looking for some graphics card pointers

[Weiss Pinguin]

Okay, so I 'inherited' a HP slimline (s3020n), and now I'm wondering what I can do with it graphics-wise, and I thought I'd ask the geniuses in for advice. Specs are here (http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/document?docname=c00871067&tmp_task=prodinfoCategory&lc=en&dlc=en&cc=us&site=null&key=null&product=3376325#N79)

Now that I finally have a machine with a PCI-e slot I'm having an orgasm just thinking about what kind of card I can finally run... obviously whatever I do I'll have to bump up the PSU as well. Also price limit is $75. Really, now that I've calmed down again, I'm mainly looking for something that'll run a game like SH4 on medium-high settings. :hmmm: Also I haven't kept up with graphics cards in the last couple of years because looking at them just made me want to cut myself, so I have no idea what's going on at the moment.

Anyways

[the_tyrant]

I would say an ati 3850
don't know how much it would cost on ebay though

[JSLTIGER]

OK...good news and bad news.

Good news first: PCI-E is the bus you need to run modern graphics cards.

Bad news: Your options are EXTREMELY limited, mostly because of the form factor. Slimline computers are a PITA to get graphics cards for and you can almost never get the high end cards (they're too big for the form factor). Slimline cards also tend to be more expensive than their full size counterparts...

My ATI recommendation for you: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102874

My nvidia recommendation: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814500177

Neither of these cards are great for gaming, but they're likely the best you're going to be able to do for the slimline form factor (and not to mention the $75 budget). :-?

[Arclight]

You really want to stick another GB of RAM in there as well, me thinks. :hmmm:

[Weiss Pinguin]

OK...good news and bad news.

Good news first: PCI-E is the bus you need to run modern graphics cards.

Bad news: Your options are EXTREMELY limited, mostly because of the form factor. Slimline computers are a PITA to get graphics cards for and you can almost never get the high end cards (they're too big for the form factor). Slimline cards also tend to be more expensive than their full size counterparts.
Yeah, after poking around the intertubes a little bit, my raging nerdboner kind of died. :( Also, I was just looking at those two cards, haha. Yeah I guess they won't be able to keep up with anything released in the next year or two, but anything is better than the GeForce 5200 I used to run. Another thing is the power supply... I hadn't thought of the tiny case when I started looking around at PSU's, any ideas on where to start looking for something that'll fit into a 4 inch wide case?

You really want to stick another GB of RAM in there as well, me thinks.
Yep, we stuck in another stick of RAM a while back. 2GB is nothing to brag about, but it's better than nothing :hmmm:

[Weiss Pinguin]

Okay, another (probably stupid) question: the specs on these cards state the minimum required watts and then something like 'Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 22 Amps'

What happens if you try to run a card with a PSU that gives less than the recommended amps? :hmmm:

[Gerald]

Okay, another (probably stupid) question: the specs on these cards state the minimum required watts and then something like 'Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 22 Amps'

What happens if you try to run a card with a PSU that gives less than the recommended amps? :hmmm: Maybe CTD? Since it can not deliver the necessary

[Feuer Frei!]

Okay, another (probably stupid) question: the specs on these cards state the minimum required watts and then something like 'Minimum recommended power supply with +12 Volt current rating of 22 Amps'

What happens if you try to run a card with a PSU that gives less than the recommended amps? :hmmm:

Running on the skimpy side is dangerous,
because the system can shut down without warning, possibly corrupting data on your hard drive.
Amongst other things happening as well ofc.
There really is a reason why gpu manufacturers recommend minimum requirements! :salute:

[Weiss Pinguin]

I was afraid of that :nope: So far all the PSUs small enough to fit in the slimline (that I've found) don't have a high enough rating. (highest I saw on newegg was 16 amps at 12 volts)

[Gerald]

I was afraid of that :nope: So far all the PSUs small enough to fit in the slimline (that I've found) don't have a high enough rating. (highest I saw on newegg was 16 amps at 12 volts) You need an upgrade, it sounds like, in your words

[Weiss Pinguin]

So after doing some checking around on www.game-debate.com (I don't know how good the numbers are, but they make me happy so I'm going with it :haha:), the GT 430 should be enough for a lot recent-ish games, or at least the ones that interest me. That's assuming the card fits into this little case... and it had better g(osh)d(arn) fit...

Now I just have to find a good enough PSU and I can get serious about this :damn: The card I have now is killing me, barely a step up from the GeForce 5200 I used to run...

[Weiss Pinguin]

Okay, another stupid question: Would it be feasible to use this dedicated graphics card and CPU power supply (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817101044&cm_re=modular_power_supply-_-17-101-044-_-Product), outside the case, for the card (and I guess the CPU) and keep the dinky 160W PSU for everything else? I read a review in the feedback section that sounds like someone did basically the same thing :hmmm: (Oh sweet jebus I hope I can)

I guess it's probably not an easy question to answer without seeing the components...

[JSLTIGER]

Feasible? Probably. Would you really want to? Probably not.

In order to hook something like that up, you'd have to leave the side of the case open so that you could run the power cords to the proper components. Depending on the design of the case you have (I'm not entirely sure how HP designs theirs), opening the side of the case may actually hurt the airflow inside by preventing an airflow stream from forming. Also, you'd be exposing a lot of components to a lot more dust and the risk of something interfering with the fans inside the case. Much higher chance of component failure that way.

Would what you are suggesting work? Yeah, probably. Do I think it's a good idea/would I do it? Absolutely not.

If you're thinking about going this route, I'd suggest just buying an entirely new case, demounting the motherboard from the slimline case and remounting it into the new case (provided you know what you're doing of course. Otherwise you're just begging for trouble and may fry the system). You may be able to take the optical drive and move it over as well. Not only would it solve your problems with the slimline case, but you'd be able to purchase a full-size card (greatly expanding your options) and a normal PSU. That being said, I don't know that what I'm suggesting is feasible given your budgetary situation.

EDIT: Don't forget to check the reviews of this thing...not the best in the world...

[Weiss Pinguin]

Yeah, I read the reviews on that and they seemed pretty polarized... either five stars and endless praise or one star and a 'can't believe I fell for it'.

Since I can't seem to find any mini ITX power supplies with enough juice I guess a new case is what I'd have to go with :-? How difficult would it be to transfer the motherboard to a fullsize case? (I could probably, maybe, get some help with it) Or if I transferred over to a case with a similar form factor. (something like this (http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=6430029&CatId=3428), same general measurements (deeper tho) and a 450W PSU)

Man, this slimline is so not worth it :nope: :haha:

Edit: Or I guess alternatively I could just go with a low profile GT 220, which recommends a minimum of 12v @ 18 amps, and try the 220W PSU I found on newegg that has a output of 12v@18A...

[JSLTIGER]

That case doesn't look like it's going to help you all that much. It looks like another slimline case to me.

It sounds to me like you've never transferred a system from one case to another before. Given that, I would not mess with it if I were you. Too many things can easily go wrong in the transfer when you don't know what you're doing.

Also, the specs of this machine mean that it's not really worth doing the move. You'd be better off grabbing a newer machine.

[Weiss Pinguin]

That case doesn't look like it's going to help you all that much. It looks like another slimline case to me.

It sounds to me like you've never transferred a system from one case to another before. Given that, I would not mess with it if I were you. Too many things can easily go wrong in the transfer when you don't know what you're doing.
Nope, not personally. I guess I'll just leave it alone. I'll keep looking and see what comes up for now... bugger, so close, yet so far.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Okay, after realizing I was reading the outputs wrong on the PSUs, I went back and now I think I have a setup: either the Radeon 5570 or Geforce GT 430 running on http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817342032&cm_re=flex_atx-_-17-342-032-_-Product power supply (300W, 32 amps total). Thoughts? Not the best gaming rig, but for the heavier games I've got my Xbox ;)

[JSLTIGER]

Power supply link does not work.

[Weiss Pinguin]

ROFL yeah I guess that won't work :haha: Here it is: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817342032&cm_re=flex_atx-_-17-342-032-_-Product

[JSLTIGER]

I think you're going to be stuck with the nvidia solution. The Radeon 5570 recommends at least a 400W PSU, while the nvidia card can handle the 300W PSU.

[Weiss Pinguin]

Yeah. Well, the GT 430 won't run everything on high settings, but it'll get the job done until I can get a normal-sized computer to mess with. Plus I can get it at BestBuy and use that $50 gift card that's been gathering dust...

[Weiss Pinguin]

Well in the end, after finally poking around inside my case, I've decided to wait another month or two when I'll be able to just get a new computer instead of trying to upgrade this slimline.

So now I'm just wondering what you guys would think of taking a regular, low-end pre-built computer (that's expandable, of course), and replacing the PSU, adding a graphics card, adding RAM, etc. After looking around for a week or so I've found decent computers that appear to have potential, like, for example, the Lenovo IdeaCentre H405 (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16883108456&cm_re=h405-_-83-108-456-_-Product) (or maybe 410), which I could get off Amazon for about $345.99 (with FREE super saver shipping!!! according to Amazon). I hadn't heard much about Lenovo until now, but they seem to have generally positive reviews.

But there are other computers out there to choose from, and anyway I was really wondering if you more experienced folks would consider buying and upgrading a low-end home desktop as opposed to ordering a computer with what I want to be worth the money it would, in theory, save. :hmmm: It wouldn't necessarily be pretty, and I wouldn't end up with a lightning fast gaming rig, but it would be enough to run games from the last couple of years, and as for newer games, well, I'm used to playing on super-low settings.