Tax the rich? 14 Facts you may want to consider first.

[Feuer Frei!]

As the overall economic pie shrinks, the poor are being taught to go after the rich and the rich are being taught that the poor are a threat. Lately, the calls to "tax the rich" have grown louder than ever. As thousands more American families fall into poverty every single day, and as U.S. government debt continues to soar, many are touting higher taxes on the wealthy as the solution to all of our problems. But is that what we really want to do? Will it actually solve our economic and financial problems as a nation? If you don't have much money, it can sound very appealing when politicians say that they want to "tax the rich". But unfortunately, things are just not that simple. First of all, the ultra-wealthy and the largest corporations have become masters at avoiding taxes altogether.
You want to tax the rich?
How about General Electric?
They are rich, right?
They are also very, very tight with the Obama administration.
So of course they are more than happy to pay their "fair share" of taxes, right?
Wrong.
General Electric made over 14 billion dollars in profits last year but did not pay a single penny (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=4&hp) of that to the U.S. Treasury.
The ultra-rich simply are not going to be taxed into oblivion. They will do whatever it takes to avoid high tax rates.
In fact, it is estimated that a third of all the wealth in the world is now held in "offshore" tax havens.
The truth is that our tax system is completely and totally broken.
Raising or lowering tax rates is not going to make much of a difference at all to the ultra-wealthy and the largest corporations.
But raising taxes on the "wealthy" will absolutely hammer small businesses in the United States.
And small businesses provide the vast majority of the new jobs.
Small businesses don't have the resources to set up shell companies in the Cayman Islands or in Switzerland. Small businesses cannot afford to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal fees to tax lawyers.
So when you raise taxes on the rich, the ultra-wealthy and the largest corporations are generally not affected but you absolutely crush small businesses.
When you crush small businesses you crush job growth in this country.
If you wanted to truly "tax the rich", you would need to completely throw out our current tax system and come up with something completely and totally different.
And actually, when you get right down to it, an income tax is not even needed to run our country. Until 1913 the United States did just fine without a federal income tax.
But Americans have gotten it into their heads that the government should be some kind of cosmic Robin Hood that takes money from the rich and distributes it to the poor.
What such a system does is it takes the incentive to make money away from the rich (because they don't get to keep their money) and it takes the incentive to make money away from the poor (because they can just sit on their couches and collect government checks every month).
Such a system makes us all poorer because it produces less economic wealth overall.
Not that income inequality hasn't become a massive problem in our society. In fact, income inequality is now higher than it ever has been in America.
According to a new report from the AFL-CIO, the average CEO made 343 times more money (http://www.economyincrisis.org/content/ceo-pay-now-343-times-higher-average-american) than the average American did last year.
But you don't solve that by taxing the rich and giving government handouts to the poor.
Rather, the solution is to change the rules of the game so that money and financial power does not become so concentrated in the hands of just a few. Our founding fathers intended for all Americans to be able to start businesses and compete. They never intended for gigantic mega-corporations to dominate everything.
The American people need jobs and they need the chance to be able to start businesses and compete fairly in the marketplace.
But instead, a huge percentage of the population has just given up and have become content with receiving government handouts.
You see, the truth is that most Americans now receive a government payout in one form or another and they have become very accustomed to that money.
People do not want to see their "government benefits" cut.
According to one recent poll (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/most-support-budget-deal-but-oppose-cuts-to-major-programs/2011/04/19/AFK5077D_graphic.html), 78% of Americans oppose spending cuts to Medicare and 69% of Americans oppose spending cuts to Medicaid.
Most Americans will get very angry if you start coming after their government checks.
Today there are more than 44 million Americans on food stamps. Many that go on food stamps stay on them forever.
In fact, the truth is that most Americans will stay on social welfare programs as long as they can.
Not that many of these programs aren't necessary. We have an economy that does not produce enough jobs for everyone and that is pushing more American families below the poverty line every single day. The average American family (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/35-statistics-that-show-the-average-american-family-has-been-broke-down-tore-down-beat-down-busted-and-disgusted-by-this-economy) is being absolutely shredded by this economy.
But when you organize a society in such a way that a majority can vote for the wealth of the minority to be transferred into their pockets you are asking for trouble.
If you raise taxes on the rich and give more handouts to the poor is that going to provide them with jobs?
No.
If you raise taxes on the rich and give more handouts to the poor is that going to give them dignity?
No.
If you raise taxes on the rich and give more handouts to the poor is that going to create more businesses and spur more economic activity?
No.
Yes, we always need to help the poor and those that cannot help themselves.
However, what we have created is an "entitlement society" where the majority of Americans now receive direct payments of money from the government.
As millions more Americans climb aboard the "safety net" each year, it is eventually going to get to the point where all of this government welfare is going to destroy this nation financially.
But our politicians love the current tax system.
Why?
For one thing, it gives them the ability to exert tremendous social control over the rest of us.
And since most of our politicians are control freaks, they absolutely love to engage in social engineering.
Is there a behavior that they don't like?
They just tax it.
Is there a behavior that they want to promote?
They just give us a tax break for it.
The rest of us end up running around like chickens with our heads cut off as we attempt to play the little social control games that they have constructed for us.
Americans spend billions of hours and tens of billions of dollars preparing their taxes every single year.
It is a tremendous waste of time and resources.
But most of you already know that.
So should we tax the rich more? Will it fix all of our national money problems (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/money-problems-that-never-seem-to-end-25-reasons-to-be-absolutely-disgusted-with-the-u-s-economy)?
Of course not.
The truth is that we are taxed more than enough (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/65-ways-that-everything-that-you-think-that-you-own-is-being-systematically-taken-away-from-you) already.
The following are 14 statistics about taxation in the United States for you all to consider....
#1 The top 1 percent of all income earners already pay 39.5 percent (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/18/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-says-top-1-percent-pay-40-percent/) of all federal income taxes.
#2 When you take all forms of federal taxation into account, the top 1 percent of all income earners pay 28.1 percent (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/18/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-says-top-1-percent-pay-40-percent/) of all federal taxes.
#3 The top 20 percent of all income earners in the United States pay approximately 86 percent (http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2011/apr/18/michele-bachmann/michele-bachmann-says-top-1-percent-pay-40-percent/) of all federal income taxes.
#4 One recent poll found that 64 percent (http://www.opednews.com/articles/Poll-after-Poll-After-Poll-by-Daily-kos-110420-366.html) of Americans are in favor of raising taxes on those that make $250,000 or more a year in order to help balance the federal budget deficit. Another recent poll found that 72 percent (http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/most-support-budget-deal-but-oppose-cuts-to-major-programs/2011/04/19/AFK5077D_graphic.html) of Americans favor raising taxes on those making $250,000 or more a year.
#5 Approximately 45 percent (http://www.opednews.com/populum/linkframe.php?linkid=130402) of all U.S. households pay absolutely no income taxes at all.
#6 Overall, U.S. households are now receiving more income from the U.S. government than they are paying to the government in taxes (http://money.msn.com/tax-tips/post.aspx?post=63c403d6-0a2f-4506-a8b8-25124d49889b). This is clearly not anywhere close to sustainable.
#7 During 2010, the U.S. government paid out a combined $2.3 trillion (http://money.msn.com/tax-tips/post.aspx?post=63c403d6-0a2f-4506-a8b8-25124d49889b) in unemployment benefits, Social Security benefits, disability insurance, Medicare benefits, Medicaid benefits, benefits for veterans, education assistance and other direct transfers of cash from the government to individual citizens.
#8 59 percent (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/it%E2%80%99s-game-over-us) of all Americans now receive a government payout of one form or another.
#9 The ultra-wealthy keep much of their wealth outside of the United States so that the government cannot tax it. It has been estimated that a third of all the wealth in the world (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/the-shadow-banking-system-a-third-of-all-the-wealth-in-the-world-is-held-in-offshore-banks) is held in "offshore" banks.
#10 Thanks to new corporate tax cuts in Japan, the United States now has the highest corporate tax rate (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/10-facts-about-corporate-taxes-that-will-make-your-blood-boil) in the developed world.
#11 Large corporations have become masters at avoiding taxes. Back in the 1950s, corporate taxes accounted for about 30 percent of all federal revenue, but in 2009 corporate taxes accounted for just 6.6 percent (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=4&hp).
#12 General Electric has been a great friend to the Obama administration. According to the New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/25/business/economy/25tax.html?_r=4&hp), General Electric made a total of 14.2 billion dollars in profits last year. So how much did they pay in taxes to the U.S. Treasury? According to the New York Times, not one penny was paid.
#13 Even though Boeing receives billions in federal subsidies every year and even though it has a bunch of juicy government contracts it did not pay a single penny (http://thinkprogress.org/2011/02/26/main-street-tax-cheats/) in federal corporate income taxes from 2008 to 2010.
#14 Exxon-Mobil paid $15 billion in taxes in 2009, but not a single penny (http://wonkroom.thinkprogress.org/2010/04/06/exxon-zero-taxes/) went to the U.S. government. Meanwhile, their CEO brought in over 29 million dollars in total compensation that year.
Unfortunately, the friction between the rich and the poor in this country is only going to get worse. As the U.S. economy crumbles and slowly dies, average Americans are going to get angrier and angrier. Millions are going to want to take their frustrations out on the wealthy.
In the years ahead things are going to become frightening. Eventually we are going to see economic riots all over the nation. As hunger and poverty abound, scores of homes in wealthy neighborhoods and middle class neighborhoods will be invaded and looted.
We are going to see things happen in the United States that we have never seen before and that very few people imagined that we would ever see. The people of the United States are not going to suffer through the coming economic nightmare with dignity and quiet determination.
Instead, there is going to be rampant rioting, violence and looting.
Rather than loving each other and working together to rebuild America, the people of this nation are being taught to hate one another and attack one another.
If you truly wanted to spread the wealth, you would want to change our system so that it promotes small businesses and the creation of jobs inside the United States.
But instead, our current system crushes small businesses, it ships jobs out of the United States and it greatly rewards the ultra-wealthy and the large corporations that know how to evade federal taxes almost completely

Good article...

SOURCE (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/tax-the-rich-14-facts-you-may-want-to-consider)

[Platapus]

I think we need to institute a redistribution of poverty policy. The poor need to share their poverty with rich. :yep:

[Platapus]

Good article...

Not really, nothing original. Same old talking points, same old message. Same old taking statistics out of context in order to make a point. :yawn:

[the_tyrant]

Why don't we tax the federal reserve?

[mookiemookie]

Why don't we tax the federal reserve?

Because they already return their investment profits to the Treasury.

[em2nought]

Middle class should just bail, convert to precious metals, and become expats. It's what I'm thinking of doing.

[Armistead]

Actually the article has much truth to it. It's never been about taxes, but we've cut the corporate tax rate way down since Reagan why at the same time increasing shelters and loopholes. Still, they make most of their money by buying regulation, to move all our jobs across seas where little regulation to protect workers apply.

They'll never fix regulation, loopholes and shelters. Those are gimmes from politicians. You could raise taxes double and they would still pay little. Sure, they pay a good chunk of personal income, but that's drops in the bucket to corporate taxes resulting in huge incomes.

In a global economy corporations will seek to balance the field. Simply, they want the average American worker to cost the same as who they pay in China, with no benefits or regulation. When we had true capitalism with no regulation we were basically a two class society. Americans fought for almost 100 years to get away from this, corporations today will and have undone that. Now again a few percent will hold all the wealth.

[Hottentot]

I think we need to institute a redistribution of poverty policy. The poor need to share their poverty with rich. :yep:

As the old story goes...

A communist and a social democrat meet.
"Comrade!" The communist exclaims joyously: "We are creating a new society! One where there will be no more rich oppressors!"
"I wish to see a society where there will be no more poor oppressed", replies the social democrat and leaves.

[Anthony W.]

Statement to be made here...

My father makes about 1.5 or 2 million per year.

How do we owe the banks 800 grand?

He's putting money out of his own pocket into the businesses to keep them floating when the weather is bad (gahh I hate how you can't golf in Indiana during the winter). That's how it is with a lot of businesses in my area. The owners are shoving their personal money into their businesses. Now, one of our main problems is property tax. We have about 1500 acres, with about 98% of that being used for business. Lota land.

[Armistead]

Some big myths, your average american pays plenty taxes when you total them, gas tax, sales tax, property tax, tax on about any service or item you buy or use.

The issue with corporations is regulation and trade laws, if we taxed the crap out of the stuff they make that comes from China, you would see small business be able to compete, that would force them to bring jobs home. I agree, give breaks to those that create jobs here.

As millions of jobs are shipped overseas, that leaves millions here without jobs that seek entitlements.

The government didn't just pay SS, unemployment, Medicare, most pay into those systems for year. No doubt cost are going up, so people should start paying more into medicare.

Why we have a high base corporate tax rate, they're able to use shelters and loopholes, in the end we pay the lowest rate with you take that into account.

The goal is never to let the right hand know what the left hand is doing.

We built the strongest middle class in the world when we had a high tax rate, fair trade law and correct regulation. One can see that getting a way to that has ruined this nation.

The biggest issue of course is spending...maybe when we finish rebuilding other nations spending trillions, will look at our own roads, etc.

[CaptainMattJ.]

well, we sure as hell need to close all loopholes and start investing heaviest in bettering conditions for small buisness owners and middle class alike.

And allow people to compete. Asia and other sources are mass producing products for nothing. Big industry meets the supply three times over. Farmers are literally slaves to the three main food companies. To get their paycheck from the companies, they must play by their rules. They make them pay for completely unnecessary upgrades to facilities, which are ungodly expensive, and hold the debt over their shoulders to keep them from getting away.

Invest in industry HERE, not in china. Invest in small buisnesses, NOT in the top guns. no more handouts, no more loopholes for the ultra-rich. No more impossible competition. No more illegals doing the dirty work. no more wars costing trillions. No more heavy investing in foreign aid. No more jerkoffs making imbecilic decisions for their own personal gain.

and thats just to name a few. frankly, with this big of an operation, with this parasite system of Corporations and politicians working in unison to stuff their own god damned wallets while strangling the working man, theres no other choice. We cant root this one out. We cant expect changing the people in the government will do anything. we need to completely change the system. and come down on these bastards with Unyeilding ungodly rath.

Small buisness needs a system that can give THEM a chance to breath. something that allows them to be able to survive. so that the working man can live decently on the wage he works his ass off for.

[Tribesman]

My father makes about 1.5 or 2 million per year.

Does he?
How do we owe the banks 800 grand?

Borrowed it perhaps?
He's putting money out of his own pocket into the businesses to keep them floating when the weather is bad
His own money, the companies money or the banks money?
Or all three?
That's how it is with a lot of businesses in my area.
That is how it is with business.
The owners are shoving their personal money into their businesses.
That is what an owner does, you put money in and if all goes well you take money out. Though he could go to a bank for a loan or try and get investors who will put money in with the aim of taking money out.
Now, one of our main problems is property tax.
Has property tax suddenly changed in a massive way or is that an expense the business should be planned to accomodate from day 1. After all your business revenue isn't counted till your liabilities have been covered.
Statement to be made here...

Yes, the statement questions if you know how a business works?

[Anthony W.]

Does he?

Borrowed it perhaps?

His own money, the companies money or the banks money?
Or all three?

That is how it is with business.

That is what an owner does, you put money in and if all goes well you take money out. Though he could go to a bank for a loan or try and get investors who will put money in with the aim of taking money out.

Has property tax suddenly changed in a massive way or is that an expense the business should be planned to accomodate from day 1. After all your business revenue isn't counted till your liabilities have been covered.

Yes, the statement questions if you know how a business works?

How bout this? Go **** yourself. You have no god damn place in my statement.

Can someone please explain to me how the block feature works on this forum?

[HunterICX]

Let me pull a Steve on you Anthony W

from the FAQ:

Please use language that you would use around your mother. No vulgarities, obscenities, hate speech, or foul language. Do not use *******ing w*rds with aster*cks, that's the same thing as vulgar language.

So watch that language will ya?

and as for the Ingore list

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_us ers

HunterICX

[nikimcbee]

I like bacon.:yeah:

[Morts]

I like bacon.:yeah:
Wrapped around porkchops, and sprinkled with paprika, its fantastic. :yeah:

[Tribesman]

How bout this? Go **** yourself. You have no god damn place in my statement.

An interesting viewpoint.
It doesn't make any sense though.
So young man, why do you not know how a business works?
How about some simple sums, if someones personal income appears sufficient to clear a bank liablity how much money is wasted in a single year on servicing an $800,000 debt(without considering any penalty clauses)?

By what proportion would the property taxes have to be raised in a year to negate any saving made in paying off a loan?

[Hottentot]

I like bacon.:yeah:

I can't afford bacon! :wah:

[gimpy117]

We need to end the tax havens, clear and simple.

[Tribesman]

We need to end the tax havens, clear and simple.
How?
How much would it cost?
How big would the political diplomatic and business fallout be?
How much would that fallout cost?

[Sailor Steve]

We need to end the tax havens, clear and simple.
Here in Utah we give a tax break for each child. Mormon families with 9 kids pay hardly any taxes. Their schooling is covered by folks who decided to help the population problem by not having any children. Is that what you meant.

We need to end taxes, clear and simple. Unfortunately that's not possible. What we need to do is reduce all government until it does nothing but govern. The Federal Government was created to keep the States on the straight and narrow and to present a solidified face to all other countries. That's it. Of course from the beginning that has not been all it's used for, and that can never be.

I don't think we'll ever be on the right track until all elected officials are of the opinion that taxes are a necessary evil. Since that will never happen, we'll never be on the right track.

All that said, I agree. If we're going to have taxes we need to keep people from avoiding them.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

All that said, I agree. If we're going to have taxes we need to keep people from avoiding them.:rotfl2: I'm 22 years-old now and I doubt that this would pass in Capitol Hill in my lifetime. Would be nice to proven to be wrong though.

[Anthony W.]

and as for the Ingore list

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/faq.php?faq=vb3_board_usage#faq_vb3_troublesome_us ers

HunterICX

Thank you, thank you, thank you more than words can express.

I ran a successful web hosting company along side my friend for 2 years before we sold it to some guy in Pennsylvania (just didn't have time to devote to the server upkeep) so that's one of the things that just sets me off - when people undermine my intelligence.

Either way, he's ignored now.

[yubba]

If the government is nationalizing businesses, then why isn't the government paying taxes ?? It's all crowney capitalism, pay to play, and it's the governments fault where we are at now it is almost treasonist, what they have done, and the only answers they got is turning us on each other, as they sneak out, like a thief in the night.

[Tribesman]

when people undermine my intelligence.

Young man, you undermined yourself from the word go and continue to do so on a regular basis.

ran a successful web hosting company along side my friend for 2 years before we sold it to some guy in Pennsylvania
Look there is an elephant riding a unicycle, that is not something you see every tuesday except the first tuesday of the month when they are a very regular sight

[August]

Either way, he's ignored now.

You should have done this when I first warned you about him and saved yourself a lot of irritation.

[Tribesman]

You should have done this when I first warned you about him and saved yourself a lot of irritation.
Is that the time his rather silly lies started unravelling and he got upset or the is it the time he got in a tizzy over maths when he didn't understand a question?:rotfl2:

[MH]

Bacon gets on some heads.

[Anthony W.]

You should have done this when I first warned you about him and saved yourself a lot of irritation.

I just figured out how to work the feature lol

[August]

Bacon gets on some heads.


Waste of good bacon sez I. :D

[nikimcbee]

Waste of good bacon sez I. :D
Is that thick sliced pepper bacon? McBee will be angry if good bacon is wasted. That slice of bacon could have fed a hungry boston for 2 seconds. Then he would beg for another piece.

http://www1.pictures.gi.zimbio.com/Sally+Struthers+Bambi+Jones+Tyler+Perry+Family+bB0 tQ8RvVzbl.jpg

[August]

Is that Sally Struthers?

[nikimcbee]

Is that Sally Struthers?
Winning!:woot::yeah:

[Webster]

untill every single last person on the goverment dole who gets a free ride has to pay a flat minimum tax on everything they recieve then nothing will be solved. if everyone pays the same tax rate poor and rich alike then the class warfare can stop and the control goverment has over our lives will fade away.

the lovely truth in this country is people living off of the goverment are stuck in a system specificly designed to keep them solely dependent on the goverments free handouts to survive and because of that, out of self preservation, they must never vote for anyone who wants to stop the free gravy train they need to survive, therefore the more poor people you have = more control of our lives by goverment who will make damn sure if you are poor you can never get unpoor because they made the rules designed to cut off all of the help you you need if you ever do anything to try to better yourself.

try to go to school or learn a new skill or trade = lose your benefits (because you arent available to work if you are a student)
do some odd jobs to supliment your low income = lose your benefits (because you have "some" income and it doesnt have to be a living wage just $1 and you have "some" income that disqualifies you according to the rules)
get a part time job = lose your benefits (same as above, even with proof you will starve to death without your benefits, you have to quit your job to get your benefits back or they will subtract dollar for dollar so you end up working totally for free)
sacrifice and save hard to put even as little as $1000 in the bank = lose your benefits (because you have assets of value so you have to blow it all at the casino before you get your benefits back)

[mookiemookie]

untill every single last person on the goverment dole who gets a free ride has to pay a flat minimum tax on everything they recieve then nothing will be solved. if everyone pays the same tax rate poor and rich alike then the class warfare can stop and the control goverment has over our lives will fade away.

What's going to raise more money? Raising taxes on the those who bring in 90% of the total wealth in this country, or the rest who bring in 10%? It's very simple math.

Class warfare? They started it. They're the ones who engineered the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis). Screw 'em. If the rich want a class war, we'll give it to them. They always lose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution) that fight anyways.

[Stealhead]

I say that congress should give the lower class and middle class free bacon if they did this the corporate powers could do as they pleased and eliminate the middle class(they will be so happy with the bacon) and congressmen will also love it because it is bacon and they can put those pork barrels they have to good use at at last no one will be calling it "pork barrel" spending any more they will just say, "mmmmm bacon!"

[Webster]

What's going to raise more money? Raising taxes on the those who bring in 90% of the total wealth in this country, or the rest who bring in 10%? It's very simple math.

Class warfare? They started it. They're the ones who engineered the greatest transfer of wealth from the middle class in history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late-2000s_financial_crisis). Screw 'em. If the rich want a class war, we'll give it to them. They always lose (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_Revolution) that fight anyways.

how about the 50% of all workers in america who pay $0.00 in taxes every year, even if they only pay $100 a year each thats billions in new tax revenue.

they will be paying taxes with the money goverment gives them so it costs them nothing but in turn, because they are paying taxes, the rules can be changed so they can be allowed to do the very things they want to do in order to better themselves and get out of the dependancy and poverty they live in which they arent allowed to do now under the excuse that its cost savings to cut anyones benefits if they dare to try to not be poor. :o :nope:

as to "If the rich want a class war, we'll give it to them." i missed the front page news where rich people came out and declared war on the poor and middle class? the rich never declared war on anyone anymore then that flower pot in the corner did.

i will give you a choice, there is a guy just like you standing over there and i tell you to choose to make him pay more so you dont have to pay anything for taxes or you and he will both pay the same percentage of your income. now how many people will choose to pay an equal amount based on their income or choose a free ride because they can?

thats why they cry about make the rich pay more and if i was rich and had to pay more then the 60% of my income i already pay then i would start laying off employees because if you cant keep your profits then you have no profits and if you have no profits why pay employees? you have no reason to risk losing money in a buisness if the reward you might get is taken away.

if YOU had to pay 60% of your paycheck in taxes would you think you need to pay more taxes just because congress likes to spend lots of money?

i will say this about the rich and upper middle class, there needs to be means testing to recieve social security. people who dont "need" it shouldnt get it because there are a huge number of people getting checks that are sucking the system dry when they have no real need for the money.

[Tchocky]

how about the 50% of all workers in america who pay $0.00 in taxes every year


[citation needed]

[mookiemookie]

i will give you a choice, there is a guy just like you standing over there and i tell you to choose to make him pay more so you dont have to pay anything for taxes or you and he will both pay the same percentage of your income. now how many people will choose to pay an equal amount based on their income or choose a free ride because they can?


And I'll respond with the same thing I said before: what's going to raise more money? Raising taxes on the those who bring in 90% of the total wealth in this country, or the rest who bring in 10%? It's very simple math.


[citation needed]

It's a red herring misrepresentation. 50% of Americans may pay no federal income tax, but that little nugget fails to count the payroll taxes they pay (Medicare & Social Security), the excise taxes they pay, sales tax, property tax, state income tax. It's complete bull.

That being said however, I am all for closing tax loopholes.

[Webster]

It's a red herring misrepresentation. 50% of Americans may pay no federal income tax, but that little nugget fails to count the payroll taxes they pay (Medicare & Social Security), the excise taxes they pay, sales tax, property tax, state income tax. It's complete bull.

the rich also pay all those same local and sales taxes on top of the income taxes and i was talking about the federal goverments taxes so the truth you wish to ignore might be bull in your mind but it is still there.

[mookiemookie]

the rich also pay all those same local and sales taxes on top of the income taxes and i was talking about the federal goverments taxes so the truth you wish to ignore might be bull in your mind but it is still there.

But you said 50% of workers pay no tax at all. That's demonstrably false. There's no truth to ignore, there's just the fact that you made a false statement. You don't get to move the goalposts and later say you didn't mean what you said.

[razark]

I am all for closing tax loopholes.
Which is apparently the same as saying "I want to raise taxes." from the way it gets reported.

[Growler]

Residents of Washington DC have on the license plates of their automobiles the legend, "Taxation Without Representation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_voting_rights)" in protest over the District's long-time lack of voting representation in the Congress of the US. The longer I look at it, the more sense those plates make.

[Webster]

But you said 50% of workers pay no tax at all. That's demonstrably false. There's no truth to ignore, there's just the fact that you made a false statement. You don't get to move the goalposts and later say you didn't mean what you said.

it is you moving the goal posts from federal taxes to lemonade stands and local sales taxes, not sure how you can explain how your going to make rich people pay more to buy the same ham sandwich you buy :hmmm: but im sure it makes sense to you.

even though this thread is talking about raising federal income taxes on the rich, yes yes lets split hairs :damn:

ok i will restate for your personal satisfaction:

50% of workers pay no INCOME tax at all

[August]

Which is apparently the same as saying "I want to raise taxes." from the way it gets reported.

Considering the fact that i'd have paid about 3 thousand bucks more in income taxes last year because I wouldn't have been able to deduct my mortgage interest, medical expenses and property taxes i'd consider it a tax increase as well.

[RickC Sniper]

In the OP #5 states that 45% of American households pay no income taxes.

I seriously doubt that 50% of "Working people" pay no taxes.


Scrap the entire tax code and tax everybody at a flat rate. 15% sounds good.

[RickC Sniper]

50% of workers pay no INCOME tax at all


Source??

How do they avoid the withholding on their weekly check?

[August]

Source??

How do they avoid the withholding on their weekly check?

Withholding doesn't mean they don't get it back at the end of the year.

[AVGWarhawk]

Between all the bacon, foul language and learning the ignore button is anyone wondering why GE is so comfy with Obama? GE will gain a lions share of business when the government turns on Obama Care! GE will be awarded contract upon contract concerning GE medical equipment installed in hospitals around the country. GE is heavy into lobbying. AND...

Clearly, the Comcast GE multimedia conglomerate will prove immensely profitable for the two companies now that the FCC/DOJ approval went through a few days ago.

Oddly enough, President Obama named now former GE Chairman and CEO Jeff Immelt to a new position inside the Administration. Immelt will be the Chairman on the Council on Jobs and Competitiveness. Wait! A General Electric CEO that had to be a part of the Comcast Cable merger with NBC/Universal is now named to a White House position! This is screwed up on so many levels! How can nobody see what is happening? GE was one of the President Obama's biggest campaign supporters and donors back in 2008 and now this happens! Don;t tell me the FCC and the DOJ were told to look the other way over this $30 billion deal.

http://gillreport.com/2011/01/what-is-the-obama-general-electric-connection/


Welcome to I scratch your back you scratch mine. It's never about taxes on the rich. It's about what you can do for me!

[mookiemookie]

Between all the bacon, foul language and learning the ignore button is anyone wondering why GE is so comfy with Obama? GE will gain a lions share of business when the government turns on Obama Care! GE will be awarded contract upon contract concerning GE medical equipment installed in hospitals around the country. GE is heavy into lobbying. AND...



http://gillreport.com/2011/01/what-is-the-obama-general-electric-connection/


Welcome to I scratch your back you scratch mine. It's never about taxes on the rich. It's about what you can do for me!

Another great one: just after the Comcast/NBC deal was approved, the commissioner of the FCC gets a juicy gig at Comcast.

Unbelievable. Welcome to the Corporatocracy: http://www.comcast.com/About/PressRelease/PressReleaseDetail.ashx?PRID=1082

[AVGWarhawk]

And back room dealings go deeper. It's all about power. Nothing to do with caring about anyone but themselves. Taxing the rich talk is nothing but a smoke screen....

[Skybird]

One thing should be clear. When watching at how Finland, Sweden, Germany went through the crisis (better than most), although they have relatively high taxes, and how lower taxes in the US do not create jobs and left the US economy in worst shape than these European countries nevertheless, and when considering the high debts of the US, then there is hardly a reasonable claim to make why the US should not increase taxes/tax income. The US tried its old ways over the past years, and I cannot see that it worked. Plus there is a debt burden so high that it threatens to completely paralyse the state and taking it hostage, leaving it no freedom to move, act, form and decide anymore.

There is also no doubt that US big business is allowed more tax evasion opportunities than in other any Western country. And when considering how proverbial Greek tax evasion cleverness has become, this really means something! Some major corporations do not only pay no effective taxes, but even get revenues from the state in return. I linked to some according facts on that maybe two months ago, did I. So, beside tax raises the closing of tax loopholes also is a big big big big big issue. And no surprise - plenty of lobbying is being run to prevent right this. Those benefitting from the flawed tax system in the US are too powerful and too influential as that they just have to accept without resistence these benfits being taken away from them, and them being made ordinary subjects of the tax laws like everybody else.

Biden currently is in China, and the US finances will be the major issue, no doubt. I would not like to be in his place.

[Gerald]

A tax increase is inevitable in the long term.

[Jimbuna]

And back room dealings go deeper. It's all about power. Nothing to do with caring about anyone but themselves. Taxing the rich talk is nothing but a smoke screen....

Sounds like this isn't endemic to the US only Chris......I know there is a similar feeling amongst the working classes her in the UK and during these times of austerity, those feelings appear to be growing momentum.

[Growler]

The rotten thing about the whole scene is that, if we remove the professional politicians from the scene and reduce the size of the government, thereby reducing the expense of the government, we reduce the tax burden on the entire country.

The only reason this is even a discussion is because We the People have abdicated our own responsibilities to ourselves and each other by electing professional politicians to "take care of us." I don't know about you guys, but I can take care of myself, thanks.

On a fairly mainstream morning radio show this morning, I heard one of the crew comment that, "People are fed up" with the government. If it's mainstream enough that it goes out over the airwaves to the public, and many of us here are talking about just that... why are we still having this discussion? Are there really no better options?

A few days ago, on a different station (NPR), I heard Dr. Bill Frist (former Tenessee Senator) comment in regard to food aid to Somalia being stolen by the government (what of it there is) there: "The whole idea that governments are not going to be corrupt is naive." (6:11 in the audio HERE (http://www.npr.org/player/v2/mediaPlayer.html?action=1&t=1&islist=false&id=139678593&m=139680623)).

Maybe we should look to our own, first, before we start working over others?

I still think a uniform flat-tax of 17.5% - 20% across the board (half to Fed, half to State), regardless of income or income source, is the best solution. Sure, it sucks, especially for anyone who's not had to pay taxes for whatever reason, but I think it's a good way to get EVERYONE in the country aligned with making the country better, rather than advancing the agenda of one party this term, the other the next cancelling this one and advancing their own, and on and on, ad infinitum.

About the only concessions I'd even entertain discussion on would be to servicemembers and non-union police/firefighters.