150 years ago today...

[Bilge_Rat]

april 12, 1861.

Confederate batteries open up on Fort Sumter in Charleston harbour marking the beginning of the U.S. Civil War.

This morning also marks the first official commemoration ceremonies:

http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2011/04/12/sumterlights.jpg?t=1302616654&s=3

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2011/04/12/135343137/solemn-start-to-civil-war-ceremonies

[Fish In The Water]

april 12, 1861.

Confederate batteries open up on Fort Sumter in Charleston harbour marking the beginning of the U.S. Civil War.

Wow...

Not to detract from such a monumental event, but I can't help but think just how far military hardware has come in the last 150 years. Imagine how much higher the death toll would have been with modern weapons. As tragic and painful as the war was, (if it had to happen), best it happened then rather than now.

[Chad]

Wow, 150 years.

I've gained a lot of respect for the Civil War as of lately, I recently found a small battlefield not a 10 minute drive from my house that I have driven past almost every day and didn't even know it.

Since I'm close to Independence (where Louis and Clark took off from) I figured the large marble plaques were to commemorate their adventure. So one nice sunny day I was driving home from a dentist's appointment, I decided that after 22 years, I wanted to read these plaques and stop my curiosity.

Imagine my surprise when I found at that the two plaques were giving a history and battle map of the area! I'd like to walk through the field and just see what it was like on the field.

[Growler]

Wow...

Not to detract from such a monumental event, but I can't help but think just how far military hardware has come in the last 150 years. Imagine how much higher the death toll would have been with modern weapons. As tragic and painful as the war was, (if it had to happen), best it happened then rather than now.

By the standards of ANY time, casualties were horrific: more Americans died in the Civil War (or War of Northern Aggression) than in all other American wars combined. Almost as many Americans died in three days in July, 1863 at Gettysburg as did in the (officially) twenty years of the Vietnam War (~53,000 at Gettysburg, ~59,000 in Vietnam).

The American Civil War is considered by many to be the beginning of what we today call "modern" warfare - the weapons improved ahead of the tactics, which is why you had massed formations crossing open ground to meet massed formations behind defensive breastworks, and the ensuing bloodbath is inevitable. Canister fire from cannon, more accurate riflery with a higher rate of fire and over longer ranges, all fired into massed crowds of men approaching shoulder-to-shoulder. The carnage must have been unimaginable.

The war saw the development of what would become the Gatling gun, the submarine, steam-powered steel ships with movable gun turrets, aerial reconnaissance... while men still marching shoulder to shoulder and ships still turned broadside to fire effectively. Technology advanced our ability to deal damage to each other very effectively indeed.

[Fish In The Water]

...all fired into massed crowds of men approaching shoulder-to-shoulder. The carnage must have been unimaginable.

The war saw the development of what would become the Gatling gun...

Indeed, but just imagine if ALL the rifles had a much higher rate of fire. A very chilling prospect...

[Bilge_Rat]

Indeed, but just imagine if ALL the rifles had a much higher rate of fire. A very chilling prospect...

yes, you get WW1.

There is a reason the armies fight in 1861 as if it was 1815 and by 1864 are all digging in as if it is 1914.

Up until the Napoleonic war, the main firearm was the smoothbore musket with a maximum effective range of 100 meters. In 1861, rifled firearms with an effective range of 500 meters were standard.

Soldiers very quickly found out that to survive, they had to adopt modern tactics, moving in small groups, using the terrain as protection and later in the war, digging in as soon as they stopped marching.

[Raptor1]

Indeed, but just imagine if ALL the rifles had a much higher rate of fire. A very chilling prospect...

The most direct example of such a thing is probably the Austro-Prussian War, in which the Austrian Army, using muzzle loading rifles and tactics designed to counter similarly equipped armies, suffered massive casualties at the hands of the needle gun-equipped Prussians.

By the time the Franco-Prussian War saw the first battles between opposing armies with breech-loading rifles, artillery and early machine guns, tactics have changed on both sides, though casualties were still proportionally much greater than previous wars.

[Growler]

yes, you get WW1.

There is a reason the armies fight in 1861 as if it was 1815 and by 1864 are all digging in as if it is 1914.

Up until the Napoleonic war, the main firearm was the smoothbore musket with a maximum effective range of 100 meters. In 1861, rifled firearms with an effective range of 500 meters were standard.

Soldiers very quickly found out that to survive, they had to adopt modern tactics, moving in small groups, using the terrain as protection and later in the war, digging in as soon as they stopped marching.

Indeed, no less a personage as Robert E. Lee knew this to be the case - he was digging trenches and fortifying the areas around Richmond, earning him the nickname "King of Spades" early in the Civil War, prior to his assuming overall command of the ANV. But digging trenches and preparing defenses was, in many circles, defeatist and cowardly, so the war would go on in the classic Napoleonic style, and pile up bodies on the fields of America in the process.

[nikimcbee]

Huzzah to the gallant Pelham's Flying Horse Artilley.

First MN:woot:

The Iron Brigade from Cheezheadlandia.

4th Texas
...and Stonewall Brigade.

[nikimcbee]

http://a1.l3-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/128/ed83d9488995452a84c39a4ed8db4af8/m.jpg



Whupin' yankees since 1861.
http://www.honorthyheritage.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/american23.png

Last Full Measure:
http://www.ng.mil/resources/photo_gallery/heritage/images/firstminnesota.jpg

http://www.farwest.it/FOTOxSITO/2010/05/24_IronBrigade_Dipinto_1.JPG.jpeg

http://www.thewildgeese.com/pages/images/jackson%20by%20troiani.jpg

[nikimcbee]

http://www.edwardsamuels.com/illustratedstory/chapter%206/Brady.jpg

[Takeda Shingen]

http://rst.gsfc.nasa.gov/Sect6/chamchrg.jpg

[nikimcbee]

http://www.historicalartprints.com/images/product_large/sons_of_erin_lg.jpg

[AVGWarhawk]

What I find astonishing about the Civil War was the medical field in it's infancy. The wound care and pain suffered is unimaginable. Really, taking a swing of whiskey and biting a spoon as the doc amputated an appendage must have been absolutely painful.

[Bilge_Rat]

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/k16000/k17106.jpg

http://www.history.navy.mil/photos/images/h84000/h84512k.jpg

[nikimcbee]

What I find astonishing about the Civil War was the medical field in it's infancy. The wound care and pain suffered is unimaginable. Really, taking a swing of whiskey and biting a spoon as the doc amputated an appendage must have been absolutely painful.

The tragic part was that the hospitals were not capable of handling the amount of casualties. For some of those wounds, even modern medicine could do no better. I was going to post of pictures of wounded soldiers, but they are too graphic.:dead:

[nikimcbee]

The tragic part was that the hospitals were not capable of handling the amount of casualties. For some of those wounds, even modern medicine could do no better. I was going to post of pictures of wounded soldiers, but they are too graphic.:dead:


...speaking of hospitals, funny/ touching re-enacting story. After one of our big battles, we had the public go out on the field and help "bring back" the wounded to the hospital for the hospital demostration. My son was back at camp playing and saw daddy come back from the battle on a stretcher.:dead:
They dumped me on the ground and I was declared dead. The surgeon put my kepi over my face. My son came up to me and poked me a few times, then he realized I was dead. He just sat their by my body and wouldn't leave me. There were people crying in the crowd and I was doing my best to stay in character:dead:. There was no acting involved at that point, the emotion was real. My son never cried once, but he sat there stoically next to me until it was all over.

After the demontration was finished, dad magically got up. He was pretty pissed at me though.:88)

[Betonov]

How were the hospitals marked then ?? Red Cross was founded in 1863 and soldiers had to have some markations to know were to bring the wounded

[Growler]

How were the hospitals marked then ?? Red Cross was founded in 1863 and soldiers had to have some markations to know were to bring the wounded

Follow the sound of the screams.

[Chad]

I've forgotten that you're pretty big into the reenactments Jason, that's a pretty chilling story about your son.

I haven't been to one in a couple of years, but I remember one I saw a few years back was pretty gruesome in terms of how real it felt, the crack of the muskets and the loud booms of the cannons.

I only wish I could visit Gettysburg sometime during one of their reenactments. That would be huge!

[Growler]

I've forgotten that you're pretty big into the reenactments Jason, that's a pretty chilling story about your son.

I haven't been to one in a couple of years, but I remember one I saw a few years back was pretty gruesome in terms of how real it felt, the crack of the muskets and the loud booms of the cannons.

I only wish I could visit Gettysburg sometime during one of their reenactments. That would be huge!

I've lived about an hour from Gettysburg for the last seven years, and STILL haven't managed to get there for any of the reenactments (usually due to work). This year, perhaps.

[MothBalls]

marking the beginning of the U.S. Civil War.

I think we should have a do over.

[Growler]

I think we should have a do over.

Given the current climate, I think if we were to try it again, everybody'd secede.

[Chad]

I've lived about an hour from Gettysburg for the last seven years, and STILL haven't managed to get there for any of the reenactments (usually due to work). This year, perhaps.

I did a little looking around, and look at the size of the reenactment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxrB9-7tHY

[nikimcbee]

I did a little looking around, and look at the size of the reenactment!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDxrB9-7tHY

Ha! that's the footage from Sid meier's Gettysburg.

[Chad]

The movie movie? Not an actual reenactment?

:oops:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Sounds more like a game, with the 'Sid Meier's.'

[Gargamel]

:woot:





Oh sorry... thought this was sailor steve's birthday thread.....


/troll

[Betonov]

Ha! that's the footage from Sid meier's Gettysburg.

The entire movie was an reenactment. Shot on site with actual reenactors

[PhantomLord]

Some of the guys were at Boone Hall last year... they´re still excited :D

I really hope that our whole unit is able to come over in 2 years...

[Platapus]

How were the hospitals marked then ?? Red Cross was founded in 1863 and soldiers had to have some markations to know were to bring the wounded

Evidently a green flag with a big "H" on it

http://www.visit-gettysburg.com/flags-of-the-civil-war.html

[Betonov]

Evidently a green flag with a big "H" on it

http://www.visit-gettysburg.com/image-files/civil-war-hospital-flag.jpg

I wonder, why green :hmmm: Because of gangreene, the rotting flesh of amputated limbs, the faces of soldier that were brought into the bloodbath....
Nice find Platapus, thanks :DL

Edit:
Each Army branch in a division was assigned a basic flag color:


sky blue for infantry
red for artillery
yellow for cavalry
green for the medical branch, such as hospitals



Looks like it was just a coincidence, the remaining basic color