How big is the U.S. Debt?

[Feuer Frei!]

May be slightly outdated but:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-w-8fXzwQE&feature=player_embedded


Instead of listening to the warnings of our founding fathers, now we are in debt hell....
#1 The Obama administration is now projecting that the federal budget deficit for this year will be an all-time record $1.645 trillion dollars (http://gonzalolira.blogspot.com/2011/02/we-owe-how-much-waiting-for-big.html).
#2 The budget deficit for this year alone will end up being well over 10 percent of GDP. That is an absolutely nightmarish level.
#3 Currently, the accumulated national debt of the U.S. government has reached a grand total of $14,123,589,307,190.53 (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np).
#4 If you divided the national debt up equally among all U.S. households, each one would owe a staggering $125,475.18 (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gov-t-has-borrowed-2966055-household-oba).
#5 The federal government has borrowed 29,660 more dollars per household (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/gov-t-has-borrowed-2966055-household-oba) since Barack Obama signed the economic stimulus law two years ago.
#6 During Barack Obama's first two years in office, the U.S. government added more to the U.S. national debt than the first 100 U.S. Congresses combined (http://www.cnsnews.com/news/article/111th-congress-added-more-debt-first-100).
#7 In the new budget that the Obama administration has proposed, the U.S. government would spend 3.7 trillion dollars in 2012 and by 2021 the U.S. government would be spending a whopping 5.6 trillion dollars (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/barack-obamas-budget-for-2012-a-complete-and-total-joke) per year.
#8 The U.S. government currently has to borrow approximately 41 cents (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/23/AR2010072304101.html?wprss=rss_print) of every single dollar that it spends.
#9 The total compensation that the federal government workforce earned last year came to a grand total of approximately 447 billion dollars (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/bye-bye-american-pie-10-reasons-why-americas-economic-pie-is-rapidly-shrinking).
#10 The U.S. national debt is currently rising by well over 4 billion dollars every single day.
#11 The U.S. government is borrowing over 2 million more dollars every single minute (http://www.defeatthedebt.com/understanding-the-national-debt/how-much-do-we-owe/).
#12 The U.S. national debt is over 14 times larger (http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo4.htm) than it was just 30 years ago.
#13 Unfunded liabilities for entitlement programs such as Social Security and Medicare are estimated to be well over $100 trillion (http://biggovernment.com/dmitchell/2010/05/10/the-national-debt-is-huge-but-unfunded-liabilities-are-americas-real-red-ink-challenge/), and nobody in the U.S. government seems to have any idea how we are actually even going to come close to meeting all of those obligations.
#14 If you were alive when Christ was born and you spent one million dollars every single day since that point, you still would not have spent one trillion dollars by now.
#15 If the federal government began right at this moment to repay the U.S. national debt at a rate of one dollar per second, it would take over 440,000 years (http://theeconomiccollapseblog.com/archives/17-national-debt-statistics-which-prove-that-we-have-sold-our-children-and-grandchildren-into-perpetual-debt-slavery) to pay off the national debt.




http://endoftheamericandream.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/US_National_Debt_Chart_2010.gif




SOURCE (http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/debt-debt-debt-15-facts-about-u-s-government-finances-that-are-almost-too-crazy-to-believe)

[Betonov]

Someone please explain to me how can one country have more debt than the GDP of the entire world. Economic wise, not political

[Skybird]

Someone please explain to me how can one country have more debt than the GDP of the entire world. Economic wise, not political

By making living on tic a way of life and delaying the start for paying back of debts to the next administration.

Or in other words: by biting off more than one can swallow.

Problem is the shortsightedness of people, which in our species seems to be by genetic design.

The US is not alone in the debt-making business, though. It just is the biggest, most dependent and effectinbg others as well offender. In %, Britain and Japan are much worse off.

Germany was on the way to a truly balanced fiscal budget some years ago, but then came the global crisis and next the bailing out of European mismasnagement that turned the currency union into an effective transfer union. Calculations done by government-indepedent fiscal analysist and economic experts show that the Merkel government in this and the past two years have set the course for the future fiscal ruin of Germany by still sticking with bailouts for the Euro crisis - no matter the cost.

The Socialists would not do it even better, but would sink even more money and make even more debts for social issues to buy voters' sympathy - ahte cost of destroying the future. And that is true for America as well. It makes no sense to now bash only Obama, when you see that since WWII governments of both parties set sails for always increasing debts. That starts with the stupidicty of American stimulaus policy (what I cut short by calling it "living on tic"), and ends with the unaffordably high military budgets. The simple truth is that by its own economic and fiscal potency the US in no way can finance the military giant sytructure it is running. It depends on others pumping money into America, and by that indirectly into the US military as well.

Needless to say that such madness cannot work for always. The longer it has lasted, the tougher will be the crash, the harder will be the wake-up call. And many ordinary people will be left at the sideline. It already has started.

America is stupid, and Europe is stupid. Both are stupid in different ways and interpretations of this effort of being stupid, but stupid they are both nevertheless.

[Happy Times]

Someone please explain to me how can one country have more debt than the GDP of the entire world. Economic wise, not political

Money as Debt
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArfPytAoeZ0&feature=related

Money, Banking and the Federal Reserve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iYZM58dulPE&feature=related

Basically dont worry about it if you dont have power to change it, just be prepared for when it all comes tumbling down.

[Betonov]

Basically dont worry about it if you dont have power to change it, just be prepared for when it all comes tumbling down.

Better start stockpilling guns, ammo and gold

[Armistead]

Add to that 60 trillion owed in medicare alone to those that have paid in, plus another 10 trillion in SS, that's more money in all the bank and stockmarkets in the world...

Course most of us know the facts, we'll never see either if you're under 50.
Oh, you'll still pay into it of course.

[Sailor Steve]

I remember the panic and finger-pointing when the overall National Debt hit one trillion dollars. Now the annual budget deficit is more than that.

Amazing.

[Oberon]

I wonder where it will all end. I mean, you can't just eliminate that level of debt, not without cutting just about everything and anything that moves and the public just won't let you do that, either that or the opposition will block it any way they can.

[Torplexed]

I wonder where it will all end. I mean, you can't just eliminate that level of debt, not without cutting just about everything and anything that moves and the public just won't let you do that, either that or the opposition will block it any way they can.

This dilemma does remind one of Thomas Jefferson's famous quote on the issue of slavery; "we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go."

[Oberon]

This dilemma does remind one of Thomas Jefferson's famous quote on the issue of slavery; "we have the wolf by the ear, and we can neither hold him, nor safely let him go."

That reminds me of another quote, "If you're riding a tiger, it's hard to get off."

[STEED]

We can not clear our own deficit on top of our debt but ours is nothing to what you guys have. :o

[nikimcbee]

Thank god we have rich people, let's just tax them.

I say we put on our pirate hats and visit soro's bank account.:arrgh!:

[gimpy117]

2 wars (that were the most expensive per troop ever) and then an economy that needed saving what else do you expect?

but it really shows you what happened. Clinton had it leveled out. that lasted long didn't it?

[Rilder]

Curious... what happens if a country like the US is just unable to pay its debt? :hmmm:

[Skybird]

When an aircraft at high altitude runs out of fuel, there are only two options, both of wich result in the same outcome.

Either you refuse to accept your status, try to hold altitude no matter what, by that you become slow, air finally stops flowing over the wings, you stall and fall down in an uncontrolled way, nose first.

Or you start looking for a place to conduct a controlled emergency landing, start to glide, trading altitude for sufficient speed to prevent stall, and that way go down - but hopefully without crashing, but doing a rough landing.

But anyway - down your way goes, this or that way, in both cases. America's current belief that it just can carry on like it always did, and that the old familiar ways will keep the plane in ther air, are illusory this time. It is a major turning point in American (and global) history, the end of a taken-for-granted part of American self-description. American optimism will not pull the car out of the mug this time, like it did so moften before. I do not have the impression that much of America already has fully realised the full historic dimension of this turning point. America will either fundamentally change - or break.

What current politicians in America do is to pull the stick to the max to not lose altitude, and making the people believe that one can keep altitude and speed with empty tanks by just imagining that there will be a magical in-flight fuel-up by magical fairy-tanker-flight 001 who does not even charge you for the costs of the magical fuel.

The AOA is becoming steeper and steeper, and the airspeed drops and drops further. Guess how that stunt necessarily must end.

One does not need to have a academical degree in economics in order to forsee the future. And economics is no science anyway.

[Oberon]

TLDR - It's Starfighter time.

[Rilder]

One does not need to have a academical degree in economics in order to forsee the future. And economics is no science anyway.

I get that whole analogy and what not and I know what the government is doing in regards to this... however my main question is what happens when this plane smashes into the ground? Besides everyone blaming the Lolwaffles.

[Skybird]

A massive mass-expropriation by hyperfinflation.

Breakdown of even the basic communal and social security systems.

Rich nations having been wise to disconnect from the dollar early using the opportunity to claim dominant key positions in the rubble that was and will be again the American economy. Massive shifting of property rights for this economy from America to foreign nations, namely Chinba, and maybe even rich oil Arab nations, Brasil, India.

Repeation of what has been seen in Argentinia, and in euriope in the past centuries. Practically all dominant european nations have gone bancrupt at least once in their past 500 years of history. It resultet always in loss of military dominance, and always was caused ba overstretched military biudgets and war budgets.

A m iulitary, an empire that tries to expand faster than it naturally grows, and spends more than it can produce in wealth by itself, and lives and militarily spends beyond what it can afford, is build on sand. Or it lives as long as there is still some rich new land to conquer and plunder, like a virus consumes an organism. But once the organism is consumed up and dies, so does the virus.

Mass unemployment, exploding poverty, more poorer people, fewer richer people. Cuts in education spending, health, culture. Loss sof global dominant status.

A tremendous immediate power transfer to the Chinese.

A struggling Europe.

A desintegration of transatlantic ties as a result.

Block-building in Asia. And I mean very strong block-building, dominated by the new superpower, China. Europe will financially collapse, and thenm the Union, or the carricature of a union that it is, will desintegrate. I do not rule out new wars and national civil wars in Europe. Not in the next future, but the medium and long term. I expect these European wars not to be fought on the latest hightech level, at least not generally - because nations probabaly will not be able to maintain huge hightech armies for international wars, and civil wars will see at least on of the two sides not having wide access to the nation's hightech armouries.

Many of these single symptoms already have started. It is hard to line out a single linear, causal reaction chain between them. Instead, much happens simultaneously.

Much of it also is a vicious circle that feeds back on its self-dynamic. From one point on, there is no more safe return. And I think that point already has been passed.

It's like a helicopter in a vortex. The more cyclic you apply, the faster you go down.

Certain is just one thing: the rich elites will have better chances to deal with the blow, than the middle class and the poor class. The latter will get caught by the lion's share of the blow.

I also see chance for an alternative scenario which I like even less. And that is that the US turns into a totalitarian and/or military dictatorship. Such a regime most likely will be an extremely isolationistic one, with closed gates in its city walls, and maintaining many hostilities with the world's nation around.

All in all I think we already are beyond Europe's climax. From now on, by trend things will go down - sometimes fast, sometimes slow. Europe's future will be decided - not in Europe. America's fall will hurt it tremendously, and the future reign will be negotiated between the Chinese and the Muslim sphere of power - the one acting with economics, the other with ideology.

Two uncertainties difficult top be assessed here, are these: the consequences and reaction to of the Chinese one-child-policy which is leading to an overaging population there, too, and the success or failure of the Arab states to compensate for the loss of oil reserves by annecting major positions of influence in European industry and hightech corporations. On the first, we have no influence, on the latter we must realise that having Arab inverstors in our key economic companies and big corprorations, is not in our longterm interests, but leaves us defenceless in the future to come.

[TorpX]

I get that whole analogy and what not and I know what the government is doing in regards to this... however my main question is what happens when this plane smashes into the ground? Besides everyone blaming the Lolwaffles.
I'm guessing it would be kind of like what happened with the Soviet Union. We will be a former "super-power" with rockets and nukes, but without the funds to maintain them. People, who bought the promises of socialism, will be unhappy and bitter. Standards of living will decline.

What gets me, is that many here still don't accept the need for real budget cuts. We could still adopt a strategy that would avoid the worst aspects of an economic collapse, but Obama, Reid and the others won't hear of it. Any meaningful level of cutbacks are considered "too extreme".

[krashkart]

I hope I'm not being an ******* by saying this, but:


Give the government any kind of money and they will spend it on *cigarettes and beer. To hell with paying the power bill for the month.


* Some countries can still afford to pay for their weapons (and other assorted worthless bull**** items). Other countries have to reign it in a bit to keep their workforce from starving to death.

Nothing ever really changes in human history. :-?

[Armistead]

The bigger problem, just how much value did we get for all that debt.
Many studies show right at 40% of what's spent in some way lined the pockets of a very few. Another said studies and committees figuring out how to spend it wasted another 10%...Simply, bunch of lawyers became millionaires, war profit. As long as we have mostly lawyers running government, were screwed.

No doubt this nation will fall as a leading power in the next 20 years, if not less. Most agree another crisis could tumble down in a matter of years, creating levels of poverty that many would be back living like people did in the 1800's, without power and gardening for food.

[Castout]

Sense of urgency is needed to deal with this. Can't possibly expect economic growth to solve this.

I had a chat with as steam friend who claimed to be living in Texas but with altogether different timezone than Texas and a distinctly Singaporean accent though he claimed to be American Thai. Weird thing for an American he was pretty anti American. He said he was glad US dominance is over or going to be over soon.

I know US is not a saint but I'd prefer it much than China dominance.
I really hope this debt crisis can be dealt with. Reduced US influence is inevitable it seems but I don't think you can really ignore it still in the future provided US is well run.

Europe is not exactly in pretty picture as well and Japan may be facing its biggest crisis thanks to the latest Earthquake and nuclear crisis.
The only thing that still looks good is China. It;s worrisome to me. You can't expect pretty things from a government who persecutes their own citizens without second thoughts. Don't get me wrong I have nothing against China people but people in China don't run their government and have no say in it whatsoever. Govt with access to resources draws the kind of people they want or prefer so it becomes a skewed representative or distorted face of the Chinese people in general.

[bookworm_020]

The US is not alone in the debt-making business, though. It just is the biggest, most dependent and effectinbg others as well offender. In %, Britain and Japan are much worse off.

Japan is the biggest in the world. I believe that Germany is the biggest in Europe.

I hear here in Australia that they are worried about the level of debt Australia has accrued, but as a % it's still one of the smallest around in the developed world and is managed reasonably well.

Guess we are lucky to a degree. Many retailers are screaming that people aren't buying from them any more, instead shopping on line or going overseas on trips to buy goods. But the reserve bank doesn't care, people are saving again, credit card growth has almost halted and people are living within their means. Even with low unemployment and good wage growth, people are paying off debts and avoiding accruing new ones.

[TorpX]

Give the government any kind of money and they will spend it on *cigarettes and beer. To hell with paying the power bill for the month.


* Some countries can still afford to pay for their weapons (and other assorted worthless bull**** items). Other countries have to reign it in a bit to keep their workforce from starving to death.

Nothing ever really changes in human history. :-?
Yes, this seems to be the sad truth.
I think governments in general will be just as abusive, corrupt, and arrogant as they are allowed to be.



The bigger problem, just how much value did we get for all that debt.
Many studies show right at 40% of what's spent in some way lined the pockets of a very few. Another said studies and committees figuring out how to spend it wasted another 10%...Simply, bunch of lawyers became millionaires, war profit. As long as we have mostly lawyers running government, were screwed.


I consider the problem to be even worse than this. If one pays too much for a house or a tractor you may suffer a economic setback, but this will be temporary. And you do benefit from what you have worked for. If you spend a large sum of money gambling and using heroin, you not only have nothing positive to show for it, but have undermined your well being in the long-term.

The U.S. has actually spent huge sums (and incurred enormous debts), in making a shockingly large segment of our population dependant on gov't largess. Now we can neither continue these programs nor readily dismantle them. The worst part of this is that all of it was self-inflicted and completely unnecessary.

[Armistead]

I consider the problem to be even worse than this. If one pays too much for a house or a tractor you may suffer a economic setback, but this will be temporary. And you do benefit from what you have worked for. If you spend a large sum of money gambling and using heroin, you not only have nothing positive to show for it, but have undermined your well being in the long-term.

The U.S. has actually spent huge sums (and incurred enormous debts), in making a shockingly large segment of our population dependant on gov't largess. Now we can neither continue these programs nor readily dismantle them. The worst part of this is that all of it was self-inflicted and completely unnecessary.


That's our government. One only need to study history, government would rather throw crumbs through social programs than solve problems when they arise. Also, many of these programs control people, their lives and vote.

Not to pick on a race, but take what we did to black people, for years racism in one form or the other kept them in poverty. There was a time for real education, legal rights, etc., that would've been a better change. I'm talking in the 30's. These rights were ignored. Those in power thought it better to throw crumbs than give them any power or wealth. Even today only a few percent of black have any generational wealth as whites have passed on for hundreds of years. Instead of the tools and fair laws that were needed, many social programs were created. These often trap people, but if you're starving, you'll take the crumbs.

We did the same thing with health care. We turned it into a system of mass profits for corporations and basically let big insurance create closet
monopolies. Between insurance and pharma, Doctor's now have to treat totally different than what they once did. So, the government provides medicaid/care, etc..if you qualify, but it can't keep up and unsubstainable and in the next 20 years millions of americans will suffer and die due to illness, many do today.

Government will never do the right thing at the right time. They sell out. Even when things crumble, they sell out.

The GOP is creating a two class system under the guise of capitalism, it's sending this nation into wholesale poverty. The Dems being more liberal towards those in poverty want the rich to pay for the basic needs. I'd say they have the higher moral ground, but both routes will doom this nation.

[Freiwillige]

First off I feel the alarm bells have been ringing for sometime. Its like the fire alarm going off in your burning house but you hitting the snooze button on your alarm clock cause your just to comfortable to get up and deal with the impending doom.

One scenario that could happen is a page out of uncle Adolph's playbook.

Switching the US monetary system away from gold and silver to production and introducing a new currency worth nothing outside of our own borders. And just like Adolph watch the world go nuts! Sure America would instantly find itself on a war footing but it stave's off our immediate collapse and if we win the next big one we might be in a whole new position.

Just a thought.

[TorpX]

Switching the US monetary system away from gold and silver to production and introducing a new currency worth nothing outside of our own borders. And just like Adolph watch the world go nuts! Sure America would instantly find itself on a war footing but it stave's off our immediate collapse and if we win the next big one we might be in a whole new position.

I thought we have been off the gold standard for years.

As far as currency that is not worth anything outside our borders, that may happen anyway. I know the Fed has been inflating the currency quite a lot, but it is only starting to be felt.

If someone had predicted all of this 20 years ago, people would have laughed at him. It is almost beyond belief. :nope:

[mookiemookie]

introducing a new currency worth nothing outside of our own borders.

No such thing. As long as we produce goods for export or buy imported goods, there will be a market for American currency.

Say you're a French wine importer. You sell your French wine to American consumers. Since you're in France, you need to be paid in Euros. The American importer sells his dollars for Euros and pays you.

You're an American pharmaceutical manufacturer. You sell your drugs to Thailand. The Thais sell their Baht and buy dollars to settle their accounts with you.

As you can see, any sort of international trade is going to require currency exchange. To shut down all foreign trade would cripple American business, and you'd see a mass exodus from this country. The idea just doesn't work.

[UnderseaLcpl]

No such thing. As long as we produce goods for export or buy imported goods, there will be a market for American currency.

Say you're a French wine importer. You sell your French wine to American consumers. Since you're in France, you need to be paid in Euros. The American importer sells his dollars for Euros and pays you.

You're an American pharmaceutical manufacturer. You sell your drugs to Thailand. The Thais sell their Baht and buy dollars to settle their accounts with you.

As you can see, any sort of international trade is going to require currency exchange. To shut down all foreign trade would cripple American business, and you'd see a mass exodus from this country. The idea just doesn't work.

QFT. Our economy is worth nothing without interchangeable global currency as a medium. Your idea is like trying to set gas prices with keepsakes that have nothing but sentimental value. We're a powerful economy, to be sure, even a commanding one, but we can't arbitrarily change the currency system on everyone and expect them to oblige us. It just doesn't work that way.

There must always be a perceived equal exchange for economics to work. You can't just arbitrarily change the perception.

[les green01]

too much and you can't blame one party over the other as both are guilty a politician is like a lawyer or a insurance company you know you going get a screwing anyway you go.just like us bailing out the auto's out and wall street when it comes to the auto's they basic price theirselfs out 50k to 60k for a regular pickup,then when the mortage going on wallstreet people said people should pay theirs bills and they wouldnt be losing their homes really who you think just bail your worthless asses out.

[Ducimus]

I'm starting to think our debt is the end result of years of deregulation and allowing those in positions of influence to run riot in the name of pure, unbridaled capitalism. Granted, too much regulation is a bad thing, buisness and industry will leave, but too little is equally as bad because we are human.

The one thing you can count on from humanity, regardless of whatever system is adopted by a society, is greed and self interest. Our national debt, is a result of this. The politicians, Lobbyists, and Wall street are responsible. Each has been playing the system for the loopholes, each trying to get a larger chunk of the pie, each out only for themselves. They've all been running riot, and we the people are the ones who will be paying for it.

BTW, Capitalism is great, it is the best system, but it needs temperance. Pure unbridaled, unregulated capitalism, is a failure, and should be a dead concept. I can of 14,277,069,321,700 reasons why.

edit:
US debt. Some of that is war costs. So here's a gripe. If I can live within my means, why can't the F'ing government? I owe, a grand total of 200 dollars in gas on a credit card. That's my "debt" which will be paid at the end of the month. Buy now, pay later is bad. M'kay?

[Sailor Steve]

I'm starting to think our debt is the end result of years of deregulation and allowing those in positions of influence to run riot in the name of pure, unbridaled capitalism. Granted, too much regulation is a bad thing, buisness and industry will leave, but too little is equally as bad because we are human.
The National Debt is the accumulation of the Federal Budget Deficit. It is the result of Congress spending more than they make, and nothing else. I agree about regulation and deregulation, but I'm pretty sure the National Debt has zero to do with either regulation or capitalism.

[UnderseaLcpl]

The National Debt is the accumulation of the Federal Budget Deficit. It is the result of Congress spending more than they make, and nothing else. I agree about regulation and deregulation, but I'm pretty sure the National Debt has zero to do with either regulation or capitalism.

Quoted for irrefutable truth. The national debt is exactly that, the debt of the nation, which is to say the national government. Private industry and citizens have nothing to do with it, save where they have bought national bonds. Private entities do not accumulate debt, at least not for long. They either profit or they go away or get bought or seized or restructured or any number of other means in which an entity can cease to exist. Government, not so much, obviously.

[Catfish]

The National Debt is the accumulation of the Federal Budget Deficit. It is the result of Congress spending more than they make, and nothing else. I agree about regulation and deregulation, but I'm pretty sure the National Debt has zero to do with either regulation or capitalism.

Certainly it is ! Where does this abstract government spend the money ?


A bit goes to the health system; with rising costs - companies have raised their costs for medicaments enormously.

Another (tiny) bit goes indeed to social welfare, what's wrong about that ?

Another tranche goes to schools and universities, which is a wise method to improve the nation overall.

Also most museums are paid by the government, or did you think some companies pay them ?

And the major part ? Military ! Those submarines cost money ! Also flattops, planes, maintenance, training, personnel.
And the governmenet pays the companies what they demand. The latter are not in for patriotism, they are getting paid for every rivet, or sonar system they build and install.
Playing the Sheriff all over the world also costs big money.
If it is the government which is to blame, a good part of that can be sought for with the arms and weapons lobbies. The government should not always listen to them ! As well the CIA threatens the politicians with horror scenarios, to get enough funds for their own work, and hardware. Who do you think paid "Operation paperclip", or "Gladio" ?

Greetings,
Catfish

P.S. if this sounds arrogant or what, i do not say nor believe that the german system (or any other) is any better. But we have to find a solution, if we want not too much taxes on one hand, but on the other be able to care for our own population, and additionally help (or bomb) other countries. Someone always has to pay.

[Sailor Steve]

My post was in direct response to Ducimus. Where or how it is spent is irrelevant to the point I was making, which is that neither private nor industrial debt is part of the National Debt, so deregulation and unbridled capitalism don't affect it directly. Bailouts do cross over, but it is still Congress choosing to spend money which they neither earn nor deserve, but either take or borrow. That borrowing part is what comprises the National Debt.

[Ducimus]

I agree about regulation and deregulation, but I'm pretty sure the National Debt has zero to do with either regulation or capitalism.

I'd agree with you except it is my belief that the government, or more specifically, the politicians that comprise the govertnment, are little more then puppets for corporate and special interests. That's how regulation and capitalism enter the picture. They are the ones who pull the strings. The wall street bailout, pretty much makes that irrefutable i would think.

[sidslotm]

I'm confused, or is that unsure, no thank Heaven, it's just bewildered.:sunny: