Eurozone still dodgy

[STEED]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8452495/Eurozone-is-facing-fresh-crisis-amid-fears-Greece-cannot-repay-debt.html

If Spain went under would that be enough to see the end of the EU?

As for the news item this dose not surprise me at all. I hear the UK could be hit by Moody's downgrade rating if the country dose not pick up.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8452495/Eurozone-is-facing-fresh-crisis-amid-fears-Greece-cannot-repay-debt.html

In the mean time 19 UK banks could be hit.

http://www.gfsnews.com/article/1560/1/Moody_s_may_downgrade_19_UK_banks

[Gerald]

Greece has announced plans to sell 50bn euros of state assets in a bid to get its finances back on track. which I read on the BBC, but there have been people retire at 55 years similar to spain in some cases.

[STEED]

It's now 66 here and set to rise to 70, at this rate we will work on until you drop dead at work, hope not.

[Gerald]

http://i.imgur.com/oF8Ci.jpg

Contract and work Until You are 70 years old.

[STEED]

I don't care what my government tells me, the Eurozone is far from being in the Black and Banks can not be trusted at all.

[Happy Times]

Its all going to end, EU, Euro, the federalist ideology of forcing a undemocratic system on the people, paying for the others bills, getting harassed by the eurocrats of EUSSR, it is going to burn.:rock:

[MothBalls]

Its all going to end, EU, Euro, the federalist ideology of forcing a undemocratic system on the people, paying for the others bills, getting harassed by the eurocrats of EUSSR, it is going to burn.:rock:Anyone else see the irony in this being posed by someone named "Happy Times"?

[Happy Times]

Anyone else see the irony in this being posed by someone named "Happy Times"?

Sorry for not being happy about Finland destroying its credit rating to save Greece, Portugal, Ireland and the rest.
And for this European Stability Mechanism pressed upon us that will bring with it the Federal State in Europe without any democracy:woot:

[TorpX]

Anyone else see the irony in this being posed by someone named "Happy Times"?
What I find ironic is that around the world, people are fighting, squabbling, and protesting. No one agrees on much, but all are very unhappy with their leaders. It seems we are witnessing an age of great upheval.

[kraznyi_oktjabr]

Sorry for not being happy about Finland destroying its credit rating to save Greece, Portugal, Ireland and the rest.
And for this European Stability Mechanism pressed upon us that will bring with it the Federal State in Europe without any democracy:woot:
Very much my opinion too. Eurozone was nice when everyone took care of their own responsibilities like taking care of their economy. I don't remember anyone told that there would be obligation to pay others debts as necessary.

Politicians in Greece saw it fit to offer everything for everyone by loaning money and they failed to think who would pay the bill. Same fits to Portugal, Ireland and who know next? Luckily (for them) there are idiots like Finnish politicians who are happily paying others debt to look good in EU. I would like to know who they think will be stupid enough to pay Finland's debt in 2030's when this card house called Finland fails?

[Skybird]

If Spain went under would that be enough to see the end of the EU?
The eU? No, unfortunately. the Euro? Also no, they intend to leave it there no matter how high the costs will become. The EU meanwhile plans to directly tax European citizens, the Polish EU minister has made according plans more precise, and wants that the eU at least gets one third of it'S current budgets from European private people'S pockets direectly, so that the EU gets its income even if states and nations refuse to pay their budget obligations or want to threaten to cut their budgets if the EU does not stop to act like a head with a bigger azz around it. And I tell you, Germany, althoigh having the ghreatest interest of all to stop this madness, will be one of the loudest voices to defend these EU taxes (Schaüble already did), becasue shortsighted as they are they just see that there is a saving for the national budget if parts of the German EU budget now needs to be payed not by the state, but the German workers directly.

Blow up the parliament, I say. V like Vendetta. We are getting betrayed and betrayed and betrayed.

As for the news item this dose not surprise me at all. I hear the UK could be hit by Moody's downgrade rating if the country dose not pick up.


Germany as well. Rating agencies have realised since several months now that Gemany has shouldered more oblgations with those Euro bailout mechanisms than it can endure.

Japan does not make it easier. Plus the economic debacle that Japan was in already before the Tsnunami hit Fukushima.

We will get presented the bills for our economic sins and shortsighted stupidities. And maybe we do not have any right to complain, but just get what we deserve by having let it gone too far, for too long. It is in the people'S hands to sent politicians, lobbies and governments to hell - eithe rby elections,l and if that cannot work anymore, then by revolutions and violent force. But people don't do that. So...

[Skybird]

And for this European Stability Mechanism
What stability mechanism...?

There is none worth the name. The old one got killed, the new labels is given unjustified.

They are talking all this crap. But that does not mean that the crap has any meaning. Our chancellor Merkel has been chief secretary for propaganda in the GDR's FdJ. She has learned the business of propagandistic crap-talking from the very basics on, and since months we lauch in Germany aboiut the empty wordshells and hollow phrases she constantly fires to the press and the parliament. She is a crap-talker in the finest meaning of the word.

We have a nice nickname for her. We call her "Honnecker's late revenge to the BRD". :D And there is more truth in it than one can find pleasant. It is an irony of history that especially the socalled, now destroyed, conservatives have been stripped of the meaning of the word "conservative" by Merkel, and now are one of the strongest driving powers in the EU for an indeed socialist federal EU-state where the rich nations have to pay, pay, pay, pay until they have completely ruined themselves, too.

[Feuer Frei!]

@ Skybird:

who do you think would be CURRENTLY, as things stand right now in the best position to lead Germany?
And i don't mean from a popularity contest only factor.
Policies, strength of character, good speaker, knowledgable,
and amongst other things actually a willingness to want to help Germany out of the doldrums.

[Happy Times]

What stability mechanism...?



Sorry, i ment the Ponzi scheme.:dead:

Crab talkin is going to its end because people are starting to see what they have actually done to us.
The big fall should have come in 2008, now everything is going to get so much worse.
Politicians and bankers are going to hang, maybe literally.

[Skybird]

@ Skybird:

who do you think would be CURRENTLY, as things stand right now in the best position to lead Germany?
And i don't mean from a popularity contest only factor.
Policies, strength of character, good speaker, knowledgable,
and amongst other things actually a willingness to want to help Germany out of the doldrums.
I have no name on mind. As far as I am concerned, you can sink the whole Reichstag and all party offices around it. There certainly is nobody qulifying for the descritpion of a "Staatsmann". And the whole poltical caste has degenerated into a pitiful bunch of nothingness that is only concverned with one question: how to use what tentacle to find a greasy way to cling to power.

It is a structural problem. These structures are not as that they can form and create great and good character in a politician to power. The systemn is tailored to reward the opportunist and the piowerhungry narcissist. Many little big egos, playing "manager".

[Skybird]

@ Skybird:

who do you think would be CURRENTLY, as things stand right now in the best position to lead Germany?
And i don't mean from a popularity contest only factor.
Policies, strength of character, good speaker, knowledgable,
and amongst other things actually a willingness to want to help Germany out of the doldrums.
I have no name on mind. As far as I am concerned, you can sink the whole Reichstag and all party offices around it. There certainly is nobody qulifying for the descritpion of a "Staatsmann". And the whole poltical caste has degenerated into a pitiful bunch of nothingness that is only concverned with one question: how to use what tentacle to find a greasy way to cling to power.

It is a structural problem. These structures are not as that they can form and create great and good character in a politician. The system is tailored to reward the opportunist and the powerhungry narcissist. Many little big egos, playing "manager". Phrase jugglers. Money-experimentators.

[Feuer Frei!]

That's a worry.
Nothing on the horizon.

[STEED]

The eU? No, unfortunately. the Euro? Also no, they intend to leave it there no matter how high the costs will become.

Well that's Danny for Spain, you go under your too big, stuff you.



Germany as well. Rating agencies have realised since several months now that Gemany has shouldered more oblgations with those Euro bailout mechanisms than it can endure.

Interesting you say that Sky, the media here is saying Germany is doing well and going from strength to strength. Just shows you can not trust what the media tells us.

[Gerald]

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=182464

[Jimbuna]

It's now 66 here and set to rise to 70, at this rate we will work on until you drop dead at work, hope not.

Well I'm pleased to say I'm a rare exception....retired with full pension at 52 and working part-time bt full-time on occasion as and when required.

[Gerald]

http://i.imgur.com/lNRPc.jpg

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10150007

[Skybird]

Interesting you say that Sky, the media here is saying Germany is doing well and going from strength to strength. Just shows you can not trust what the media tells us.
It'S true that at the moment Germany's exports are so strong that we cannot walk for muscles. But it is a mistake to look just at exports. You have to balance that by a multitude of factors, namely age-shift, future pensions to be payed, deficit explosion due to the Euro, the extreme strategic dependency of Germany from foreign markets due to its export dependency, and then again the Euro crunch, the Euro, the Euro, the Euro.

Soliodarity is all nice and well, but to me solidarity means not more than to lend a hand so that somebody having fallen into a pit or being sdtruck by hjard times wiothiout his mistake has the needed opportunity to recoiver and come to his own strength again. But in the EU, soldiarity is one of the many terms they now cokmpletely abuse. Today it means that you also compensate for those who cause their own misery actively and are responsible for that, you reward those who run mismanagement and incompetence and refuse to start new and oinstead claim more "solidarity" so that they get payed out and can afford to simply not chnage and keep their erratic system run ov at the cvost of others. This is no solidarity, but parasytic egoism, and I cry for every German tax cent being thrown after this.

Just this morning I read a brief reportt in a German paper that says that the EU ministers secretly have just found out that all the money that has been sunk in Greece so far over the past 12 months has done NOTHING to have the Greek state acchieved any real changes for the better, this is becasue in the face of massive protests on the street the state has shied away from formerly promised and needed drastic reforms. While in Germany pesnion age is being increased from 65 to 67, in several mediterranean countries they protest against their pensions ages of 57, 58 even being considered for being pushed upwards. Instead, they demand more moneys from the German employess - wqho that way are expected to directly work for the interest of foreign people and accept even harder working conditions on their own behalf. Latest decisions in brussel that also were supported by the Germans have effectively installed this mechanism of constantly transfering money from some paying countries to these receivers as a truly unlimited mechanism over time, without time limit. And that is what makes the currency union a transfer union indeed.

This dfoes not only weaken the German and other paying national economies, but it weakens the receiving economies as well. It weakens everybody by preventing a necessary healing process that could lead to healthier conditions and more strength.

In other words this Euro union was a stillbirth from beginning on, and never will be anything else but a big, huge pile of stinking bull from A to Z.

[Happy Times]

‘True Finns’ Threaten EU Bailout Plans
In theory, a new Finnish government that is opposed to further bailouts of euro-zone countries could prevent new rescue loans, since they have to be agreed unanimously by all euro members.

“It is outrageous that countries which have governed their economy badly are now putting their problems and debt on to Finnish taxpayers, that is not our duty to take on,” Mr. Soini says.

Anger at the bailouts has been a factor driving a rise in support for the right-of-center National Front in France’s recent local elections, and contributed to the weak performance of Germany’s governing parties in recent state elections.

So far, Finland has committed to guarantee almost €8 billion related to the European Financial Stability Facility (EFSF), and further guarantees and investments of €12.58 billion related to the European Stability Mechanism (ESM), which is planned to begin functioning in 2013. Finland has also given a €1.48 billion loan to Greece, a €160 million loan to Iceland and promised a €324 million loan to Latvia.

http://blogs.wsj.com/source/2011/04/14/true-finns-threaten-eu-bailout-plans/

Hope they win, have to vote tommorow.

So the Finns have allready a comitment of 25 billion Euros to this crisis and when Spain and Italy go what then?

I think Finlands budget is something like 50-60 billion but guess sky is the limit in holding on to an unhealthy currency.:doh:

[MH]

I know nothing about economics but it seems as EU is run by a sort of comunist system.
Kind of wealth distribution.

[Gerald]

The EU is the top down and bureaucratic, but not communist, if you mean it in explicit terms, but there are several reasons why there are problems within the Union, and one is of course the General recession, and the judgments of individual countries' economic boast, since the enlargement of The EU has gone too fast, there are many factors these may be relatively low in the context of what is purely a problem...

[MH]

The EU is the top down and bureaucratic, but not communist, if you mean it in explicit terms, but there are several reasons why there are problems within the Union, and one is of course the General recession, and the judgments of individual countries' economic boast, since the enlargement of The EU has gone too fast, there are many factors these may be relatively low in the context of what is purely a problem...

If so it seems EU must step backward few steps before moving on.
To bring about sort of economical unity.

[Gerald]

If so it seems EU must step backward few steps before moving on.
To bring about sort of economical unity. True, this "must" be done.

[Skybird]

I know nothing about economics but it seems as EU is run by a sort of comunist system.
Kind of wealth distribution.
Some years ago in this forum, I have repeatedly objected claims that Europe is somewhat a "socialist" place, and there were quite some hot debates back then.

But over the years since then, I had to chnage my mind, also, the situation has dramatically changed over here, and maybe I need to be thankful for the economic crisis that started 2008 or so, becasue it revealed in kind of a crash course the real attitude of many political factions here that else would have allowed to continue their erosive work while hiding their socialist agenda for some longer time.

I still insist on the difference between "social" and "socialist", but I must admit that the EU is being turned more into a socialist dictatorship with monumental deficits in democratric legitimiation and representation, than anything else. They even openly talk about planned economies over here now. Beinmg solidaric with the victim of circumstances, is fine. Being aware of social needs and accepting a certain responsibility to adress them, is fine, too, I'm all for it. But now we have a monumental abuse of solidarity that is being turned into some states blackmailing all others "If you do not pay for us not wanting to change, then we pull you all down with us", and social responsibility is being turned into socialist party tyranny.

To hell with all of that.

[Platapus]

Anyone else see the irony in this being posed by someone named "Happy Times"?

Not really, people can't change their log on based on the post they are writing.