Holocaust Museum Washington DC

[AVGWarhawk]

Yesterday at the request of my youngest daughter who has studied the Holocaust at her school, we paid a visit to the Holocaust Museum Washington DC. I was impressed with the presentation the museum created. It was very sobering and humbling. We came away with much more information on the Holocaust than we had known before the visit. If you get the opportunity to make a visit I highly recommend you do.

[August]

Thanks for the recommendation AVG. :up:

[Torvald Von Mansee]

That was literally the last museum my mother ever visited.

Question: is it really appropriate to have it in the United States, though? Germany, Israel, or Poland I could see, by the U.S.?

[Schroeder]

I believe there are many Jewish people in the states, so why not having a museum there as well? It's not like everybody from the states gets to Europe once in a while.

[Freiwillige]

They are building one in Phoenix, Arizona too.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Did the tour include information on the other genocides of the century? Was half of the museum dedicated to the 6 million non-Jews who were also killed in the concentration camps?

Yeah, I thought not. I've already been there, and I saw what they chose to memorialize. Holocaust museum my ass. If it were really a memorial dedicated to the idea of "never again" it would be a lot more comprehensive. It would include the genocide of the Armenians and the Slavs and the Ukrainians and the Rwandans and the Somalis and the Cambodians and the Christians and the Muslims and so on and so forth. But that isn't really its purpose. It's just some crap thrown up by people with enough political influence to commemorate their own suffering, but not that of anyone else.

Even worse, prominent members of the Jewish community have long spoken against the invasion of Iraq, a country in which at least 80,000 Kurds were systematically exterminated, by conservative estimates.

They can take their memorial and shove it up their ass as far as I'm concerned. It is clear that they don't give a s*** about other victims of genocide and are concerned only with themselves, at taxpayer expense. Screw them, and screw their BS memorial. I'll start remembering their suffering as soon as they start actively pursuing an anti-genocide agenda.

[MH]

Did the tour include information on the other genocides of the century? Was half of the museum dedicated to the 6 million non-Jews who were also killed in the concentration camps?

Yeah, I thought not. I've already been there, and I saw what they chose to memorialize. Holocaust museum my ass. If it were really a memorial dedicated to the idea of "never again" it would be a lot more comprehensive. It would include the genocide of the Armenians and the Slavs and the Ukrainians and the Rwandans and the Somalis and the Cambodians and the Christians and the Muslims and so on and so forth. But that isn't really its purpose. It's just some crap thrown up by people with enough political influence to commemorate their own suffering, but not that of anyone else.
.

While it may be true to some extent you should remember that that genocide was executed only on Jews for them being Jews.
Slavs and other eastern European peoples ended up in exterminations camps for resisting occupation.
Westerners enjoyed quite good life even as POWs

Even worse, prominent members of the Jewish community have long spoken against the invasion of Iraq, a country in which at least 80,000 Kurds were systematically exterminated, by conservative estimates.
.
Kurds and Israelis have closer ties than you might know.


They can take their memorial and shove it up their ass as far as I'm concerned. It is clear that they don't give a s*** about other victims of genocide and are concerned only with themselves, at taxpayer expense. Screw them, and screw their BS memorial. I'll start remembering their suffering as soon as they start actively pursuing an anti-genocide agenda.
wow Really?

[AVGWarhawk]

Question: is it really appropriate to have it in the United States, though? Germany, Israel, or Poland I could see, by the U.S.?


Ask the Jewish lady who survived the camps as a little girl. She took our tickets to enter the exhibit. There are plenty of folks I had known as a kid that survived the camps. I remember seeing the tattoos on the arms adminsiterd at the camps. Many US service men and women died in the ETO. This gives some good reason why a family member died in the war. It was not in vain.


Did the tour include information on the other genocides of the century? Was half of the museum dedicated to the 6 million non-Jews who were also killed in the concentration camps?


Glad you asked. The exhibit included ALL involved. Mentally/physically handicapped, Catholics, homosexual, black, diseased. The end exhibit concerned Rwanda and the genocide occuring there right now. So yes, the museum was all encompassing.


Yeah, I thought not. I've already been there, and I saw what they chose to memorialize. Holocaust museum my ass. If it were really a memorial dedicated to the idea of "never again" it would be a lot more comprehensive. It would include the genocide of the Armenians and the Slavs and the Ukrainians and the Rwandans and the Somalis and the Cambodians and the Christians and the Muslims and so on and so forth. But that isn't really its purpose. It's just some crap thrown up by people with enough political influence to commemorate their own suffering, but not that of anyone else.


Think again. Go to the website and look.



They can take their memorial and shove it up their ass as far as I'm concerned. It is clear that they don't give a s*** about other victims of genocide and are concerned only with themselves, at taxpayer expense. Screw them, and screw their BS memorial. I'll start remembering their suffering as soon as they start actively pursuing an anti-genocide agenda.


You are a bit hasty in your assumption. Visit the museum and the site.


http://www.ushmm.org/



Genocide Emergency – Darfur, Sudan: Who Will Survive Today?
A display of photographs and extensive resource materials documenting the 2003-2005 genocide in the Darfur region of Sudan.

[Krauter]

Question: is it really appropriate to have it in the United States, though? Germany, Israel, or Poland I could see, by the U.S.?

As far as I'm concerned, yes it should be in the U.S, Canada, Germany, France, UK, Poland, Russia, etc, etc

(If you don't remember, the U.S turned away a boat full of Jews coming from Germany, and sadly so did Canada.. North America needs to remember they were part of the atrocities that played out in Europe.)

I can see the aim of memorializing the people that died. But the idea is bigger than that. As the worst modern genocide, (to my knowledge... someone correct me if I'm wrong) the aim of these museums is to make people remember so it doesn't happen again.

You see these people in the news and on the world stage saying "Nope that didn't happen, they're lying. They're Jews they just want attention".

Say that to the survivors and their families.

As a highschooler, it was a mandatory thing that we had to make the trip over the border to Detroit to the Holocaust museum to see the exhibit and hear from a survivor. The man we saw was 8 years old when he was taken from his home in Poland. He is the only survivor of a family home comprising himself, is father, mother, grandmother, two sisters and twin brothers (of whose fate he hopes ended quickly). The camp he ended up in? Auschwitz initially, when he was transferred to Treblinka and worked as a sondercommando. Until the camp was moved again and he ended up in Sachsenhausen (sp).

He ended his sermon saying that he cannot sleep in the same room as his wife, because upon waking up, he remembers the guards beating him to get out of bed. Saying he remembers daily atrocities that would turn your stomach. This man died two years ago now, may he rest in peace.

The whole point of these museums is to keep the awareness in the publics mind. Not on the Jewish horrors, but on genocide as a whole.

Comments such as

They can take their memorial and shove it up their ass as far as I'm concerned. It is clear that they don't give a s*** about other victims of genocide and are concerned only with themselves, at taxpayer expense. Screw them, and screw their BS memorial. I'll start remembering their suffering as soon as they start actively pursuing an anti-genocide agenda.

just make me scratch my head sometimes and wonder what the hell is wrong with us.

[AVGWarhawk]

Directly from the site:



The Committee on Conscience (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/) (CoC) of the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum has declared a Genocide Emergency for the Darfur region of Sudan (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/atrisk/region/darfur-sudan/), Africa’s largest country. The Emergency was declared because acts of genocide or related crimes against humanity are occurring or immediately threatened in Sudan. Tens of thousands of civilians have been murdered and thousands of women raped. Over 1.5 million have been driven from their homes, their villages torched and their property stolen by the Sudanese government and allied militias. The death toll exceeds 100,000 and may be more than 400,000. And the crisis continues—the lives of hundreds of thousands more hang in the balance today.
The victims are targeted because of their ethnic and perceived racial identity.
Explore Museum resources and learn more about the emergency taking place right now in Sudan.
Display


VIEW (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/analysis/details/2004-07-06/commentary/) photographs from refugee camps where Darfurians have fled and see artifacts from homes destroyed in the violence.
HEAR (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/analysis/details/2004-07-06/commentary/) the commentary of Jerry Fowler, a Museum official who visited these camps in May 2004.
WATCH recent news stories for the latest updates from Darfur.
WITNESS the harsh conditions refugees face and stories of what they have experienced.
LEARN what you can do to help prevent genocide today.
Computer Resources


What is genocide? What is the history behind today’s crisis in Sudan?
What is the world doing about Sudan and other places, such as Chechnya in Russia?
FIND the answers to these questions and more.
NAVIGATE the CoC’s web pages.
READ the Genocide Watch issued for Sudan’s Southern regions and the Nuba Mountains (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/atrisk/region/southern-sudan/).
SIGN UP for the CoC’s electronic newsletter (http://web.ushmm.org/site/lookup.asp?c=fuIXLbMSJxE&b=2017795).
VIEW photo galleries (http://www.ushmm.org/genocide/take_action/gallery) with images from Kosovo, Rwanda, and other locations.
The mandate of the Committee on Conscience at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum is to alert the national conscience, influence policy makers, and stimulate worldwide action to confront and work to halt acts of genocide or related crimes against humanity.

[UnderseaLcpl]

While it may be true to some extent you should remember that that genocide was executed only on Jews for them being Jews.
As if any of the other concentration camp victims were executed for anything other than being Slavs or homosexuals or political opponents.

Slavs and other eastern European peoples ended up in exterminations camps for resisting occupation.
I know. That's part of my argument.

Westerners enjoyed quite good life even as POWs


And? How does this, in any way, prove the point you are trying to make?

Kurds and Israelis have closer ties than you might know.
I didn't say anything about Israelis. I only said that prominent Jewish figures had ignored other genocides.

wow Really?


Yeah, really.

Glad you asked. The exhibit included ALL involved. Mentally/physically handicapped, Catholics, homosexual, black, diseased. The end exhibit concerned Rwanda and the genocide occuring there right now. So yes, the museum was all encompassing.


Was it? I'll ask again, was half of the museum devoted to the other 6 million victims of the holocaust? I saw the token exhibits they placed to placed in "honor" of the other victims of the holocaust. I was not impressed.

I am more unimpressed by the actions of the Jewish community in the war against Islamic extremism, then and now. If there were any justice in this world there would be an army of Jews vehemently defending intervention in countries where a genocide has taken place, but there never has been.

[MH]

I am more unimpressed by the actions of the Jewish community in the war against Islamic extremism, .
I'm not impressed some American Jews myself.
Maybe its because American Jews are AMERICAN-diverse peaple.

Jews are the enemies of Islam.
Jews hate Muslims.
Jews genocide Palestinians.
Jews don't fight radical Islam.......??????????
What else?

Ahh Jews want to take over the world and create global government.

A few days ago i heard from a Palestinian guy that Monica Levinsky was an Israeli spy-is it true?

[AVGWarhawk]

The museum has displays of various religions, races, abnormalities...basically anyone and everyone that was killed in the Holocaust. There was not any 'token' exhibits. How much do you need other than a picture of a Catholic priest waiting on his turn for execution? Do we need his Bible and perhaps a pew from his church. What do we need for an exhibit of the mentally/physcially handicapped that were euthanized or gassed? The exhibit on homosexuals and gypsie...how much do you need? The museum encompassed all involved. It would seem you simply refuse to see that.


I'm unimpressed with every community. They all suck as a whole. So whats the difference?

[UnderseaLcpl]

The museum has displays of various religions, races, abnormalities...basically anyone and everyone that was killed in the Holocaust. There was not any 'token' exhibits. How much do you need other than a picture of a Catholic priest waiting on his turn for execution? Do we need his Bible and perhaps a pew from his church. What do we need for an exhibit of the mentally/physcially handicapped that were euthanized or gassed? The exhibit on homosexuals and gypsie...how much do you need? The museum encompassed all involved. It would seem you simply refuse to see that.

Then either I am missing something or you are. For the time being, I'll cede the point, though remain dissatisfied with the measures the Jewish community has taken to exhibit the holocaust while doing comparatively little to prevent its re-occurence.


I'm unimpressed with every community. They all suck as a whole. So whats the difference?

Idealism. Consistency of idealism. Proper idealism. The hope for something better. I'm not going to delve into existential debate here, but I'd be happy to discuss it via PM.

[AVGWarhawk]

What would like the Jewish community to do? What Jewish community in what country to be exact?

[MH]

Idealism. Consistency of idealism. Proper idealism. The hope for something better......
I was hoping it was somthing like that:salute:
Thing is reality don't always work this way....

[AVGWarhawk]

I was hoping it was somthing like that:salute:
Thing is reality don't always work this way....


Agreed.

[tater]

Genocide is different than "democide" (a term coined by Rummel). Genocide requires that people are exterminated for an indelible trait. Gypsies would be genocide. Jews are genocide because they were treated as a race, not as people who voluntarily held a set of beliefs. This distinction dates to the Spanish Inquisition. The Catholics in the camps were not there for being Catholic (Hitler, after all, was a Catholic as the church didn't see fit to boot him out, because he didn't do anything bad like some Nazis who WERE kicked out of the church (the crime being a marriage to a non-Catholic, which is clearly worse than mass murder :roll: )).

Political enemies being exterminated is also not genocide.

The Soviets murdered more than the Nazis did (as did the PRC), but again, not strictly genocide (the communist hallmark was always the really random nature of their mass murder).

A focus on the jewish aspect is unremarkable in the US. There are far more jews here in the US than Gypsies, for example. Catholics were not persecuted by Nazi germany, in fact many of the persecutors were themselves Catholic... Nor is there a large block of former Nazi political prisoners around. So when seeking the museum, and you start hitting people up for money, who will you ask? From a pure marketing strategy to focus the fundraising on the primary group exterminated for an indelible trait makes plenty of sense.

Anyway, to be fair, the point was to focus on genocide, not merely mass murder (ie: others who were exterminated in the camps). If the focus was merely "death by government" then I'd expect the vast majority of the museum to be directed towards the communists, and their vast depredations.

[AVGWarhawk]

I do not believe the museum was to mainly focus on genocide per say. It is the Holocaust Museum. The holocaust mostly associated with the Jewish community even though it involved others. The focus IMO would be towards the Jews. The Jewish people were at the bottom of the list as human beings. To the Nazi, below every other race, creed, religion, sexual orientation handicapped sat the Jewish people. This bit of information came from the my museum visit. It was posted on the wall next to the tools used to measure skulls (outside calipers), a box of glass eyes all in different colors. Tufts of hair in different colors and textures. The poster of different peoples around the world. Pictures of mentally handicapped. Basically anyone that lacks some type of Nordic background. This was an exercise in creating the master race. But below all of that was the Jewish who were the root of Germany's problems(according to the Nazi). This brings us to the question the Nazi had, what to do with the Jewish people? The 'Final Solution.' The final solution was to exterminate the Jews. The others involved, gypsie, homosexual, handicapped and other races fell into the master race idea. For lack of a better phrase, a by product of Hitler's vision of Germany. As we see the killing went on to include those that opposed the Nazi. This was all explained in as much detail as required to show that the Holocaust although focused mainly on the Jewish people, it also involved many others. However, the others were not part of the 'Final Solution'. This was soley reserved for the Jewish community.