Mid 1943 onwards

[Obersteuermann]

So I've just lost yet another career in mid-43. Pootling along the west coast of Africa, happy as Larry, when I stumbled upon a task force - HMS Howe and HMS Illustrious - escorted by more destroyers than I've ever seen in one place before. Just about managed to get one hit on Lusty before we crash dived - cut a long story short, after four hours of depth charges smashed virtually everything smashable on the boat she just wouldn't maintain forward speed and the pressure got her around 290 metres. Shame really, U-93 had the strongest hull of any boat I've had so far; I could happily take her down to 260 metres without any worries.

I know that in real life U-boat losses went through the roof in mid-43 and clearly GWX models this sudden boost in the escorts' skills. My question is, as the old tactics (run silent, run as deep as you dare, 10-15 degree turns every 2 minutes) clearly no longer work at that point, what do (can) you do?

Any novel ideas on escort-dodging?

[krashkart]

Stay in port. :DL

[Randomizer]

What can you do? Congratulations, you have met GWX's late war enemy. Realize that, like Clay Blair writes, you are now the hunted and you have to start thinking like prey rather than predator.

Virtually all my GWX patrols are post Black May, usually in the final year of the war and while careers tend to be short and end violently, the challenges are huge as is the satisfaction of just surviving 6-weeks in the Atlantic and returning to port.

In my opinion, the toughest period is late 1943 through to summer of '44; the opposition is brutal and your snorkel is generally not yet available. Some common sense suggestions:

- Convoys should only be engaged under the most favourable conditions and FAT's are your friends. Long range FAT salvoes into a convoy can often yield one or two hits and with patience and a bit of luck you can pick off the cripples after the convoy moves out of detection range. FAT's can be tricky to program so you might want to build a training scenario and practice until comfortable shooting pattern-running torpedoes at an entire convoy rather than straight-runners at a single ship.

- Warship groups should be avoided. Think of yourself as a barely mobile minefield. Where possible, put your boat in a position where the targets come to you. Be prepared to let juicey targets escape unless your goal is suicide by escort.

- There will be opportunities but choose them carefully. If you cannot see a way out before the attack, break off while still undetected.

- Consider modding the renown to give credit for reaching your patrol area and returning to port. Just surviving would draw favourable attention from the high and the mighty.

- Forget your stern tube(s). As soon as you can get acoustic torpedoes, put them in the after tubes and use only for defence. Get used to the idea of coming home with torpedoes on board.

- Avoid aircraft at all costs. You may get lucky but you're more likely to get sunk.

Most important, have fun and Good Hunting.

Edit
Late war high TC at any time can really get you killed in a hurry. Using any significant TC while being hunted as always a bad idea in SH3 but with the deadly late-war escorts it just gets you destroyed that much sooner.

[Fish In The Water]

I know that in real life U-boat losses went through the roof in mid-43 and clearly GWX models this sudden boost in the escorts' skills. My question is, as the old tactics (run silent, run as deep as you dare, 10-15 degree turns every 2 minutes) clearly no longer work at that point, what do (can) you do?

You can always roll the escort capability back to somewhere in between stock and GWX...

Granted 30 out of 40 thousand never made it home, but by my math that's still a 25% survival rate whereas GWX seems to be discernibly less than that. As much as I enjoy GWX, (and I truly do), it's still a game and for my taste I'd like to have at least a historical chance of getting out of it alive.

[Snestorm]

If I knew the answer for sure, SH3 would soon become dull.

It sure is challenging to look for it though.

[RGA]

I believe the main point for destroyer evasion is showing yourself as smallest target as possible. The more you expose yourself, the easier for destroyer to find you. Normally, right after shooting torpedos, I try to guess the coming direction of escorts and move away exactly in this direction. By doing so, when destroyers come to my original place where torpedos were shot, they would have hard time pinging only my stern.
And sometimes I ask myself which is better: go in straight line which gives you maximum speed, or zig-zag and slow down your boat. There is always compromise that you must make.

[Jimbuna]

What can you do? Congratulations, you have met GWX's late war enemy. Realize that, like Clay Blair writes, you are now the hunted and you have to start thinking like prey rather than predator.

Virtually all my GWX patrols are post Black May, usually in the final year of the war and while careers tend to be short and end violently, the challenges are huge as is the satisfaction of just surviving 6-weeks in the Atlantic and returning to port.

In my opinion, the toughest period is late 1943 through to summer of '44; the opposition is brutal and your snorkel is generally not yet available. Some common sense suggestions:

- Convoys should only be engaged under the most favourable conditions and FAT's are your friends. Long range FAT salvoes into a convoy can often yield one or two hits and with patience and a bit of luck you can pick off the cripples after the convoy moves out of detection range. FAT's can be tricky to program so you might want to build a training scenario and practice until comfortable shooting pattern-running torpedoes at an entire convoy rather than straight-runners at a single ship.

- Warship groups should be avoided. Think of yourself as a barely mobile minefield. Where possible, put your boat in a position where the targets come to you. Be prepared to let juicey targets escape unless your goal is suicide by escort.

- There will be opportunities but choose them carefully. If you cannot see a way out before the attack, break off while still undetected.

- Consider modding the renown to give credit for reaching your patrol area and returning to port. Just surviving would draw favourable attention from the high and the mighty.

- Forget your stern tube(s). As soon as you can get acoustic torpedoes, put them in the after tubes and use only for defence. Get used to the idea of coming home with torpedoes on board.

- Avoid aircraft at all costs. You may get lucky but you're more likely to get sunk.

Most important, have fun and Good Hunting.

Edit
Late war high TC at any time can really get you killed in a hurry. Using any significant TC while being hunted as always a bad idea in SH3 but with the deadly late-war escorts it just gets you destroyed that much sooner.

Crackin post http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Salvadoreno]

I am slowly approaching May 1943 in my campaign and so far i have been very lucky. I really believe a veteran crew is TANTAMoUNT to survival. I am in patrol 6 with a very experienced crew with good eyes and so far ive avoided all aircraft.

Just recently i had a run in with a small 2 ship convoy escorted by a DD, took a chance at attacking but approached the way i did in 1942 and was detected.

As i was being hunted mercilessly for hours with virtually all systems being destroyed i was getting desperate.

A few moves i did

-Brought the boat to VARIOUS depths, not just deep. At 100m i started being dc'ed i quickly brought boat to 50m. Then to 40m at another dc run. Then down to 150, then to 125, etc. etc.. Worked pretty well i avoided damage doing that

-Silent Running, then adjust to 1 knot, then present smallest target. Listen to the DD on hydrophones and figure out which what he is turning, then turn to present smallest target.

-BOLD DECOYS!!! (if you got them). If u survive a DC run quickly deploy them, then make the boat go all speed ahead, turn a few degrees, and adjust your depth +-25 meters. Go back to silent running. Hopefully he chases the decoy.

Using those moves i got away, though it was only one DD, it was a very experienced DD. I had to return to base with all tubes destroyed, hydrophones not working, everything in conning tower not working, bow planes damaged, radar gone, a stb engine not working. Ugh it was a mess. Luckily i was still able to dive and avoided aircraft on the homebound journey with my awesome crew. Patrol 7, 4 days at sea, no ships sunk, and extended overhaul or boat. (Im going to simulate 120 days in port from damaged incurred, so ill be back later in 1943). Cant wait for that patrol!:rock:

[sublynx]

Using those moves i got away

Good to hear that you got away - and you got great experience from it too! Makes it easier to try escaping the next time. :)

[Fish In The Water]

I had to return to base with all tubes destroyed, hydrophones not working, everything in conning tower not working, bow planes damaged, radar gone, a stb engine not working. Ugh it was a mess. Luckily i was still able to dive and avoided aircraft on the homebound journey with my awesome crew.

Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'...

Congrats on living to fight another day! :rock:

[Snestorm]

Sometimes it pays to figure on using the stern tube(s).

If you find yourself directly in the convoy's path you can:
1. Match their course (Not always an easy guesstimation).
2. Begin to slowly twist toward the outside by keeping the lead escort so as to always be moving toward your 180. "Follow closest warship" command works well.
By the time you are perpendicular to the convoys course, and hopefuly just outside the box, there should be a fairly safe gap between you and him.
Breaking Out of a convoy seems to be easier than Breaking In, at least for the moment.
3. Know the position and relative direction of movement for the closest escort before firing.
4. Fire. Distant target works best. Scope down.
5. Remain at silent speed. Order preferred depth.
6. Twist as required to avoid detection.
(Hearing pings upon firing does NOT mean that you've been detected.)

Keep your head as it easier, and safer, to Evade than to attempt Escape.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I hope someone can find this to be another neat trick to keep available.

[sublynx]

Sometimes it pays to figure on using the stern tube(s).

If you find yourself directly in the convoy's path you can:
1. Match their course (Not always an easy guesstimation).
2. Begin to slowly twist toward the outside by keeping the lead escort so as to always be moving toward your 180. "Follow closest warship" command works well.
By the time you are perpendicular to the convoys course, and hopefuly just outside the box, there should be a fairly safe gap between you and him.
Breaking Out of a convoy seems to be easier than Breaking In, at least for the moment.
3. Know the position and relative direction of movement for the closest escort before firing.
4. Fire. Distant target works best. Scope down.
5. Remain at silent speed. Order preferred depth.
6. Twist as required to avoid detection.
(Hearing pings upon firing does NOT mean that you've been detected.)

Keep your head as it easier, and safer, to Evade than to attempt Escape.

Nothing is guaranteed, but I hope someone can find this to be another neat trick to keep available.

This sounds like a tactic I will definately be trying :rock:

Thanks for the hint!