84:bofors-40mm-anti-aircraft-gun&catid=41:anti-aircraft&Itemid=58

[Patrick_Hillary]

Gunnery Sargent Carlos Hathcock used a scope mounter .5 browing M2 in Vietnam, Peoples Republic of, to devesating effect. I believe that the 40mm and 20mm were used to supress enemy deck gun crews while the 4 inch dealt the damage. Good hunting.

[Daniel Prates]

Well not really. (...) Any numbers about armour penetration is HIGHLY dependent on armour type, range, and angle of impact so they can only be used as a VERY approximate figure.

Fair enough. But I only meant "roughly". It should be added that since the 40mm was intended as an anti-air gun, it's HE shells cannot compare to tank HE shells, and even less compare to tank AP shells. There are othee issues too, such as the projectile/propelant ratio, which makes all the difference since it is purpose-related. Tank ammo (AP) was intended to have an as high as possible muzzle velocity, for penetration reasons, which is not the case with the 40mm either.