Coffee Cups in Hell

[Gerald]

The Republican Mormons Mitt Romney and Jon Huntsman may run for president, braving more questions about whether they wear the sacred undergarment and more resistance from evangelicals who consider Mormonism an affront to Christianity.

TLC just renewed its hit “Sister Wives,” and HBO’s popular “Big Love” just had its big finale.

On Thursday, “The Book of Mormon,” by Trey Parker and Matt Stone, the scatological scamps who created “South Park,” and Robert Lopez, who co-created “Avenue Q,” opened on Broadway in a confetti burst of profanity, blasphemy, hilarity and rapturous reviews. Stone called the musical “an atheist love letter to religion.”

Aside from impersonating Jennifer Lopez and Gwyneth Paltrow at the 2000 Oscars, Stone and Parker are known for mercilessly mocking religion, celebrity, phonies and Snooki in their cartoon world with the four potty-mouthed fourth-grade boys from Colorado.

They pushed the limits at Comedy Central when they put the Prophet Muhammad in a bear suit. But as Terry Teachout wrote in The Wall Street Journal: “Making fun of Mormons in front of a Broadway crowd is like shooting trout in a demitasse cup. ... If the title of this show were ‘The Quran,’ it wouldn’t have opened.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/opinion/27dowd.html?src=me&ref=general

Note: March 26, 2011

[tater]

TBut as Terry Teachout wrote in The Wall Street Journal: “Making fun of Mormons in front of a Broadway crowd is like shooting trout in a demitasse cup. ... If the title of this show were ‘The Quran,’ it wouldn’t have opened.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/27/opinion/27dowd.html?src=me&ref=general


So true.

BTW, how many calls for death to Parker and Stone have erupted from the incensed Mormon community? Too many to count?

[Gerald]

So true.

BTW, how many calls for death to Parker and Stone have erupted from the incensed Mormon community? Too many to count? :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

None that I've heard, but though I live in the heart of Mormonville I lead a fairly uninformed life.

On the other hand the local improv group 'Laughing Stock' recently had a long-running show called "Transmorfers: Mormon Meets The Eye", and got no complaints at all.

[Gargamel]

I'm pretty neutral to letting religions do their thing, as they are great community outreach programs and places for people to find the solace and comfort they require.

But the more flak the mormons can take, the happier I am :yeah:. My wife was excommunicated from the mormon church just because we shared a house. The council of elders (or whatever) called her a whore to her face.

So the mormons can just stick it.

A whole religion based on some tablets a crazy dude claimed he found in the woods, and only he could read? And then all that based on top of some crap a burning plant told some old guy? :shifty:

Sorry, no trolling intended here. Just my personal opinion based on personal experiences.

[tater]

None that I've heard, but though I live in the heart of Mormonville I lead a fairly uninformed life.

On the other hand the local improv group 'Laughing Stock' recently had a long-running show called "Transmorfers: Mormon Meets The Eye", and got no complaints at all.

That's really odd, because I've been told here at SS (many times) that Islam is no different than any other religion in terms of violence, repression, etc. So there must be the same number of protests, death threats, actual deaths, etc that we'd see in any country where the % of Muslims is the same as the Utah % of Mormons.

In fact, this is an excellent test case. Apparently ~60% of Utah residents are Mormons. The % is similar for Brunei, Chad, Lebanon, Malaysia. Slightly lower than Sudan.

So we can compare how large public "attacks" on Islam go over in some of those countries. My suggestion would be to start by having some of the usual apologists for Islam on the boards to head to, say Lebanon, then act as street performers making fun of Muhammad as street entertainers (in the appropriate language so they get the jokes). They should be perfectly safe.

[Torplexed]

A whole religion based on some tablets a crazy dude claimed he found in the woods, and only he could read? And then all that based on top of some crap a burning plant told some old guy? :shifty:

Sorry, no trolling intended here. Just my personal opinion based on personal experiences.

Quite a feat of navigation was performed in ancient times according to the Book of Mormon. That a group left Jerusalem after it's fall to Babylon, crossed the Arabian Peninsula and sailed from there to North America without a compass or map. But I guess it's no more fanciful than the Ark and the Great Flood which many believe in.

[Gargamel]

Quite a feat of navigation was performed in ancient times according to the Book of Mormon. That a group left Jerusalem after it's fall to Babylon, crossed the Arabian Peninsula and sailed from there to North America without a compass or map. But I guess it's no more fanciful than the Ark and the Great Flood which many believe in.

The ark/noah can be attributed to an oral history passed down over generations, and then slowly tailored to fit the story tellers needs. I think it arose from when the Bosphorus broke open and connected the then tiny Black Sea to the Med. The fact that most major religions have some sort of flood story gives credence to something happening.

But when the stories are chock full of details that make no sense.... :nope:

[tater]

Quite a feat of navigation was performed in ancient times according to the Book of Mormon. That a group left Jerusalem after it's fall to Babylon, crossed the Arabian Peninsula and sailed from there to North America without a compass or map. But I guess it's no more fanciful than the Ark and the Great Flood which many believe in.

In another thread once I think I calculated that for 40 days/nights of rain to deposit a boat high up the mountain they claim it landed on it needed to rain over 160 inches per hour. At a slightly lower elevation, say 12,000 feet, it's only 150 inches per hour. Heck, let's make it 6k feet, then only 75 inches per hour! Course much of the world (and population) is therefor not bumped off. Of course the highest rainfall every recorded was very similar to that value... but it was 71 inches over 24 hours. Highest ever recorded in 1 minute was 1.5 inches (90 inches per hour). Of course every other minute was less than that, and the highest total in an hour is only ~12 inches.

While a flood (a tsunami, or something like one in effect) would be truly devastating, it makes the entire point of "the flood" sort of moot, because instead of smiting the wicked, it simply smites people below a certain altitude, lol.

[Tribesman]

That's really odd, because I've been told here at SS (many times) that Islam is no different than any other religion in terms of violence, repression, etc. So there must be the same number of protests, death threats, actual deaths, etc that we'd see in any country where the % of Muslims is the same as the Utah % of Mormons.


Hey Dorothy how is that strawman coming along?:rotfl2:

My suggestion would be to start by having some of the usual apologists for Islam on the boards to head to, say Lebanon, then act as street performers making fun of Muhammad as street entertainers
My suggestion is that you go to Lebanon and do a comedy routine about Jesus...oh sorry thats not allowed, I guess you struck out there, nice try though.
Why not use Saudi as an example tater, that way it won't backfire on you

[tater]

Hey Dorothy how is that strawman coming along?:rotfl2:


My suggestion is that you go to Lebanon and do a comedy routine about Jesus...oh sorry thats not allowed, I guess you struck out there, nice try though.
Why not use Saudi as an example tater, that way it won't backfire on you

I picked countries that had a population that had a muslim % equal to the mormon % of Utah (as I said). Picking a more devout country would simply insure your prosecution (or worse) more rapidly.

It;s already illegal for non-muslims to even visit parts of saudi, for example. People are murdered (legally) for being gay in Iran.

What Muslim country would you be safe to walk the street in if everyone knew you were putting on a show about Muhammad the Pedo (a comedy)?

Think Stone or Parker would be afraid to visit Utah?

[Tribesman]

I picked countries that had a population that had a muslim % equal to the mormon % of Utah (as I said). Picking a more devout country would simply insure your prosecution (or worse) more rapidly.


Well you should have chosen one which doesn't have certain religious "protections" or chosen a religion which the state doesn't recognise:up:

People are murdered (legally) for being gay in Iran.


Thats the place with all the government funded ladyboys isn't it.
Can you remind me again what century it was when your supreme court got rid of your anti gay laws

Think Stone or Parker would be afraid to visit Utah?
No, the US government kicked the fight out of the Mormons over a century ago;)

[tater]

Thats the place with all the government funded ladyboys isn't it.
Can you remind me again what century it was when your supreme court got rid of your anti gay laws

Gays were executed in the US by the government? Do tell.

[Tribesman]

Gays were executed in the US by the government? Do tell.
You at it again tater, making up words.:yeah:
It was state laws, you know states that had things like executions castration flogging......
But how about some of your own actual words instead of making up words, it wasn't long ago you said it was perfectly acceptable to have sex with 2 year olds, it last time you went off on a mohammed is a pedo rant wasn't it.:hmmm:
Did you eever decide how much older they had to be before a bloke who is claimed to be a prophet can have sex with them?

[tater]

I'm well aware of "blue laws" in the US. Regardless, gays ARE executed, today, right now, in Iran under the color of law, AND religious sanction (the shia have a clergy, after all, and it runs the state).

Cite a single US law that has execution as a penalty for "unnatural acts," "sodomy," etc. Cite one that used to, just so you can at least say it used to happen. Again, in my post I said gays were executed in muslim countries, you then suggested that the US had anti-gay laws. That might be true, but killing people is worse than any other sanction possible. So sodomy being illegal back in the day is not at all the same as stringing up teenagers for having sex. I can post the pictures if you like, or you can simply google it.

In some areas of the US, there were extralegal killings of course, but this was, duh, against the law (even if winked at in the south not all that long ago). OTOH, if you want to go into the 50s and 60s for trouble in the US, slavery was legal in the muslim world at that time.

[Sailor Steve]

That's really odd, because I've been told here at SS (many times) that Islam is no different than any other religion in terms of violence, repression, etc. So there must be the same number of protests, death threats, actual deaths, etc that we'd see in any country where the % of Muslims is the same as the Utah % of Mormons.
Sorry, I missed the sarcasm in your first post. No, we don't have any burning effigies or people demanding their heads on pikes. There might be a couple of letters to the local paper complaining, but that's about it. In fact I was unaware of this play until Vendor linked the article.

In fact, this is an excellent test case. Apparently ~60% of Utah residents are Mormons. The % is similar for Brunei, Chad, Lebanon, Malaysia. Slightly lower than Sudan.
True, but it's just the opposite in the hub. Salt Lake City itself is only about 30% LDS, mainly due to the Mormons having the "Old Money" and moving out of downtown when the first suburbs began springing up in the 1920s. Anti-Mormon protesters are a fairly regular sight downtown, in the vicinity of the main Temple. In spite of the ocassional heated exchange I've never heard of a fistfight breaking out, let alone real violence.

[Sailor Steve]

In another thread once I think I calculated that for 40 days/nights of rain to deposit a boat high up the mountain they claim it landed on it needed to rain over 160 inches per hour.
Noah: "How you gonna do it?"
God: "I'm gonna make it rain 4,000 days and drown 'em right out!"
Noah: "Listen, do this: Make it rain 40 days and 40 nights and wait for the sewers to back up!"
God: "Riiiight!"

One of the best skits ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk

[Sailor Steve]

Well you should have chosen one which doesn't have certain religious "protections" or chosen a religion which the state doesn't recognise:up:
All your "strawman" accusations aside, is it true? Will Muslim-run countries will kill you if you criticize Muhammed or Islam?

[Gargamel]

Noah: "How you gonna do it?"
God: "I'm gonna make it rain 4,000 days and drown 'em right out!"
Noah: "Listen, do this: Make it rain 40 days and 40 nights and wait for the sewers to back up!"
God: "Riiiight!"

One of the best skits ever.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk

VOOOBA VOOOBA VOOOBA VOOOBA DING!

:rotfl2:

One of the best standup bits ever....

[Tribesman]

All your "strawman" accusations aside, is it true? Will Muslim-run countries will kill you if you criticize Muhammed or Islam?
Specifics, tater did generalisations again and funnily enough chose a specific which didn't fit.
Take the whole pile of countries which can in one way or another be called muslim or muslim run and you end up with Pakisatan Afghanistan Saudi Yemen and Iran which include death as the maximum penalty available.
Of note is the fact that 3 of those 5 have a habit of applying such laws to muslims who simply happen to be the wrong flavour for the rulers.

[AngusJS]

Quite a feat of navigation was performed in ancient times according to the Book of Mormon. That a group left Jerusalem after it's fall to Babylon, crossed the Arabian Peninsula and sailed from there to North America without a compass or map. But I guess it's no more fanciful than the Ark and the Great Flood which many believe in.It's a shame that genetics have proven that Native Americans are not Semetic, but are were originally from Asia.

But did that fact change Mormon belief? Nope.

Mormonism is proof that you can get people to believe absolutely anything (especially when you indoctrinate them when they're kids).

The % is similar for Brunei, Chad, Lebanon, Malaysia. Slightly lower than Sudan.Jeez, I didn't know that Utah had a third-world economy or education system.

[Penguin]

In another thread once I think I calculated that for 40 days/nights of rain to deposit a boat high up the mountain they claim it landed on it needed to rain over 160 inches per hour. At a slightly lower elevation, say 12,000 feet, it's only 150 inches per hour. Heck, let's make it 6k feet, then only 75 inches per hour! Course much of the world (and population) is therefor not bumped off. Of course the highest rainfall every recorded was very similar to that value... but it was 71 inches over 24 hours. Highest ever recorded in 1 minute was 1.5 inches (90 inches per hour). Of course every other minute was less than that, and the highest total in an hour is only ~12 inches.


Ararat is 5137m above sea level, we don't know the draught of the arc, but let's stay conservative and add another 10m. To reach this level in 40 days it must rain 535 cm/h - that's 210 inches/h in ancient units of measurement. :O:

Take the whole pile of countries which can in one way or another be called muslim or muslim run and you end up with Pakisatan Afghanistan Saudi Yemen and Iran which include death as the maximum penalty available.
Of note is the fact that 3 of those 5 have a habit of applying such laws to muslims who simply happen to be the wrong flavour for the rulers.

You forgot Mauritania, Sudan, UAE and the parts of Nigeria with sharia law...

The fact that most of these countries apply those laws towards all religions, doesn't change the fact that anti-homosexual laws are bs, worldwide - same with blasphemy laws.

[Penguin]

Jeez, I didn't know that Utah had a third-world economy or education system.

No comment on that :O:, but you're right, the demographics, education and wealth are a little different in Utah than in the countries which tater mentioned...

[Tribesman]

You forgot Mauritania, Sudan, UAE and the parts of Nigeria with sharia law...


You are mixing up two different "crimes", but as you have the gays one there then it does give an opening for a great example where Uganda right now as a "christian" nation in the 21st century is attempting new legislation which will change the current penalty of imprisonment for gays to one of death.

[Gerald]

In addition, the Constitution was amended so that the previous restriction to two terms for presidents was repealed, so that the current President Museveni to remain in office, a new dictator who wants it all...

[Tribesman]

Hold on Vendor, he is a born again christian so his previous terms in office don't count.

[Gerald]

Hold on Vendor, he is a born again christian so his previous terms in office don't count. Going one step ahead is never wrong, you know

[Gerald]

http://christiannation.org/

[tater]

Ararat is 5137m above sea level, we don't know the draught of the arc, but let's stay conservative and add another 10m. To reach this level in 40 days it must rain 535 cm/h - that's 210 inches/h in ancient units of measurement. :O:


I assumed that it didn't perch on top, but at 15k feet (I think that's where the loons put the pile of crap they say is the arc (probably a shepherd's hut).

My analogy was fine, though the show is actually in NYC. Still, when the mormon episode of South Park aired, there were no death threats. When the Muhammad episode aired (not even showing muhammad) there were death threats.

The point made that if this current show were about Islam, it never would have been allowed is spot on because they would fear violence. None will be forthcoming from the LDS crew, bank on it.

[Penguin]

You are mixing up two different "crimes", but as you have the gays one there then it does give an opening for a great example where Uganda right now as a "christian" nation in the 21st century is attempting new legislation which will change the current penalty of imprisonment for gays to one of death.

ay caramba, you're right, subjects change so fast on subsim.

This doesn't change the fact, that many comedians do have a self-imposed censorship when regarding a certain religion and people who make fun of Islam, from countries where these moronic laws don't exist, get death threats.

However there are certain cultures who are much more relaxed about this whole madness. I talked to a friend from former Yugoslavia why the Bosnians are not radicalized (a country with a moslem majority). After all they were the ones who got the most **** from all sides during the war, had mujaheddins from other countries fighting there and still have many crackpots who try to spread their radical believes.
His answer was: "Oh, the Bosnians like drinking too much!" :D

[tater]

Nice to see that you have to go to some sh*thole like Uganda to find a place that might execute gays. The bottom line is that such harsh treatment is SOP for sharia states.

I'm against all theocracies, so screw Uganda, too. But the fact remains that there are no majority Muslim countries that are not in constant danger of becoming repressive theocracies (obviously not counting all the ones that are already repressive theocracies).

The shining beacon of secularism in the Islamic world is Turkey. How's that working out? I'll ask my friend when he gets back since he's there right now (he has a Turkish surname, and his folks were born there). I guarantee he doesn't advertise his "lifestyle" while there to anyone in the family (his mom retired there, but she knows he's gay).

[Penguin]

I assumed that it didn't perch on top, but at 15k feet (I think that's where the loons put the pile of crap they say is the arc (probably a shepherd's hut).


but the word is that the whole world was covered with water ;) - if we assume that higher mountains were not part of the known world at this time, we have to calculate that the whole mountain Ararat was under water...


My analogy was fine, though the show is actually in NYC. Still, when the mormon episode of South Park aired, there were no death threats. When the Muhammad episode aired (not even showing muhammad) there were death threats.


What I try to wrap my head around, is that Sout Park aired an episode in 2001 which has shown Muhammed - no reactions from the lunatics...
We were already in a globalized, connected world at this time. Either the hysteria has grown or some radicals didn't put enough oil into the fire to get a reaction. (By radicals I mean the islamistic side - not the SP side)


But the fact remains that there are no majority Muslim countries that are not in constant danger of becoming repressive theocracies (obviously not counting all the ones that are already repressive theocracies).

Check out my last post: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showpost.php?p=1629597&postcount=30 - a little positive example


The shining beacon of secularism in the Islamic world is Turkey. How's that working out? I'll ask my friend when he gets back since he's there right now (he has a Turkish surname, and his folks were born there). I guarantee he doesn't advertise his "lifestyle" while there to anyone in the family (his mom retired there, but she knows he's gay).

If he is in Istanbul he certainly has little to fear on the street - other parts of the country outside the tourist resorts: not good. The question remains how much the hate against gays there is rooted in islam and how much is cultural

[Tribesman]

Nice to see that you have to go to some sh*thole like Uganda
Like you have to go to some sh*thole like Iran for your example.:up:
Whasssamatter is your generalisation falling apart yet again:yep:
Do you like the little detail that the African nut is on a branch of a US based sect:hmmm:
you want to watch out with that exporting of fundamentalism, someone might compare you to the crazy wahhibis

The bottom line is that such harsh treatment is SOP for sharia states.

If it was SOP there would be more than 5 countries:know:
Another one of your generalisations isn't it, you still havn't managed to get the simple fact that sharia has as many interpretations as there are clerics.
Face it, you can find 3rd world sh*tholes with crazy laws of all persuation, you can find developed countries that used to have the very same laws as those 3rd world sh*tholes.

@Penguin
This doesn't change the fact, that many comedians do have a self-imposed censorship when regarding a certain religion and people who make fun of Islam, from countries where these moronic laws don't exist, get death threats.

I know, look how much difficulty there was getting a US distributer for 4 Lions after it stormed the european showings, them damn liberal PC euro weenie yanks eh:rotfl2:

[tater]

Iran IS a developed country. They are working on atomic weapons, after all. That's pretty developed. Some european countries can't even make nuclear weapons. Pakistan? Also fairly developed for a Muslim country (it is hard to find muslim countries that have bootstrapped development, I'll agree there). In many areas of Pakistan, fundamentalist ideas if not strictly legal are no the less practices with impunity (the NW where AQ operates, for example). The Taliban were the creature of the pakis, too. Videos of them murdering women for reading, talking to men, etc are common enough to find, I'm sure they bumped off more than a few gays in their time.

Egypt apparently tortures gays.

It's illegal in most all islamic countries. Was it illegal in the US 50 years ago some places? Sure. Was it much acted upon? Nope. Is it any more? Nope. Neither is slavery.

From an islamic GLBT website:
More than 30 Islamic countries prohibit homosexuality by law. The punishments range from flogging to life in prison. In Mauretania, Bangladesh, Yemen, in parts of Nigeria and Sudan, in the United Arab Emirates, Saudi Arabia and Iran, gays even face the death penalty.

How many modern, western democracies have similar laws?

[Armistead]

Like you have to go to some sh*thole like Iran for your example.:up:
Whasssamatter is your generalisation falling apart yet again:yep:
Do you like the little detail that the African nut is on a branch of a US based sect:hmmm:
you want to watch out with that exporting of fundamentalism, someone might compare you to the crazy wahhibis


If it was SOP there would be more than 5 countries:know:
Another one of your generalisations isn't it, you still havn't managed to get the simple fact that sharia has as many interpretations as there are clerics.
Face it, you can find 3rd world sh*tholes with crazy laws of all persuation, you can find developed countries that used to have the very same laws as those 3rd world sh*tholes.

@Penguin

I know, look how much difficulty there was getting a US distributer for 4 Lions after it stormed the european showings, them damn liberal PC euro weenie yanks eh:rotfl2:

Yea, sharia has really worked well in the mideast... Can't wait until it takes over in the US and I can keep my wife in order or have her stoned in public.

[Gerald]

"How many modern, western democracies have similar laws?" I say none

[Gerald]

I'm pretty neutral to letting religions do their thing, as they are great community outreach programs and places for people to find the solace and comfort they require.

But the more flak the mormons can take, the happier I am :yeah:. My wife was excommunicated from the mormon church just because we shared a house. The council of elders (or whatever) called her a whore to her face.

So the mormons can just stick it.

A whole religion based on some tablets a crazy dude claimed he found in the woods, and only he could read? And then all that based on top of some crap a burning plant told some old guy? :shifty:

Sorry, no trolling intended here. Just my personal opinion based on personal experiences. When it comes to your personal experiences, which do you think would fit on the above subject, purely crass......

[Penguin]

@Penguin

I know, look how much difficulty there was getting a US distributer for 4 Lions after it stormed the european showings, them damn liberal PC euro weenie yanks eh:rotfl2:

:hmmm: not the best example, at least not for Germany...
The film hasn't even started here yet. I checked it out, it will start in a month, finally found a small distrubutor.
A german MP demanded that this movie should be forbidden because it could boost terror. :damn: Fun fact: the guy is in the conservative, bavarian party called CSU - yes the C stands for "Christian" :doh:

How was the reaction to the movie on the Isles?

"How many modern, western democracies have similar laws?" I say none

Jamaica...

[Gerald]

Hmmm ... it was really a strong Western country

[Tribesman]

Iran IS a developed country. They are working on atomic weapons, after all. That's pretty developed.
By that measure North Korea is a world leader in development terms, better inform the OECD to shift it up about a hundred places on their list.

It's illegal in most all islamic countries.
For your point to stand it would be required to be illegal with a punishment of death in all islamic countries, hey even a death penalty for it in most islamic countries would give you a partial credit.
For your other "point" to stand it would have to be illegal in all islamic countries wouldn't it, you would even get a bonus point if it was only islamic countries where it is illegal.
You fail at every stage, that is why your habit of generalisations are not very good.

How many modern, western democracies have similar laws?
Good point, I think part of Britain was the last place to get rid of flogging people as punishment, that would be way back at the end of the 20th century, funnily enough it was flogging people for the "crime" of being gay.
And of course western democracy has matured to the position where they have abolished the death penalty so such legal measures are really only carried out by third world holes nowadays.



Can't wait until it takes over in the US and I can keep my wife in order or have her stoned in public.
Quick hide under the bed they are taking over the world :rotfl2:


How was the reaction to the movie on the Isles?


well Penguin, it was lot better than over that evil blasphemy from Monty Python

[Growler]

... ancient units of measurement. :O:


Riiiight.


What's a cubit?

[Penguin]

Riiiight.


What's a cubit?

that's exactly 0.2476 mammoth steps or 0,79 saber-tooth-cat lengths :O:

[Ducimus]

Since my Fiancee comes from a mormon family, and i have a 98% chance of moving to Utah in the next few months, this thread peaks my interest. :O:

Now the tenets of the faith itself, IMO, is a crock of excrement. Metal plates? Lost tribe? etc etc. The whole story behind how the faith was founded is a bit slippery for me.

HOWEVER.....I have to give credit where its due. Mormon dominated areas are nice. People are usually nice and acutally talk to each other, things don't look run down and haggered, no graffitti, low crime rate, everyone speaks english, it feels like how living in the good ole USA is supposed to be. I could go on and on.

But yeah, sure they have some laws that are a PITA to deal with, but i gotta tell ya, when you spend a week in Utah, and then come back to california, you can tell the difference before you even cross the border, and the difference is for the worst. Its almost like crossing the border into a second world nation. In Utah, i never felt the need to watch my back, and i felt relaxed. I never feel that way in california.

So i gotta give them credit where its due. Based on my personal observations, i hope Utah remains under heavy mormon influence. I'll never join that (or any other) faith, but they do make the best neighbors. On top of that, unlike other christian denominations, they aren't shoving a crucifix in your face at every opportunity I detest that. (They like to pass offtheir stupid book, but thats nowhere near as offensive). So i like to give them credit for not paying homage to a Roman device for captial punishment that i've grown sick of having shoved in my face everywhere.

[tater]

Ducimus, I agree, mostly. My best friend's dad was an ex-mormon, but I got to spend a lot of time with his other relatives (had thanksgiving at his aunts house (awesome meal, as you might imagine)), went to a few functions, saw them again at his dad's funeral. Very nice people, all of them. My neighbor who died 2 summers ago was mormon and while I always liked the family, the funeral was where the shoving the cross in you face started...

Avoid Mormon funerals :) . Most is normal, but it at a certain point starts seeming like a sales pitch for a time share, and you can't leave. :damn:

[Ducimus]

Avoid Mormon funerals :) . Most is normal, but it at a certain point starts seeming like a sales pitch for a time share, and you can't leave. :damn:

Been to one already. My Fiancee's step mother kicked the bucket, so we went to Utah together. It was a whirlwind of hand shaking, and introductions. Considering how large her family is, i gave up on name memorizaton months ago. For the most part, folks left me alone. I think my fiancee and her sister had to "rescue" me from a conversation i didn't want to get into once or twice, but for the most part only problem i had was the number of people. Ever since i got out of the service, i get claustophobic around large numbers of people. There were so many at this funeral, shoved into this one little room, i damn near had a panic/anxiety attack. I had to keep my composure, excuse myself, go outside, and breath some fresh air for about 20 mins.

edit:
the funeral was where the shoving the cross in you face started..
You know, think i've only seen ONE cross in Utah, and it was some church that wasn't mormon. Which is something fairly rare in some areas. If you want to have fun with crosses though, in your minds eye, replace them with the shape of an electric chair. Then the cross becomes a real hoot to look at because it seems so damn ridiculous when you realize the cross and the electric chair served the same function as devices for capital punishment.

[tater]

Heheh. I only have an N of one, so maybe they all are not what I saw. My experience was the service itself. The head guy at the church (temple, whatever) started his sermon, and since there were many non-LDS people there, he did what was really just a sales pitch for their family-orientated way of life.

Other than that I've not had any negative experiences with LDS folks, and that was pretty minor.

[Torplexed]

If you want to have fun with crosses though, in your minds eye, replace them with the shape of an electric chair. Then the cross becomes a real hoot to look at because it seems so damn ridiculous when you realize the cross and the electric chair served the same function as devices for capital punishment.

Yes. I've done the exercise of trying to imagine an alternate world where people wear nooses around their neck in place of a crucifix, or worship at the foot of a guillotine as a symbol of their faith. I think Christianity should have stuck with the fish.

[Gerald]

http://i.imgur.com/XE0Pq.jpg

[Rilder]

http://i.imgur.com/XE0Pq.jpg

Of course us Pagans get ignored. :cry:

[UnderseaLcpl]

Of course us Pagans get ignored. :cry:

If I were a pagan I'd be rather glad of that. Whenever the Pagans draw attention Christians start emblazoning crosses on surcoats and eyeing their broadswords, and Muslims start planning nasty things.

[Platapus]

I spent a few years stationed in Utah and found members of the LDS church to be very nice and considerate people. Sure some wanted to convert you, but once they found out you were not interested, no problems.

I did find out that you can't pull over to the side of the street if you want privacy. I did that once to look at a map and within 5 minutes I had people stopping and asking if I needed help.

If my life path sent me back to Utah, I would be very happy. Beautiful state, nice people.

[Gerald]

I spent a few years stationed in Utah and found members of the LDS church to be very nice and considerate people. Sure some wanted to convert you, but once they found out you were not interested, no problems.

I did find out that you can't pull over to the side of the street if you want privacy. I did that once to look at a map and within 5 minutes I had people stopping and asking if I needed help.

If my life path sent me back to Utah, I would be very happy. Beautiful state, nice people. Then you could say that you can usefully take up residence there...

[Ducimus]

Mormon tenets of faith are really weird, and really out there in weirdness, but they are the nicest group of people i've ever met. I honestly, am excited to hopefully be moving there. It's all riding on my Fiancee's job prospects though. But were both on the same "Want to GTFO out of california" page. So i'm pretty sure we'll be moving there.

[Gerald]

Mormon tenets of faith are really weird, and really out there in weirdness, but they are the nicest group of people i've ever met. I honestly, am excited to hopefully be moving there. It's all riding on my Fiancee's job prospects though. But were both on the same "Want to GTFO out of california" page. So i'm pretty sure we'll be moving there. I wish good luck with the project and hope that your fiancee may have the job remaining or switch to something else, so you can find peace where you want to stay :up:

[Ducimus]

For her sanity, i hope she finds a job. She's graduating medical school in may with a Doctorate in Veterinary medicine. Aside from grants, loans and all that, she has way too many years invested in school to end up with a crap job now.

I on the other hand, well, i'll find something. Id better, or I'll have to surrender this card:
http://freeborder88.webs.com/ManCard.jpg
Along with my dignity, and sense of self worth, for allowing my wife to bring home all the cash and not contributing to the household income.

[Gerald]

Your fiancee will find a job was so sure of that, when the education she has to permit greater opportunities, and indeed in many cases, in principle, anywhere and the card, you do not use, it will be occasions :yep:

[Gerald]

If I were a pagan I'd be rather glad of that. Whenever the Pagans draw attention Christians start emblazoning crosses on surcoats and eyeing their broadswords, and Muslims start planning nasty things. We will hope that Muslims have a low profile now