Sarah's speech in Wisconsin was hot tea

[yubba]

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/you-won-feisty-palin-fires-up-wisconsin-tea-party-crowd/ You go girl, man I got goose bumps all up and down my legs, or that could be something else, can't tell in my old age.:woot:

[Gerald]

Luckily I did not read everything, do not want to ruin my sleep....

[yubba]

What, did I step on your toes again, I sware I didn't see a post, she got me all excited, and my leg is still tingly or it's asleep, she so hot.

[Gerald]

Calm and nice, you have not stepped on my feet, hot, the word must be deep-reviewed

[Oberon]

:hmmm:

No...no...too late in the night/early in the morning to make sense of this...

I'll try again tomorrow/later today.

[MH]

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR0wvDe3ipayl0gX2tvQUmmZbbTQXV2a l4qoBVDXHN_bMinZiSxuw


Yes she is hot.....:oops:

[Gerald]

The curtain was just down in the first act...

[Torplexed]

Sad commentary on my way of making ballot choices, but if Sarah Palin had half the hot body that all these internet Photoshop pixel jockeys keep sticking her head on, I'd probably vote for her. :D :oops:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PqRPNq5yWPg/TPZD56oCo3I/AAAAAAAAACU/b37P9YCuFPM/s1600/sarah_palin_5.jpg

[MH]

I would Vote for them too.:D

[Gerald]

Sad commentary on my way of making ballot choices, but if Sarah Palin had half the hot body that all these internet Photoshop pixel jockeys keep sticking her head on, I'd probably vote for her. :D :oops:

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PqRPNq5yWPg/TPZD56oCo3I/AAAAAAAAACU/b37P9YCuFPM/s1600/sarah_palin_5.jpg Well I can see way, :D She may have problems with her back also

[yubba]

Hot for teacher. Even Dowly would like those.

[Gerald]

Pay me 50 grand and I "think about it"

[Gerald]

I would Vote for them too.:D Ahh...only them,I see..

[Armistead]

Every time she opens her mouth, I want to stick a gun in mine...

[gimpy117]

Looks like a young Republicans wet dream... :haha:

Im a young democrat...and I can assure you that her in any office that could effect me is my worst nightmare. Thank god i don't live in Alaska.

[GoldenRivet]

I guess the whole thing i dont understand about the Wisconsin situation is:

why do government employees deserve more rights and privileges than privately employed individuals?

Why should taxpayer money be used to supplement the retirement of a government employee who put almost nothing into his own pension fund?

Why does a government employee, protected by so many laws and regulations pertaining to occupational health and safety need collective bargaining rights that expand to anything beyond wage?

[Feuer Frei!]

And just wondering, is there actually anyone here that respects her? As a human being? Family person? Mother?
Not wanting to stir up a hornet's nest here but, i kind of feel for her, regardless of her lack of political prowess or know-how.
The ridicule and sexist jokes and remarks she cops is pretty bewildering.
Sure she's good-looking but does it really warrant the inuendos and sexual conotations?
Kind of shallow really.
My 2 cents worth.

[GoldenRivet]

And just wondering, is there actually anyone here that respects her? As a human being? Family person? Mother?
Not wanting to stir up a hornet's nest here but, i kind of feel for her, regardless of her lack of political prowess or know-how.
The ridicule and sexist jokes and remarks she cops is pretty bewildering.
Sure she's good-looking but does it really warrant the inuendos and sexual conotations?
Kind of shallow really.
My 2 cents worth.

Its pretty despicable the things some people will say about a woman - any woman.... event if it is Palin.

[mookiemookie]

And just wondering, is there actually anyone here that respects her? As a human being? Family person? Mother?


How can you respect her as a family person and a mother when she blatantly uses her family as political tools?

[gimpy117]

How can you respect her as a family person and a mother when she blatantly uses her family as political tools?

or when she preaches "family values" but couldn't even stop her daughter from getting knocked up?

[August]

How can you respect her as a family person and a mother when she blatantly uses her family as political tools?

The same way you respect Obama and Clinton when they use their families for their same reasons.

Now i'm no fan of Palin, as far as i'm concerned she left the keys to the White House on the Governors desk when she walked out, but the eagerness with which the Progressives will abandon their ideological principles and become sexist bigots when it comes to this woman, and her family, is downright scary.

I guess social equality is only for those with the right politics.

[nikimcbee]

The same way you respect Obama and Clinton when they use their families for their same reasons.

Now i'm no fan of Palin, as far as i'm concerned she left the keys to the White House on the Governors desk when she walked out, but the eagerness with which the Progressives will abandon their ideological principles and become sexist bigots when it comes to this woman, and her family, is downright scary.

I guess social equality is only for those with the right politics.

This. I'll just add the "race" issue too. Could you imagine if she was black?

[Armistead]

I actually never comment about her looks, decent, but not great. Really, I don't blame her for being who she is, but she is a prime example of how people will fall for anything. Let's face it, this woman is not that bright, she's a past fundy speaking in tongues God is for war believer...sorry, that's not someone I want carrying the key to the football.

[mookiemookie]

I actually never comment about her looks, decent, but not great. Really, I don't blame her for being who she is, but she is a prime example of how people will fall for anything. Let's face it, this woman is not that bright, she's a past fundy speaking in tongues God is for war believer...sorry, that's not someone I want carrying the key to the football.

This too. There are those that use "elitist" like it's a pejorative, and hold up her brand of willfull ignorance as some sort of folksy, homespun, gosh darnit common sense that we should all aspire to.

Well guess what? I want the elites in charge. I want the smart people running things. I want the people who can see the nuance in geopolitical situations. I want people in charge that have political positions that don't fit on a bumper sticker. Palin just isn't it.

The same way you respect Obama and Clinton when they use their families for their same reasons.

I don't recall Chelsea, Barbara, Jenna, Sasha or Malia being a central theme of Clinton, Bush or Obama's campaigns.

[Feuer Frei!]

How can you respect her as a family person and a mother when she blatantly uses her family as political tools?
Let me rephrase my last post to "human being" then.
Let's just make it a general scenario then, leave out all the political motifs, the size of her boobs, how small her IQ MAY be, all that and the tiring garbage photo-chopping and crass and crude remarks and xxx-rated images that flood the net and respect her as a human being.
Is that too much to ask?
I'm not necessarily having a crack at you or anyone else for that matter here, although i must say a few comments were slipped in there about her physical advantages or a few(i must admit fairly mild sexual inuendos) but surely, are we any better than the single-minded sexually deprived crass and disrespecting people out in the big wide world who continuously do the above?
It gets my nut, it really does.
It's boring, unoriginal, and quiet frankly pretty shallow to stoop to that.
Human nature you say? Ridiculing? Making funny sexual jokes about a married woman who has kids and a husband?
Yea, very classy that.
If you have a problem with her politics, then stick to her (alleged) political short-comings.
Don't bring cheap shots into it, or alluding to what you would like to do to her, or the like.
Yea, i'm a man, no i'm not gay and yea i'll stick up for women :up:
Note: none of the above is DIRECTLY pointed at you, mookiemookie

[AVGWarhawk]

What gets me is many say how stupid she is. A complete idiot, etc. Yet, she commands a crowd and a following. Do not think for a minute she is a nonfactor in today's politcal world.

[mookiemookie]

What gets me is many say how stupid she is. A complete idiot, etc. Yet, she commands a crowd and a following.

So does Jersey Shore.

[Armistead]

So does Jersey Shore.


:har::har::har:

[August]

So does Jersey Shore.

So does Star Trek but neither of which are about politics so they are hardly indicators on the quality of people who support Palin politically.

I don't recall Chelsea, Barbara, Jenna, Sasha or Malia being a central theme of Clinton, Bush or Obama's campaigns.

You have a selective memory then Mookie. All of them used their family to promote their campaigns and after reaching office. Do I really have to dig up some photo op shots?

[NeonSamurai]

And just wondering, is there actually anyone here that respects her? As a human being? Family person? Mother?
Not wanting to stir up a hornet's nest here but, i kind of feel for her, regardless of her lack of political prowess or know-how.
The ridicule and sexist jokes and remarks she cops is pretty bewildering.
Sure she's good-looking but does it really warrant the inuendos and sexual conotations?
Kind of shallow really.
My 2 cents worth.
Its pretty despicable the things some people will say about a woman - any woman.... event if it is Palin.

I agree, and frankly I think some of the comments I am seeing here are going well beyond the bounds of acceptable behavior for Subsim. So let this be a warning to all. I strongly suggest easing back on the sexual references/attacks in this thread or infractions will follow.

Personally I cannot stand Palin on many levels (I find her very repellent). But I would never attack her on the level I am seeing here, no matter how physically attractive (or unattractive) she is. It is much better to go after what she stands for, then who she is (which is a fallacious argument). I don't care what side of the fence a person is on, these sorts of attacks gain equal contempt from me.



What gets me is many say how stupid she is. A complete idiot, etc. Yet, she commands a crowd and a following. Do not think for a minute she is a nonfactor in today's politcal world.

Of course given her behavior, one has to wonder about the type of people she is attracting in this following of hers. The only good thing, at least is for the moment, is that she is still well on the fringe.

[mookiemookie]

So does Star Trek but neither of which are about politics so they are hardly indicators on the quality of people who support Palin politically. You're missing the point. AVG implied that popularity implies intelligence. I presented a counter argument.



You have a selective memory then Mookie. All of them used their family to promote their campaigns and after reaching office. Do I really have to dig up some photo op shots?

You can probably find photos of presidents with their family up on stage going back 100 years. But I don't recall things like this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece

[MH]

Of course given her behavior, one has to wonder about the type of people she is attracting in this following of hers. The only good thing, at least is for the moment, is that she is still well on the fringe.

Is there some sort of serious middle line in US politics?
To me as outsider Obama seems the best Americans can have.
I'm not talking about his rosy foreign politics with which i disagree.

[NeonSamurai]

As far as I can tell there are different gradients in the two main camps. You have more extreme and more central elements in each. I myself count Palin more in the extreme fringe of things, than central conservative.

[Ducimus]

Every time she opens her mouth, I want to stick a gun in mine...

I'm surprised anyone really , and seriously listens to her, or anyone like her. I don't even have to read the article to know it was more firebrand rhetoric, boilerplate, emotionally charged babble, and generally catered to the far right in a feel good kinda way.

These people (the far right) from everything i've ever seen, are devoid of logic, reason, and practicality. It's always emotionally charged rhetoric and little else. This is what has pushed me away from the right and more towards center. Logic, reason, and practicality, in my mind is what i want in government. Not "feel good" talk and rhetoric.

They open their mouth like they have, and i move further away. Now, i don't even listen anymore. All crediblity in my eyes, is lost. Not that the left is much better, but they're rhetoric level is nowhere near the level of the rights. Which is the only thing that makes the left remotely tolerable.

[AVGWarhawk]

AVG implied that popularity implies intelligence.


No I didn't. I said plenty say she is stupid, dumb, unintelligent however she still draws a crowd. Nowhere did I say popularity implies intelligence. If that is the case then your Jersey Shore comment makes Snooky a friggin genius.

[AVGWarhawk]

So does Jersey Shore.

Jersey shore is not politically based nor draws a political crowd. This comment worthless in this thread.

[mookiemookie]

No I didn'nt. I said plenty say she is stupid, dumb, unintelligent however she still draws a crowd. Nowhere did I say popularity implies intelligence. If that is the case then your Jersey Shore comment makes Snooky a friggin genius.

Jersey shore is not politically based nor draws a political crowd. This comment worthless in this thread.

"Worthless." Allow me to borrow from Tribesman's playbook here: :har::har::har:

Saying "she's stupid yet still has a large following" means either: A) she's not stupid because her large following vindicates her intelligence, i.e. popularity implies intelligence or B) she's stupid and has a large following because there's a lot of stupid people out there.

Either way... :har:

Jersey Shore has a large following too. It doesn't mean it's intelligent or worthwhile. Kind of like Mrs. Palin.

[AVGWarhawk]

When you start quoting Tribesman it is time for some original thought of your own. :03:

Again, it was not implied. You implied it. Something draws people to this woman. I did not say it was intelligence. You can back pedal all you like. You will not find were I said she is intelligent and this is the reason she draws crowds.


Jersey Shore has a large following too.


Once again...not politically.

[August]

You're missing the point. AVG implied that popularity implies intelligence. I presented a counter argument.

But we're not talking about just any kind of popularity are we. She has a political following. Nobody supports a looser unless their message is compelling.

You can probably find photos of presidents with their family up on stage going back 100 years. But I don't recall things like this: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/us_elections/article4837644.ece

Actually it displays the liberal hypocrisy quite clearly.

It's a third party comment, not even attributed to a specific person, about the possibility that Palins daughter might get married before the election and what effect it might have on her mothers popularity.

How can you not see the spin?

[Armistead]

It's fairly obvious, she draws many from the more extreme religious right.
When someone with more extreme religious views talks, it will pull that crowd, but anytime someone wants to mix their view of God and politics, scares the crap out of me.

It was probably the liberals that made her famous, but she did suffer from stupidity when she opened her mouth, probably the worse to ever interview. Even now her political career is done, but can't blame her for
staying in the media, making her rich.

We must also remember she had her own reality show....Her shooting that moose was a joke, controlled, probably let out of a cage and just stood there as she missed several times.

I don't much blame her for being stupid politically, I blame McCain for taking her knowing little about her. She's probably a decent average person, just no clue how the world works. She's more studied now, but still just the same talking points.

[AVGWarhawk]

but anytime someone wants to mix their view of God and politics


This has been happening for the past 200 years here in these great United States. :03:

[vienna]

Apparently Sarah had sought some outside advice:


http://c0389161.cdn.cloudfiles.rackspacecloud.com/dyn/str_strip/350738.full.gif (http://comics.com/9_chickweed_lane/2011-01-16/)

[Armistead]

This has been happening for the past 200 years here in these great United States. :03:

Yep, we can see that by the harm done by it....

[AVGWarhawk]

Yep, we can see that by the harm done by it....

Yes and no. At one time perhaps it was prudent God and politics was intermingled for a purpose of good. The country was loaded with people escaping religious persecution. From that, laws, bylaws created by newly designed politcal body that incorporated religion into a whole train of thought. Perhaps today that thought is not required anymore? We can not emphatically state that because a crowd is drawn to those that speak religion and politics all be it stupid or selling snake oil.

[Armistead]

Yes and no. At one time perhaps it was prudent God and politics was intermingled for a purpose of good. The country was loaded with people escaping religious persecution. From that, laws, bylaws created by newly designed politcal body that incorporated religion into a whole train of thought. Perhaps today that thought is not required anymore? We can not emphatically state that because a crowd is drawn to those that speak religion and politics all be it stupid or selling snake oil.

I agree, it's how they portray it. Even liberals will make statements on God.
It's when it becomes obvious a person wants to push their religious views through politics it becomes a problem.

History has taught us clearly when politics and religion mix the outcome is usually controlling and dire..

Sarah's made those kind of statements, that God is for the war, God is for this or that. She was a member of a fairly fundy pentacostal church, just watch the video's of her pastor praying over her. I thought after he got done he would give her a sword to slay all non believers, gay, muslims, etc..

Mike Huckabee is a fundy, but he also seems smart and honest, Sarah doesn't come across as either.

[August]

I agree, it's how they portray it. Even liberals will make statements on God.
It's when it becomes obvious a person wants to push their religious views through politics it becomes a problem.

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?

[AVGWarhawk]

God is for the war


I'm not sure how anyone could say God is for the war or any war for that matter. Speaking of which, religion has been the cause of many wars for over 2000 years.

[mookiemookie]

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?

Strawman argument.

Palin has made comments in the past that say that the government should be based on Christianity:

"Lest anyone try to convince you that God should be separated from the state, our founding fathers, they were believers," said Palin. "And George Washington, he saw faith in God as basic to life."

another:

“I think we should keep this clean, keep it simple, go back to what our founders and our founding documents meant,” she said. “They’re quite clear that we would create law based on the God of the Bible and the 10 commandments, it’s pretty simple.”

Pushing your religion by saying that the government should be based around it makes you a proponent of a theocracy - how is that any different than any of the Middle Eastern countries based on Islam and Sharia?

[AVGWarhawk]

Pushing your religion by saying that the government should be based around it makes you a proponent of a theocracy - how is that any different than any of the Middle Eastern countries based on Islam and Sharia?

Good question and it does not make it any different. As stated above, religion has co-mingled in politics/law of the land since inception of laws of the land/politics.

[Armistead]

I'm sure I would not have missed hearing about Sarah Palin telling anyone who they were allowed to believe in or not. What exactly do you mean by pushing religious views? Are you saying that politicians shouldn't be allowed to believe in God?


Sure, but I have a problem when any party uses religion to promote an agenda.

Palin, her past church and pastors are all known "Dominionist" that christians should take over public office and create a christian only state and impose christian doctrine by law. She runs from it now, but too many video's of her speaking on it at church and meetings. She even stated in the last days people will flock to Alaska to escape the NWO and the church needed to be ready to take care of them...and of course offerings were taken up.

Simply, another Reformation...

All one need do is watch her interviews, enough to make you cringe that she even had a chance in the White House.

Really watch the last part of the interview when the radical preacher speaks then prays over Sarah...Listen to what he said, getting rid of all over religions through government, etc...scary stuff.

I'll all for the local church, people telling others about their beliefs, but also for people having the right to chose what they believe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sixDDLSN46s

[Armistead]

Good question and it does not make it any different. As stated above, religion has co-mingled in politics/law of the land since inception of laws of the land/politics.

Certainly it has. Let's face it in about 400AD when christianity mixed with Rome, it became more political, eventually as powerful. That went on for hundreds of years, along with mass wars, torture, etc.. all in the name of God. Eventually man saw the evil of it and secular law became more powerful. However, residue from our past is still in politics today and many would love a christian theocracy running things. The problem is any time this has happened it was used to control people, not help them.

The GOP is basically for corporations, non funding of programs for the poor, etc, then they want God in government. I'm not sure what God these people serve, Christ commanded to take care of the poor, sick, widows, children, etc....they certainly don't want any of that through government, but have no problems pushing religious ideals through government.

[yubba]

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion, why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country, if you have a godless country you have a lawless country, just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you. These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them. If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

[AngusJS]

Its pretty despicable the things some people will say about a woman - any woman.... event if it is Palin.

this Kagan chick is a fat ignorant sow.
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=171703

:)

[nikimcbee]

Palin, her past church and pastors are all known "Dominionist" that christians should take over public office and create a christian only state and impose christian doctrine by law. She runs from it now, but too many video's of her speaking on it at church and meetings. She even stated in the last days people will flock to Alaska to escape the NWO and the church needed to be ready to take care of them...and of course offerings were taken up.


With all of the huffing and puffing over her religion, I'm not worried about her imposing Christian law (so to speak). They said the same thing with JFK, that he would be a pawn of the pope:haha::doh:

But I heard Romney was after you personally:D:haha:... and if he gets elected....:cool:


All one need do is watch her interviews, enough to make you cringe that she even had a chance in the White House.



Agreed. I would worry about her foreign policy. It would (imo) be the polar opposite of the bamsters, which I don't like either. I want someone in the middle on FP, no hawks, no doves.

[August]

Palin has made comments in the past that say that the government should be based on Christianity

So what?

Does any of it justify the sexism and bigotry that is continually displayed against this woman? Opposing her political beliefs is one thing but the things that have been said about her and especially her family have been unarguably reprehensible.

[Growler]

So what?

Does any of it justify the sexism and bigotry that is continually displayed against this woman? Opposing her political beliefs is one thing but the things that have been said about her and especially her family have been unarguably reprehensible.

Is it unjust? Yep. Does it happen all the time? Yep.

Obama's citizenship is called into question by many; Palin's gender/religion are called into question. Kerry's service was called into question; photoshopped pics of him and Hanoi Jane, though debunked, served to brand his campaign ever after.

If you want ethics, look elsewhere. Once a person puts themselves in the public eye, especially for political office, expect the worst from their opponents. It's how we come to expect the game to be played, and it's all part of the "show" anymore. It sucks... it's dishonest, unethical, crude, and yes - reprehensible - what both sides will do to discredit the other. And it's business as usual until enough Americans decide that we're tired of being the ones to foot the bills and still get the smelly end of the stick.

[Armistead]

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion, why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country, if you have a godless country you have a lawless country, just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you. These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them. If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Not much trouble, not sure what you mean, our codes of laws first created by them gave everyone to seek God as they pleased with no interference.

I actually find liberals much more moral than the right, but certainly no side has a a monopoly of morals in government.

I guess we could bring back the churches old tools to keep people in line, you know, burnings, beheadings, cagings, disemboweled. Actually, I think I know a few here that could use some prayer in the old fashion..:O:

[nikimcbee]

I guess we could bring back the churches old tools to keep people in line, you know, burnings, beheadings, cagings, disemboweled. Actually, I think I know a few here that could use some prayer in the old fashion..:O:

You mean, sharia law?

[Platapus]

I want the people who can see the nuance in geopolitical situations.

That was one of the things that made me cringe about President Bush when he said that, in the context of foreign policy, that he does not do nuance.

:o

Foreign policy is nothing but nuance! :yep:

[Armistead]

You mean, sharia law?

One in the same really, glad we got secular enough to do away with it here, course did take us awhile to get rid of slavery and give women rights, that wasn't really that long ago.

Don't get me wrong, I think faith is a good thing when it seeks to help and love others, not
control them or push man made codes of conduct on what morals mean.

[Ducimus]

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Hello hot button, called Religious ramrodding.

Screw that noise. I have enough strength of character to know right from wrong without the aid of an invisible all knowing father figure to tell me what to do. Unfortunately, not everyone in our society has the same strength of character, and needs a crutch. I'm guessing you need a crutch.

Here's your crutch. Enjoy.
http://fireintheocean.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/holy-bible-warning.jpg

[MGR1]

http://fireintheocean.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/holy-bible-warning.jpg

This, I like! :har:

Mike.

[NeonSamurai]

Just as an FYI I have subsiquently gone through this thread and trimmed out the excessively sexist or sexual comments. I did that instead of giving out infractions this time.

[AVGWarhawk]

http://fireintheocean.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/holy-bible-warning.jpg


Duci, that is about the most ridiculas sticker I have seen. :hmmm: Perhaps it should be on Harry Potter books as well. :DL

[Sailor Steve]

The founding fathers didn't have much trouble with religion,
No they didn't, except for the part where they didn't want any religion running the country. James Madison, the "Father of the Constitution", didn't want Congress to have chaplains unless they paid them out of their own pockets, and he also didn't want any churches to get special priveledges or tax breaks. Jefferson was an absolute enemy of organized religion.

why should we, it is the bases and the foundation of this country,
Not really. Most of the original colonies were founded as business propositions.

if you have a godless country you have a lawless country,
How do you figure that? Most of our laws have nothing to do with religion at all, and it seems to be ingrained in man to be a social animal and to try to work together. Sure, religion can have a civilizing influence, but that doesn't mean that we are the way we are because of God; that is the reason implied by those who believe, but that doesn't make it so.

just like what is going on now and it is sickening, don't be fooled these people in DC don't care about you or me, all they care about is their power and how much they can take away from you.
That is true, but it applies just as much to the ones who believe as to the ones who don't. You see the non-believers as perverting our rights and using us for their own agendas. True, but others see the believers as subverting our rights for their own agendas, and no better than the non-believers. I see both, and the people who want to make this a "Christian" country (which, despite wishful thinking to the contrary it never was) as just as dangerous as the ones you're afraid of.

These are our God given rights, Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happyness, not us slaving away, to a out of control government, they are suppose to work for us, not us for them.
Or "Natural" Rights". However they came about, they are ours, and Right is just as responsible for the out of control government as the Left. You seem to be trying to blame one side only for our problems, and you're wrong on that.

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.
And that's strictly your belief, not proven fact.

[Sailor Steve]

Duci, that is about the most ridiculas sticker I have seen. :hmmm: Perhaps it should be on Harry Potter books as well. :DL
Do billions of people accept the Harry Potter books as fact, and use them as the basis of their belief? I know some do, but not that many, I hope.

Jedi, anyone?

[mookiemookie]

So what?

The "so what" of it is you took Armistead's argument, made it into some strawman about politicians not being able believe in God or some nonsense, and ran with it. I brought it back to his original point: it is a problem when people push their religious beliefs into government, or advocate such. Sarah Palin has done so on numerous occasions.

Do you deny that conflating politics and religion is a bad idea?

[AVGWarhawk]

Do billions of people accept the Harry Potter books as fact, and use them as the basis of their belief? I know some do, but not that many, I hope.

Jedi, anyone?

Star Trek anyone? :haha:

I just find that sticker comical Steve. Probably because people suffer these issues even without reading the Bible.

[Growler]

If the Left had a little more God In their lives, we won't be in the mess we are in now. No moral compass, over the cliff you go, say hi, to Satin for me.

Whatever happened to, "Let he among you without sin cast the first stone"? Like it or not, yubba, this country's been heading towards that cliff for a long time, regardless of who was in office. Absolute power has corrupted absolutely, in the very face of the predominant Christianity of this country.

I tend more to the left than the right, and happen to be an atheist. Guess this means I'm doomed, because I don't march to your conservative Christian drum? Looks like, at the worst, I'll be first against the wall when the Christian revolution comes, or if 'm lucky, perhaps just a lower-tiered "person of interest."

[yubba]

Whatever happened to, "Let he among you without sin cast the first stone"? Like it or not, yubba, this country's been heading towards that cliff for a long time, regardless of who was in office. Absolute power has corrupted absolutely, in the very face of the predominant Christianity of this country.

I tend more to the left than the right, and happen to be an atheist. Guess this means I'm doomed, because I don't march to your conservative Christian drum? Looks like, at the worst, I'll be first against the wall when the Christian revolution comes, or if 'm lucky, perhaps just a lower-tiered "person of interest." That's ok, see in this free soceity you can think what ever you want that's what makes America great, try that in China, Russia,and any other rat hole country, and you will more than likely be lined up on a wall, but more than likely you'll be on your knees with a bullet in the back of your head. I'll pray for your soul anyway, that's what good christian folk do. I myself and millions like me will be kicking en screamin and fightin before we let the left drag us over, be careful what you wish for, because you will never be able to pay for it.

[Growler]

That's ok, see in this free soceity you can think what ever you want that's what makes America great, try that in China, Russia,and any other rat hole country, and you will more than likely be lined up on a wall, but more than likely you be on your knees with a bullet in the back of your head. I'll pray for soul anyway that's what good christian folk do.

That's just it, yubba, we're NOT allowed to think what we want - the PC crowd, and the religious one - has seen to that. Know of any atheist presidents? Yeah, me neither. How about any (proven!) Muslim ones? We've had what, one, maybe two Roman Catholics in office... the upper echelon of leadership in this country is, predominantly (and almost exclusively) of the Christian bent. President Bush Sr. is alleged to have said that atheists couldn't even be considered citizens or patriots in this nation under God. Sounds to me like I'm being considered a second-class citizen. (Now, this is alleged, not proven, and the person alleging it is an atheist activist; that said, the Bush Presidential Library did release letters concerning this 1987 interview, and at the time, the Bush campaign did nothing to discredit the statement.) With knowledge of this potential bias, the fact that it is discussed some twenty years on suggests veracity in the sentiment, if not in the words itself.

If we're allowed to say and think and believe what we want, explain to me why the last brick & mortar college I went to had an exclusively titled "Black Student Union" and that's fine, but a similarly titled "White Student Union" would have the ACLU's little-girl pants in a wad; further, if we're allowed to believe what we want, give me one - just one - good secular reason to oppose the rights of homosexuals to marry, or for abortion to be outlawed.

One good, non-religious, non-judgmental, secular reason for those two things.

[yubba]

That's just it, yubba, we're NOT allowed to think what we want - the PC crowd, and the religious one - has seen to that. Know of any atheist presidents? Yeah, me neither. How about any (proven!) Muslim ones? We've had what, one, maybe two Roman Catholics in office... the upper echelon of leadership in this country is, predominantly (and almost exclusively) of the Christian bent. President Bush Sr. is alleged to have said that atheists couldn't even be considered citizens or patriots in this nation under God. Sounds to me like I'm being considered a second-class citizen. (Now, this is alleged, not proven, and the person alleging it is an atheist activist; that said, the Bush Presidential Library did release letters concerning this 1987 interview, and at the time, the Bush campaign did nothing to discredit the statement.) With knowledge of this potential bias, the fact that it is discussed some twenty years on suggests veracity in the sentiment, if not in the words itself.

If we're allowed to say and think and believe what we want, explain to me why the last brick & mortar college I went to had an exclusively titled "Black Student Union" and that's fine, but a similarly titled "White Student Union" would have the ACLU's little-girl pants in a wad; further, if we're allowed to believe what we want, give me one - just one - good secular reason to oppose the rights of homosexuals to marry, or for abortion to be outlawed.

One good, non-religious, non-judgmental, secular reason for those two things. See you just did think about it, now it's up too you, me and anybody else who wants too be free in this nation too do something about it. All it takes is the first step. Or maybe you would like Shiara Law.

[Ducimus]

Whatever happened to, "Let he among you without sin cast the first stone"? Like it or not, yubba, this country's been heading towards that cliff for a long time, regardless of who was in office. Absolute power has corrupted absolutely, in the very face of the predominant Christianity of this country.

I tend more to the left than the right, and happen to be an atheist. Guess this means I'm doomed, because I don't march to your conservative Christian drum? Looks like, at the worst, I'll be first against the wall when the Christian revolution comes, or if 'm lucky, perhaps just a lower-tiered "person of interest."


That's ok, see in this free soceity you can think what ever you want that's what makes America great, try that in China, Russia,and any other rat hole country, and you will more than likely be lined up on a wall, but more than likely you'll be on your knees with a bullet in the back of your head. I'll pray for your soul anyway, that's what good christian folk do. I myself and millions like me will be kicking en screamin and fightin before we let the left drag us over, be careful what you wish for, because you will never be able to pay for it.

Hey look everybody! We have our own home grown right wing christian extremist insinuating militant threats. How very christian!

See folks, this is why i detest church. In specific, hardliner christian's because they do not practice what they preach. They talk about how your supposed to show tolerance, understanding, and compassion, and yet they have none themselves. They are the biggest hypocrite's in America, worthy only of scorn and contempt.

And people wonder why i hate religion so much. HA!

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.killmydaynow.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Random-Funny-Photos-Part-134_2.jpg

[yubba]

Hey look everybody! We have our own home grown right wing christian extremist insinuating militant threats. How very christian!

See folks, this is why i detest church. In specific, hardliner christian's because they do not practice what they preach. They talk about how your supposed to show tolerance, understanding, and compassion, and yet they have none themselves. They are the biggest hypocrite's in America, worthy only of scorn and contempt.

And people wonder why i hate religion so much. HA!
Who do you think the people were, that was in the American Revolution with Britian, they were christians they fought and died, so you can destroy the country they have created. I don't recall insinuating a militant threat but if that's what you think, then fine it's america, well at least I got too see what the Left, has to offer in Wisconsin, Godless Union thugs, these will be the faces of your new tax collectors and task masters so enjoy. You hate me and Sarah because we are right, so tell me what's so appealling of the Left, they promise you something that me and others are going to have to pay for. When we beat the British they could at least go back to England. Ha

[nikimcbee]

Hey look everybody! We have our own home grown right wing christian extremist insinuating militant threats. How very christian!

See folks, this is why i detest church. In specific, hardliner christian's because they do not practice what they preach. They talk about how your supposed to show tolerance, understanding, and compassion, and yet they have none themselves. They are the biggest hypocrite's in America, worthy only of scorn and contempt.

And people wonder why i hate religion so much. HA!

You're gunna have a blast in provo then.:haha::03::salute:

[Ducimus]

Yubba's idea of the perfect America, is a christian version of Iran. Only instead of the Islamic Republic of Iran, it would be called the Christian Republic of America, and we'd all wear the yoke of religious oppression in his theocratic dream world :har:

You're gunna have a blast in provo then.:haha::03::salute:

Or Orem, or American fork, where ever. The thing is, i know what im getting into before I move. It's their area, they were they're first, and i chose to move there anyway. So I really don't have any excuse to complain when i can't buy beer on a sunday. Mormon's aren't remotely as bad as mainstream Evangelical Christians. The beleifs are weird, but they show respect towards others and aren't all that hipocritical (edit: Although they are judgemental). I can live with that.

[yubba]

Ok say, the Left wins, you can already see the oppression going on right now, gas over 4 dollars, food prices sky rocketting, 44 million people on food stamps , millions out of work, brought to you by the liberal left and they want to spend more money, that we don't have, and grow more government, and all they can think of, is tax the rich, and when the rich are gone, they will turn on each other, now that's funny. :woot:and where do guys think up this stuff, and what is wrong beleiving in the Consitution and a little bit of god, won't hurt some of you guys to beleive in something . If you don't stand for something you fall for everything like we can spend our way out of this or we have to pass this to see what's in this bill, now that's the funniest thing I've ever heard

[mookiemookie]

Ok say, the Left wins you, can already see the oppression going on right now, gas over 4 dollars, food prices sky rocketting, 44 million people on food stamps , millions out of work, brought to you by the liberal left

What a short memory you have.

[Ducimus]

I don't converse with fence posts. So here's a picture instead.
http://media.lunch.com/d/d7/488777.jpg

[mookiemookie]

I don't converse with fence posts. So here's a picture instead.
http://media.lunch.com/d/d7/488777.jpg

Haha, that's true. You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into.

[Armistead]

Who do you think the people were, that was in the American Revolution with Britian, they were christians they fought and died, so you can destroy the country they have created. I don't recall insinuating a militant threat but if that's what you think, then fine it's america, well at least I got too see what the Left, has to offer in Wisconsin, Godless Union thugs, these will be the faces of your new tax collectors and task masters so enjoy. You hate me and Sarah because we are right, so tell me what's so appealling of the Left, they promise you something that me and others are going to have to pay for. When we beat the British they could at least go back to England. Ha

Amazes me how you can call those in Wisconsin "Godless Union thugs".
How do you know? This is the problem with the fundy right, they assume everyoneis Godless except those that accept their views. Not to mention Christ said not to judge others as only he can see the heart.

I'm not for public unions either, but I would never judge people I don't know....Why the fundy right scares me, they think they can define God for everyone.

[yubba]

Well the union thugs certainly weren't good christians and I never claimed to be a good christian, but I know good from bad, Left {bad} right {good}:O: Must be hell grasping for staws on the free fall of defeat. Like Sarah said we won the fight in Wisconsin we will win else where.:salute: God bless America, God bless Sarah and the Tea Party. To better my self as a christian I'll even pray for you guys.:sunny: Oh Lord, protect these souls here at Subsim . Amen

[Growler]

And the good reasons are... ?

[UnderseaLcpl]

Interesting thread. Somehow, I get the impression that there is tension over a lot more than just Palins leadership ability or power here.

However, the point of this post is not to invite contention, but consensus through consideration. Apparently, the issue here has morphed into one of religious freedom and what kind of morality, if any, that the government, and/or society, should be allowed to impose or imply.

I count myself amongst those who can sympathize with Palin's "conservative values" stance, but I have to question my fellow social conservatives. If our stance is the right one, then what need do we have to impose it? We see our views and lifestyle as being threatened, by the left, often with good reason, but does anyone remember how we got to the point where they needed to attack our views in the first place? Does anyone remember what their preferred agency for effecting that attack has been?

In case any of us do, I would suggest that it may be unwise to try to use the same agency to impose our values upon anyone else, and to speak against any conservative candidates who would. Obviously, it hasn't worked well for us thus far, assuming that the laments of the loss of American morality have any substance or relevance.

Don't we have the moral fabric and the right ideas to stand upon our own merit? If not for government intervention in our social structure, would we not be winning anyway? We do not need the government to do for us what is right or prove what we do is right, and we've never been happy when it was used against us. As conservatives, we need nothing more than fundamental constitutional rights to succeed, no? So why aren't we fighting for that position?

You can try to blame it on the liberals for their interference, but all you really have to blame is yourselves for decades of trying to use government force to fight your opposites.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now, for you social liberal-types who want to bash social conservatives for their "harmful" values, I have a lesson from Jesus himself - Pull the plank out of your own eye first. What do you think you are doing when you advocate economic measures on the basis of your enlightenment and social consciousness? Have your efforts fixed anything? They obviously haven't, so you're in no position to judge conservatives with personal religious moral stances that they mostly preach to others, seeing as how you make a moral stance of redistributing wealth to suit your moral stance by force.

If some conservative came in here, or into the halls of congress, claiming that 35% of all mandated education should be religious, you guys would rip him to shreds. Heck, I'd join you. It's a violation of personal freedom, the highest ideal to which classical liberalism aspired. But then you don't bat an eye when taking 35% of a middle-class family's wealth. Not because it was what you wanted, but because you let your government effect your choices for you. And now you blame the conservatives for their role in giving power to an agency that you sought to use against them but which they ended up using against you.

[yubba]

It first started about her chest, and somehow I got Reborn Al a loo ya amen brother the power of the Lord will heal you.:haha: Almost forgot when greed fills mans heart, there's no room for the Lord that's what makes him godless for he only worships money and property- {Yubba 1881}

[Ducimus]

Religion and politics should never, EVER be mixed.

The instant... the VERY INSTANT someone shows a hint of speaking from the political podium with a bible in their back pocket...... i stop listening. I stop listening because in positions of leadership, I look for and expect: practicality, logic and reason. Moral's alone will not make a successful leader. A platform that espouses morals first, or "vote for morals" is a platform that works on "I believe", or "I think", and not for how things truly are.

It begs the question what do they "know"? Are they willing to find it out? Can they see past their own beleifs? Can they make compromises? Can they negotiate? Do the have the ability to see the world for what it is, instead of what they think things should be?

The point here is, despite what were lead to believe when we are raised as kids - the world does not work in black and white, good or bad, right or wrong, left or right. The world works in shades of gray. For people who've lived their whole life in backwoods USA, having never gone overseas and experienced things first hand, its probably a hard concept to grasp. In my opinion any aspiring leader who talks politics with their religious and moral blinders on their head, is a recipe for failure because they will most likely be unable or unwilling to see the various situations they will encounter for what they really are - not what they think they are.

[Platapus]

Religion and politics should never, EVER be mixed.

The instant... the VERY INSTANT someone shows a hint of speaking from the political podium with a bible in their back pocket...... i stop listening. I stop listening because in positions of leadership, I look for and expect: practicality, logic and reason. Moral's alone will not make a successful leader. A platform that espouses morals first, or "vote for morals" is a platform that works on "I believe", or "I think"..

Yeah, but what do they "know"? Are they willing to find it out? Can they make compromises? Can they negotiate? Do the have the ability to see the world for what it is, instead of what they think things should be?

The point here is, despite what were lead to believe when we are raised as kids - the world does not work in black and white, good or bad, right or wrong, left or right. The world works in shades of gray. For people who've lived their whole life in backwoods USA, having never gone overseas and experienced things first hand, its probably a hard concept to grasp. In my opinion anyone who talks politics with their religious and moral blinders on their head, is a recipe for failure because they will most likely be unable or unwilling to see the various situations they will encounter for what they really are - not what they think they are.

Wisdom in this one is :yep:

It does stynk that in the United States politicians have to at least pretend to be religious to have any chance of being elected. :nope:

Perpetuating the myth.

[Armistead]

One bible, 100's of denominations and thousands of different doctrines, but each think only they have it right...should be enough for any logical person.

If you really want to see people fight and belittle each other, join one of the christian forums.

[yubba]

:hmmm: you startin too figure it out.

[Tribesman]

you startin too figure it out.

This is rather illustrative.
In a short time Yubba has gone from......
Aliens , Obama the Muslim, end of the world, secret intergalactic conspiracy, hidden planet thats going to eat the earth, Marine corps, America, reptilians run the governments with freemasons the truth is on youtube :woot:
to.....
Jesus Palin tea party Sarah jesus palin godless heathen burn in hell wearing Satin bible constitution revolution tea party America taxes union lefty lefty bad good god taxes palin my legs wet.:woot:

You can see that the sanity he had while he was drunk for 20 years was really far less insane than the new sanity now he has become "sober".

[MH]

This is rather illustrative.
In a short time Yubba has gone from......
Aliens , Obama the Muslim, end of the world, secret intergalactic conspiracy, hidden planet thats going to eat the earth, Marine corps, America, reptilians run the governments with freemasons the truth is on youtube :woot:
to.....
Jesus Palin tea party Sarah jesus palin godless heathen burn in hell wearing Satin bible constitution revolution tea party America taxes union lefty lefty bad good god taxes palin my legs wet.:woot:

You can see that the sanity he had while he was drunk for 20 years was really far less insane than the new sanity now he has become "sober".

Looks like average politically engaged Muslim from ME-just little changes needed.
Wish the statistics was better tho.:DL

[yubba]

what can I say, I get around.:woot:But let's get it right, first it was Yellowstone Volcano, second was Norway Spiral. So Obama is a closest muslim, as long as he doesn't want to cut my head off, I'm alright with it, but he is worst {president ever}. And what were you sniffin I sure did not knowingly talked about a Secret intergalactic conspiracy or Aleins . If you want to talk about some body get your facts right, which I know it is hard too do in this world considering what is going on. As far as I'm conserned Right {Good}, Left{BAD} Must be hell grasping for staws on the free fall of defeat.

[Tribesman]

And what were you sniffin I sure did not knowingly talked about a Secret intergalactic conspiracy or Aleins . If you want to talk about some body get your facts right, which I know is hard too do in this world considering what is going on.
So when you posted links to loonys to back up your ideas about the end of the world and hidden planets you didn't know the links you provided for your claims were to complete loonys.

As far as I'm conserned Right {Good}, Left{BAD}
Four legs {good} two legs {baaaaaaaaaaa}
Political understanding of an ovine nature


Must be hell grasping for staws on the free fall of defeat.
:har::har::har::har::har::har::har::har:

[AVGWarhawk]

http://th76.photobucket.com/albums/j17/spider-dragon/Motivational%20Quotes/FinishHim.jpg


The discussion is getting a bit silly here. :hmmm: I'm betting there are more productive threads. :DL

[yubba]

:O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::har::har::har ::har::har::har:My favorite Amendents 1 and 2, read it, learn it , live it. God Bless America. You might want check what the S@P, that's the Standards an Poor index has to say about the economy.

[AVGWarhawk]

http://www.clearasmud.eu/mudlogoofficial.gif

[mookiemookie]

You might want check what the S@P, that's the Standards an Poor index has to say about the economy.

S&P? The same people that rated all those subprime mortgage securities as "Triple A" and helped blow up the economy? Yeah, I'll get right on that. They seem to have a wonderful track record.

[vienna]

One bible, 100's of denominations and thousands of different doctrines, but each think only they have it right...should be enough for any logical person.

If you really want to see people fight and belittle each other, join one of the christian forums.


Mark Twain:

Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion--several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven....The higher animals have no religion. And we are told that they are going to be left out in the Hereafter. I wonder why? It seems questionable taste.
- "The Lowest Animal"


In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination, from authorities who have not themselves examined the questions at issue but have taken them at second-hand from other non-examiners, whose opinions about them were not worth a brass farthing.
- Autobiography of Mark Twain


And the ultimate word on the separation of church and state:

Luke 20:20-26 (King James Version)

20 And they watched him, and sent forth spies, which should feign themselves just men, that they might take hold of his words, that so they might deliver him unto the power and authority of the governor.
21 And they asked him, saying, Master, we know that thou sayest and teachest rightly, neither acceptest thou the person of any, but teachest the way of God truly:
22 Is it lawful for us to give tribute unto Caesar, or no?
23 But he perceived their craftiness, and said unto them, Why tempt ye me?
24 Shew me a penny. Whose image and superscription hath it? They answered and said, Caesar's.
25 And he said unto them, Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be Caesar's, and unto God the things which be God's.
26 And they could not take hold of his words before the people: and they marvelled at his answer, and held their peace.


BTW, I am not religious in any way in spite of of a strict, old-school Catholic school upbringing. i do, however, respect the beliefs of others. The once was an interview with Keith Richards where one of the other people in the room was Booby Keys, sax player and friend of Keith. Bobby at the time was a "born-again" Christian and kept interjecting "praise the Lord's" and other such slogans. Keith finally snapped at him and told him to knock it off. Bobby was a bit hurt and asked Keith "Don't you love the Lord?" Keith responded immediately with "I love the Lord, but I hate preachers." I find Keith's response to Bobby to be one to which I can subscribe. It is quite ridiculous to inject one screwed up, contentious set of philosophies (religions) into another screwed up, contentious set of philosophies (politics). It is rather akin to infecting an infection.

[Sailor Steve]

:O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::O::har::har::har ::har::har::har:My favorite Amendents 1 and 2, read it, learn it , live it. God Bless America. You might want check what the S@P, that's the Standards an Poor index has to say about the economy.
You might want to read the Constitution yourself, rather than assume it means what you think it means. The read the words of the people who wrote it. You'll be surprised.

[Bakkels]

Right {Good}, Left{BAD}

THIS is the problem with a lot of discussions here about American economy imo.
Now I'm not American, and in no way do I mean to come across as arrogant. (Hell were not doing any better here) But all the discussions about American politics seem to end up with Republicans bashing Democrats or vice versa. EVERYTHING the other side does or says is wrong. And everything that's wrong is their fault.
Discussions start out being on topic but almost always end up in right vs left. Just an observation.

[yubba]

It's pretty straight forward, It says I can say anything, within reason, worship what I want, again within reason, and I can own a gun, way cool. There is some other cool stuff in there, to protect me from a tyranical government. When I join the United States Marine Corps I took an oath to protect the Consitution, from ALL ENIMES foreign and DOMESTIC, you can call me what you want but you'll never, ever be able to call me a TRAITOR. By the sounds of it Obama was trying to cook the books with the S and P explain that if you can. Enjoy your 4+ $ gasoline and what ever goes along with it. Here's the Lefts battle cry Tax the Rich:har: GAME OVER..........

[Fish In The Water]

Discussions start out being on topic but almost always end up in right vs left. Just an observation.

And then the rhetoric begins and very little (of substance) is actually accomplished...

The alternative of course is to abandon this never-ending cycle and become an independent/moderate and embrace the best ideas from either side. Sadly this requires people to leave the ideology/dogma at the door, which seems to be nigh impossible for many.

[Platapus]

THIS is the problem with a lot of discussions here about American economy imo.
Now I'm not American, and in no way do I mean to come across as arrogant. (Hell were not doing any better here) But all the discussions about American politics seem to end up with Republicans bashing Democrats or vice versa. EVERYTHING the other side does or says is wrong. And everything that's wrong is their fault.
Discussions start out being on topic but almost always end up in right vs left. Just an observation.

A very accurate observation. In my opinion, as soon as anyone uses the term "left" "right" "liberal" "conservative" as the basis of their argument, they lose credibility.

Liberals (how ever you want to define that) are not all the same thinking people nor are Conservatives (how ever you want to define that) all the same thinking people.

But people, and many here on this forum like to reference THE liberals and THE conservatives as if they were some conglomerate group. Frankly, I have never met a person who is 100% liberal or 100% conservative on all matters.

One of these days, we might just start thinking of things as American Problems and come up with an American Solution. But I don't see that happening in my lifetime. :nope:

[yubba]

The problem I got with our government, is they didn't ask me if I wanted to live in a Socalist Rat Hole............or get my permission.:woot:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05dn8b_50so

[Ducimus]

THIS is the problem with a lot of discussions here about American economy imo.
Now I'm not American, and in no way do I mean to come across as arrogant. (Hell were not doing any better here) But all the discussions about American politics seem to end up with Republicans bashing Democrats or vice versa. EVERYTHING the other side does or says is wrong. And everything that's wrong is their fault.
Discussions start out being on topic but almost always end up in right vs left. Just an observation.


Like i posted earlier. The world works in a shade of grey. A lot of people can't seem to grasp that. I think its how we're raised in the US. We're brought up to believe in a very strict and rigid boolean set of cultural values. Black and white, good or bad, wrong or right, them vs us. etc, etc. Unfortunately, thats just now how the world works.

[CaptainHaplo]

Ultimately, politicians make a living playing politics.

Common sense eludes them all.... Want proof?

39 Billion in cuts turned out to be less than 400 Million, due to accounting gimmicks.

Common sense says that if you make X, and you spend Y, then X must be equal to or greater than Y if you want to stay out of (or keep from increasing) debt. Simple math.

The average american kinda gets it - sometimes. Politicians - of either stripe - don't.

[Bakkels]

Like i posted earlier. The world works in a shade of grey. A lot of people can't seem to grasp that. I think its how we're raised in the US. We're brought up to believe in a very strict and rigid boolean set of cultural values. Black and white, good or bad, wrong or right, them vs us. etc, etc. Unfortunately, thats just now how the world works.

Funny you bring up the 'shade of grey' thing. I saw you posting about that earlier, and I couldn't agree more. Actually, I was thinking about that while typing my post :up:

[yubba]

Well my freind From the Neatherlands, I'm watching my own government destroy my country, so when our economy tanks Europe goes with us how's that for shades of grey, I did get a chance to see the riots in London, what's about to come is going to make that look like a stroll in the park. We can stop this by making right choices and vote wizely

[mookiemookie]

http://i.imgur.com/2dIAA.jpg

[Tribesman]

My favorite Amendents 1 and 2, read it, learn it , live it.
Someones already dealt with that very well.

You might want check what the S@P
Someone shot that to pieces instantly.

It says I can say anything, within reason, worship what I want, again within reason, and I can own a gun, way cool. There is some other cool stuff in there, to protect me from a tyranical government.
So its the same as most other western countries....wow.

you can call me what you want but you'll never, ever be able to call me a TRAITOR.
Thats true, when it appears you havn't got a clue what it is you stand for then you can never be accused of turning against that which you stand for as you don't know what it is.

By the sounds of it Obama was trying to cook the books with the S and P explain that if you can.
You don't read do you.:doh:

Enjoy your 4+ $ gasoline and what ever goes along with it.
Countries with cheap gasoline?????? so that would be in general a small selection of the totalitarian regimes scattered around the world together with a couple of wannabe dictatorships.
Sorry, you were trying to make a point there about freemarket and the elected politicians were you????:rotfl2:

Here's the Lefts battle cry Tax the Rich
That is the same as saying the rights battle cry is screw everyone apart from the top 1%:doh:

The problem I got with our government, is they didn't ask me if I wanted to live in a Socalist Rat Hole............or get my permission
The problem you have is that you havn't got a clue about the state of your country or the world and have no idea what a socialist rat hole really is.
It could be said that your problem is that after crawling out of the bottle you are so disorientated that reality has left you very dazed and confused.

I did get a chance to see the riots in London
Indeed, riots in London how novel how lucky you were to have seen them.
After all its not like its been something that happens on a very regular basis stretching back for hundreds of years, hey these latest batch of riots have been very very tame.
But lets remind us of your "vision" of that riot. It was evil muslim immigrants changing the nature of europe wasn't it, sharia law sweeping Britain:yep: It was a little bit sad when it turned out you was really talking about the big student protests where a few hundred spoilt brats from the home counties went off from the main group, and started smashing things.
what's about to come is going to make that look like a stroll in the park.
OMG its apocalypso, the end of the world with a carribean beat

[Armistead]

Well my freind From the Neatherlands, I'm watching my own government destroy my country, so when our economy tanks Europe goes with us how's that for shades of grey, I did get a chance to see the riots in London, what's about to come is going to make that look like a stroll in the park. We can stop this by making right choices and vote wizely

People will riot when they always do, when only a few percent have all the wealth. Thanks to mostly the GOP, that's what we have in america, a corporate run state. Sure, the Dems answer to this is to create social programs to care for the poor. Any person can see when 1% of people hold over 40% of all wealth and 10% hold 80% of all wealth the mass of people will be screwed.

I believe in conservative principles, but the GOP sells elitism. About everything they do is tied to making corporations richer. It obvious hasn't worked out, they're richer, the rest are getting poorer. Every leading econimist says our future will be a two class state.

What doe's Paul Ryans budget plan really do...cuts less than a billion dollars, gives corporations mass tax cuts and pays that by cutting social programs. Sure, cut some programs, but don't give corps another tax break. In reality with loopholes and shelters they pay lilttle tax.

Sadly many fall for what politicians spew out of their mouths, instead of looking at what they're actually doing in back rooms. No doubt the GOP wants God back, they will need a force to scare people into a state of control so they can continue. This has been done all through history, an out of control greedy government system using religion to control the masses with fear.