Anchor babies, and "Maternity tourists"

[Ducimus]

I liked the headline on Fark.

Old and busted: Illegal immigrants giving birth to American anchor babies. New hotness: Wealthy Chinese coming to the US on tourist visas to give birth to American anchor babies

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/29/us/29babies.html?_r=2&hp

Not surprising really, China practically owns us.

[the_tyrant]

lol, the reaction to this sort of thing is the exact opposite in china

"because the kids of the influential and government officials are all in america, China's government fears war or confrontation with america"

they think chinese government officials fear "accidents" happening to their kids

[UnderseaLcpl]

Not surprising really, China practically owns us.

I disagree, but I'm sure you've probably had enough of my overlong responses for the time being. However, I am curious as to why you would say that Chinese people wanting to have babies in the US is indicative of or in any way related to them "owning us". I don't follow your reasoning.

[Ducimus]

That was sarcasm, and a vague and indirect reference to how every things made in china, and the 1.16 trillion they have in holdings here. Since that is the current situation i do not find it surprising they're abuse of the 14th amendment. They own a good portion of this country already by way of industry, outsourced jobs, and economy, why not go for citizenship while their at it?

[Tchocky]

If I owe you a billion dollars, I got a problem.

If I owe you a trillion dolars, you got a problem.

[UnderseaLcpl]

You don't think that maybe they're trying to get over here for the same reason they always have, Deuce? That the US is a better place to live than China?

If I owe you a billion dollars, I got a problem.

If I owe you a trillion dolars, you got a problem.


Indeed. And China has more problems than that, at least for the moment. China is reliant on the US as a market to sell its goods. That's why they invest so heavily in us, not because they think they can get even partial ownership of the country by lending us money. One day, however, their standard of living will improve to the point that the Chinese economy shifts out of manufacturing and more into service and finance. If we're not well ahead of where we are at the moment, they will replace us as the world's preminent monopsony, and our economy may well start heading back to manufacturing.

[Ducimus]

You don't think that maybe they're trying to get over here for the same reason they always have, Deuce? That the US is a better place to live than China?

The article said "wealthy" Chinese. They are already well off. What they're basically doing is coming over here, popping out the kid, then heading right back to china. These are not factory workers. They obviously have the means. If they have the means, i doubt their life is all that bad. Hell, I sure as hell can't afford a trip like that.

One day, however, their standard of living will improve to the point that the Chinese economy shifts out of manufacturing and more into service and finance.

I suspect one day they'll have a repeat of the industrial revolution and the rise of labor unions, EPA, and all the things big buisness hate, that the lack off makes things so profitable over there. Assuming China's communist roots don't stamp them out with an iron heel.


If we're not well ahead of where we are at the moment,

Given our current poltitical and economic situation, I personally don't see us moving forward at all.

they will replace us as the world's preminent monopsony,

I think they are well on the way to being the premier superpower of the future.

and our economy may well start heading back to manufacturing.
Nothing wrong with that. Well all have jobs, and the middle class might even return to its former prosperity instead of being in decline.

[the_tyrant]

Nothing wrong with that. Well all have jobs, and the middle class might even return to its former prosperity instead of being in decline.

that will probably not happen
all the low end jobs are now in china, mexico, etc
it will probably never come back to america unless americans are willing to work for 1$ an hour.
More likely they will go to africa, or robots will do it

[Ducimus]

Yeah your right. Boardroom suits will always find someplace to outsource our work to.

edit:
it occurs to me, the reason that is so, aside from greed, is to keep the corporate "cost of living" down. Cost of living is why, aside from greed, is why employee's ask for raises to begin with. Furthermore, the cost of living, is always on the rise (while paychecks remain unchanged).

So until we somehow lower the cost of living the US (shopping at wallmart does not count and does more harm then good), the job's aint never coming back.

That's my crackpot economic theory.

And wow, have i totally derailed my own thread.

[tater]

Least if the kids utilize their American citizenship later—they will be rich (assuming the rich part is right). That means they will actually contribute meaningful taxes. Kids of illegals are likely to never find themselves in a tax bracket that even pays a fair share, much less overpays to support others.

BTW, while I am still against this practice (I think the parents need to at least be LEGAL residents to have a US kid), the US needs more people, not fewer. Immigration overall is good for the US, the more the better.

[August]

Wealthy Chinese having American anchor babies sounds like sort of like an insurance policy that if things go bad in the homeland they have someplace to run to. Not an unreasonable thing to do I think, given that the Chinese regime was merrily executing folks just like them not all that long ago.

[Growler]

Wealthy Chinese having American anchor babies sounds like sort of like an insurance policy that if things go bad in the homeland they have someplace to run to. Not an unreasonable thing to do I think, given that the Chinese regime was merrily executing folks just like them not all that long ago.

21st Century Boat People (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boat_people#Vietnamese_boat_people).

[Ducimus]

Immigration overall is good for the US, the more the better.


NOOOOOO! We need fewer people! This place is bloody crowded! At least California is. This place is way overpopulated. Has been for several years. Your constantly having to step over or around some idiot, some moron, some retard, some dick, some schmuck, some jack wagon that is constantly in your way. I'm sick of it. Need elbow room dammit!

[Growler]

NOOOOOO! We need fewer people! This place is bloody crowded! At least California is. This place is way overpopulated. Has been for several years. Your constantly having to step over or around some idiot, some moron, some retard, some dick, some schmuck, some jack wagon that is constantly in your way. I'm sick of it. Need elbow room dammit!

Shoot, then stay out of the Bos-Was corridor over on the East Coast, if you're feeling crowded.

From may experience on the I-5 and I-10 around LA and down to San Diego, at least the traffic seemed to make sense. The Beltways around Baltimore/Washington, and I-95 in general would make the baby Jesus swear off breast milk for Jack Daniels' and Marlboros.

[Ducimus]

I have no east coast aspirations. Maybe visit DC once, see the smithsonian and all of that, but that's about it. I learned awhile ago, born and raised out west? Stay out west!

Problem is, all these damn people started to move here, and they come from all over.

[tater]

NOOOOOO! We need fewer people! This place is bloody crowded! At least California is. This place is way overpopulated. Has been for several years. Your constantly having to step over or around some idiot, some moron, some retard, some dick, some schmuck, some jack wagon that is constantly in your way. I'm sick of it. Need elbow room dammit!

I agree in unrealistic principle, but then reality sets in. The US needs more workers. If you look at the current population, much of it is a big bubble of old people. Urban types will cram together, and there is still loads of room. The entire population of the Earth could fit in an area the size of Yugoslavia with a population density equal to Orange County, CA.

Room is not really a problem.

[August]

The entire population of the Earth could fit in an area the size of Yugoslavia with a population density equal to Orange County, CA.

For about 15 seconds before we reached critical mass and exploded.

[Growler]

I have no east coast aspirations. Maybe visit DC once, see the smithsonian and all of that, but that's about it. I learned awhile ago, born and raised out west? Stay out west!

Problem is, all these damn people started to move here, and they come from all over.

Hate to say it, Ducimus, but having lived here in the hell that is the Bos-Was corridor all my life, I'm heading out to SoCal - either Diego or the mountains - as soon as I can. I'll probably be renting for the rest of my life, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be a miserable old East Coast prat for much longer.

[tater]

Hate to say it, Ducimus, but having lived here in the hell that is the Bos-Was corridor all my life, I'm heading out to SoCal - either Diego or the mountains - as soon as I can. I'll probably be renting for the rest of my life, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be a miserable old East Coast prat for much longer.

Having been to LA, San Diego, and now San Francisco (limited travels in CA, I realize), I have to say I like SF the best by far. Urban, but still felt townish in some ways. Looked like you could get out away from the city, too, but still be able to visit (though I think the Bay area tends to be expensive, or if not as expensive, not where you'd wanna live).

For the west there is always the mountain states. Far less crowded, but you'll get a fair bit of winter north of New Mexico (and a decent amount in northern NM). Also way cheaper.

[August]

Having lived for a short time in Monterey (Ft Ord) I have to say California is beautiful but I would never want to live there. Too expensive and the population is too nutty for my tastes.

[Ducimus]

I agree in unrealistic principle, but then reality sets in. The US needs more workers.
We do? And here i thought we had more workers then we had jobs to go around. :88)

If you look at the current population, much of it is a big bubble of old people.
Retiring baby boomers as i recall. Id add on to that, but i think i'll let it go . :haha:


Urban types will cram together, and there is still loads of room. The entire population of the Earth could fit in an area the size of Yugoslavia with a population density equal to Orange County, CA.

Room is not really a problem.

Have you tried living around Orange county Ca? I have. Hell, im through that area, every stinking day. Every hear of the "orange crush"? How about that joy of joy's called the 91 freeway? Every try renting out here? In Anaheim, you can expect a single room apartment to run you 1300 dollars a month. And that price quote is from 2 or 3 years ago. Since rent ONLY goes up around here, and NEVER goes down, i shudder to think what it is now.I also shudder to think what rent will be 5 years from now. I've lived in apartments for the last 11 or 12 years, i have NEVER seen rent stay the same or go down. ONLY UP UP UP UP UP U UUUUUUUUUUUUPPPPPPPPPP!!!!!!

*cough* s'cuse me... had a spastic moment there.

The thing is, i remember how southern california used to be. And i see how it is now. I have a point of comparison, and i don't like the changes.

Hate to say it, Ducimus, but having lived here in the hell that is the Bos-Was corridor all my life, I'm heading out to SoCal - either Diego or the mountains - as soon as I can. I'll probably be renting for the rest of my life, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be a miserable old East Coast prat for much longer.

Hell from the sounds of things you might like it out here. As far as I'm concerned,, you can have it, and everything that goes with it. Hopefully i'll be long gone in the next few months. :woot::salute:

[Growler]

Having been to LA, San Diego, and now San Francisco (limited travels in CA, I realize), I have to say I like SF the best by far. Urban, but still felt townish in some ways. Looked like you could get out away from the city, too, but still be able to visit (though I think the Bay area tends to be expensive, or if not as expensive, not where you'd wanna live).

For the west there is always the mountain states. Far less crowded, but you'll get a fair bit of winter north of New Mexico (and a decent amount in northern NM). Also way cheaper.

I freakin' loved Diego, esp Old Town, but the whole area just seemed pretty casual, and the food just couldn't be beat. Best carnitas I ever had down in Old Town - as my son put it: "What do you expect? The people making the food only got there that day." (So not-PC, but hey, he's a SFC and headed for his fifth trip to unfriendly climes - he's earned the right.)

As to NM, well, I'm sure you remember some of what we spoke about a few months ago, regarding your home "mountain," so believe me, the Missus and I have spoken more than once about living there or in Santa Fe; that said, her work is - likely in the next two-three months - taking her to LA. Without going into to much verboten detail, suffice it to say that it involves Hollyweird, so living in NM would be a bit of a hellacious commute.

Having lived for a short time in Monterey (Ft Ord) I have to say California is beautiful but I would never want to live there. Too expensive and the population is too nutty for my tastes.

Still, I'll take my chances out there. I mean, I'm already used to living with nuts this close to DC. At least in Southern California, I won't be dealing with normal residential nuts and transplanted political ones. Shoot, if anything, living this close to DC has well prepared me for dealing with nuts, sorta like learning to drive in Boston prepares a guy for driving anywhere (but Italy, from what I hear).

[Growler]

Hell from the sounds of things you might like it out here. As far as I'm concerned,, you can have it, and everything that goes with it. Hopefully i'll be long gone in the next few months. :woot::salute:

Heh... Well, yeah, I did like it out there. As crazy as it may sound, it seemed to be far MORE sane than the area I'm living now. Was it busy? Yeah, it was that - but at least it moved, even if slowly at times. Out here, if you're not out of the city by 1600, you might as well work the next two hours - you'd get home at the same time either way, but with less risk of incurring combat damage and/or wounds along the way. These people are lunatics.

If you want to live an hour out of DC, I know of a house that might be going up for rent... LOL

[tater]

There is a lot of film making going on in NM over the last few years. A large studio here in ABQ, and shooting all over. I saw one of the Breaking Bad guys at the zoo a couple weekends ago (our kids were playing on the jungle gym).

But yeah, a bit of a commute (though my brother in law in CT spend more than the 1.5 hour flight from here to LA some days to get much less far on I-95 :) )

My observations are merely from a tourist POV. I like SD better than LA or Pasadena, that's for sure. I just like SF more. To live it would be hard, though. I doubt I could find a place I'd consider "acceptable" in SF for under several million bucks, and since we don;t have several million bucks for a house... :)

If money were no object, I'd like SF best, put it that way. In the real world, I'm all for the flyover states, as long as they have mountains.

[Growler]

There is a lot of film making going on in NM over the last few years. A large studio here in ABQ, and shooting all over. I saw one of the Breaking Bad guys at the zoo a couple weekends ago (our kids were playing on the jungle gym).

But yeah, a bit of a commute (though my brother in law in CT spend more than the 1.5 hour flight from here to LA some days to get much less far on I-95 :) )

My observations are merely from a tourist POV. I like SD better than LA or Pasadena, that's for sure. I just like SF more. To live it would be hard, though. I doubt I could find a place I'd consider "acceptable" in SF for under several million bucks, and since we don;t have several million bucks for a house... :)

If money were no object, I'd like SF best, put it that way. In the real world, I'm all for the flyover states, as long as they have mountains.

What I liked best about the mountains in Southern California was the fact that it's doesn't get mind-numbingly cold, you still get snow, you're not that far from being someplace warmer - summers seemed comfortable without being East Coast 900,000% humidity, and winters seemed fairly negotiable, whereas out here, six inches of snow and you'd think it was The Day After Tomorrow or something.

[Ducimus]

What I liked best about the mountains in Southern California was the fact that it's doesn't get mind-numbingly cold, you still get snow, you're not that far from being someplace warmer - summers seemed comfortable without being East Coast 900,000% humidity, and winters seemed fairly negotiable, whereas out here, six inches of snow and you'd think it was The Day After Tomorrow or something.

Heh, yeah i guess. Last time i went hiking i didn't have any crampons, and ended up falling on my ass about 4 or 5 times coming down the mountain. Snow melts during the day, and refreezes at night, creating some pretty slick ice on the trail.

You might enjoy's these pictures i spliced together. The trailhead is about 30-45 minutes from where i live.
http://www.ducimus.net/one.jpg
http://www.ducimus.net/two.jpg

Lovely panoramic views of smog, eh? lol

EDIT:

I should note, that even hiking, is no escape from the congestion here. In order to even get a place to park your damn car, you have to get up and be at the trailhead before first light, or you might not get a parking spot. It shouldn't be that way, but it is. Oh, and forget about seclusion either, you won't find much of that on the trail, at least not the local ones.

EDIT 2:

Here's the F'ing trailhead parking lot. Welcome to F'ing, disneyland, even in the great outdoors.
http://www.ducimus.net/trailhead.jpg

[tater]

Our trailheads with parking lots also get crowded sometimes. Course that's for the Sandias. Father afield from the city it's pretty empty.

[Growler]

I hear you, Duc, but consider this: Out here, we can have the smog, without any other redeeming qualities. It's all a case of greener on the other side of the fence.

Seclusion isn't so much an issue for me; I've already mostly given up on that, especially if the wife's work does what it looks like its about to. So if I can't have seclusion, I surehell don't want it here.

[tater]

I grew up in CT, so I think there is a false sense of seclusion in places due to forests, etc. In the West, you are either secluded or you aren't. I am not really, since I can see houses out the windows, but it's at ;east spread out from me.

[Betonov]

I agree in unrealistic principle, but then reality sets in. The US needs more workers. If you look at the current population, much of it is a big bubble of old people. Urban types will cram together, and there is still loads of room. The entire population of the Earth could fit in an area the size of Yugoslavia with a population density equal to Orange County, CA.

Room is not really a problem.

Ahhhhh Yugoslavia, the memories :DL

Would that be the pre 1991 Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (SFRJ) or post 1991 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (ZRJ), renamed Serbia after Milosević. Because SFRJ was big, seven billion people could live there but denser than Bangladesh :DL

[tater]

That was an old stat from the 80s I think. Regardless, I never checked it. It's no longer correct, assuming it was at the time, or I remember it right.

Looks like they'd all fit into Iran with the pop density of Orange County, CA.