Illegal to talk to a Police Officer?

[Feuer Frei!]

If you have an Android phone or an iPhone, install Qik. It streams your video over 3G to a remote server where people can watch it in realtime, as well as gives you a remote storage of the video that the officer cannot interfere with in the event that they try to confiscate your phone (there have been plenty of cases where officers were caught destroying cell phones that people used to record video with). Qik or any similar app that will stream your video in realtime to a remote server is essential for proper police interactions.
If you're pulled over, start recording immediately. When they get to your car, ask them if they have any objections to you creating a backup video recording of your interactions to protect both yourself and the officer. If they object, **** it, keep recording. The only reason they would object is if they're going to do something they shouldn't be doing. There's a few states where they legally can stop you, though. Check your local laws, but most states will allow you to record the event. Even if the officer says not to.

WATCH THIS VIDEO FOR A WRONGFUL ARREST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fixVuKVK1ok&feature=player_embedded)

[Gerald]

I am not defending some bad police officers conduct, in certain situations, but police are normal people, there are those who are good and less good, just like the rest of us, the difference is obvious as they should be clear in what the law says to the citizen, so no misunderstanding may arise

[August]

WATCH THIS VIDEO FOR A WRONGFUL ARREST (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fixVuKVK1ok&feature=player_embedded)

What's so wrongful about it?

[Feuer Frei!]

What's so wrongful about it?
Well, it seems to me that 1:53 into the video, the cop and the driver were having a discussion about something when the passenger said something, and the cop retorted "you shut your mouth" which was a bit harsh, no?
Then the passenger asked "did you see it"?, with the cop arresting him.
For what?
Wrongful, in my eyes.
Don't know about you but i've met some egotistical arrogant cops but something like that isn't called for.

[August]

Well, it seems to me that 1:53 into the video, the cop and the driver were having a discussion about something when the passenger said something, and the cop retorted "you shut your mouth" which was a bit harsh, no?
Then the passenger asked "did you see it"?, with the cop arresting him.
For what?
Wrongful, in my eyes.
Don't know about you but i've met some egotistical arrogant cops but something like that isn't called for.

Well the passenger back talked the cop. Being alone and facing a potential three on one situation the cop restrained him and called for backup. I don't see that rising to the level of wrongful arrest.

[mookiemookie]

Their first mistake was to say anything at all. There are only four things you should ever say to a cop:

1. I don't know why you pulled me over.
2. I do not give you consent to search my car.
3. I have nothing more to say.
4. (if they're knocking on your door) I'd like to see a search warrant.

Anything else and you're giving them stuff to use against you.

[Gerald]

Is it that police suspect the preparation, or see what "is" about to happen, so no need for paper from a judge or similar

[Kaye T. Bai]

Was he arrested? Looked like he was being detained.

[Jimbuna]

Well the passenger back talked the cop. Being alone and facing a potential three on one situation the cop restrained him and called for backup. I don't see that rising to the level of wrongful arrest.

I tend to agree going on what I have seen on that link.

The Officer obviously knew at least one of them and as such he gave the guy the opportunity to stop his rhetoric and the guy didn't, so seeing the potential for the scenario to start escalating he took control of the situation and certainly wasn't using excessive force.

[August]

I tend to agree going on what I have seen on that link.

The Officer obviously knew at least one of them and as such he gave the guy the opportunity to stop his rhetoric and the guy didn't, so seeing the potential for the scenario to start escalating he took control of the situation and certainly wasn't using excessive force.

Yep. I think most people don't realize how quickly that kind of situation can turn violent.

[Jimbuna]

Yep. I think most people don't realize how quickly that kind of situation can turn violent.

Aye...you need to take control from the very outset and leave nobody in doubt your in control of the situation.

as soon as you get involved in an exchange of words things quickly go up a few notches and looking at the odds he more than likely carried out that early/init6ial assessment as he was approaching the vehicle.

[Stealhead]

Looks to me as though he was detained not arrested and you are supposed to follow lawful instructions that a police officer gives you the kid talked back several times and was detained.

On top of that the kid is moving around all over the place in the car which looks suspicious and is dangerous to the cop:what is he possibly hiding/reaching for?

Also good rule of thumb is to simply show proper respect you dont know if you are dealing with a professional officer or a poor one.

I have seen some dash cam clips that my brother in law who is deputy has shown me where a simple verbal situation turned violent fire fight shockingly quickly.
I notice that there are some other equally baised clips about this same areas law enforcement on youtube. in this one they are being equally disrespectful and seem to trying to cause trouble:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvV3e-iLgJw&feature=related

[Rilder]

Their first mistake was to say anything at all. There are only four things you should ever say to a cop:

1. I don't know why you pulled me over.
2. I do not give you consent to search my car.
3. I have nothing more to say.
4. (if they're knocking on your door) I'd like to see a search warrant.

Anything else and you're giving them stuff to use against you.

Police Officers: Forever Alone.

[Gerald]

There is much truth behind that statement!

[GoldenRivet]

I dont think the guy was arrested.

its my opinion that he was restrained until the business of the traffic stop was concluded and then was released back into the wild from whence he came

[Jimbuna]

I dont think the guy was arrested.

its my opinion that he was restrained until the business of the traffic stop was concluded and then was released back into the wild from whence he came

If that was the case John I sincerely hope he learned something from the experience but somehow I doubt it.

[Platapus]

As soon as the police had the right to video record what they do, I think the citizens had a right to video record what they do. :yep:

[gimpy117]

Well the passenger back talked the cop. Being alone and facing a potential three on one situation the cop restrained him and called for backup. I don't see that rising to the level of wrongful arrest.

there was no cause for the cop to yell at him though. He offended him. The cop is professional, he has no right to be barking "hey you shut your mouth". If I said that to a customer I'd be out of a job that same day. Just because he's a cop does not mean he's able to disrespect people.

[Feuer Frei!]

there was no cause for the cop to yell at him though. He offended him. The cop is professional, he has no right to be barking "hey you shut your mouth". If I said that to a customer I'd be out of a job that same day. Just because he's a cop does not mean he's able to disrespect people.
That nails it on the head.
The cops SHOULD be professional and tbh the cop lost it in the video.
Just because you're a cop, doesn't mean you can talk down to a citizen. I've seen this many many times.
So many double standards with cops.
The cop in the video was not professional, if he really did feel threatened then there are more professional and respectful ways to handle a situation.
Being a cop gives you a license to lose your cool apparently.

[Ducimus]

Seems to me, this thread is inspired by a hatred of anyone with authority, by folks who don't like being told what to do - by anybody. Most cop hatred threads are.

[Platapus]

Seems to me, this thread is inspired by a hatred of anyone with authority, by folks who don't like being told what to do - by anybody. Most cop hatred threads are.

That may be a convenient characterization for you to make, but it is hardly accurate. One can voice concerns about police activities without being a cop hater.

[GoldenRivet]

If that was the case John I sincerely hope he learned something from the experience but somehow I doubt it.

yeah - he probably didnt learn a thing.

I'm not sure, but i think the police have a right to restrain a person who is interfering with official matters or otherwise being belligerent even if a crime has not necessarily been committed. - not really placing them under arrest - but just taking them out of the equation so to speak.

then again - im no expert on the subject

[Ducimus]

Ive seen way too many of these threads. Particuarlly on fark.com. It's always about "fight the power!". Or those damn dirty cops.

If i was a cop, and some jackwagon asked me, "Mind if i video tape this?", my first thought would be, "Oh great.. one of THESE guys. Mr OMG I'm being Oppressed". My reply would probably be, "No sir, i have enough supervision on my dash game as it is. Everything is already being recorded for posterity". My wanted reply would be, "What, so you can go whine on youtube when you get home? I don't F'ing think so!".


Best way to deal with cops? Recognize they are a properly constituted authority, and theres always going to be someone who can tell you what to do in society, be it your boss at work, or law enforcement. You don't have to respect the man, but you do have to respect the position. Anyone ex military can relate to that. Comply with the directions your given, and don't back talk. Be honest, be polite, don't pop off with an attitude.

If there's a problem, just get his badge number with the date and time of the incident and bring it to the courts. All three of those bits of information will be enough. Date, time, and badge number. Back talking, being a smart ass, or in particular non complying will get you into hot water. Just don't do it, or you'll end up as the butt of a joke on the next episode of a cop reality TV show on Spike network that I like to watch so much.

[Feuer Frei!]

Seems to me, this thread is inspired by a hatred of anyone with authority, by folks who don't like being told what to do - by anybody. Most cop hatred threads are.
Far from it, the reason for this thread was not to incite and drag out of the woodworks all the cop haters on this forum.
The issue i have with cops (or persons in authority) is when that person or persons incite double standards. In this case, cops, who are meant to enforce laws and regulations, which may well have been the case here, but, in a professional and curteous manner.
Like i said, you're a cop, and you think you can talk to someone like that?
You can see it in the tone of the cop's voice that he lost his cool and that he acted without some sort of professionalism.

That may be a convenient characterization for you to make, but it is hardly accurate. One can voice concerns about police activities without being a cop hater.
Correct.
I call it pigeon-holeing.
Lumping all the people into one category.

[Ducimus]

When what Ive read , reads like every other cop hatred thread i have read, your damn right its gonna get pigeon holed.

[Platapus]

. My reply would probably be, "No sir, i have enough supervision on my dash game as it is. Everything is already being recorded for posterity".

But that's the problem the video is not recorded for posterity, it is recorded to protect the cop and to further the prosecutor's case.

I wonder how many times when the video shows something in favour of the defense or something that shows impropriety on the cop's fault that something happens to the tape?

You can't have too much evidence in a case.

This gives me a chance to reverse the oft told phrase: If the cop has done nothing wrong he or she has nothing to worry about. Right? :)

That's what the police tell us. And a cop would not lie to us. :nope:

[Ducimus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS_1bzaj2fw

[Stealhead]

You really need to see clips of Russian,Brazilian,and French Paris cops and see what they'd do the second you back talked them.Like the guy in the car he would have been grabbed and pulled out of the window and thrown on the ground for talking back like that.

I recall years back we had this Brazilian exchange student at my school and he went with and some friends to see a movie in front of the theater was a fairly heavy set cop and some kids where actually vocally mocking him though he just ignored them the Brazilian kid was shocked that the kids where doing this and seemed to have no fear of disrespecting authority."You would never see that in Brazil" he kept saying.

Generally speaking 97% of American cops are fairly decent and many give a lot of breaks when they could be much harsher legally not saying that there are not bad cops out there but they are the minority.I can recall a few times in my younger days getting away with much.Like once some squadron mates and I got hammered and decided to ride around the base on our bikes we saw a Security Police(Air Force for Military Police) car coming so we tried to ride down this trail but they had seen us.Clearly we where all drunk and could have been taken in for that and for evading but they just told us to go back to the dorms and stay out of trouble we all should have spent the weekend in the stockade according to the UCMJ.Another time a buddy and I got caught sneaking back onto base in Turkey when the base was on lock down(what can I say there where some pretty Turkish girls in town)that is a pretty serious violation and the SPs let us go Scot free in both cases I just got very very lucky that SPs that caught me felt like being lax a did not apply normal standards.I guarantee you will find far more stories of cops giving people breaks than being oppressors it is just that later type makes the news.I have tons from not so law abiding civilian old friends.

I agree that some folks out there just dont like any form of authority(until they need their aid that is) and feel cool for bucking it.Want to see what happens when the police go away? look at New Orleans hours/days post Katrina.You need some one who enforces rule of law like it or not.

By they way almost all police patrol cars in the US have cameras in them so they don't have much to hide or they'd not have them in place and they can tell when cameras have been turned off or tampered with.And you would need to have a given state,county,cities statues books to know what is an arrestable offense in that area.



@Ducimus he should have farted in his oppressors general direction to stop him.:har:

[August]

That nails it on the head.
The cops SHOULD be professional and tbh the cop lost it in the video.
Just because you're a cop, doesn't mean you can talk down to a citizen. I've seen this many many times.
So many double standards with cops.
The cop in the video was not professional, if he really did feel threatened then there are more professional and respectful ways to handle a situation.
Being a cop gives you a license to lose your cool apparently.

Being a cop doesn't make you something other than human though. Making a single strong statement does not prove, to me, that he lost his cool.

[mookiemookie]

Seems to me, this thread is inspired by a hatred of anyone with authority, by folks who don't like being told what to do - by anybody. Most cop hatred threads are.

I don't hate them, but I'm not putting my rights in jeopardy because I want to be a nice guy. There are great cops and bad cops out there, and you don't know which one you're dealing with when they stop you or come knocking on your door. That's why I take the say nothing route.

[Stealhead]

It is also very clear if you pay attention in the clip that the passenger spoke in a very disrespect towards authority manner then the cop told him shut his mouth which he kept moving displaying his intent not follow instructions.

Even when you know the cop is wrong it is wise to simply keep your mouth shut and remain calm.A good friend of mine had a bad incident where he legally pulled a gun on a man who approached him at knife point a by stander thought that my friend was the assailant not the victim and called the police in the mean time the true assailant ran away.

Two police approached and one who was not so good a cop arrested him on the spot.Lucky for my friend he remained calm and did not say much of anything in the end several witnesses and the second lower ranking good cop got the situation corrected.

[Ducimus]

Obligatory video:
How not to get your ass kicked by the police! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8)

Oh, and one thing ive always wondered about cop hatred threads, is how many people who bitch about cops, obey the law in the first place. If you watch the above video, i personally cleared in the first step.

Obey the law.

Of my own accord, ive been stopped by a cop, twice in my entire life. First was for speeding, second was out of date tags.

Of NOT of my own accord, ive been detained by the cops, twice that i can recall. Both times were not of my doing, but my drunken Ex's doing. (loud and biligerant in the first incident, lying to the cops on the second incident, and i was nowhere around, i was at home, modding SH4. ) I remained calm, polite, did as instructed, always told the truth, and both times I walked away, without a scratch, either physically or legally.

[gimpy117]

Being a cop doesn't make you something other than human though. Making a single strong statement does not prove, to me, that he lost his cool.

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.

[Ducimus]

Working as a retail clerk behind a counter, is not the same thing. As a retail clerk, your talking to the customer. Your trying to get that person to buy something from you.

A cop, is not trying to sell you anything, he is there to enforce the law. You are not a customer, you are either: the citizen let off with a warning, the signatory of a citation, or a suspect in a criminal investigation,..... but customer.... no.

[Stealhead]

You are trying to compare vastly different jobs in your line of work(and most peoples) the possibility of encountering a possibility violent person is highly un-likely the odds that a cop will is highly likely and would require them to maintain control of a situation as best as possible.All I can say is walk a mile or two in cops shoes (or more like a year or two) and see things from their perspective rather than having a most of them are big heads attitude.

If one cant take strong verbal statements/someone in authority telling you what to do explicitly all I can say is they should stay far away from the military because they would really dislike basic training and the military as whole as commands given are not to be questioned and by law the same applies to any person when a law enforcement officer is telling you to do something.Anyone who served will tell you that some superiors where good and fair and other where not but that they respected the rank and authority that their position warranted and most times extremely bad apples got dealt with in the correct manner.The same rules can be applied to civilian law enforcement.

[Feuer Frei!]

When what Ive read , reads like every other cop hatred thread i have read, your damn right its gonna get pigeon holed.
Once again, this is not intended to invite discussion on how much we (allegedly) hate cops.
Pigeon-Holeing. So you are lumping me into the group of cop haters? Nice. Thanks for that.



Oh, and one thing ive always wondered about cop hatred threads, is how many people who bitch about cops, obey the law in the first place. If you watch the above video, i personally cleared in the first step.

Obey the law.
Yea, so? Obey the law, ofc. But what has that got to do with the passenger asking the cop something and the cop telling the guy to shut his mouth?
Sorry, don't see the correlation here.
Ask a cop something, without aggression, without swearing, without sarcasm, end-result: Shut your mouth! Nice cop, full of civilty. So why don't all cops say to people: shut your mouth then?
I've been pulled over for random breath tests, speeding and have encountered professional police men and women and when i have asked them questions, which by the way i am entitled to do they haven't replied with: shut your mouth.
If they did, then i would take offence to that and possibly take it further.


Of NOT of my own accord, ive been detained by the cops, twice that i can recall. Both times were not of my doing, but my drunken Ex's doing. (loud and biligerant in the first incident, lying to the cops on the second incident, and i was nowhere around, i was at home, modding SH4. ) I remained calm, polite, did as instructed, always told the truth, and both times I walked away, without a scratch, either physically or legally.Not much different from the passenger asking a question, although the circumstances are different, but, asking a general question is not illegal, nor is it against the law.

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.
Agree, at the end of the day, you treat people how you want to be treated.
Doesn't make any difference where you work or what you do.


Working as a retail clerk behind a counter, is not the same thing. As a retail clerk, your talking to the customer. Your trying to get that person to buy something from you.
I doubt if that's the point he was making, he was generalising, i think.
Treat people how you want to be treated.
Wearing a badge doesn't make that any different.




You are trying to compare vastly different jobs in your line of work(and most peoples) the possibility of encountering a possibility violent person is highly un-likely the odds that a cop will is highly likely and would require them to maintain control of a situation as best as possible.All I can say is walk a mile or two in cops shoes (or more like a year or two) and see things from their perspective rather than having a most of them are big heads attitude.
Aha, yea sure i get that a cop's job is dangerous etc etc.
But, that is not the point of this discussion, is it?
We are not debating how dangerous a cop's job is.
We are debating that a cop should have some resemblance of civilty and act with a bit of professionalism.
Not tell a guy to shut his mouth.
Pretty primitive imo.

If one cant take strong verbal statements/someone in authority telling you what to do explicitly all I can say is they should stay far away from the military because they would really dislike basic training and the military as whole as commands given are not to be questioned and by law the same applies to any person when a law enforcement officer is telling you to do something.Anyone who served will tell you that some superiors where good and fair and other where not but that they respected the rank and authority that their position warranted and most times extremely bad apples got dealt with in the correct manner.The same rules can be applied to civilian law enforcement.Once again, i don't think that is the point of this discussion.
No-one it seems has a problem with getting told what to do here.
Once again, i re-iterate that the discussion is about how one person speaks to another.

I don't know about the rest of you but i was always raised with the belief that it is ok to question things.
To ask questions, in a civil and polite manner.
And i will continue to ask questions if and when i am entitled to, which is pretty much everywhere.
It is my human right. That to me is more important than some clown telling me to shut my mouth if and when i ask a question.

[Tribesman]

Just a few points Feuer.
You are basing this on a recording of the only the part of the encounter so you cannot say all he did was "Ask a cop something, without aggression, without swearing, without sarcasm".
From what is available it can be seen that this event was not a one off with the people in the car, apparently the nasty cops have a vendetta against his family and hate his brother because...well because he has accidents and drives without insurance and with dodgy tags.
It looks live you may have been taken in by a whining pikey.

[August]

working in a meat dept. dosen't either...but I am Expected to deal with people in a calm and respectful manner no matter what. If a 19 year old making 8.50 an hour is expected to act this way, a trained police officer on a traffic stop damn well better act like that too. Even if the passenger did "speak disrespectfully" the police officer is the professional, nobody else gets to behave in this manner and not get in trouble at work.

When was the last time you had a shootout in the meat department? Let's not compare apples and oranges here.

[Gerald]

In "normal" cases, it usually is not talking very special, for the simple reason that what has (already posted above) that the potent suspects have already been realized that any further exposition of the word, is not to his advantage, quite the opposite

[Ducimus]

Ok, i think i see the crux of the issue here. A shattered sense of fair play.
"If I have to be nice, then soinso should too! So there!"

This may be a shock to some of you, but the world is not a fair place, and not everyone follows the same set of standards. As the old saying goes, nobody EVER said life was fair.

The world in fact, is a cold hard mistress. Nobody knows this better then anyone who has to deal with the ugliness of the world, head on. While your sitting there smug with yourselves, totally absorbed in your own little world, there is a TON of crap your not seeing or dealing with.

[Gerald]

Ok, i think i see the crux of the issue here. A shattered sense of fair play.
"If I have to be nice, then soinso should too! So there!"

This may be a shock to some of you, but the world is not a fair place, and not everyone follows the same set of standards. As the old saying goes, nobody EVER said life was fair.

The world in fact, is a cold hard mistress. Nobody knows this better then anyone who has to deal with the ugliness of the world, head on. While your sitting there smug with yourselves, totally absorbed in your own little world, there is a TON of crap your not seeing or dealing with. It is true, you have no experience, living far from what I would call "crap" and you're grateful you do not have to deal with it, others take care of it instead

[jumpy]

I don't hate them, but I'm not putting my rights in jeopardy because I want to be a nice guy. There are great cops and bad cops out there, and you don't know which one you're dealing with when they stop you or come knocking on your door. That's why I take the say nothing route.

Quite so.

Had I followed what two traffic police had leaned on me to say, I'd have a criminal record now.
But no, they were set on doing more than just their job; which should have been to give me a producer and send me on my way - should I fail to meet the requirements of said producer, the courts would deal with me appropriately - that was not good enough for them though.
I spent almost an hour in the back of a panda car being threatened with the law and spoken to in a coercive manner, all because I did not have the correct 'papers' (which I was not obliged to carry anyway), whilst these two goons thought they'd earn some brownie points back at the station. In their eyes I was guilty of an offence and they were determined to pursue that regardless of the facts.

Right or wrong, that incident coloured my view of the police, all police, from then on.
I had been brought up to respect the office of the law, and for the most part still do so, but I have no illusions that it is there for my benefit if push should come to shove. Too many young gung-ho officers who are far too arrogant and cocky to deserve the respect of the man in the street.... standards are obviously lacking, as some of the old boys I have had encounters with have been, for the most part, quite reasonable people and not facsimiles of 2 dimensional action figures you see in american cop shows (fictional and that dog bounty hunter thing).

Stuff happens on youtube and everyone gets all bent out of shape from one side or another. Fact is (and no offence to anyone previous or currently serving - besides it should not be uncomfortable to hear this if you're a genuinely dedicated professional) I do not trust the police to act in my interests, based upon my own personal experience noted above and in other situations. This, I think, is partly to do with current legislation and how certain laws are made and how they are enforced. It's not just a dislike of authority on some arbitrary point.
You may not like my view, but it's not your job to like it, and any man or woman acting as a professional will clearly see past that and understand that this is just another part of the job they must accept: as a representative of the state and by extension, if people don't trust the state, they will not trust you, no matter your values and integrity as an individual, they will see a uniform and all that it does or does not represent.

Three other things worth saying - literacy, and the shocking lack of it with most of the current officers I have met, and failure to qualify to understand the law that they are supposed to uphold. PCSO's are a shining paragon of these deficits, but I'll not go there. And finally, fingerprints and dna being retained following arrest and release without charge... to my mind something is very very wrong there. All of those people who peddle the 'nothing to hide nothing to fear' line of nonsense had better keep their mouths shut and behave in a meek and compliant manner when they eventually fall foul of their own maxim.
We have already seen how the law in the UK has changed with the effect of criminalising large parts of the community, so whilst you might be a law abiding citizen today, you might find yourself a criminal tomorrow - I firmly lay that at the door of meddling politicians and ill considered legislation.

Perhaps I can sum it up best by saying I trust no-one (except a few blood relatives) to look out for me and mine - foolish and misplaced trust (blind loyalty, if you will), be it in authority or those you might feel a certain loyalty for, is asking for trouble.
That's a pretty dim view of the world, I'll admit. But as Ducimus has just said, nobody ever said life was fair; a sentiment that works for all walks of life, be you an ordinary bloke, a copper or a politician.



EDIT:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13268633

"To many, today's verdict will seem like a statement of the blindingly obvious, however this fails to take account of the significant and many obstacles faced by the family over the last two years to get to this decision.
"The CPS will now review whether a prosecution will be brought following today's verdict and the way in which the evidence has been clarified during the inquest process."


This is exactly the sort of thing that makes me edgy when it comes to accepting the explanations of authority and law enforcement. This and other high profile cases where law abiding citizens have been killed by police or died in police custody, whilst often with the most complex and difficult circumstances I'll grant you, none the less leaves me ill at ease.
Anyone remember the lies told by senior police figures regarding the shooting of Jean Charles de Menezes? This even extended to doctoring photos of the man to make him look more like the suspect they were really after, and finally the grossest insult to an innocent man shot dead by police was for the story that came out later on in the investigation into menezes killing, alleging that he had rapped a woman, all to discredit his innocence and to divert blame in a catastrophic ---- up by many ground level and senior policemen and intelligence organisations.
There was no conviction for his killing, and I hold no serious hope that the family of Ian Tomlinson will see one either.

[Ducimus]

It is true, you have no experience,
In law enforcement, no i don't. Although I do have a couple relatives who are in LE. Three relatives actually, now that i think of it. I contemplated LE work myself for awhile, but decided that A.) I don't care to have a job where im required to carry a weapon, and most importantly, B.) I would have a hard time "serving and protecting" the general public. I've always had what we refer to in my house as "PH level" or "public hatred level". Some days its higher then others. Suffice to say, i hate the general public.


living far from what I would call "crap"

Yes i am. Ive seen enough of the world to know how lucky i really am. I am far far far removed from the crap of the world. In fact im sheltered from it working an offiice job, living in a cubicle, and i know it. I know it because i wasn't always sheltered. By my standards, i haven't been living in the "real world" for some time. Ive seen it before, and it sure as s _ _ t aint the life im living now. My biggest concern is if ill get laid off, thats IT. Comparitively, that's a trivial worry.

and you're grateful you do not have to deal with it,
Yes i am. I know how ugly the world, and people, can be.

others take care of it instead
Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that.

[DarkFish]

My biggest concern is if ill get laidfixed that for you:O:

[Gerald]

In law enforcement, no i don't. Although I do have a couple relatives who are in LE. Three relatives actually, now that i think of it. I contemplated LE work myself for awhile, but decided that A.) I don't care to have a job where im required to carry a weapon, and most importantly, B.) I would have a hard time "serving and protecting" the general public. I've always had what we refer to in my house as "PH level" or "public hatred level". Some days its higher then others. Suffice to say, i hate the general public.




Yes i am. Ive seen enough of the world to know how lucky i really am. I am far far far removed from the crap of the world. In fact im sheltered from it working an offiice job, living in a cubicle, and i know it. I know it because i wasn't always sheltered. By my standards, i haven't been living in the "real world" for some time. Ive seen it before, and it sure as s _ _ t aint the life im living now. My biggest concern is if ill get laid off, thats IT. Comparitively, that's a trivial worry.


Yes i am. I know how ugly the world, and people, can be.


Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that.Duc! What I wrote in my post was not directed personally, as I think you already understood, what I am saying is that some times there are many things involved, and in terms of jobs, it is often about timing, and the chance to do everything , interest naturally,but I'm glad you mention the word respect, which many take for granted that there is only so must be."Thats why they have the badge, and I respect that",very good :yep:

[krashkart]

Their first mistake was to say anything at all. There are only four things you should ever say to a cop:

1. I don't know why you pulled me over.
2. I do not give you consent to search my car.
3. I have nothing more to say.
4. (if they're knocking on your door) I'd like to see a search warrant.

Anything else and you're giving them stuff to use against you.


See, I learned it the other way around:

1. Yes sir.
2. No sir.

That's about all that really needs to be said unless giving them a statement. Get mouthy with them over a simple moving violation and you're only asking for trouble. ;)

[gimpy117]

When was the last time you had a shootout in the meat department? Let's not compare apples and oranges here.

I saw no bullets flying in that video either august. Before the person even got out of the car the cop was already being extremely rude to him.

why don't you stop comparing apples to oranges, because a simple traffic stop is not a gunfight. you're "dangerous Job" argument really doesn't apply in this case. why you might ask? Because if a cop does what he is supposed to do, he is trying not to provoke people. Yelling at otherwise peaceful citizens is counter to what a cop is supposed to do, and can only provoke violence.

[AngusJS]

I tend to agree going on what I have seen on that link.

The Officer obviously knew at least one of them and as such he gave the guy the opportunity to stop his rhetoric For about 2 milliseconds, then he went into roid rage mode.

Yep. I think most people don't realize how quickly that kind of situation can turn violent. The situation was turned violent - by the policeman.

Imagine how things might have turned out if the officer had actually listened and not gotten into an argument. You know, if he had acted like a professional, and not pointlessly escalated the situation.

I guess that's too much to ask from so many of today's police.

[Jimbuna]

yeah - he probably didnt learn a thing.

I'm not sure, but i think the police have a right to restrain a person who is interfering with official matters or otherwise being belligerent even if a crime has not necessarily been committed. - not really placing them under arrest - but just taking them out of the equation so to speak.

then again - im no expert on the subject

I've no idea about US law but over here in the UK we call it 'threatening a breach of the peace'....not a serious offence in itself but one that empowers you to yake the instigator into custody if you feel it justified or necessary.

[Tribesman]

For about 2 milliseconds, then he went into roid rage mode.


Yet you don't know what happened other than what was filmed on the officers return to the car.
It is very easy to get someone well wound up and then trigger them over something apparently little once you get the situation right.

[Penguin]

"Ask a cop something, without aggression, without swearing, without sarcasm".


You don't want to tell us that you never got into trouble with the authorities because of sarcasm?! - and I'm not talking about the subsim authorities....:03:

[Tribesman]

You don't want to tell us that you never got into trouble with the authorities because of sarcasm?! - and I'm not talking about the subsim authorities...
If you want to wind a copper up by doing absolutely nothing wrong then just ask him the time or ask for directions:up:

[Penguin]

:haha:

what felony would that be: confusing and overexerting?

Same goes for the inhabitants of Essen: if you ever go there (why would anybody?): never ask for directions...:88) - though I have to try to ask a cop from there...;)

[Tribesman]

what felony would that be: confusing and overexerting?


:up:
It works best when the policeman is stood under a clock

[August]

I saw no bullets flying in that video either august. Before the person even got out of the car the cop was already being extremely rude to him.

why don't you stop comparing apples to oranges, because a simple traffic stop is not a gunfight. you're "dangerous Job" argument really doesn't apply in this case. why you might ask? Because if a cop does what he is supposed to do, he is trying not to provoke people. Yelling at otherwise peaceful citizens is counter to what a cop is supposed to do, and can only provoke violence.

Well you're wrong.

Every traffic stop has the potential to turn deadly. Every one. If you don't realize that you have no conception of what a policemans job entails.

[gimpy117]

Well you're wrong.

Every traffic stop has the potential to turn deadly. Every one. If you don't realize that you have no conception of what a policemans job entails.

did you not notice how the cop instigated things bell yelling at the person? He had no right to do that, if he had not yelled at them nothing would have happened. He started it, he was wrong to do so...cut and dry.

[Wolfehunter]

I never had an issue yet personally with cops when I was pulled over. he didn't even have to ask I had the papers readied. We both knew what I did wrong. So there was no need to argue. I think he knew that I knew I was caught. My damn squeaky wheels when I turned from a wrong lane and cut off another lane.. ---- For a month everybody was doing it.. I figured I take the chance.. That damn day there was cops at the corner.. I would have made it but my wheels squealed when I turned hard. :nope::damn:

$51 dollars ticket.. never did it again hehe..

[Tribesman]

did you not notice how the cop instigated things bell yelling at the person?
You cannot say that as you don't know what went on before the cop returned to the car.

[Ducimus]

You cannot say that as you don't know what went on before the cop returned to the car.

I'll bet that statement can be applied to the majority of threads like this on the internet. People don't care what went on before hand, particularly if it would justify any actions the cop took. All they want is the slightest reason to be able shake their fist in the air and yell fight the power. Especially on the internet. Its like a fad. They want to be able to tell cops how to do their jobs, without walking even a 50 yards in their shoes, let alone a mile. Far too many people think their special, and cops are an object of hatred because they're the ones who remind folks they aren't.

And in california, there are A LOT of special people. They must be special, because the way they act, apparently the rules don't apply to them.

[Growler]

And in california, there are A LOT of special people. They must be special, because the way they act, apparently the rules don't apply to them.

Oh, right, like the SoCal desert grows 'em exclusively.:D

[Ducimus]

Oh, right, like the SoCal desert grows 'em exclusively.:D


I didnt say Special People didn't exist elsewhere, i just said we have a lot of em here. Hell, this place is the birth cradle for a lot of stupid crap in our society.

[krashkart]

I'll bet that statement can be applied to the majority of threads like this on the internet. People don't care what went on before hand, particularly if it would justify any actions the cop took. All they want is the slightest reason to be able shake their fist in the air and yell fight the power. Especially on the internet. Its like a fad. They want to be able to tell cops how to do their jobs, without walking even a 50 yards in their shoes, let alone a mile. Far too many people think their special, and cops are an object of hatred because they're the ones who remind folks they aren't.

And in california, there are A LOT of special people. They must be special, because the way they act, apparently the rules don't apply to them.

How many of those people would have the guts to face that responsibility? My guess would be "zero". :-?

[Ducimus]

What a lot of people don't realize, (and i didn't either tell i researched it by hanging out on police forums for awhile) is that cops catch hell from their superiors AND the general public. It really depends on the PD and the local politics. Some areas are worse then others. The thing you have to realize is sh _ _ always rolls downhill.

If the local mayor or governer is trying to look good for whatever reason, he'll strong arm the PD into getting him some decent crime reduction statistics. Same thing if the captain of the local PD is bucking for a promotion. The officers are expected to beat the bushes and produce results! (emphasis intentional) If they don't, they're out on their asses. (remember, sh _ _ rolls downhill. If a cop is trying to make a quota, its because he's under the hammer from somewhere on high thats trying to look good. )

So add on a fire breathing dragon bearing down on your neck, on top of the strain already there by the general public and the fact that any one traffic stop, could be the one that has a bullet with your name on it, and it's amazing how well they really are doing given the amount of stress involved.

[gimpy117]

You cannot say that as you don't know what went on before the cop returned to the car.

so? still no reason to yell at someone

[Ducimus]

so? still no reason to yell at someone

" Oh my god George, look, hes yelling at someone!"

You know, there are far worse things in the world, then having someone yell at you. Hell, being yelled at doesn't even register in my book. Growing up i was yelled at all the time by my father. (According to him i was a "worthless little s _ _ t" . In hindsight, i probably was. ) After that, i was a cadet in an ROTC program throughout high school, and was yelled at in the same manner R. Lee Ermey is famous for. Then i went to basic and the real military, and got yelled at some more.....


If you can't handle being yelled at, you've definitely got to toughen up a wee bit.

[Tribesman]

so? still no reason to yell at someone
How do you know there was no reason?

[AngusJS]

Yet you don't know what happened other than what was filmed on the officers return to the car.
It is very easy to get someone well wound up and then trigger them over something apparently little once you get the situation right.Is he a professional? If so, why did he let himself get wound up? The arrested person was a hell of a lot more calm than he was.

This cop apparently has such a short fuse that I can't imagine what the person could have said to get him that angry, yet still not angry enough to arrest him.

Some cops want to have it both ways - they want a job with huge responsibility, yet they fall back on the "shucks, we're only human" excuse whenever they're called out on their actions.

If you can't be professional, don't be a cop.

[August]

If you can't be professional, don't be a cop.

I think your idea of professional is inhuman. There is not a person in the world that hasn't displayed anger at some point.

[gimpy117]

I think your idea of professional is inhuman. There is not a person in the world that hasn't displayed anger at some point.

by yelling at someone on the job?

and thats why were saying he need to be professional.

[tater]

I've been pulled over a few times in my life, and the cops were always polite. Some were more cold/business, but none were rude or yelled. Of course I was always respectful to them to start with. I suppose it would be my right to act like an ass, but it would be stupid.

[August]

by yelling at someone on the job?

Sure. If you haven't yet then just give it time, you will eventually.

[gimpy117]

Sure. If you haven't yet then just give it time, you will eventually.

yes, when it happens I'm sure nobody will be surprised when they yell back...so why are you so mad the person in the car was put off by that outburst? whats with the cop loving? I like police officers, but I don't fight tooth and nail to defend them when they do wrong.

[August]

yes, when it happens I'm sure nobody will be surprised when they yell back...so why are you so mad the person in the car was put off by that outburst? whats with the cop loving? I like police officers, but I don't fight tooth and nail to defend them when they do wrong.

"Fight tooth and nail"? Get over yourself... :roll:

[krashkart]

I've been pulled over a few times in my life, and the cops were always polite. Some were more cold/business, but none were rude or yelled. Of course I was always respectful to them to start with. I suppose it would be my right to act like an ass, but it would be stupid.


I know the answer to this, but:

"Why would it be stupid?"

I've come close to sharing similar experiences, but the argument always remains the same: "The cops suck and <drone drone blah blah blah> *patooey*!!"

One thing I will say is this; they were there for us when we really needed them, and I will always carry that gratitude with me. "Thank you, whoever you are." ... I never did get their names. :salute:

[krashkart]

yes, when it happens I'm sure nobody will be surprised when they yell back...so why are you so mad the person in the car was put off by that outburst? whats with the cop loving? I like police officers, but I don't fight tooth and nail to defend them when they do wrong.


One crucial detail that we are missing is the Full Story. There is only so much that can be gathered from a video clip. :yep:


Here's a question for you:

How does that incident affect you? I can answer that, but I won't. :)

[gimpy117]

"Fight tooth and nail"? Get over yourself... :roll:

from the man who said a page ago "you're wrong" like he knows everything :hmmm:

takes one to know one?

but also, I'd be very sorry to live in your world where everybody is justified at screaming and acting threatening at each other just because they're a lil bit frustrated. This isn't about the fact that he blew up, yeah it happens, but...it's about the fact that thats not acceptable behavior. The way I see it, yelling at other people is never a way to treat others, and when you do it you deserve the repercussions they entail, not some rationalizing to make yourself or others thing degrading others is an ok way to vent frustration.

[elephantium]

Obligatory video:
How not to get your ass kicked by the police! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8)

Oh, and one thing ive always wondered about cop hatred threads, is how many people who bitch about cops, obey the law in the first place. If you watch the above video, i personally cleared in the first step.

Obey the law.

If we could trust all the cops to do the same, we wouldn't have any of these so-called "cop hatred" threads, now would we?

If complaining about cops abusing their position is "cop hatred", then I think it's only fair to label the opposite position "hatred of freedom". Turnabout, after all, IS fair play, isn't it?

[Tribesman]

@Angus
Is he a professional? If so, why did he let himself get wound up?


Because he is human.

The arrested person was a hell of a lot more calm than he was.


That is the key to stitching someone up.

This cop apparently has such a short fuse that I can't imagine what the person could have said to get him that angry
"apparently"...yet you only see the second part of the ecounter so nothing is clear and appearances can be deceptive.
As for making a cop angry, why not try it.
Just follow my suggestion earlier and see how many times you can ask a cop the time before he gets really wound up.
If you time it right you can get yourself a nice video for youtube of a cop losing it just because you asked him once for the time in a nice calm polite way.

[krashkart]

Just follow my suggestion earlier and see how many times you can ask a cop the time before he gets really wound up.
If you time it right you can get yourself a nice video for youtube of a cop losing it just because you asked him once for the time in a nice calm polite way.


Hey, isn't that something like pushing someone until they lose it? :hmmm:

[Feuer Frei!]

You know, i think it's rather disappointing that at least 1 person that's posted in my thread has indicated that this is a cop hate thread!
Never ever has there been the case, certainly from my o.p. nor anywhere else that i or the purpose of this thread was to discuss or insinuate that cops should be, are or must be hated/disliked.
Pees me off that does.
What also annoys me is that it seems to be a feeling made clear by some of you that it is absolutely looked down upon or frowned upon when one asks questions of cops, or their behaiviour towards the public, when conducting their jobs.
Seems to me that that is a big no-no.
Newsflash, why the heck shouldn't we be able to ask questions about how police men and women conduct themselves whilst on duty?
Hell, we mere mortals are held accountable for our day to day actions and behaviour in our jobs.
What makes it so different when it's a cop?
And the well, it's a dangerous job, or they wear a badge or they are there to enforce the law arguement doesn't cut it.
So, let's refrain from insinuating that this is a cop hater thread, stop putting words in my mouth, when all i did was post this video, along with a question about the professional or not conduct of the police officer in the clip.
For the record, again:
I don't hate cops, i respect them and their jobs.
However, it is also my right, God given, within the bounds of the law, to question actions of the law enforcement if i think that they are unprofessional.
I loosly use the term unprofessional.
Make of that word what you will.

[August]

from the man who said a page ago "you're wrong" like he knows everything :hmmm:


No, you can still be wrong without me knowing everything. :yep: