Need some tactical advice...

[CptLoonee]

I'm not the most experienced captain out on the seas, but I am getting better. I am decent at manual aiming using both the stadometer and using the Dick O'kane method, and I am fairly good at remaining undetected. This current situation is a bit beyond me though...

Here's the Situation:


It's late 1944.

I am in the USS Balao. I have completed a patrol right off of Hong Kong with limited activity, though I have managed to sink 4 medium to large marus with no more than two torps each. Each was a single contact apparently moving east through the formosa strait.

Recognizing that pattern, I decided to go through the strait. As I came out on the other side, in the shallow water a hundred miles out from shore, I get radar confirmation of a convoy in the middle of a terrible squall. It is about 1 AM.

I set up ahead of the convoy and setup for a Dick O'kane attack, but as the convoy creeps closer at 7 knots, I keep getting more and more radar contacts.

By the time I sweep the area, I have confirmation of THIRTY SIX ships!

I have never seen a fleet this large.

By the radar tracks, there seem to be at least 6 destroyers flanking and preceding four columns of what I believe must be freighters and tankers (due to the low speed).

I am on the surface.

Visibility is LESS than a complete boat length in a terrible storm at 1am. I cannot visually ID any target before collision, let alone in torpedo arming range.

I have 6 MK14 fish in the front tubes with 4 cuties in the aft tubes. No reloads left. 3/4 fuel left and a full battery charge.

I am running TMO2.1
RSRDC
IJN Radar Fix
Max Optix IV
Visuals for RSRDC
ShipPlaneFireDamage v1.3

I run on full real settings

What would your approach be?

Thanks for the help.

[sharkbit]

I don't think shooting on radar bearings alone is out of the question. Using the Dick O'Kane method, range is irrelevant. Using radar you can set the attack up on the map against what seems to be the juiciest targets and shoot blindly with an angled spread, just pick your range off of their track.

It sounds as though visually aquiring targets is way too dangerous.

Another option is to stay ahead of the convoy/task force and shadow and see if the weather improves. If it does, you should be in pretty good position to launch an attack. If not, the blind attack is still an option.

The opportunity sounds just too juicy to pass up.

Good luck. :salute:

:)

[CptLoonee]

I don't think shooting on radar bearings alone is out of the question. Using the Dick O'Kane method, range is irrelevant. Using radar you can set the attack up on the map against what seems to be the juiciest targets and shoot blindly with an angled spread, just pick your range off of their track.

It sounds as though visually aquiring targets is way too dangerous.

Another option is to stay ahead of the convoy/task force and shadow and see if the weather improves. If it does, you should be in pretty good position to launch an attack. If not, the blind attack is still an option.

The opportunity sounds just too juicy to pass up.

Good luck. :salute:

:)

Shadowing them may be the best bet, though this squall has gone on for over a day already. It's one of the nastiest storms I have been in in 11 patrols. I can't even use the deck gun (not that I would even try in this situation).

In good weather, I feel I could easily get at least 3-4 ships before the escorts got all over me.

The other problem I have is, once these guys get on me, I am gonna have a rough time evading them. I think I only have about 200-250 feet to play with. I doubt I even have a thermal layer to hide under.

[Stealhead]

You can use your sound gear as well to attack with don't forget this fact.There are guides in here some place showing how to set up an attack with your sound gear.Just giving you an option you seem not to have thought of.

[magic452]

Sounds like you got it pretty much figured out to me.

A O'kane surface radar attack looks to be in order.
O'kane is pretty accurate from 3000 + yards, I'd go for that.
Fire six and beet feet at flank to clear the zone before you are forced to dive.
May well have a thermal at >200 feet and heavy seas should give you a good chance against the escorts.

Remember that radar sweeps are 30 seconds and allow for that when you fire.
Plot the targets you want every sweep and you will have a good idea when to shoot. you'll probably have to settle for maybe two targets as shooting off radar will cost some accuracy.

A sonar attack would be good if you had a little more water but under these circumstances you'll want to be surfaced and able to put some flank speed distance between you and the escorts.

Strike while the iron is hot, good weather and 200+ feet of water is not a good mix.

Magic

[Armistead]

With RSRD you'll see many large convoys coming through Formosa and the Palawan passage in 44. Most have Type AB's as escort, they catch you dived in shallows, you're dead.

If you have a 40 bofor and a deckgun, get in the convoy and have at it. You don't need visuals, just estimate range and shoot down the bearing.
Try to get about 500 yards from the ship your attacking. I've taken out entire convoys like this with the DG and two 40's.

I usually come in from the rear between the escorts and go up the center between the two columns. Do you have APR installed so you can see if any ships have radar? The radar ship will guide the escorts to you so keep watching radar and why shooting hit the nearest warship tab. Keep a heavy trim in case you have to dive. Good thing is rough water, so even shallow it's hard for them to find you. If a escort comes, I'll dive and blow tanks when he passes and head to a merchant.

Usually once you hit a ship the entire convoy will go into alert mode and cut on the blinking lights giving you a good aiming point. Be careful, merchants may start to mill in circles, you don't want one to catch you with visuals. They may also cut on spotlights if dark enough.

I will often weave between the merchants, using them to block escorts.

I sometimes will use the torps using the blinker lights to aim by, just shoot within 600 yards or so by radar, hard to miss.

Oh, some ships may be loaded with ammo or fuel, don't be too close when they blow up or you'll be toast.

Many more large convoys in 44, historically the JP's started using a larger convoy system then.
They come through Formosa a lot. Sometimes you may have 2-3 large convoys on radar at the same time if you're timing is lucky. Sit outside Brunei Bay in 44, October to November is good. Where many TF arrrive and leave and most come back for the battle of Phillipines. Both the Center Force and Southern force leave Singy and head there, dock and then to the battle, but come back after, several other TF come and go then.

Here's some storm SS surface battle shots using all guns, took out 13 merchants in this convoy

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_001308_484.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_000028_031.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_001809_515.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_002504_671.jpg

[CptLoonee]

With RSRD you'll see many large convoys coming through Formosa and the Palawan passage in 44. Most have Type AB's as escort, they catch you dived in shallows, you're dead.

If you have a 40 bofor and a deckgun, get in the convoy and have at it. You don't need visuals, just estimate range and shoot down the bearing.
Try to get about 500 yards from the ship your attacking. I've taken out entire convoys like this with the DG and two 40's.

I usually come in from the rear between the escorts and go up the center between the two columns. Do you have APR installed so you can see if any ships have radar? The radar ship will guide the escorts to you so keep watching radar and why shooting hit the nearest warship tab. Keep a heavy trim in case you have to dive. Good thing is rough water, so even shallow it's hard for them to find you. If a escort comes, I'll dive and blow tanks when he passes and head to a merchant.

Usually once you hit a ship the entire convoy will go into alert mode and cut on the blinking lights giving you a good aiming point. Be careful, merchants may start to mill in circles, you don't want one to catch you with visuals. They may also cut on spotlights if dark enough.

I will often weave between the merchants, using them to block escorts.

I sometimes will use the torps using the blinker lights to aim by, just shoot within 600 yards or so by radar, hard to miss.

Oh, some ships may be loaded with ammo or fuel, don't be too close when they blow up or you'll be toast.

Many more large convoys in 44, historically the JP's started using a larger convoy system then.
They come through Formosa a lot. Sometimes you may have 2-3 large convoys on radar at the same time if you're timing is lucky. Sit outside Brunei Bay in 44, October to November is good. Where many TF arrrive and leave and most come back for the battle of Phillipines. Both the Center Force and Southern force leave Singy and head there, dock and then to the battle, but come back after, several other TF come and go then.

Here's some storm SS surface battle shots using all guns, took out 13 merchants in this convoy

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_001308_484.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_000028_031.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_001809_515.jpg

http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2011-03-28_002504_671.jpg

That's amazing that you're able to do that. I don't know if I am capable of that. Even if I was, even though I have a forward deck gun, 2 40 bofors and a twin 20 mm, the problem I am having is that the sea is so rough in this storm, even fully surfaced, I cannot keep my crew on the deck gun for more than a few seconds at a time.

The lead destroyer I believe has radar because he makes a Bee-line right for me no matter how I setup.

I may try a center of the convoy gun battle just fo rthe hell of it though.

Great screenies :)

[Armistead]

Helps to be close, but not too close. You learn to time with the deckgun if waters are rough. A trick that seems to work is adjust direction, often going a different direction the boat will ride smooth. I've never tested why, running with or against the wind, doubt it, but it works.

Try running decks awash. You may lose your deckgun crew, but you can still use the 40's. If you see a escort coming, dive for a minute and haul arse. Once they lose you on radar they'll usually go looking elsewhere or the spot you dived.

The main thing is situational control, don't get so engrossed in shooting use lose the tactical advantage. If you have contacts on, keep an eye on that map, if not use sonar for nearest warship, but don't trust it, keep moving and weaving and be ready to dive. With radar boats keep moving, if you don't have time to sink merchants, set em on fire so you can spot them later.

If an escort is coming, turn on him and damage or sink him. Usually only one or two at best come looking. Most these convoys have smaller Type AB escorts, they sink or damage fairly fast.

Play with it, you'll figure it out, really almost too easy.

[CptLoonee]

I have honestly never used the 40s for anything but AA. Are they really effective against ships?

[Thrair]

I have honestly never used the 40s for anything but AA. Are they really effective against ships?


I've the same question.



Also, if you have cuties loaded into the aft tubes, bring her around and launch em in the general direction of the target ships, assuming this appears to be close range. Cuties, while weak and slow, have a notable tendency to blow the props off of ships, especially merchants. They may even get a warship, given the storm conditions (which tends to result in the AI slowing down).

Eventually escorts will leave the stricken ship to rejoin the main group, allowing you to finish the target off at your leisure.

[CptLoonee]

I decided to shadow the convoy and weather the storm. It took 3 days!

Finally I set up in a good spot for a night time Dick O'kane attack and destroyed a 20000 ton carrier and a heavy cruiser!

Now I have 6 destroyers all over me depth charging me to hell. Not sure I'll make it.

[Armistead]

The 40's work as fast or faster than the deckgun.. The 20 doesn't harm ships, not with TMO anyway, but it works better than the 40 for shooting off depth charge racks. Often in a storm I'll use it to come up behind a escort and shoot his racks off, but stay out of his visual range. Least if I have to dive, he can't dump anything on me.

Now, if this is a TF and not a convoy, deckguns and 40's are basically useless, a planned surface attack with torps is the best option. I may have to dive due to radar, but after I shoot, I surface and run away and dive somewhere else gaining position.

Good luck with the 6 DD's, should've attacked in the storm and ran out on the surface decks awash. Works great in a storm. I dive about 28 feet so the engines stay on, but waves will somtimes take you deeper, cutting on your electrics. You'll pop off and on on radar confusing them.

Radar may be bugged in stock. The JPS have two types, surface and air, but seems the air will pick up surface as it's detection rate is set too low to the surface. Mods correct this by adjusting the air radars height value so it can't hit surface ships. If you stay decks awash you can usually stay under the JPS surface radar.

[magic452]

Bad weather is your friend. :know:

Magic

[Daniel Prates]

I decided to shadow the convoy and weather the storm. It took 3 days!

Finally I set up in a good spot for a night time Dick O'kane attack and destroyed a 20000 ton carrier and a heavy cruiser!

Now I have 6 destroyers all over me depth charging me to hell. Not sure I'll make it.

Easy to come in, difficult to come out, eh?

Personally I would never hit a convoy in very shallow waters, specially with heavy escort all around. Regardless of the weather. When we play SH it's all fun and games, but let's try to imagine ourselves in the real deal: attacking in this situation is close to suicide.

There is always the chance that, by sheer lack of luck, you run into 2 or 3 destroyers at the same time. Lack of visibility could cause you getting into such a situation. You would be dead before you had the time to say "damn the torpedoes!"

[CptLoonee]

Good news. After the carrier and cruiser went down the destroyers all made one pass on me. I waited until I heard their screws almost directly overhead then kicked it to flank and made a 90 degree turn. I took damage and thought I was done for. I rose to about 100 feet in case my hull damage was bad enough for the pressure to get me. After six passes, three of the destroyers left to catch up to the remaining fleet of tankers and marus (this was a strange convoy).

The other three either ran out of charges, thought I was dead, lost contact with me or left to catch up after a few more passes.

I was able to escape and make it back to port with my second career carrier kill.

A really fun patrol

Thanks for the help!