Manual Plotting of Target

[asadmk]

Hi guys, sorry if this topic is posted before.I m new to SH4.How do we plot a target's course manually when we r on surface.In SH3 there was an option of asking ur watch officer for Nearest Visual Contact.He would tell u the range n bearing.It was lot easier to plot in SH3.But it seems like there is no officers panel in SH4.And how to access ur Watch Officer in SH4.Please any help will b greatly appreciated.

[BillBam]

Depends on what mods you have and also what game settings you have (such as map contacts on or off?)

[asadmk]

I m playing Stock updated to 1.4 version.No i m playing at 86% realism with map contacts off.

[CapnScurvy]

First off, Welcome asadmk to the forum!!

I'm going to assume a couple of things, that you're playing with the option of manual targeting "Enabled", and you have a basic idea of manual targeting through the SHIII game. I'm wondering if you ever ran across an SHIII modder named "Wazoo" who had a very good tutorial for manual targeting by using the navigation map to plot a target with the contacts off? This was back in 2005.

When the SH4 game came out in 2007 I made a tutorial that followed his ideas, focused on the SH4 game changes, and explained the different tools involved in making a map plot for use in determining a firing solution. Take a look at this tutorial named "High Realism Tutorial" found HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom//downloads.php?do=file&id=907).

If you play the German side there are some distinct disadvantages to overcome compared to the American side. The American "Position Keeper" keeps track of the relative and true north bearings by input through the Attack Data Tool. If you know what you're looking at, the dials on the PK can help in a plot calculation. No such device exists for the German side, so a calculator I made (again following the Wazoo tutorial but with a couple of new features) helps in putting bearings into perspective and allows the navigation map to become your plotting board for an eventual firing solution. The "AoB Calculator" is not necessary for the American side since the Position Keeper dials do a good job of giving you the information you'll need to make a plot, the German side benefits the most with the calculator. A better looking calculator than the one I originally made (but follows the same design principles) can be found HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=153347). You will need to print the calculator parts and cut them out for assembly (use hard stock paper).

Whether you play the German or American side, the "High Realism Tutorial" will give you a good explanation of the tools involved and procedures necessary to make a navigation map plot of known targets. Good luck with manual targeting. It's the only way I play, and always rewarding when you take the raw information you glean and turn them into a successful firing solution outcome.

[asadmk]

Thanks for the help Cap.It looks complex but with some practice i will b able to plot manually now.But to be frank manual plotting in SH III was very easy.But it will do.Are there other ways of plotting?Can u guide me plz.Thank u 1nce again.

[CapnScurvy]

I'll help you, but you will need to read the tutorial to get a grasp of what is needed to do a successful manual plot. I don't want to rehash what's already been covered in the tutorial.

Here's a question for you, which side are you playing? German or American? That will narrow down the possibilities.

I'll agree "it's complicated". No doubt, there's a learning curve to manual targeting. After all, you're going to preform the duties of several men (captain, navigator, weapons officer, helmsman, sonar man, chief cook and bottle washer). You won't have time to do everything without getting a bit unrealistic by pausing the game from time to time to do all the duties necessary. I point that out in the tutorial. After a while, you'll be able to make a smooth transition from one job to the next, creating a more realistic "feel" to doing several tasks at once. Again, the first step for you is to read the tutorial to understand what you really don't understand.

[Fish40]

[quote] "I m playing Stock updated to 1.4 version.No i m playing at 86% realism with map contacts off. "


I guess that means he's playing the American side.:yep:

[CapnScurvy]

Yep, my mistake.

One other thing. For testing out your ability to try manual targeting in an environment that places a target on a path passing in front of your sub, try this test mission found HERE. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=668)

This will keep you from hunting all over the Pacific to find a target, to test your manual targeting skills. After the mission is loaded in-game (its JSGME compatible) you will find the "High Realism Test with Nippon" in the "Quick Missions" menu of the game. Remember to go to the "Realism" menu (found at the bottom of the Quick Missions page) to set your game options.

[asadmk]

Great i m getting it now.By reading it again and again i m getting use to it now.Nice work Cap really nice tutorial.Yes i can hit a target passing right in front of me thats easy.But i was talking about a target just spotted by watch officer.(That is on High Realism).First thing i want to know is where is it heading so i can run a parallel course relative to his.Then collect all the necessary data and get to an interception point.1 more question does 3:15 rule apply in SH IV? Thank you Cap for your constant replies.

[sharkbit]

1 more question does 3:15 rule apply in SH IV?

Use the 3 minute rule when using imperial measurements. Yards traveled in 3 minutes divided by 100=speed in knots. Or just drop the two zeroes.

Example: 600 yards in 3 minutes= 6 knots.

To get course after first spotting, you need to be patient and observe your target. Get range and bearing, plot on the map. Wait 3 minutes, range and bearing, plot. Now you have at least a rough course and speed and you can adjust your course and speed as needed. Continue to plot and refine your data.

One thing I do when a ship is first spotted is turn my bow(or stern if conditions make it necessary) directly on him. Then you can kinda get a visual on which way he is moving and start plotting.

:)

[CapnScurvy]

Ok, good to hear you read the basic concept. Although the tutorial has you (the sub) at a standstill, you still can plot while on the run to catch-up to a target. You need to have two pieces of information to make a guess of where the target is. It's relative position to the sub (at the time you make the first plot of position) and its approximate range.

The relative position is drawn out on a line with the compass tool on the navigation map. Once the line is extended out from the sub far enough, you know it's along this line the target is positioned. But where? That's when you take a reading for range by using sonar (if there are no escorts around, they perk up right away when you make a ping), or with the stadimeter. There are two other ways of getting a range reading (using the telemeter divisions on the scope, or radar if you have it) but they are both flawed with the stock game. Actually, the stadimeter is flawed too (incorrect mast heights in the Recognition Manual) so the sonar is your best pick until you mod the game to correct its inacuracies and shortcomings.

Now you have a spot along the relative bearing line you first made to mark for an approximate position of the target. I would slow down and not change course until you take a speed check with the rule of three minutes for Imperial (as you asked about) to help in determining the targets speed. Repeat the two above readings (relative position of the target, approximate range along this line) and mark the position on the map. You now have the distance the target traveled between the two marked positions for speed calculation, you also have the basic heading of the target by drawing a line between the two marked points.

This is the time you get on your horse and make like its Friday nite and your heading to town!! Get into your intercept position, well ahead of the target to do the map plot readings all over again. Stay clear of the target to avoid it picking up on your presence. Once in position, take the readings again to confirm your original findings of speed and target heading. Don't be surprised if you need to make adjustments. You may need to allow the target to pass completely before surfacing and do an "end run" around the target again to set up in a more accurate position.

Back to the original sighting of the target. If a range reading is not possible to make (maybe due to being too far away), you can still find the relative bearing line useful for getting a targets approximate heading. Making two lines, several minutes apart, will tell you in what direction the target is heading. This can allow you to move in that direction to set up for a better "first position" plot.

[asadmk]

O thats great,now i m crystal clear.I m doing good now really.Thank u thank u so much both of u CapnScurvy and Sharkbit.:up:

[MikeVictor]

I've installed RSRD and the Pacific Environment mods and some other graphics mods. when I select use manual attack planing in the gameplay options, I can not do that in the game. I can enter the range using the dial, but not the AoB and not the speed. I do not see a checkbox to turn off the Weapons Officer help in the gameplay options either...

Not sure why, can someone tell me what I need to do to due full attack planing?

Mike

[Diopos]

If you are playing a career you change gameplay option while you are in port (in the office) by clicking on the radio on the bookshelf on the left.

.

[Daniel Prates]

I never really understood why people bother so much with the 3-minute-rule. Doesn't the TDC speed estimate dial does the very same calculation? I mean, to manually use the 3-minute-rule, you have to gather two different range/ditance readings with your stadimenter and draw them on the map. The speed estimate dial on the TDC will do just that, only mechanicaly!

Clearly I'm missing something. What is it?

[razark]

Clearly I'm missing something. What is it?
With the three-minute rule, you don't need to enter the data into the TDC. I will usually draw out the position on the map, and only once in a while update the TDC. Saves me a bit of workload.

When working beyond visual range with radar, I don't always have an accurate bearing, so that will throw the tool off, as well. I'll use the tool as a sanity check on what I have, but if you don't enter correct data, you don't get good estimates. I've seen the tool give me 80+ knot estimates and courses headed in the opposite direction too often for me to trust only to the tool.

Once I get into visual range and go to periscope depth, I will use the tool to double check my speed/course information and stop drawing it on the map. I've caught a decent number of zigs right before firing that way.


That said, the three minute rule is another tool you have available. The more tools you have, and are able to use, the more adaptable you can be.

[Daniel Prates]

That said, the three minute rule is another tool you have available. The more tools you have, and are able to use, the more adaptable you can be.

Thanks for the briefing. Yeah, I suppose its a matter of playing style. I always try my best (via weather advantages, lightning advantages etc.) to simply dive in front of the convoy or target and await him there, until it is close enough for a complete visual targeting. By then, the TDC is all I need, specially if I set torpedoes to high speed.

On the other hand, you are talking about procedures usefull during shadowing and long-range attacks and aproaches, a situation in which I must admit I never find myself near to being ready to fire or to plan anything but stand-offish aproaches.

I guess I should start trying that too. You're completely right, the more tools you have, the better. ;)

[CapnScurvy]

Basically it's the "same" difference between auto targeting and manual targeting. With auto targeting, you let someone else (the computer) do the figuring for you. With manual targeting you're taking on the roles of several crewmen to come up with a firing solution. They both have the same goal, just different approaches to the problem.

Having the navigation map become a plotting board and having the player figure his position in relationship to the targets is simply taking manual targeting to a higher level. It may not be "realistic" that the Captain does all these various jobs to attain a firing solution, but who says having him blast to pieces a target sitting behind the deck gun is realistic either?

It takes all kinds of ways to play the game, some more tedious than others. Thanks goodness we have a choice.