View Full Version : John Paul II beatified in Vatican ceremony
The late Pope, John Paul II, has been officially beatified at a ceremony at the Vatican in front of hundreds of thousands of Catholic faithful.
Among those at St Peter's Square is French nun Marie Simon-Pierre, who says she was cured of Parkinson's Disease.
Her apparently miraculous cure is part of the case for the beatification, the last stage before sainthood.
It comes amid criticism of the Church for the speed of the beatification and the clerical child sex abuse scandal.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13251415
Note: 1 May 2011 Last updated at 09:20 GMT
Rockstar
05-01-11, 06:02 AM
Creepy.
Hottentot
05-01-11, 06:32 AM
Her apparently miraculous cure is part of the case for the beatification, the last stage before sainthood.
Wait, they still require a miracle for that? Yeah, apparently the article says so too. Interesting, to say the least. I have studied a little about how the process went in the medieval era, but this is news to me. I wonder what else hasn't changed. Saints are still not becoming saints, because their lobbyists run out of money?
The question is whether small boys become beatified which was utilized, :nope:
Jimbuna
05-01-11, 07:51 AM
The biggest negative factor is that he was in charge during the period of some of the most devastating child sex revelations.
Fish In The Water
05-01-11, 07:06 PM
The biggest negative factor is that he was in charge during the period of some of the most devastating child sex revelations.
Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.
Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.
IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.
papa_smurf
05-02-11, 03:07 AM
More than a million turned up to see this. Just shows the Catholic religion isn't quite dead.
The will to survive himself...
Bakkels
05-02-11, 08:44 AM
Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.
Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.
IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.
I agree with every single word written here. Well said.
Armistead
05-02-11, 08:49 AM
Geesh, another saint to pray to, another mass sell of saint prayer ornaments in the works..
I was supposed to be going to Rome this weekend until we realised this was going on. Going in a fortnight instead when it's hopefully a bit quieter. even if we could have gotten a hotel room it would have been something like 4 times the normal price.
I was supposed to be going to Rome this weekend until we realised this was going on. Going in a fortnight instead when it's hopefully a bit quieter. even if we could have gotten a hotel room it would have been something like 4 times the normal price. I wish you-all, good luck with your trip, and hope you have a good time .... maybe there's a chance to be beatified, despite everything :yep:
Jimbuna
05-02-11, 01:04 PM
Rome isn't cheap any time in my experience but it would probably be similar to trying to get a hotel room in London during the day of the royal wedding.
Rome isn't cheap any time in my experience but it would probably be similar to trying to get a hotel room in London during the day of the royal wedding. But who goes to London, where it rained .... almost all year round, :timeout:
Rome isn't cheap any time in my experience but it would probably be similar to trying to get a hotel room in London during the day of the royal wedding.
I've been to Rome quite a bit and I've never found it that bad. Been worse the last couple of times because of the value of the pound against the Euro but still about bearable. Having said that. I was in Venice last autumn and it nearly bankrupted me - that's what i get for going there when it's still high season and the film festival is on.
Now, London and Paris are pricey whatever is going on.
I wish you-all, good luck with your trip, and hope you have a good time .... maybe there's a chance to be beatified, despite everything
Beautified perhaps...:DL I don't think I'd make a very good saint. Mind you, from what I've been told there are quite a few saints who wouldn't have made very good saints so I'm discounting nothing.
Jimbuna
05-02-11, 01:45 PM
But who goes to London, where it rained .... almost all year round, :timeout:
A few more million tourists than visit Stockholm I'd bet.
Jimbuna
05-02-11, 01:46 PM
I've been to Rome quite a bit and I've never found it that bad. Been worse the last couple of times because of the value of the pound against the Euro but still about bearable. Having said that. I was in Venice last autumn and it nearly bankrupted me - that's what i get for going there when it's still high season and the film festival is on.
Now, London and Paris are pricey whatever is going on.
Venice is just crazy for prices...I'm thinking of Sorrento next possibly.
Schroeder
05-02-11, 01:48 PM
As if our decisions here will change the status of someone on the other side.:roll:
Yeah, god will surely think: Hey the beatified him...well John from now on you'll be something special here.
:nope:
EDIT
Hmm no Skybird in here yet? :hmm2:
Venice is just crazy for prices...I'm thinking of Sorrento next possibly.
I love that part of the world. Napoli is a crazy old town but I really liked it. Capri, the Amalfi coast, Pompeii. Wish I was there right now. I'd like to go to Sorrento next time I'm down that way.
A few more million tourists than visit Stockholm I'd bet. Strange, huh London is a much bigger city and has thus more citizens living, I have also never claimed that Stockholm is more than just London in question, but ..... the beer tastes better and the girls are more willing, :yep:
Strange, huh London is a much bigger city and has thus more citizens living, I have also never claimed that Stockholm is more than just London in question, but ..... the beer tastes better and the girls are more willing, :yep:
You've obviously been to the wrong places in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho) :03:
You've obviously been to the wrong places in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho) :03: Remind me not, the place is "known" :haha:
You've obviously been to the wrong places in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho) :03:
:D
I had a strange argument with someone on another board about London a few months ago. He kept going on about how all the food was terrible and he could never find anything he wanted to eat. That blew me away. I would imagine there are more places to eat, catering to a wider range of tastes, than anywhere else in Europe. Having said that, my favourite place to eat in London is a little Kebab shop in Southwark. It's brilliant. :up:
I remember an American gentleman I knew who ranted at me about how bad British food was. He kept going on about how awful the meal was he'd had when he was in London. Turned out he'd gone to Harry Ramsden's in Soho...Honestly, he's basing his views on a fast food chip shop in the most touristy part of the entire city. That's like basing a dislike of the English language on the fact that 'The DaVinci Code' wasn't a very good novel.
Now, where did John Paul go? I'm sure he was around here when we started...:O:
Hmm no Skybird in here yet? :hmm2:
he hasn't come back from the ceremony yet.
:D
I had a strange argument with someone on another board about London a few months ago. He kept going on about how all the food was terrible and he could never find anything he wanted to eat. That blew me away. I would imagine there are more places to eat, catering to a wider range of tastes, than anywhere else in Europe. Having said that, my favourite place to eat in London is a little Kebab shop in Southwark. It's brilliant. :up:
I remember an American gentleman I knew who ranted at me about how bad British food was. He kept going on about how awful the meal was he'd had when he was in London. Turned out he'd gone to Harry Ramsden's in Soho...Honestly, he's basing his views on a fast food chip shop in the most touristy part of the entire city. That's like basing a dislike of the English language on the fact that 'The DaVinci Code' wasn't a very good novel.
Now, where did John Paul go? I'm sure he was around here when we started...:O:
He has heard your prayers and will soon go back to square one :DL
Jimbuna
05-02-11, 03:58 PM
You've obviously been to the wrong places in London (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soho) :03:
Nice one :DL
I love that part of the world. Napoli is a crazy old town but I really liked it. Capri, the Amalfi coast, Pompeii. Wish I was there right now. I'd like to go to Sorrento next time I'm down that way.
I was there last July, fantastic place. Best pizza ever. :yeah: Huge lemons too.
I was there last July, fantastic place. Best pizza ever. :yeah: Huge lemons too.
Did you go to the Brandi? Best pizza I've ever had.
Betonov
05-02-11, 04:42 PM
But who goes to London, where it rained .... almost all year round, :timeout:
Me, visited a couple of years ago and sworn to return
Did you go to the Brandi? Best pizza I've ever had.
No, where is it? We went to a place in the centre of Napoli, and bought our own food from local grocers in Capri (heck of a difference in prices).
Me, visited a couple of years ago and sworn to return Well I admit that the city has advantages, quite right and the people are friendly and that you should avoid red-haired girls ... they tend to have one of those damn mood, says one thing and do something else instead, :O:
Fish In The Water
05-02-11, 09:56 PM
I agree with every single word written here. Well said.
Thanks for the kind words. :yep:
gimpy117
05-02-11, 10:01 PM
Right, but as large an issue as this is in the outside world it's pretty much dust under the carpet in Catholic circles.
Personally, I don't attach a large degree of personal blame on John Paul himself as I think the institution was already corrupt when he took over. That being said, (while I don't think he should be blamed for the misdeeds of individual priests), he does become culpable in my mind for the lack of a more appropriate response. This is where I think his leadership (or lack thereof) should be measured.
IMO, his primary shortcoming was in failing to help reform the institution in the wake of such shocking scandal. This is where I think he erred on the side of the status quo.
I don't agree with that, A saint is supposed to be somebody who does great things, It's hard to believe he didn't know about these offenses. If he would have done the opposite and stopped these acts, then yes, he deserves Sainthood...but...nothing was done, the church went so far as to move offenders out of jurisdiction to protect them.
I'm sorry..I just can't see why someone who had to power to stop this, but did nothing deserves to be a saint.
Fish In The Water
05-02-11, 10:09 PM
I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.
Not really sure where the disagreement is here... :hmmm:
gimpy117
05-02-11, 10:13 PM
I wouldn't expect everyone to agree, but perhaps you misunderstood as I never commented on his meriting sainthood. Matter of fact I suggested his legacy was tarnished by the fact he didn't act strongly enough to reform in the wake of sexual abuse.
Not really sure where the disagreement is here... :hmmm:
because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.
Fish In The Water
05-02-11, 10:15 PM
because I don't think anyone who knows of the molestation of children, but doesn't act would Ever be considered a saint in gods eyes. A true saint would have done as much as he can if they knew about it. The pope had enough power to stop it, even if it cost him his power a true saint would have done everything he could.
Fair enough but where did I say he should be a saint? :hmmm:
Castout
05-02-11, 11:55 PM
Well for one it's a sainthood title given by the Pope, head of Catholic church.
One it is only a worldly title, world of the dead, hell and heaven don't care about it.
Two it is given by Pope Benedict and not God
Three John Paul II doesn't get anything out of this, really.
Four, it's not about John Paul II since he doesn't benefit from this.
Five, I'm a Catholic :hmmm:...umm maybe I should change my religion but any religion doesn't save anyone. That's the power of God.
Six, a certain Caucasian Catholic monk once relayed a death threat to me. He said something about being torn apart and being returned to the cosmos if I remain imbalance. Holy crickey Cosmos is my rice cooker. Never knew it could tore me apart.
You know I've since realized Catholicism to love injustice and take side with the powerful. Any petty powerful murderer and dictator would only need to be a Catholic to buy themselves the rights to persecute the weak and innocent while being dear friend of the Catholic church.
For the most recent example there must be reason why the Pope suggested diplomacy to Libya crisis, knowing fully that any peaceful settlement while Gaddafi remains in power would mean vengeance and death to many Pro democracy supporters and fighters and innocent lives.
I spent 15 minutes with my rice cooker but it never answered me, that monk must have been deluded. I recall God at least to have answered me immediately 4 times in the span of my 31 year of living. Cosmos, he got to be kidding. I've seen God but I have never seen a powerful rice cooker. The only people who are imbalance are the people who were after my life. The cowards who hide behind emblazoned state money.
But I guess Vatican is an expert when it comes to dirty money and money laundering. I mean that is what they are doing in their own Bank. Not once but twice and God knows how many times again it will be exposed. If you make peace with the devil and evil you're making yourself the enemy of the holy God to put simply. But of course if you do not know God it won't matter much I suppose.
Thanks for the kind words. :yep:But you are good, no doubt about it :DL
Fish In The Water
05-03-11, 09:55 PM
But you are good, no doubt about it :DL
Very kind of you, thank you my friend. :salute:
Very kind of you, thank you my friend. :salute:
You are welcome, :up:
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