Problem of Omniscient Destroyers in TMO

[CptLoonee]

I will make this simple, it seems like no matter shat I do, if any destroyer gets close to me, they IMMEDIATELY zero in on me and depth charge me to oblivion.

I work very hard to end around a convoy and setup in prime position for a standard or Dick O'Kane attack, in the middle of the night, with no moon, and drop to periscope depth, scope down, run silent at all stop, using passive sonar to listen for the convoy, and as soon as the convoy gets close, the destroyers turn their searchlights on and make a ziggzagging attack run on me forcing me to perform a down the throat shot, crash diving after, and usually losing any chance of attacking the convoy.

Am I doing something wrong here?

I cannot for the life of me think of any way I can reduce my profile.

I am running TMO with the RSRD campaign.

Please help :)

[Armistead]

If you're in a true 90 attack, often your broadside is right at the enemy. That's why I never use them trying to get in. The killer in TMO is calm water, so watch for that. I usually come head on to the front DD about 1000 yards to a flank and slowly turn into it always keeping a narrow profile running deep below the thermal on silent. RSRD convoys and TF are more spread out so easier to get between escorts and come up in the middle of the convoy instead of shooting outside of it near escorts.

[CptLoonee]

By the time I am at a 90 degree angle, I am submerged, so I don't see how they could spot me.

I am really perplexed on this one.

[Schwieger]

Hmm if you know they turned their searchlights on they probably saw your 'scope...

[CptLoonee]

Hmm if you know they turned their searchlights on they probably saw your 'scope...

There's no way. They are like 7-8 km out when they see on a moonless night. Moreover, if I go down below test depth and sit motionless, they still move right toward me and start dropping depth charges. I don't hear them pinging until the last second.

[Ducimus]

http://www.ducimus.net/sh415/ai.htm

[Armistead]

By the time I am at a 90 degree angle, I am submerged, so I don't see how they could spot me.

I am really perplexed on this one.

Sure Duc posted the AI he wrote on...Sonar is what spots you, broadside it has a bigger surface to bounce off of. As long as I keep a narrow profile to the nearest escort, I seldom get pinged.

They will cut searchlights on regardless of how they find you, they hear you deep, they cut them on.

Make sure you have your air radar down.

Use flank speeds when they make runs over you, if you're deep enough the charges should fall behind you. With the right tactics, even if they find you, if should be rare for them to hit you. I use flank with just a small turn, often if you make hard turns you'll run into a charge thrown by a Y gun.

I'll often come up and shoot at near merchants after a DD makes a run. I'll blow tanks to come up fast, just make sure you hit scope depth at about 150 ft or you may broach or even surface.

Changing depths also helps as they make their run. When you hear them speed up, I'll often change depth 100 ft up or down.

[CptLoonee]

There's a submarine with this convoy too. How to I attack that? I do not have it in my target recognition manual.

[I'm goin' down]

Run! Run FOR YOUR LIFE!

[Armistead]

There's a submarine with this convoy too. How to I attack that? I do not have it in my target recognition manual.

If you're playing TMO, just hit the ID button, you don't have to use the manual. Must be something Ducimas added, never seen a sub in a convoy, althought I've sink many single subs roaming the sea.

[Ducimus]

Probably a single sub that happened to be in parallel course with a convoy. I don't recall ever embedding a sub with a convoy.

[CptLoonee]

If you're playing TMO, just hit the ID button, you don't have to use the manual. Must be something Ducimas added, never seen a sub in a convoy, althought I've sink many single subs roaming the sea.

Wait...whaaa? lol all this time...I have been using the damn book...

[Rockin Robbins]

My research shows that Japanese DDs in TMO have Superman on board. He uses his x-ray vision very well. They will often depth charge you with deadly precision and never ping you. TMO has a deviant personality and it isn't very nice about it.

All I can say is that although for somebody new, TMO seems possessed of Satan, and it may be :o, Satan can be dealt with successfully. Just not 100% of the time......

[Thrair]

Been said many a time, TMO does not result in realistic AI. It results in tough AI.
In TMO, sometimes The Computer is a Cheating Bastard. And it will feed on your tears.


I've occasionally been rumbled by DDs when they had no logical right to know I was anywhere nearby. But in such cases, I jot it down to what would, in real life, be termed "****ing ****ty *** luck!".

Perhaps a tired midshipman tripped and had some heavy equipment land on exposed metal, perhaps a german POW was onboard tapping out morse code on a bunk with a spoon, etc.

I actually like how the DDs in TMO sometimes catch wind of me for no reason.

Why? Because it introduces an element of uncertainty. Even if I do everything right, they might still catch wind. To me, this keeps it interesting. :)

Your mileage may vary, ofc, so you might want to try out the easier AI mod Ducimus (read: god's roomate) cooked up.

[rein1705]

Me VS TMO Destroyers

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/picture.php?albumid=282&pictureid=3996

[Overkill]

This should help you out with the destroyers that see all...

Go into the SHIV directory under Data/Cfg and open the Sim file using Note Pad. Make sure that you open the Properties for the Sim file and set the permissions to allow for all users so the changes you make to the file will save.

Once there you'll change Hydrophone and Sonar settings to look like this:

[Hydrophone]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.15 ;(0..1)
Height factor=0 ;[m]
Waves factor=0.5 ;1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=12 ;[kt]
Noise factor=1.0 ;0.35 ;0.25 ;[>=0]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=3.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 3 equals signal reduction to 33%

[Sonar]
Detection time=5 ;[s]
Sensitivity=0.05 ;(0..1)
Waves factor=1.0 ;[>=0]
Speed factor=15 ;[kt]
Enemy surface factor=200 ;[m2]
Lose time=15 ;[s]
Thermal Layer Signal Attenuation=5.0 ;[>0], 1 means no signal reduction, 5 equals signal reduction to 20%

[Rockin Robbins]

This should help you out with the destroyers that see all...
BOOOOOOOOOOO! http://i196.photobucket.com/albums/aa293/RockinRobbins13/smileys/lonely.gif

Yeah, make the ultimate game of warfare into playing Frisbee with yourself. You can play submarines, but you aren't allowed to have any explosives in the torpedoes, the opposition will use leaky rubber rafts with no weapons of any kind. And one more thing. Water isn't allowed. Somebody might drown.

This ain't supposed to be a girlie game! Bring on the real Japanese Navy! It's war and we're up to the challenge. Or perhaps not. Why not just decide the conflict over a nice game of cooperative Frisbee.:D

[Ducimus]

The subject of the AI in TMO (in general) is one of those things that has gone off and assumed a life of its own. No matter what i do with it, somebody will be upset with me. However, my spidey sense tells me, most people are fine with it, and would be disappointed if it was anything else instead of what it currently is. So at this point, I don't dare touch it anymore then I already have.

Besides, as cited in the PDF that hardly anyone reads, TMO defines realism by player behavior. Is the player having the same worries and fears as a real sub captain would? One thing to remember is these sims are environment's that are repetitious and hard fixed to work within measured parameters. Once you know what those boundries are, the game will become dull.

Evading the AI is like threading a needle. How hard it is depends on how small the eye of the needle is. All the AI settings in TMO do, is make the eye of the needle smaller, so it is much harder to thread. With practice, even this added challenge will become dull and mundane.

EDIT:
And for the record, when I tuned the AI, i specifically tuned it to not be what i refer to as "Atlantic Hard". In some ways i almost wish i was modding for the ATO, as i could have had free license to go full tilt instead of holding back. :haha:

[Armistead]

I think your goal of TMO should be to put tonnage scores in line with the real war. Course, I run RSRD, which changes things.

I did change the crew ratings over RSRD as you told me and it helped a lot. The difference between rating 2's and 4's makes a huge difference. The added gun range also helped a lot.

It appears your version of MAD works over RSRD. Late war planes dump charges, but seems you let one charge much deeper. I've had my ship destroyed at 200 ft. Before, I might get mild damage at 150 ft.

I did add several sub hunter elite groups, helps some.

The problem is as you stated, once you learn the AI, you can find ways to beat it and things can get dull. The changes of TMO 2.1 were good changes.

Wish lurker was around to update RSRD, but slowly I'm figuring out how to do it correctly.

[Overkill]

There's no "right" or "wrong" here.
If you find the AI too hard you can make these minor adjustments. If you like it were it is then ya just leave it be. Everybody's happy (yeah, like that's ever going to happen in the history of mankind :doh:).

[I'm goin' down]

There's no "right" or "wrong" here.

WOW. Thanks for letting us know. None of knew that. We will all sleep better tonight.

Personally, I like 'em harder than hell. It force me to think, plus I get to kick the dog if they get me. And who cannot but love spending an hour having your crew repair damage only to be reamed when the crafty (no pun intended) SOBs take you out just when your boat is ready to refloat.

[Hylander_1314]

If the AI are too tough, get better at your tactics. The AI in TMO 2.1 is great! Very challenging. I have to time things just right, so that if I'm detected, I can hide under convoy or task force ships. Wait for the right moment, have the fish ready to fire when at PD, open the tubes as soon as we are shallow enough, duck out from under the vessel I'm using as a screen, fire the bow and stern tubes as quickly as possible, duck back under the ship(s), and take her deep. Very deep. I run my Balao at 600+ feet deep. More speed is needed to keep the boat trim, but I can usually avoid the DCs the DDs and DEs drop.

Once had my boat down over 700 ft, and the boat sounded like it was going to crush any minute.

[rein1705]

The chances of being killed and the worry, the waiting caused by this and the shear joy of actualy sneeking by them and scoreing makes TMO's AI worth its salt to me.

[TorpX]

The subject of the AI in TMO (in general) is one of those things that has gone off and assumed a life of its own. No matter what i do with it, somebody will be upset with me.

So true.

I've noticed the posts roughly fall into two catagories:


Ducimus:

The Japanese escorts are much too weak and wimpy, and I can easily penetrate their pathetic screens and sink their aircraft carriers 99.9% of the time. After I have sunk everything else, I pick off 2 battleships from 8,999 yards, with 1 torpedo, just because I can. You should make all IJN units "Elite", and add at least 500 well equipt hunter-killer groups (using the most advanced radar and sonar sets), with double loads of depth charges, so that they might offer me a slight challange. Otherwise, I will sink the entire Imperial Japanese Navy in six weeks and there will be nothing left for anyone else to shoot at.

- Capt. I. Sinkalot




------------------------- or ----------------------------



Ducimus:

i think your TMO is waaaaaaaaay too hard. Whenever i play the TMO stuff i get hammered big time. All day long the red planes fly around looking for me, and gee whiz, if one sees me, he tells all the others! its really unfair. :( Even when i'm lucky enough to get near the big ships, all the little ones get mad and start dropping all sorts of loud and scary, explodey things on me. i am beginning to think, they can like hear me or something. Pleeeease make them stop! Admiral Ubisort says i'll be relieved if i don't sink something soon.

- Commander (junior grade) Swab D. Dex



I have full confidence Ducimus will sort it all out. After all thats why he get paid the big bucks. :haha:

[I'm goin' down]

Okay, enought with the bulls**t. The fact of the matter is that Ducimus is out to **** us. If you think the dds are too hard, you're screwed. Likewise, if you think they are too easy.

You see, the Duc (as in the "Duck" of Death [refering to Little Bill in the Unforgiven]) is the pure, consumate evil computer genius, and this is his playground. He constructs this fantastic mod, and makes it all perfect just like the witch's house in Hansel and Gretel. We, being idiots, gobble it up of course, only to find out too late that he has prepared a wonderful Sunday dinner. What we are now realizing is that he planned the meal far, far in advance and that our asses are the main course. And who delivers that delightful message? dds designed, modded and released by none other than the Duc of Death.*

Kindly address replies to the "Delusional Patients" ward at the Happy Dale Sanatarium (where for obvious reasons TMO is banned by Nurse Ratchet who has been promoted to the position of Patients' Rights Advocate.)

*Message written at 4:07 a.m. on 4/8/2011 while the SS Barbarinna lies wounded on the ocean seabed, with its crew fighting for their lives and fighting what will likely be another losing batte to save their boat, after enduring an ongoing 4 hour hammering by dds designed, released and commisioned for sea duty by none other than the one and only Duc of Death himself.:hmmm:

[Sandman_28054]

I'm not using RSRD, but I am using TMO 2.

As it is stated, some like it easy, and some like it hard.

I don't like to tweek the settings because it makes me try to develop tactics to defeat them.

I always save with first contact with a convoy or Task Force.

This way, if I set up for an attack and I'm discovered, if they depth charge me to oblivion, I can load the save and try again.

I started a new career three days ago, Lt. Commander Sam Gamewell. I was ordered to patrol within 108 miles of Convoy College for 4 days.

Well I know where the attack on Manila is going to tke place and from what direction.

I placed myself right in front of the lead destroyer.

Sure enough, I was picked up and three DD's came straight for me.

I found out that when they are within 1500-1000 yards of me, I can "crash dive" and turn either 20 degrees to port or starboard until the DD's pass, get back on course and order "Periscope Depth" and come up usually with one or two of the DD's directly behind me. If I time it just right, I can sink them leaving just one more between me and the convoy.

Then its just a matter or picking them apart.

This don't always work, but sometimes it does.

[Overkill]

No good deed...

[Rockin Robbins]

Oh, no!!!! Overkill has Compulsive Tweaking Disorder (CTD). I know one other person who has this and it leads to terminal insanity!:D CTD kills!

By the way, in Ducimus' FAQ that nobody reads he clearly says that you are to tweak to your liking, just don't complain to him if you don't like the results. Many times in the FAQ he even tells you how to change his settings.

Still, the spirit of TMO is savagery. If you kill the spirit then what reason is there to run TMO at all? Might as well load up Beery's last version of RFB where you could sit at periscope depth shooting torpedoes, take multiple hits from depth charges and never get sunk.

Basically, what the difference is is that RFB strives for realism of result, not matter how unrealistic that makes player behavior and TMO seeks realistic player behavior, not matter how unrealistic that makes the rest of the game. I don't see how it's possible to achieve both.

But the fact is that one of five submariners were killed in the war. That's a sobering statistic the made the participants very afraid. In order to have a realistic simulation you must introduce the very real possibility that you might not survive "routine" operations.

[Wilcke]

Look at it this way, it was and is very difficult to capture what Ducimus noted the "unknown factors' and " the fog of war" in this sim. We have all read the books, seen the videos and know everything there is to know about the IJN, the bad torpedoes, we get to ignore Admiral Lockwood's orders and admonishments. So TMO makes up for all that by adding back that 'fear', so you are literally on the razors edge every time you decide to make an attack.

Its good stuff!

[Ducimus]

So true.

I've noticed the posts roughly fall into two catagories:


Ducimus:

The Japanese escorts are much too weak and wimpy, and I can easily penetrate their pathetic screens and sink their aircraft carriers 99.9% of the time. After I have sunk everything else, I pick off 2 battleships from 8,999 yards, with 1 torpedo, just because I can. You should make all IJN units "Elite", and add at least 500 well equipt hunter-killer groups (using the most advanced radar and sonar sets), with double loads of depth charges, so that they might offer me a slight challange. Otherwise, I will sink the entire Imperial Japanese Navy in six weeks and there will be nothing left for anyone else to shoot at.

- Capt. I. Sinkalot




------------------------- or ----------------------------



Ducimus:

i think your TMO is waaaaaaaaay too hard. Whenever i play the TMO stuff i get hammered big time. All day long the red planes fly around looking for me, and gee whiz, if one sees me, he tells all the others! its really unfair. :( Even when i'm lucky enough to get near the big ships, all the little ones get mad and start dropping all sorts of loud and scary, explodey things on me. i am beginning to think, they can like hear me or something. Pleeeease make them stop! Admiral Ubisort says i'll be relieved if i don't sink something soon.

- Commander (junior grade) Swab D. Dex



:haha: :har::rotfl2:

So , so , so true! That's priceless!

[Dogfish40]

:haha:Okay, enought with the bulls**t. The fact of the matter is that Ducimus is out to **** us. If you think the dds are too hard, you're screwed. Likewise, if you think they are too easy.

*Message written at 4:07 a.m. on 4/8/2011 while the SS Barbarinna lies wounded on the ocean seabed, with its crew fighting for their lives and fighting what will likely be another losing batte to save their boat, after enduring an ongoing 4 hour hammering by dds designed, released and commisioned for sea duty by none other than the one and only Duc of Death himself.:hmmm:

I'm goin Down, Referring to your entire statment, all I can say is:har::har::har::haha::haha::har: I think YOU should write some sub history, that'd be a blast!
Yours truly, getting up off the floor
D40:88)

[WernherVonTrapp]

See, now I don't feel that TMO is too hard, or too easy. I may be one of a very few that feels that it's just right. Right now anyway. Apart from a few close calls early-on, I've had nothing but satisfaction playing it. Any tweaks that I need are done in the GamePlay Options menu. Other than that, I tweaked the "next" and "previous" camera settings according to the guidelines in the accompanying .pdf file.
When I load up somebody else's mod, I feel that they're the real driver and, apart from some suggestions in the direction we're traveling, I'm just along for the ride.

[Armistead]

The fact is, some aspect are too hard, some too easy, I guess that's what they call balance. I think Duc keeps adjusting to find more balance, unless they let him have at hardcode not much more he can do. Anyone that plays long enough can still sink 100K tons each patrol playing TMO using 100% realism. The problem I've found, if I adjust one value to make something easier or harder, it may change another aspect of gameplay. To keep adjusting values and tryin over and over until you find that perfection you seek would drive a sane person mad, Duc is a prime example.

I hate the damage control and zones of the game, knowing not much further can be done. Subs were fragile. I sometimes wonder if we changed the splash zones of the depth charges to a smaller radius, why increasing the damage zones of the sub would give more balance?

[I'm goin' down]

I don't like to tweek the settings because it makes me try to develop tactics to defeat them.

I always save with first contact with a convoy or Task Force.

This way, if I set up for an attack and I'm discovered, if they depth charge me to oblivion, I can load the save and try again.

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.:nope:

[Overkill]

I guess if you wanted it to be more "realistic" every time you're sunk you could always trap yourself in the shower and then flush your head a couple'a times in the toilet until you pass out.

[WernherVonTrapp]

I just have the wife walk in and throw a cup of water in my face. She seems to enjoy it and, well, it adds to the immersion effect.:har:

[Thrair]

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.:nope:

Hey hey hey. No need to be rude to the guy. It's actually a decent way for newer players to practice, try new methods, see how far you can push things, etc. Think of it as an impromptu scenario.

I used to do it all the time when I was learning the game (and again with I began using TMO). And while I'm not a great player, I no longer embarrass myself. Usually. So these practice runs helped.

[I'm goin' down]

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.:nope:

Hey hey hey. No need to be rude to the guy. It's actually a decent way for newer players to practice, try new methods, see how far you can push things, etc. Think of it as an impromptu scenario.

I used to do it all the time when I was learning the game (and again with I began using TMO). And while I'm not a great player, I no longer embarrass myself. Usually. So these practice runs helped.

Hey, hey, hey. NOT! Your point is extremely well taken except for one fact. The captain has been a member since March, 2008.

Aside from the fact that I was kidding, which was apparently lost on you, I have no problem or issue with practicing. I do cheat in one instance. When I run into an island because I have not zoomed the Nav Map or am dancing to Radio Hawaii with my crew, I apologize to Le Duc for my poor manners and the faux pas' and restart from my last save.

[Armistead]

Don't feel bad IGD. After my last patrol, I spent 3 hours evading my elite set escorts, banging away at me with 15 mph winds. After escaping, I was underwater at 180 ft when bam..Thought it was a mine, but it was one of Duc's MAD planes. I had 80% damage. I about got to base, Manus, when it was switched to Subic, so turn around and head back through the San Bern. I plotted and ran into a small island in a narrow strait and died anyway.

I figured it was time to quit for the night.

[Thrair]

My apologies man. It can be hard to convey emotion and tone through text, which can result in miss-communications.

Further, I play WoW..... trust me. Go on those forums some time. You are quickly ingrained with a thorough sense of cynicism and mistrust, and begin to see rudeness and bad attitude even where it might not exist.

So, again, my apologies for jumpin to conclusions.


As a side note, I too hate those tiny little islands in the middle of sod-all that don't show up on the maps unless you comb the map over with the highest zoom and the magnifying class up your wazoo.

[Armistead]

Oh, least IGD doesn't go around correcting everyones spelling...:D

[I'm goin' down]

Activate OM/OMEGU/KIUB. You will be an ocean away from the Duc of Death. Plus, if you are like my crew, you will never see any targets other than 330 ton steamers. Why? Because the Brits are all over the sky. Plus, the torpedeos settngs and crew ranks are all in German and there is no Position Keeper, so being confused is par for the course. Just come up for air every once in awhile and you will never miss the dinner bell. (Ahem! (Clearing voice and starts singing) "It's a long way to Tipperaree."

What? Yes! Of course I took all of my medication! Do you think I am a crazy person who does not take his meds?! (Now singing Lily Marlene.)

[I'm goin' down]

Oh, least IGD doesn't go around correcting everyones spelling...:D

You are one gutsy SOB. If IGD sees it, I can guarente he won't be pleased.:hmmm:

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, least IGD doesn't go around correcting everyones spelling...:D
HEY! I resemble that remark!




Whether it was aimed at me or not! :oops:

[torpedobait]

If you're playing TMO, just hit the ID button, you don't have to use the manual. Must be something Ducimas added, never seen a sub in a convoy, althought I've sink many single subs roaming the sea.

Armistead, what is the "ID Button"? I've gone through all the TMO documentation and cannot find any reference to an "ID Button". Thanks.

[WernherVonTrapp]

Armistead, what is the "ID Button"? I've gone through all the TMO documentation and cannot find any reference to an "ID Button". Thanks.I think he's referring to one of the tabs on the bottom, possibly when you're in the PS/TBT view.

[Armistead]

I think he's referring to one of the tabs on the bottom, possibly when you're in the PS/TBT view.

Yep, one of the tabs when you're at the scope or TBT, think it has a ? mark. One of those items you tap so much you no longer pay attention to what it looks like.

[I'm goin' down]

To be more precise, without correcting Armistead's spelling:hmmm:, the question mark symbol appears on the TMO user's HUD (Head's Up Display) buttons. It is the button that contains a "question mark" symbol. But wait, there's more. To activate this particular HUD button, one must lock the view on their chosen, potential target with the TBT or Periscope. This is accomplished using the "L" key when the potential target is in the middle of the periscope or TBT view. Once locked on the chosen target, if one taps the HUD button "question mark" button, the identity of the target will be displayed. Then you can complete the set up for manual targeting. Tapping the HUD button when the scope/TBT is not locked on the target will not yield results.

My three poodles have advised me that my explanation is brilliant.

[Armistead]

I feign stupidity thus encouraging others to explain the details..

[Thrair]

I feign stupidity thus encouraging others to explain the details..

Only amateurs have to fake it, noob.



:P

[I'm goin' down]

testing those wings (or is it your torpedoes), are you?:D Good for you.

p.s. when talking about dds in TMO, or TF/convoy locations, or attack tactics, Armistead is the MAN! Who else besides lurker (creator of RSRDC) has attacked Yamato's task force that hit Hawaii in the Bungo Straights when it returned to Japan? That is the real reason why the US defeated the Jap invasion force at Midway, even though the brass won't admit it and have rewritten history, claiming the code breakers, naval pilots, the Yorktown and Lexington, and Spruance were hereos to boost morale on the home front. Armistead's boat primed Doolittle's raid by months. Now you know the truth. Its the stuff of legends.

[torpedobait]

To be more precise, without correcting Armistead's spelling:hmmm:, the question mark symbol appears on the TMO user's HUD (Head's Up Display) buttons. It is the button that contains a "question mark" symbol. But wait, there's more. To activate this particular HUD button, one must lock the view on their chosen, potential target with the TBT or Periscope. This is accomplished using the "L" key when the potential target is in the middle of the periscope or TBT view. Once locked on the chosen target, if one taps the HUD button "question mark" button, the identity of the target will be displayed. Then you can complete the set up for manual targeting. Tapping the HUD button when the scope/TBT is not locked on the target will not yield results.

My three poodles have advised me that my explanation is brilliant.

Thank you, Gentlemen! My 2 Shi Tzus and 1 Lhasa concur with your 3 poodles! :haha: :salute:

[Sandman_28054]

Yep. I rmember that after Midway, Yamamoto sent a message to Comsubpac using the Morse Code mod, said he was only practicing, wanted another chance, and requested we give him four carriers and a cruiser.:nope:

Wow!

I wasn't expecting my comment to upset so many.

I've been playing SH3 since a year after it came out, and every once in a while I still get caught and sunk.

I played SH4 for a long time until I upgraded to SH4 Gold.

You mean to tell me that not one of the Captians here after all this time playing don't make a mistake and get sunk?

I guess its just me then.

Hum...

[I'm goin' down]

If you do not go into harm's way, you are not testing your skills or the limits of the mod. Practicing by replaying a mission is a way to expedite the process. I''ve reached the point with the supermods that I live with the results (or should I say, live and die with the results.)

[Armistead]

testing those wings (or is it your torpedoes), are you?:D Good for you.

p.s. when talking about dds in TMO, or TF/convoy locations, or attack tactics, Armistead is the MAN! Who else besides lurker (creator of RSRDC) has attacked Yamato's task force that hit Hawaii in the Bungo Straights when it returned to Japan? That is the real reason why the US defeated the Jap invasion force at Midway, even though the brass won't admit it and have rewritten history, claiming the code breakers, naval pilots, the Yorktown and Lexington, and Spruance were hereos to boost morale on the home front. Armistead's boat primed Doolittle's raid by months. Now you know the truth. Its the stuff of legends.


Aw, you know I don't let these non-rated numbnuts bother me. Give him a wire brush, the aft head needs scrubbing...:03:

Good for him, I tire of all the sensitivity that plagues this forum.

[Armistead]

Wow!

I wasn't expecting my comment to upset so many.

I've been playing SH3 since a year after it came out, and every once in a while I still get caught and sunk.

I played SH4 for a long time until I upgraded to SH4 Gold.

You mean to tell me that not one of the Captians here after all this time playing don't make a mistake and get sunk?

I guess its just me then.

Hum...

I have my mail sent to the ocean floor....Remember, lot's of lying among sailors, I never use saves either...:O:

[rein1705]

im always starting new careers... for i get sunk more often than not when escorts are involved but i have fun and get better all the time. i use saves in my patrols but if im sunk i start a new boat.

[Thrair]

My problem is when I'm playing very late at night and start pulling stupid left and right, getting myself sunk. Frustrated and tried, I'll reload as many as 3 times until I get a "perfect" result. Then I wake up the next day, feel cheap, and delete the whole save-line to make amends.

I've gotten better about that, tho. Haven't done it in a long while.




I will be completely unapologetic about a reload if a glitch is involved, however.
As an example, last night I lost a Sargo because I realized too late that the AI wasn't accepting the silent running command. They'd recognize the order, but wouldn't actually start it. Which predictably annoyed the escorts of the tank force I was engaging, as they wish they could ignore orders, too.

[I'm goin' down]

Your solution is simple. If you don't tell anyone, no one will know.:D (I do not think they will write about it in the history of the world, and, as someone once wisely told me, if its not included, it isn't important.)

[Armistead]

I've yet to play an entire career without using a save. I've made it a few times to early 45, but do something stupid, usually in Formosa. I'll save after a battle. I often get the CO2 bug from alt tabbing out. Course no skipper would do 40 patrols over 5 years....

I have increased crew ratings across the board, 90% of my escorts are rated 4 for elite. I've also added many sub killer groups using the elite generic escort with 8 Y guns, along with Matsu's and Type AB's. I've placed them in many straits and seems they pop up everytime a convoy is near.

Fact is, anyone can defeat the AI if you play smart and attack at the right time. One day I'll learn not to attack convoys in 150ft of calm water with 8 Type AB's around. When waters are rough, you can have your way in this game.

[rein1705]

lol i only seem to get rough seas when im underweigh to my zone or stuck with lifeguard duty in an S-boat... :haha:

[I'm goin' down]

If you're underweigh you might not ever get there; however, if you are underway, you have a chance.

(It is time for me to quit this thread because it is making me crazier than I already am.)

[rein1705]

Bad spelling... i has it.:cry:
Spellcheck refuses to work in anything but firefox as a browser for my computer. That's puzzled me for some time now.
At least you gathered what i "Meant" to say.

[Armistead]

As long as it makes cents in a sentence, who cares...:D

[Armistead]

I lost...:D

I need to do a test dive and see how deep these things go with TMO. I started a career in 44 with one and jumped a large convoy with 4 Type AB's. I went to 340 ft fearing 350 might be the death point. Seems the big arse sub turns slow. Anyway, cams off, I couldn't see what happened. Thanks to Ducs now dark TMO water I can't watch them in the scope.

I was rather shocked, rough water sitting at radar depth, these elite set escorts came rushing right to me from 6000 yards. I had APR, they had no radar.

I guess these are considered thin skinned boats in the game?

[rein1705]

where you using TMO's Narwhale or the Narwhale mod Narwhale? ive been looking for a Patch :D

[Armistead]

TMO's, don't think the other has been patched.

[WH4K]

I must be doing it wrong.

I generally have no problem staying clear of the escorts, playing with TMO 2.1.

But then, I don't get anywhere near them. I use the formerly-acknowledged tactics of keeping the thin end of the boat toward them, and setting up attacks so that they won't run right over me.

Generally, yeah, if they run right over you, you're toast. Sometimes out in the deep water you can get away from them.

Occasionally I get really ornery, and I'll sink the escorts first, then chase down and sink every ship in a convoy one by one, or until I run out of torpedoes, whichever comes first.

But I'm also a nasty cheater who uses map contact updates to maintain situational awareness, and to avoid going insane from trying to plot everything manually with inadequate tools.

[Ducimus]

TMO's, don't think the other has been patched.

It has. I'm just not the one who's releasing it is all. Haven't heard from either party who had an interest in having it patched since i gave them the updated files.

[rein1705]

WH4K, thats what i do. i avoid escourts wherever possible though if i have to i'll use every trick at my disposal to take care of ... at least one lol

Ducimus, think it'd be ok if i contacted the partys that were going to patch the Narwhale? who would i need to PM?